Which matters more?

[poodoo]

Reading through our threads since the loss to South Carolina, I have read far more than the usualamount of negative comments about the coaching staff. Naturally, we areall very disappointed and frustrated,especially with the defense's ranking 119 out of 119 inyardage given up AND the non-competitive performance in the 49-0 loss at LSU. That disappointment and frustration is understandable, and I, too, feel those emotions. I imagine all of us who love this UK football program feel that way after the past two losses.

HOWEVER, as I have been reading, Ihave wondered what matters more to us UK fans right now, as some of the discussion heremakes itAPPEAR that we are more obsessed with getting rid of Coach Brooks, orCoach Archer,or both,than being obsessed about ourTEAM WINNING and making it to a bowl game. Now I don't think weREALLY feel that way. That's why I'm asking the question.:DSometimes it helps us to think about what REALLY MATTERS to us, or what matters more.:)

What matters more? Is it thata UK football coachbe fired,OR is itthat weBEAT MSU and getat least two more wins and abowl berth? The choices are BEAT MSU or FIRE A COACH. I know it's not fair, but this retired teacher is making out the "test," which no one is beingFORCED to take and one which has no right or wrong answers. :ggrin:Those two short answers are the only choices allowed (andplease be kind and do not elaborate, as there are noconditions allowed).Anyone who follows the rules PASSES THE TEST :D, although yes, your answer will naturally be seen by anyone who reads our site.

I think anyone who reads here knows where my heart lies. :)

My answer is as follows:

BEAT MSU!!! :)

P.S. This is in fun. If the "test" is upsetting to anyone, please don't participate. :)

[gerntz]

poodoo, I think the issue is that these folks see Brooks & Archer in the way of/hindering beating MSU & other teams, i.e., get better replacements & we have more chance. And it is totally frustrating to them that they can't accomplish that positive (in their minds). So they vent.

[JDHoss]

It's not just about the LSU game...it's about the 2003 mistake filled debut against UaVel....it's about the 2003 games that got away (Florida & Arkansas) from us that took us out of bowl contention, and the embarrassing loss to Vandy....it's about staying with the inept offense of Hudson for nearly 2 whole seasons while bristling that there would be no changes....it's about getting outplayed and outhustled by Ohio at home....it's about needing a frantic rally to get by D1AA Idaho St. at home....it's about getting flattened by a bad IU team on the road....it's about playing the worst UT team in 20+ years and still stinking up the place....it's about talking up how much more athletic the team (especially the defense) is only to seeit's about watching a very beatable Carolina team walk away with a W because we couldn't get the points we needed with great field position when we actually got a defensive stop....it's about watching Carolina run the football down our throats to kill the clock when everyone in the stadium knew they weren't about to pass...it's about watching the poorest tackling, most inept defense I've seen since watching UK football get marched up and down the field on by everyone but a mediocre D1AA team.....and yes, it's about going to LSU...I didn't expect a W, or didn't really expect to make it a tight game.....I didn't, however expect us to roll over like a possum from the opening kick and never get up.....at least in the UaVel game we got off the matt and took a few swings at them....will 6 wins keep this staff around? Who knows? There are 5 games left, and 4 have to be considered winnable what with UGA struggling, and us catching them between Florida & Auburn. If we had a sliver of defense I'd have high hopes for that game. What I want to see are some changes in these last 5. I want to see a defense who plays every down as if the ball carrier is running down the street with everything they own.....I want to see an offense that doesn't go into a shell in crunch time (Carolina game). Right now this staff has lost a good deal of the fan base, but they could get quiet a few back with a big finish....question is can they?

[ridgecat78]

BEAT MSU!

[kyjohn]

I want nothing more than the football Cats being very successful ,having a winning season,and going to a bowl game.I want the coaches to be successful more than anything.But,if this coaching staff cannot get it done,then I want to see them gone.

We have seen 3 and a half years of some of the most inept football since Ray and Curry,and if things don't improve for the rest of the season,then clean house,and get someone in here who can get it done.

Nobody can be happy with the way things have been going,and the excuses that have been made.:X

[Cant Get Right]

I'd love to see the Cats win 6 and go to a bowl. But even if they won the bowl game, I think it is time forthe home run.It's time for Mitch toseal his legacy by hiring a young, up and coming coordinator who can motivate, recruit, and excite the fan base. (Something like Gene Chizik, Bo Pelini, or Jimbo Fisher.) I have supported Brooks and company from the get go, but I don't want to see us miss out on a fine young coach by waiting another year. Get the bat off your shoulder,Mitch and swing for the fences.

