Football - Marking the Out of Bounds Spot

[Wildcat Larry]

I'm curious if anyone knows the rule in marking the ball when a ball carrier goes out of bounds but doesn't step on the out of bounds line. What I'm trying to describe is this: a ball carrier is about two feet or so inbounds and leaps over a defender going out of bounds and landing nearly 5 feet forward when his foot hits out of bounds.

Is the ball marked:

(a) where the ball was when his foot was last in bounds.

(b) where the ball was as he was crossing the out of bounds line in the air.

(c)where the ball was when his foot touches out of bounds.

(d) somewhere else.

[GeorgiaBlue]

the 'spot' is always in relation to the ball - although - when a player goes out of bounds, the body part that touches the line will get marked.

According to NFHS - rule 4-3-3 - When a runner goes out of bounds, the inbounds spot is fixed by the yard line through the foremost point of the ball at the time the runner crosses the plane of the sideline.

Just remember - it's always where the ball is when the runner is 'down' - nothing else.

[Wildcat Larry]

GeorgiaBlue wrote: the 'spot' is always in relation to the ball - although - when a player goes out of bounds, the body part that touches the line will get marked.

According to NFHS - rule 4-3-3 - When a runner goes out of bounds, the inbounds spot is fixed by the yard line through the foremost point of the ball at the time the runner crosses the plane of the sideline.

Just remember - it's always where the ball is when the runner is 'down' - nothing else.

If I'm understanding right, then, the answer is (b). It's the plane of the out of bounds line that counts if no body part actually touches the out of bounds line.

Have I interpreted that right?

[lighthouse]

I think a part of the body has to touch out of bounds before a player is considered out of bounds. Once out of bounds status has been determined, the spot is where that body part touched out of bounds. Much like basketball when a player has the ball and is actually past the out of bounds line, and calls time out before he touches the floor.

[Wildcat Larry]

Okay, guys, these are conflicting posts so I'm as confused as ever. ;):D

[HOMEYCAT]

The plane of the out of bounds line must come into play at times. For instance, a player diving toward the pylon, reaches out with one hand(the ball hand), goes into the inzone with his entire body but the ball is outside the pylon. He then drops the ball and rolls his whole body into the end zone without ever having touched the out of bounds line.

That's not a touchdown, or is it? Seems to me it would be marked where the ball went out through the plane of the out of bounds line. There must be addenda to the rule 4-3-3


However, if a player is running up the sideline doing the tip toe thing and holds the ball out of bounds through the plane, recovers and runs up the field never having touched the out of bounds line , then that ball I'm pretty sure is NOT out of bounds.....
The plane of the out of bounds line obviously comes into play when there is a ball kicked out of bounds and the ref judges the point at which it crossed the plane.

[GeorgiaBlue]

lighthouse - nope, when the player steps out of bounds, the spot is in relation to the ball, not where the player steps out of bounds.

homey - you are bringing goal lines and out of bounds lines (side lines) into play - and ya can't do that. the question was specifically about out of bounds.

[HOMEYCAT]

GeorgiaBlue wrote: lighthouse - nope, when the player steps out of bounds, the spot is in relation to the ball, not where the player steps out of bounds.

homey - you are bringing goal lines and out of bounds lines (side lines) into play - and ya can't do that. the question was specifically about out of bounds.
G blue .......I'm curious though. If the scenario were as I said, and I were the ref, I couldn't give the touchdown, because the ball never crossed the plane of the endzone. It would have to be like a fumble out of bounds, which is "where the ball crosses the plain of the out of bounds." The player has yet to touch anything out of bounds.

[lighthouse]

GeorgiaBlue wrote: lighthouse - nope, when the player steps out of bounds, the spot is in relation to the ball, not where the player steps out of bounds.

homey - you are bringing goal lines and out of bounds lines (side lines) into play - and ya can't do that. the question was specifically about out of bounds.



Well, it was a good guess. :) Not bad for an old retired basketball official.

[GeorgiaBlue]

for starters - the play you give as an example is extremely difficult to follow - here is what i can offer you.

You have two planes you are talking about - the side line plane - and the goal line plane. The goal line is extended beyond the side line as long as the player is inbounds. As soon as the player is out of bounds, the spot is in relation to the ball.

In your example - let's state the player dives diagonally from the two yard line over the corner of the endzone. his body never touches the endzone - he lands out of bounds (but still out of the endzone) - you still have a touchdown - the second the ball breaks the plane of the goal line, nothing else matters - if he fumbles - it doesn't matter - you still have a touchdown.

make sense?

[HOMEYCAT]

GeorgiaBlue wrote: for starters - the play you give as an example is extremely difficult to follow - here is what i can offer you.

You have two planes you are talking about - the side line plane - and the goal line plane. The goal line is extended beyond the side line as long as the player is inbounds. As soon as the player is out of bounds, the spot is in relation to the ball.

