Fans Affect Recruiting, Period

[audacious1]

"Recruits and their families read that stuff," Cronin says. "They see that UC isn't going after so-and-so as hard as they had been, and they start wondering what's going on. We have to be proactive. We have to find that stuff and tell (recruits and parents), 'Those aren't university Web sites.' "

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061119/SPT03/611190430/1087/SPT0101

[Gunsmoke]

How freakin' true is this!:rolleyes:It's like deja vu all over again after visiting UK sites. Looks like it is a common All-American theme now.

[Coldstream]

Good article and really, this isn't limited to recruiting. It affects just about every facet of college athletics nowadays.

[catman22]

This is the only time that UK haveing such a big following hurts us.

[trublue4life]

When Cronin was an assistant coach at Louisville under Rick Pitino, the coaching staff became so fed up with erroneous posts regarding the Cardinals' recruiting, they hatched a plan to embarrass a big booster, whom they'd identified as a prime poster of misinformation.

They went with the booster to dinner, then let it slip they were about to sign the son of former NBA forward Charles Oakley. The catch: The kid didn't exist. The coaches talked up young Oakley's size - 6-foot-8, 250 pounds - and swore the booster to secrecy.

"The next day, there it is" on a U of L sports message board, Cronin says: "Cards After Secret Prospect." Other posters chimed in, claiming to know when Oakley would visit the campus. Others said they'd already seen him there.

WOW! While I'm certainly no fan of Pitino now that he wears the red & black of our archrival this is priceless! And I would really love to hear from that segment of fans on this board who insist that negative fans do not influence recruiting and want to contend that such a notion is only an excuse that Tubby dreamed up. Great article!

[alan32766]

I would say that the negativity of fans hurts recruiting. I would go on to say that, the degree of damage to recruiting is proportional to such negativity. First off, all programs will have some group of disgruntled fans. This group would need to reach some critical mass before their complaints would become pervasive enough to influence recruits. With today’s information highway, newsgroups, blogs and forums this critical mass is significantly smaller than in years past. Therefore, what begets this "critical mass" of negativity? In our case, it would be the perception that our program has declined over the last few years. Now you may argue whether this perception is correct or not, but that no longer is the true issue here. I would propose that the issue now is that a critical number of fans believe that this decline is in fact reality. In a true sense, this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and recruiting declines and so does the program. To some this decline had already started before all the negativity began to others the decline was brought about by the negativity. At some point, the reversal of this trend can only be accomplished by new leadership. Whether the removal of the coach is justifiable based on performance, it becomes necessary as the means to change perception. In essence, to reduce the negativity to below the critical mass. Ultimately the only question is, does Tubby have enough influence and time to reverse this trend?

[Will Lavender]

alan32766 wrote: I would say that the negativity of fans hurts recruiting. I would go on to say that, the degree of damage to recruiting is proportional to such negativity. First off, all programs will have some group of disgruntled fans. This group would need to reach some critical mass before their complaints would become pervasive enough to influence recruits. With today’s information highway, newsgroups, blogs and forums this critical mass is significantly smaller than in years past. Therefore, what begets this "critical mass" of negativity? In our case, it would be the perception that our program has declined over the last few years. Now you may argue whether this perception is correct or not, but that no longer is the true issue here. I would propose that the issue now is that a critical number of fans believe that this decline is in fact reality. In a true sense, this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and recruiting declines and so does the program. To some this decline had already started before all the negativity began to others the decline was brought about by the negativity. At some point, the reversal of this trend can only be accomplished by new leadership. Whether the removal of the coach is justifiable based on performance, it becomes necessary as the means to change perception. In essence, to reduce the negativity to below the critical mass. Ultimately the only question is, does Tubby have enough influence and time to reverse this trend?




Good post.

The answer to the last question is, Yes. He just has to win.

But I do agree with the idea of the "self-fulfilling prophecy." You go to a place like TCP, where a lot of the posters seem to be young, and it's amazing how much weight they give to other posters.