[bleedbluelady]

Beat MSU.

[RV]

Beat Mississippi State - bad.

[Sam K.]

Beat MSU.

[Mountain Cat]

Give Brooks awatch....and politely show him the door.

Start the search for a real coach now and show these players that UK supports them and will do what it takes to bring in a coaching staff that can get it done.

Go Cats!

[ukbob]

poodoo, I think you are overstating the obvious. Of course wins matter more. And as JD says...it is not just about LSU. It is about the seemingly common trait this coach has about not being prepared or being able to motivate/coach up players. It has happened every year since his arrival and I just don't think it will stop.

You know I don't have a great deal of faith in Brooks and company, but I would like nothing more than to beat the snot out of MSU. It would even be sweeter to get to a Bowl. I just have so many doubts this staff can handle the task. But I would have no issue whatsoever if they proved me wrong.

If that is a negative approach, then I guess I'll just eat that label on this one. The proof is in the pudding and I need more proof that this guy is the one to get it done.

Now saying that.....

BEAT MSU!!!

[TrueblueCATfan]

BEAT MSU

[SBCatMan]

Put me in the beat MSU camp as well.

By the way, JD, that was a nice summary of the issues that have plagued the Brooks years at UK.

****************

I think Mitch and UK are faced with a real dilemma. First, make no doubt about it. I want to win EVERY game. But, even if we do, as others have noted, that may not be enough to convince many that this staff deserves to stay on. Winning three more and qualifying for a bowl, given the things that have happened, probably isNO LONGERenough to save this staff. One of the subtle little things going on in the background that we have not talked about much is in-state recruiting. We are NOT, as Mitch promised, "owning this state."

Brooks deserves much credit for many things. He has cleaned up the program. He has improved recruiting substantially. He has started to get things in order and headed in the right direction. But, even so, I, at least, am not confident or optimistic that he can move this program into even the middle of the pack of the SEC, let alone into championship contention. And, I think that is probably a fairly commonly held perception. I think Mitchmust know it, too.

The opnion expressed before is that the ideal scenario would be this: We win enough games to qualify for a bowl aand Brooks says, "There. I told you I could do it, and I did. You doubted me, and I proved we could win. Now, it is time for me to step aside and spend more time with my family or move into an administrative position (where I think he could do quite well.)" But, chances of that happening are slim to none, I suppose.

So, the problem facing Mitch is that he probably wants to make a change, but he needs to be able to find a graceful way to do so, assuming that we do win.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

:cool:BEAT MSU!!!!!!!!!

[Fitz]

POODOO, you're beautiful !

Lets beat msu, uga, uv, ulm, ut.

PLEASE lets root for our TEAM and stop DISSN EM !!!

GO BLUE !!!

[CATHYnKY]

Fitz wrote: POODOO, you're beautiful !

Lets beat msu, uga, uv, ulm, ut.

PLEASE lets root for our TEAM and stop DISSN EM !!!

GO BLUE !!!

BEAT ANYONE NOT IN THE BLUE & WHITE UK UNIFORM!!!

[delkfor3]

We arn't going to win regularly until Brooks is gone! He's had nearly four years and he hasn't gotten the job done, now it's time to go in another direction. RB's tenure has been a misrable failure.

[poodoo]

Some of you have passed the "test." :ggrin:

I laughed when I read some of the responses, becausethe point of the testwas NOT (even remotely) about how this coaching staff has performed or whether or notthis coaching staff should be retained. We have plenty of threads to discuss that issue.

This "test," on the other hand,had only one question. The question is which matters more to you RIGHT NOW--whether or notCoach Brooks is fired OR whether or notwe beat MSU, nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, IF we lose to MSU, those who are more concerned that Coach Brooks be fired will surely get their wish. (In other words, IF we lose that game, the coaching situation willquite likely take care of itself, and I'm sure Mitch Barnhart has a list available, just in case.) On the other hand, those who areMORE concerned that we beat MSU and the players' get their dream fulfilled THIS SEASON will be one step closer to getting our wish of a bowl appearance this season.

Some seem tohave interpretedthe "test" as a question of support or lack of support for Coach Brooks himself, but that is definitely NOT the question. Further, with the current performance of Coach Archer's defense, that is, even more so, NOT the question. :)The question is merely which really matters more to you between the two choices.:)

Also, a"Fire Coach Brooks" answer obviously passes the "test." The meaning of that answer, though, is that you, as a fan, WANT to lose to MSU (and, sure, there would be reasons to back that up, but they are not allowedby the rules of the test, which allows no elaboration to one's answers:ggrin: ).On this test, you cannot "have your cake and eat it, too." It's one or the other (and no one is forced to participate, of course, and no one has been individually questioned).

