Big men and fouls?

[SamKat]

Is today's game so different than the 50's and 60's? Wilt Chamberlain was an offensive machine who could stay in games for lack of fouls. Bill Russel was such a defensive presence yet he only had twice the fouls per game that Wilt had.

Stats:

Wilt 2075 fouls 1045 games 1.99 fouls per game

Russell 2592 fouls963 games3.8 fouls per game

Why can't defensive films of these outstanding big men serve as good coaching material for some needy big men in helping them stay out of foul trouble? It must be an individual thing in the mind of each big.

Do you have any ideas on this Lighthouse (WCN's resident referee)?

[ukcatfan]

Bill Russell played on both ends of the floor. He gave 100% all the time. Do you think the spoiled players of today give 100???

Wilt only played on the offensive end.

If WC had a block it was because the man got within 3 feet of him and had to shoot.

[DCWildcat]

The average height for centers in Wilt's day was less than 6'7". Any more fouls than that would be...well, embarassing. His owner made it clear that his role wasn't just primarily offensive, it was strictly offensive.

As for Russell, 3.8 fouls/game is actually quite a bit, though not unexpected with the way he played.

Yes, the game has changed drastically, especially on the interior. Russell, as talented as he was, would only be about average athletically in today's game. That makes a big difference.

[Spanish Moss]

I am of the opinion both Russell and Chamberlain would have excelled in today's game. Today's players have better training and conditioning so if you put men with the talent of Chamberlain and Russell in today's world they would soon rise to the top. Both were strong and quick. Both were athletes, especially Chamberlain. He was in great shape all of his life.

Only a handful of players in NBA history were as strong as Chamberlain and Russell had a burning desire to win and would never accept defeat.

I don't believe Chamberlain ever fouled out of a game and I think if you check the history books you will find he played almost every minute of every game.

It is hard to compare generations due in part to better equipment, conditioning and training of today's athletes. But the old timers were not slouches. Mickey Mantle could run to first base in 3.1 seconds and hit a baseball 600 feet. Jim Brown and Gayle Sayers would start on any football team, in any generation. Give them the training the athletes get today and they lead the league because they had talent and a burning desire to be the best.

[sardiscat]

"Is today's game so different than the 50's and 60's?"

Duh.NBA owners had a quota on the number of Black players that could be on a team in the '60s. Only the Celtics ever had more than 3 at one time. Chamberlain played the entire game every game and never fouled out, but centers back in that era were slow and ponderous.There were some other big ones, but there weren't any besides Chamberlain and Russell who were both big and quick, and Russell had no offensive moves other than a hook shot.Most of Russell's points came on fast breaks and tip-ins.Alcindor was a complete freak of nature compared to anybody else who had ever played the game when he came into the league (or as compared to anybody who has come along since, as far as that goes) in that he was a very big and very quickman with a complete offensive arsenal, andboth Russell and Chamberlain decided to retire. (Russell retired abruptly before Alcindor's rookie season. I've always thought the reason was he didn't want to have Alcindor embarrass him on the court. Chamberlain played a couple seasons against Alcindor, and seemed like a fossil in comparison. Chamberlain hadstopped trying to be an offensive force by then, but led the league in assists one season at the end of his career.) Themodern-day approach of big men backing into defenders to initiate contact invariably resulted in fouls being called on the offensive player back then, not the defensive player ashappens now. When Chamberlain got in foul trouble, he simply backed off his man a little further and then blocked the shot. He could really jumpon top of already being so tall, and opposing centers shot fall away shots or hook shots against him instead of taking the ball straight at him. (As mentioned above, the result of taking the ball straight at a defender usually was an offensive foul in those days). Chamberlain was every bit the defender in the half court that Russell was, if not better, but he wasn't the fanatic about running the court to defend against the fast break that Russell was.

[SamKat]

I appreciate these excellent replies and the respective opinions. I like that.

A lot of the relative size thing and the over-all black school yard aspect of all highest competiton in all aspects is impressive in basketball.

I wonder still that teaching or coaching by showing big men the skills of the non-fouling big men wouldn't aid Randolph Morris in particular. I was exteremely happy that he had 0 fouls against Miss. Va. St last night; however the opposition was, by no means, of the highest calibre.

[ukcatfan]

Now that Kareem has been brought in.

He is the BEST ALL AROUND big man to play the game.

There is another factor that has not been mentioned---REFEREES.