A guy will say, "I don't think we'll get Jai Lucas," and another poster will come in and say, "We're doomed!" and then a third will come in and say, "This has got to stop!" and so on and so on. Certain posters, especially if they are "insiders," carry a tremendous amount of weight. And so the prophecy -- perhaps a false one, or at least one that is not altogether true; i.e. that UK is on a quick demise -- is perpetuated again and again by people who really, frankly, don't know that much.

[Doug Hardin]

trublue4life wrote: When Cronin was an assistant coach at Louisville under Rick Pitino, the coaching staff became so fed up with erroneous posts regarding the Cardinals' recruiting, they hatched a plan to embarrass a big booster, whom they'd identified as a prime poster of misinformation.

They went with the booster to dinner, then let it slip they were about to sign the son of former NBA forward Charles Oakley. The catch: The kid didn't exist. The coaches talked up young Oakley's size - 6-foot-8, 250 pounds - and swore the booster to secrecy.

"The next day, there it is" on a U of L sports message board, Cronin says: "Cards After Secret Prospect." Other posters chimed in, claiming to know when Oakley would visit the campus. Others said they'd already seen him there.

WOW! While I'm certainly no fan of Pitino now that he wears the red & black of our archrival this is priceless! And I would really love to hear from that segment of fans on this board who insist that negative fans do not influence recruiting and want to contend that such a notion is only an excuse that Tubby dreamed up. Great article!

Didn't Bobby Knight do this kind of thing to discredit a recruiting analyst back in the 80s? Make up a fake eastern European player named Ivan Renko to get the analyst to say he had seen the kid play, that he wasn't very good, etc.?

[trublue4life]

Doug Hardin wrote: trublue4life wrote: When Cronin was an assistant coach at Louisville under Rick Pitino, the coaching staff became so fed up with erroneous posts regarding the Cardinals' recruiting, they hatched a plan to embarrass a big booster, whom they'd identified as a prime poster of misinformation.

They went with the booster to dinner, then let it slip they were about to sign the son of former NBA forward Charles Oakley. The catch: The kid didn't exist. The coaches talked up young Oakley's size - 6-foot-8, 250 pounds - and swore the booster to secrecy.

"The next day, there it is" on a U of L sports message board, Cronin says: "Cards After Secret Prospect." Other posters chimed in, claiming to know when Oakley would visit the campus. Others said they'd already seen him there.

WOW! While I'm certainly no fan of Pitino now that he wears the red & black of our archrival this is priceless! And I would really love to hear from that segment of fans on this board who insist that negative fans do not influence recruiting and want to contend that such a notion is only an excuse that Tubby dreamed up. Great article!

Didn't Bobby Knight do this kind of thing to discredit a recruiting analyst back in the 80s? Make up a fake eastern European player named Ivan Renko to get the analyst to say he had seen the kid play, that he wasn't very good, etc.?
I don't remember whether it was Knight but I do remember the incident. Also, some years back someone made up a fictitous high school player, sent the info to Street & Smith and the fake kid got ranked among the top 150 high school prospects in the nation.

[catman22]

Yes it was Bobby Knight.



Also the mets one year as a april fools joke made up a picture that could throw like 130mph.

[audacious1]

Will Lavender wrote: alan32766 wrote: I would say that the negativity of fans hurts recruiting. I would go on to say that, the degree of damage to recruiting is proportional to such negativity. First off, all programs will have some group of disgruntled fans. This group would need to reach some critical mass before their complaints would become pervasive enough to influence recruits. With today’s information highway, newsgroups, blogs and forums this critical mass is significantly smaller than in years past. Therefore, what begets this "critical mass" of negativity? In our case, it would be the perception that our program has declined over the last few years. Now you may argue whether this perception is correct or not, but that no longer is the true issue here. I would propose that the issue now is that a critical number of fans believe that this decline is in fact reality. In a true sense, this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and recruiting declines and so does the program. To some this decline had already started before all the negativity began to others the decline was brought about by the negativity. At some point, the reversal of this trend can only be accomplished by new leadership. Whether the removal of the coach is justifiable based on performance, it becomes necessary as the means to change perception. In essence, to reduce the negativity to below the critical mass. Ultimately the only question is, does Tubby have enough influence and time to reverse this trend?