That's the "catch," but that was the point of the "test." I reallybelieve ALL of us want these UK football players to WIN THE GAMEnext Saturday. I actually thought of the "test" when I was responding to someone whom I respect a lot, and I so realized his love for the UK football program (although he has most obviously given up on Coach Brooks, and the performance against LSU understandably contributed to that). It hit me that I don't think he wants us to LOSE against MSU, regardless of how much the discussion has been to get rid of Coach Brooks. As I said, I fully understand the disappointment and frustration (and many of the arguments that have been made here). Yet, the point was merely to make a choice. Another poster, Mountain Cat, remembers that I reluctantly obliged him by answering his question honestly. That's all I'm asking here.

So the main reason behind the test was for all of us tobe remindedthat we want the SAME thing, WINS for this UK football program we love (and to balance out all the displeasure expressedaboutCoach Brooks and his staff, while mostexpressingthat displeasuresurely want to beat MSU andbarely mentionthat desire, if at all).It was ALSOfor players who come here tovisitto be able to see a lot of BEAT MSU posts and that we have NOT given up on a season that still has five more games.At the same timeany of us can have given up on this staff and think that it is a time for a change (for next season,that is)and STILL answer "BEAT MSU" and pass the "test." :DA simple BEAT MSUanswer does NOT mean that you remotely support this coaching staff.

This long post was merely an explanation of the "test" itself, not an elaboration of my answer, and I hope the purpose of the thread is now clearer. Also, I am purposely approaching this subject mostly humorously, for obviously nothing is gained or lost by passing or failing my "test." :DMy real students loved 'tests" with no right or wrong answer, one that they could pass by simplyusing the correct format fortheir expressions.That's all this "test" is, folks. :)

My answer: BEAT MSU!!!

[GoBgBlu37]

BEAT MSU LIKE A RED HEADED STEP CHILD!!!

[poodoo]

gerntz wrote: poodoo, I think the issue is that these folks see Brooks & Archer in the way of/hindering beating MSU & other teams, i.e., get better replacements & we have more chance. And it is totally frustrating to them that they can't accomplish that positive (in their minds). So they vent.


I absolutely understand that, gerntz. That is certainly the issue. This thread is IN NOWAY meant to be at all critical of folks' discussions of replacements and having a better chance of beating teams with another coach.Too, the question was NOT meant to be about firing Coach Brooks(or Coach Archer)NOW, but only at the season's end (although I did not make that clear)Mitch Barnhart is not going to make any move now, period (and absolutely not before the MSU game while we still have an EXCELLENT chance of getting to a bowl game and even beating Georgia, or to a lesser degree, UT.

Hopefully the post I had just made before this onemakes that clearer. :)Also, in that thread I made it clear Too, while I myselftry to be positive,again, Icertainly understand both the frustration ANDmany of the arguments. What is great about this site is that I do not think that there are ANY fans who "hate" Coach Brooks. Thus, I suspect that most here want MORE for the UK football team to beat MSU. Remember, though,that a FireA Coach answerpasses the "test." :)

[jpay]

Pound on them Bulldogs.....

[SBCatMan]

I cannot ever imagine a situtation under which I would want UK to lose. I suppose that in today's mixed up environment, there might be some convoluted circumstances under which we would actually gain something by losing, but I cannot envision what that might be.

Therefore, let me make my answer clear and unmsitakeable -- I WANT UK TO WIN.

[bleedbluelady]

SBCatMan wrote: One of the subtle little things going on in the background that we have not talked about much is in-state recruiting. We are NOT, as Mitch promised, "owning this state."




One thing this staff is doing is bringingbus loads of football players from various Kentucky middle schools to each home game. Coach Smith is the one spearheading this. While this is not an immediate fix to in-state recruiting, it is a smart move, IMHO. By the time most kidsreach high school they have decided what college is his/her favorite.

I'm NOT stating this as a reason Brooks or this staff should be retained. I'm just sharing some information.

poodoo, please don't fail me for this post. ;)

[ukbob]

Dang poodoo, I didn't know this was a test. Didn't I tell you before how bad I was in school? :D

Can I get a do-over?

[JDHoss]

I forgot to add, I want to beat State next week, UGA, the week after....etc....

[BigblueDrew]

BEAT MSU!!!!!!

[poodoo]

JDHoss wrote: I forgot to add, I want to beat State next week, UGA, the week after....etc....