In your example - let's state the player dives diagonally from the two yard line over the corner of the endzone. his body never touches the endzone - he lands out of bounds (but still out of the endzone) - you still have a touchdown - the second the ball breaks the plane of the goal line, nothing else matters - if he fumbles - it doesn't matter - you still have a touchdown.

make sense?
No No, The player dives from the two yard line, the ball never breaks the plane of the end zone and is dropped out of bounds. The playerNEVER touches the out of bounds..... and he rolls into the endzone. I say no touchdown. Yet the player never touches the out of bounds. Only the ball does.

[GeorgiaBlue]

well certainly if the ball never crosses the plane of the goal line- you cannot have a touchdown.

[gerntz]

Thanks, GB. I've asked this question before on various sites & have never had such a clear response before, much less having a rule quoted. It fits with what I've generally seen from officials, but it looks far from uniform as applied.

Is the rule the same at all levels of FB to your knowledge?

GeorgiaBlue wrote: the 'spot' is always in relation to the ball - although - when a player goes out of bounds, the body part that touches the line will get marked.

According to NFHS - rule 4-3-3 - When a runner goes out of bounds, the inbounds spot is fixed by the yard line through the foremost point of the ball at the time the runner crosses the plane of the sideline.

Just remember - it's always where the ball is when the runner is 'down' - nothing else.

[GeorgiaBlue]

to my knowledge - yes.

[SouthBeachWildcat]

Myunderstanding in a goalline situation is that as long as the ball crosses the plane of the goalline, doesnt matter if it is on the inbounds side or the out of bounds side, before a players body part touches out of bounds, its a touchdown. So picture this, a ball carrier is running towards the left pilon, gets pushed to the sideline by a defender at the 2, dives diagonally into the air before being out of bounds, reaching the ball out. The ball never actually extends over the pylon, but it does extend further than the pylon. From my knowledge this is a touchdown.....Is this true? If you can understand that mess, lol

[SouthBeachWildcat]

Anyone see the Mike Vick play last night on Monday Night Football?

[GeorgiaBlue]

yep - TD

[Wildcat Larry]

I have no problem with the call (or understanding the call) at the goal line. My question sprung from an incident at the forty yard lline that determined a first down, or not. I'm still a little murky on this. :?

[GeorgiaBlue]

Larry - at the 40 yard line - the 'spot' is where the ball is when the player is down, or out of bounds. So if a player stretches out - at the 40 - ball at the 41 - foot out at the 39 - the ball is marked at the 41. Its no different than when a player is tackled in bounds - the spot is where the ball is when the runner is down.

in other words - always, always, always see the ball - and that's most important.


edit to add: I've gone back and read your original post several times - and in High School - I can say with 100%certainty - the answer is (b). If the rule is different for NCAA, NFL or otherwise, I cannot say.

[Wildcat Larry]

Good, I like when the answer is simple like ....... (b)! ;):) I can understand that.

[gerntz]

GB, what does a stretch have to do with it? If he's already down, stretching afterwards shouldn't matter, right?

Also, if a ball carrier is down on his knees with his torso vertical, he doen't get the subsequent forward fall/stretch, right?

GeorgiaBlue wrote: Larry - at the 40 yard line - the 'spot' is where the ball is when the player is down, or out of bounds. So if a player stretches out - at the 40 - ball at the 41 - foot out at the 39 - the ball is marked at the 41. Its no different than when a player is tackled in bounds - the spot is where the ball is when the runner is down.

in other words - always, always, always see the ball - and that's most important.


edit to add: I've gone back and read your original post several times - and in High School - I can say with 100%certainty - the answer is (b). If the rule is different for NCAA, NFL or otherwise, I cannot say.

[GeorgiaBlue]

gerntz wrote: GB, what does a stretch have to do with it? If he's already down, stretching afterwards shouldn't matter, right?

Also, if a ball carrier is down on his knees with his torso vertical, he doen't get the subsequent forward fall/stretch, right?

GeorgiaBlue wrote: Larry - at the 40 yard line - the 'spot' is where the ball is when the player is down, or out of bounds. So if a player stretches out - at the 40 - ball at the 41 - foot out at the 39 - the ball is marked at the 41. Its no different than when a player is tackled in bounds - the spot is where the ball is when the runner is down.

in other words - always, always, always see the ball - and that's most important.


edit to add: I've gone back and read your original post several times - and in High School - I can say with 100%certainty - the answer is (b). If the rule is different for NCAA, NFL or otherwise, I cannot say.

keep reading - i say over and over again - it's all about the position of the ball when the runner is down. i never said the player stretches out after being down - just that he stretched out - maybe I should have used the term 'laid out' instead.

It's always always always about the position of the ball.

[Wildcat Larry]

There was an out of bounds incident in (I think) the NC State game yesterday that sort of answered this question, and the officials called it like we have been discussing it.

The receiver caught the ball and was reeling towards the sidelines, his feet and body went out of bounds past the first down marker, but the ball was being held behind him and crossed the out of bounds line behind the marker. The officials spotted by the ball behind the marker where the ball was when the receiver went out of bounds.

Nothing new in all of that, but I was glad to see the rule and question in a real situation instead of just my dreamed up scenario.