Good post.

The answer to the last question is, Yes. He just has to win.

But I do agree with the idea of the "self-fulfilling prophecy." You go to a place like TCP, where a lot of the posters seem to be young, and it's amazing how much weight they give to other posters.

A guy will say, "I don't think we'll get Jai Lucas," and another poster will come in and say, "We're doomed!" and then a third will come in and say, "This has got to stop!" and so on and so on. Certain posters, especially if they are "insiders," carry a tremendous amount of weight. And so the prophecy -- perhaps a false one, or at least one that is not altogether true; i.e. that UK is on a quick demise -- is perpetuated again and again by people who really, frankly, don't know that much.

Yes and yes. This reminds me of Tipping Point (http://www.amazon.com/Tipping-Point-Little-Things-Difference/dp/0316346624/sr=8-1/qid=1164227170/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-4646873-3699337?ie=UTF8&s=books).

[Art Vandelay]

I'm sure negativity does affect recruiting, but negativity doesn't develop in a vacuum. A lot of people that have been fans, boosters, and supporters of this program for a long time are unhappy with the direction UK's program is heading. They express this dissatisfactin in many ways, internet message boards is just one. A lot of folks simply just don't care as much as they used to, which translates into the empty seats we've seen recently at Rupp.

Bottom line, people are entitled to their opinion. Decry the expressioin of negative feelings all you want, but there is no way to make people agree with you or make them behave the way you want them to. We may reach a point where we simply need some new life in the program in the form of a new coach.

Until that happens, we need to hope that Tubby concentrates on those aspects of recruiting he can control. From most of the things I've read, his crew has been disorganized and slow to act in a lot of cases. They've also been wildly inconsistent in talent evaluation.

Finally, start winning games again and suddenly everything seems more positive.

[audacious1]

I'm not trying to "make" anyone do anything, I'm trying to highlight the reason behind carefully selecting which comments to publish to the world, and which to keep to oneself. Surely you see that that only reason I'm talking about this is for the betterment of our program and certainly not to stiffle anyone's right to free speech?

(For example, if I truly feel that Tubby is no longer our best option, that's all fine and good but because I still want to get the best possible recruits for our program, I'm going to hold those comments back because I understand that recruits in this day and age do read Internet message boards. Doesn't that make sense?)

[tauzreborn]

I was with some friends watching the game against UCLA and we started arguing about UK, Pitino, and other things. What I realized is that these so-called fans were rooting against UK - They wanted us to lose. They want the program to suffer so that Tubby will be ran off.

Then today watching the game with my roommates it was the same thing. Many of our fans actually root against us. I dont understand why anyone would want their favorite team to lose becausethey dont like the coach. Truly Unbelievable. I have seen the same thing with Rich Brooks.

You want a coach that wins, but you dont want our coach to win. Flawed logic if you ask me.

[BigblueDrew]

tauzreborn wrote: I was with some friends watching the game against UCLA and we started arguing about UK, Pitino, and other things. What I realized is that these so-called fans were rooting against UK - They wanted us to lose. They want the program to suffer so that Tubby will be ran off.

Then today watching the game with my roommates it was the same thing. Many of our fans actually root against us. I dont understand why anyone would want their favorite team to lose becausethey dont like the coach. Truly Unbelievable. I have seen the same thing with Rich Brooks.

You want a coach that wins, but you dont want our coach to win. Flawed logic if you ask me.


I live in Tennessee and I see our basketball program and the opinions about our coach almost mirroring the situation with thier football program.A segmant of fans here have lost all faith in Phillip Fulmer, and many feel that only a total collapse of his team will force the school administration to make a change they see as neccessary. I think the same thing is motivating some of our fans. It's a stupid way of looking at things but thats the way it appears to be.