Absolutely, and again, that was the point of the "test." :)

As I responded on another thread, I don't think we have any "Brooks Haters" on this site (regardless of doubts about his coaching ability),and that is a very good thing. Yet, it had struck me that we were so involved in discussing the disappointing defense, the disappointing performance at LSU, replacements for Coach Brooks, etc., that what really matters the MOST to us was barely being discussed at all.

Along with a correct BEAT MSU answer (and FIRE A COACH is equally correct! :)), ukbob mentioned that I was "overstating the obvious,"for everyone wants us to win. While I almost always agree with ukbob, I disagree on that. :)Oh, yes, I agree that I think we do all want the wins and a bowl appearance more,BUT that wouldNOT be "obvious" to any players visitingour site recently.:)

So, yes, I wantedour desiresto be OBVIOUS. I really didn't think anyone herewouldchoose FIRE A COACH (althoughit would, again, pass the test). I wanted everyone to think about what he or sheREALLY wants,AND I wanted players to see BEAT MSU from WCN member after WCN member (preferably without the discussions of the bad stuff about them and their coaches on many other threads--thus, the "no elaboration" comment :D).

Most of all, the season is NOT over. I still BELIEVE that theseplayers(andcoaches) CAN get us to that bowl game we so want. That absolutely matters the most to me. I want that with all my heart.That was the reason for the "test." :)

By the way, no fears, folks, I'm not really grading any responses :ggrin:(and, thank goodness, I don't have to do that grading anymore). You all are the greatest!

Now, how about some more BEAT MSU's!!!:D

[poodoo]

Mountain Cat wrote: Give Brooks awatch....and politely show him the door.

Start the search for a real coach now and show these players that UK supports them and will do what it takes to bring in a coaching staff that can get it done.

Go Cats!


Mountain Cat, I'm assuming this means that FIRE A COACH is your answer. I just want to be sure. While I'm not "grading" the response, of course, :DI am curious if you are really saying that firing Coach Brooks matters more to you than our beating MSU next Saturday.

Yourecently asked me, by name,to answer a question honestly for you, and I did just that, reluctantly, for it was one that had seemed to me irrelevant and I did not really have any strong feelings about it. I am now asking you, for I'm not positive what your response here means.

If you want Coach Brooks fired, you know that the cause would be greatly helped by our losing to MSU. So are you saying that you want the Cats to lose, or does our guys' winning the game mean more to you (as I would have thought it would, for I would have felt that you still would have been cheering for the Cats, honestly!)? I would not ask you directly hereEXCEPT for the fact that you had directly asked me a question earlier.Also, remember that I came back here, to be sure that I had not been dodging your question,and gave you a definitive NO answer (although that answer of mine was then "shot down." :ggrin:)

FIRE A COACH or BEAT MSU? Please be so kind to answer.Thanks.

[crice561]

Beat the Dog's. Both of them, that way we can go to Tampa. If this team is 7-5, we will get picked by the Outback bowl because of our fan following. I remember the last one, it was a sea of wildcat blue there.

Sorry to get off the subject a bit.

[DaytonKat]

poodoo wrote: ...
HOWEVER, as I have been reading, Ihave wondered what matters more to us UK fans right now, as some of the discussion heremakes itAPPEAR that we are more obsessed with getting rid of Coach Brooks, orCoach Archer,or both,than being obsessed about ourTEAM WINNING and making it to a bowl game. Now I don't think weREALLY feel that way. That's why I'm asking the question.:DSometimes it helps us to think about what REALLY MATTERS to us, or what matters more.:)...



While I understand the test, lol...it's the above sidebar to the test that makes me think the most. I've never made a "Fire Brooks" or "Fire Archer" post, and while I typically find such posts a little over-the-top when there are still plenty of games to be played, I just never thought that those fans appeared to care more about getting rid of a coach than the team winning. Heck, they may be so obsessed with winning that theyare blind tothe potential counter-productiveness of calling for a coach's head halfway into the season.

While I can't speak for those making "Fire Brooks" and/or "Fire Archer" posts/comments, I've often surmised that they believe that in the long-term that is what's best for the program---that such a move would indeed result in the team winning and going to a bowl.

Now....BEAT MSU!

[johnkyblue]

I've heard the "I hope they lose so they will fire Brooks" too many times. I despise those people.

[Blue4ever]

poodoo wrote: Reading through our threads since the loss to South Carolina, I have read far more than the usualamount of negative comments about the coaching staff. Naturally, we areall very disappointed and frustrated,especially with the defense's ranking 119 out of 119 inyardage given up AND the non-competitive performance in the 49-0 loss at LSU. That disappointment and frustration is understandable, and I, too, feel those emotions. I imagine all of us who love this UK football program feel that way after the past two losses.