[audacious1]

tauzreborn wrote: I was with some friends watching the game against UCLA and we started arguing about UK, Pitino, and other things. What I realized is that these so-called fans were rooting against UK - They wanted us to lose. They want the program to suffer so that Tubby will be ran off.

Then today watching the game with my roommates it was the same thing. Many of our fans actually root against us. I dont understand why anyone would want their favorite team to lose becausethey dont like the coach. Truly Unbelievable. I have seen the same thing with Rich Brooks.

You want a coach that wins, but you dont want our coach to win. Flawed logic if you ask me.

Flawed logic and counter-productive. Not all fans are created equal.

[bamacat]

Art Vandelay wrote: I'm sure negativity does affect recruiting, but negativity doesn't develop in a vacuum. A lot of people that have been fans, boosters, and supporters of this program for a long time are unhappy with the direction UK's program is heading. They express this dissatisfactin in many ways, internet message boards is just one. A lot of folks simply just don't care as much as they used to, which translates into the empty seats we've seen recently at Rupp.

Bottom line, people are entitled to their opinion. Decry the expressioin of negative feelings all you want, but there is no way to make people agree with you or make them behave the way you want them to. We may reach a point where we simply need some new life in the program in the form of a new coach.

Until that happens, we need to hope that Tubby concentrates on those aspects of recruiting he can control. From most of the things I've read, his crew has been disorganized and slow to act in a lot of cases. They've also been wildly inconsistent in talent evaluation.

Finally, start winning games again and suddenly everything seems more positive.Sure didn't take long for a negative post to appear

[poodoo]

tauzreborn wrote: I was with some friends watching the game against UCLA and we started arguing about UK, Pitino, and other things. What I realized is that these so-called fans were rooting against UK - They wanted us to lose. They want the program to suffer so that Tubby will be ran off.

Then today watching the game with my roommates it was the same thing. Many of our fans actually root against us. I dont understand why anyone would want their favorite team to lose becausethey dont like the coach. Truly Unbelievable. I have seen the same thing with Rich Brooks.

You want a coach that wins, but you dont want our coach to win. Flawed logic if you ask me.



Yes,wanting one's coach (and thus one's team) to loseis both "truly unbelievable" and sad. :(

[katfever]

Fans may affect recruiting but Tubby and his staff's lack of effective recruiting have much more to do with the shape of our roster today. The fans, the weather, the girls etc. are just built in excuses for Tubby's failures.

[audacious1]

katfever wrote: Fans may affect recruiting but Tubby and his staff's lack of effective recruiting have much more to do with the shape of our roster today. The fans, the weather, the girls etc. are just built in excuses for Tubby's failures.
They're not "excuses". They're additional factors.

But you're right that Tubby and the staff play a larger role. That's a completely fair thing to say. But to say fans have no influence is factually incorrect.

[poodoo]

Tre Pryor wrote: katfever wrote: Fans may affect recruiting but Tubby and his staff's lack of effective recruiting have much more to do with the shape of our roster today. The fans, the weather, the girls etc. are just built in excuses for Tubby's failures.
They're not "excuses". They're additional factors.

But you're right that Tubby and the staff play a larger role. That's a completely fair thing to say. But to say fans have no influence is factually incorrect.


I so agree that the coaching staff plays a much larger role than fans andthat recruiting is the coaching staff's responsibility. I go farther and say that I don't think we fans had anything to do with the misses on power forwards the past few years.

However, I also think that it is ridiculous to think that fans have absolutely NO influence on recruiting, merely based on recruits' actual comments. Personally, as a fan, I cannot understand taking any chance whatsoeverof negatively affecting my own team's chances of getting a recruit. Just my honest feelings on the matter.

[blueheretic]

Bottom Line: TUBBY SMITH

Everything else is a convenient excuse for a guy who just isn't getting it done.

[Spanish Moss]

[audacious1]

blueheretic wrote: Bottom Line: TUBBY SMITH

Everything else is a convenient excuse for a guy who just isn't getting it done.

It's ultimately Tubby's responsibility but that's not what this thread is about. It's about how Fans affect the results that Tubby ends up with. For many, to say that fans don't affect recruiting, is merely an attempttopush responsibility from themselves so they can say whatever the hell they feel like, whether it hurts the program or not.

[blueheretic]

Tre Pryor wrote: blueheretic wrote: Bottom Line: TUBBY SMITH

Everything else is a convenient excuse for a guy who just isn't getting it done.

It's ultimately Tubby's responsibility but that's not what this thread is about. It's about how Fans affect the results that Tubby ends up with. For many, to say that fans don't affect recruiting, is merely an attempttopush responsibility from themselves so they can say whatever the hell they feel like, whether it hurts the program or not.

It's a convenient crutch for a man who is beginning to be recognizednationally as a poor recruiter.

Like I said, UNC ran off two coaches and still recruits well.

Why is Tubby special?

It's an excuse from a man and his fans who never seem to run out of fingers to point elsewhere for his shortcomings.

Finally, others arebeginning to see the obvious.

[poodoo]

It's an excuse from a man and his fans who never seem to run out of fingers to point elsewhere for his shortcomings. QUOTE

_______

To my knowledge, Tubby Smith has not blamed UK fans for his recruiting misses (and he should not do that, either, by the way). Also, I do not think (and IKNOW in regard to me myself)any fans are usingUK fans' negativity asan excuse for Tubby's recruiting misses (and the power forward position is one where Tubby has had far too many misses) and are pointing fingers elsewhere for Tubby's "shortcomings." Further, most UK fans, besides Tubby himself as based on his comments at Big BlueMadness,realize that our fan support is mostly a positive for UK's recruiting.

Having said that I STILL think the most recent extreme negativity with the newspaper ad to get rid of Tubby and the national attention thatthe adreceived could POTENTIALLy be damaging to our chances with a particular recruit or two, especially since some recruits and their families have expressed how they LOVE Tubby and are concerned about those things. It seems logical to me that rival recruiters repeatedly remind recruits of that extreme negativity within our fan base, which could be to our disadvantage.

As I said, for ME, I would never say something that COULD negatively affect recruiting. Regardless, no, I do not remotely blame UK fans for any of Tubby's misses in the past, and I certainly won't blame fans for any misses in the future, either. It is Tubby's job to recruit and get commitments, period.For me as a fan, though, it is my job to support the UK basketballprogram and be sure that I take NO chances in making that job more difficult for the head coach. That's just my personal feelings on the matter. :)

[audacious1]

blueheretic wrote: Tre Pryor wrote: blueheretic wrote: Bottom Line: TUBBY SMITH

Everything else is a convenient excuse for a guy who just isn't getting it done.

It's ultimately Tubby's responsibility but that's not what this thread is about. It's about how Fans affect the results that Tubby ends up with. For many, to say that fans don't affect recruiting, is merely an attempttopush responsibility from themselves so they can say whatever the hell they feel like, whether it hurts the program or not.

It's a convenient crutch for a man who is beginning to be recognizednationally as a poor recruiter.

Like I said, UNC ran off two coaches and still recruits well.

Why is Tubby special?

It's an excuse from a man and his fans who never seem to run out of fingers to point elsewhere for his shortcomings.

Finally, others arebeginning to see the obvious.

Your arguments are so predictably one-sided they could be written by a computer script. I'm surprised you don't get tired posting the same message on every thread regardless of the topic.

I don't believe anyone is saying that Tubby is the best recruiter nor that he doesn't need to improve in that area.Reasonable fans will acknowledge the good recruiting, whereas people like youonly focus on the negative... to the detriment of our program.

[bigsky]

“In high school I was a Kentucky fan,” Wright said. “My mom was a big Kentucky fan. Everybody in the world thought I was going to Kentucky.”

A wink from Wright, who hung 16 points, five rebounds and a block on Tubby Smith’s team.

“But once I stepped back and really thought about the situation, I knew this was the best place for me,” Wright said. “North Carolina likes to get up and down the floor. That’s the style I like to play, and that’s the style that’s best for me to play.