HOWEVER, as I have been reading, Ihave wondered what matters more to us UK fans right now, as some of the discussion heremakes itAPPEAR that we are more obsessed with getting rid of Coach Brooks, orCoach Archer,or both,than being obsessed about ourTEAM WINNING and making it to a bowl game. Now I don't think weREALLY feel that way. That's why I'm asking the question.:DSometimes it helps us to think about what REALLY MATTERS to us, or what matters more.:)

What matters more? Is it thata UK football coachbe fired,OR is itthat weBEAT MSU and getat least two more wins and abowl berth? The choices are BEAT MSU or FIRE A COACH. I know it's not fair, but this retired teacher is making out the "test," which no one is beingFORCED to take and one which has no right or wrong answers. :ggrin:Those two short answers are the only choices allowed (andplease be kind and do not elaborate, as there are noconditions allowed).Anyone who follows the rules PASSES THE TEST :D, although yes, your answer will naturally be seen by anyone who reads our site.

I think anyone who reads here knows where my heart lies. :)

My answer is as follows:

BEAT MSU!!! :)

P.S. This is in fun. If the "test" is upsetting to anyone, please don't participate. :)


The Brooks/Barnhart Bashers want him gone even if that means losses. So every loss is a bonus to them.

I'm kind of in the middle.I'm not a Brookshater, and I doubt he'sthe savior,but for the players and fans (most fans) I want to see a successful season (by UK standards) 6-6 or 7-5 and a bowl. Having said thatI just don't know how Barnhartcan give Brooks at age 65 a 4 or 5 year extension? Because you can't recruit effective with less.

So to answer your question I'm more concerned with winning thanBrooks' status.:shock:

[poodoo]

While I can't speak for those making "Fire Brooks" and/or "Fire Archer" posts/comments, I've often surmised that they believe that in the long-term that is what's best for the program---that such a move would indeed result in the team winning and going to a bowl.

Now....BEAT MSU! QUOTE by DaytonKat

_______

DaytonKat, FWIW, I totally agree with you. In fact,I have tried to make that obvious in some of my posts in this thread. I do not think that any posts of that nature are remotely abouthatredfor Coach Brooks or Coach Archer, but the desire to have a winning football program here, a desire I strongly share.

Yet,my point is that no firingsare going to occur at this time. Too, any firings at the end of the season have nothing to do withTHIS TEAM NOW. :)I want a bowl THIS YEAR for THESE PLAYERS, and I want them (and some do read on our site) to see that we have NOT GIVEN UP and that what we want MOST is for them to BEAT MSU and get that bowl game they desire.

That's all. I think reading our site could give another impression, one that the focus is already on the FUTURE of the program and not on this team in the PRESENT, which still has such a good chance of reaching its goal (although those thinking Coach Archerdismissed at this moment could well mean for us still to get to a bowl game this season, something many of us think would tear the team apart and have just the opposite result). I hope that makes the "test" clearer. :)The choice is merely which means more NOW--that Brooks, Archer, or whoever be fired, OR that we BEAT MSU! :)

Too, personally, I cannot understand a fan's making the choice forhis team'splayers to lose a game, but it if anyone makes that choice on WCN, Ido believe he is doing so only for the reason you mention in your post. It is not my right to judge or criticize anyone for making that choice, either. In other words, such an answer would not be "shot down.":)A FIRE A COACH answer, again, passes the"test," although it means that one does not really care whether or not we beat MSU, in the "short term." :D

By the way, I happen to be one who thinks we cannot guarantee, or even accurately predict, the UK football program's future with ANY COACH. That is another reason I focus more on the short term, merely supporting the players and hoping they win every game (again, something that Dicky Lyons, Jr. said that the players now needed to focus on, going undefeated the rest of the season, something that the playersthink can occur--with THIS coaching staff, by the way).

Regardless, yes, I'm hopingfans herethink about the choice and decide that BEAT MSU is the answer that they want our players to see. :)BEAT MSU!!!BEAT MSU!!! BEAT MSU!!!

[poodoo]

So to answer your question I'm more concerned with winning thanBrooks' status.:shock:QUOTE by Blue4ever

_______

That is definitely another BEAT MSU! :)

Too, this "test" or thread is nothing about faith(or lack offaith) in Coach Brooks. :)In fact, your answer is exactly my feelings, FWIW. We are in the middle of a season in which we can potentially reach a bowl game. Like you, I am MORE concerned with WINNING than I am concerned about Brooks' status. That's it "in a nutshell," Blue4ever. :cool:

BEAT MSU!!!