“Kentucky tries to slow it down like they did today. That’s not the style I wanted to play.” Brandon Wright

Apparently, it's something other than "fans".

[audacious1]

bigsky wrote: “In high school I was a Kentucky fan,” Wright said. “My mom was a big Kentucky fan. Everybody in the world thought I was going to Kentucky.”

A wink from Wright, who hung 16 points, five rebounds and a block on Tubby Smith’s team.

“But once I stepped back and really thought about the situation, I knew this was the best place for me,” Wright said. “North Carolina likes to get up and down the floor. That’s the style I like to play, and that’s the style that’s best for me to play.

“Kentucky tries to slow it down like they did today. That’s not the style I wanted to play.” Brandon Wright

Apparently, it's something other than "fans".



You're either being purposefully deceptive or you don't understand English.

The thread is about the fact that Fans Affect Recruiting. That doesn't mean fans are the only thing nor is that what we've been saying.

[blueheretic]

Tre Pryor wrote: Your arguments are so predictably one-sided they could be written by a computer script. I'm surprised you don't get tired posting the same message on every thread regardless of the topic.

I don't believe anyone is saying that Tubby is the best recruiter nor that he doesn't need to improve in that area.Reasonable fans will acknowledge the good recruiting, whereas people like youonly focus on the negative... to the detriment of our program.



One could say the same of you.



"Blah blah blah....it's the fans fault. Recruits don't come to UK because of fan negativity...blah blah blah. Blah blah blah.....Tubby is not to blame."

[bigsky]

LOL! Actually several Kentucky fans must've PAID Brandon Wright to say what he did, otherwise, I'm sure he would have said he didn't come here because of the fans.

[Coldstream]

blueheretic wrote: Tre Pryor wrote: Your arguments are so predictably one-sided they could be written by a computer script. I'm surprised you don't get tired posting the same message on every thread regardless of the topic.

I don't believe anyone is saying that Tubby is the best recruiter nor that he doesn't need to improve in that area.Reasonable fans will acknowledge the good recruiting, whereas people like youonly focus on the negative... to the detriment of our program.



One could say the same of you.



"Blah blah blah....it's the fans fault. Recruits don't come to UK because of fan negativity...blah blah blah. Blah blah blah.....Tubby is not to blame."
Once AGAIN, you misinterpreted what he was really saying. No ONE said Tubby is NOT to blame. You continue to dance around the debate this thread is about: does negative criticism on public forums such as this impact UK's recruiting efforts?

[katfever]

bigsky wrote: “In high school I was a Kentucky fan,” Wright said. “My mom was a big Kentucky fan. Everybody in the world thought I was going to Kentucky.”

A wink from Wright, who hung 16 points, five rebounds and a block on Tubby Smith’s team.

“But once I stepped back and really thought about the situation, I knew this was the best place for me,” Wright said. “North Carolina likes to get up and down the floor. That’s the style I like to play, and that’s the style that’s best for me to play.

“Kentucky tries to slow it down like they did today. That’s not the style I wanted to play.” Brandon Wright

Apparently, it's something other than "fans".


Ouch. This sad quote speaks volumes about how Tubbyball is perceived. Whether Tubby wants to admit it or not, kids want to play up and down basketball. He is out of touch and hasturned into ourDenny Crum. I can still see Crum on the sidelines too damn stubborn to embrace the 3 point shot as UK rained 3s down on the Cards.

[phoenix]

blueheretic wrote:

.

Like I said, UNC ran off two coaches and still recruits well.


Finally, others arebeginning to see the obvious.


So, you are saying it is KY itself that is the recruiting problem?

That UNC is so desirable that anybody can recruit for that school?

[phoenix]

katfever wrote: bigsky wrote: “In high school I was a Kentucky fan,” Wright said. “My mom was a big Kentucky fan. Everybody in the world thought I was going to Kentucky.”

A wink from Wright, who hung 16 points, five rebounds and a block on Tubby Smith’s team.

“But once I stepped back and really thought about the situation, I knew this was the best place for me,” Wright said. “North Carolina likes to get up and down the floor. That’s the style I like to play, and that’s the style that’s best for me to play.

“Kentucky tries to slow it down like they did today. That’s not the style I wanted to play.” Brandon Wright

Apparently, it's something other than "fans".


Ouch. This sad quote speaks volumes about how Tubbyball is perceived. Whether Tubby wants to admit it or not, kids want to play up and down basketball. He is out of touch and hasturned into ourDenny Crum. I can still see Crum on the sidelines too damn stubborn to embrace the 3 point shot as UK rained 3s down on the Cards.

Unfortunately a lot of that perception is based on subjective fan ideas in a circular mode of reinforcement, and it has no basis in statistics or fact. This claim has been examined before.

[katfever]

phoenix wrote: katfever wrote: bigsky wrote: “In high school I was a Kentucky fan,” Wright said. “My mom was a big Kentucky fan. Everybody in the world thought I was going to Kentucky.”

A wink from Wright, who hung 16 points, five rebounds and a block on Tubby Smith’s team.

“But once I stepped back and really thought about the situation, I knew this was the best place for me,” Wright said. “North Carolina likes to get up and down the floor. That’s the style I like to play, and that’s the style that’s best for me to play.

“Kentucky tries to slow it down like they did today. That’s not the style I wanted to play.” Brandon Wright

Apparently, it's something other than "fans".


Ouch. This sad quote speaks volumes about how Tubbyball is perceived. Whether Tubby wants to admit it or not, kids want to play up and down basketball. He is out of touch and hasturned into ourDenny Crum. I can still see Crum on the sidelines too damn stubborn to embrace the 3 point shot as UK rained 3s down on the Cards.

Unfortunately a lot of that perception is based on subjective fan ideas in a circular mode of reinforcement, and it has no basis in statistics or fact. This claim has been examined before.That's interesting- I thought Wright was a player who went to UNC instead UK for that very reason or so he said. I guess he was blinded by what the fans on message boards posted. :rolleyes:

[hoosierhateruklover]

It is easy to blame fans for being negative and some do jump ship on their team(s) rather easily, but when the university administrations and the ncaado everything they can in their power to make being a fan next to impossible, can you really blame them?

[blueheretic]

phoenix wrote: blueheretic wrote:

.

Like I said, UNC ran off two coaches and still recruits well.


Finally, others arebeginning to see the obvious.


So, you are saying it is KY itself that is the recruiting problem?

That UNC is so desirable that anybody can recruit for that school?

No, I'm saying that Orlando Smith is the problem.

[bigsky]

I'm saying that Orlando Smith is the problem.
Make that two.

[Spanish Moss]

[Grub]

Spanish Moss wrote: bigsky wrote:

I'm saying that Orlando Smith is the problem.
Make that two.

The list is getting longer.

I want to say I don't necessarily agree with any of you three, but I still love you guys. In a brotherly way of course...

[jaken]

Remember the Dan Werner recruitment back in the Summer? NC State was his logical choice. They barely got a complimentary visit. Why? Dan's Dad said they were knocked out of the running becauseHE didn't like what the various NCS BB boards were saying about his son. The KY boards were full of negative comments - the Florida boards had virtually no mention of him........hmmmmm? It's 2006, the Internet is a part of life for virtually everybody. It's a source of information and the recruits and their families use it to evaluate a prospective program, Coach, the views of the fans about their recruitment, etc. Lots of negativity about the program, the Coach or their SON definitely has aninfluence of where they will "fit' the best. mmeeks (as in Jodie's family) is a poster on this board - the recruits and their families read these boards - it's a way to "test the water" as to how the program, the Coach and the recruitare perceived. In the recruitment process, a recruit hears the same thing from everyCoach that comes to dinner - so the family and the recruit seek out sources of other info - the Net - the various boards - and they get an idea of just what's "up" with the various programs. Jai lucas, Patrick Patterson - why are they waiting? They want to see what's going to "happen" (Coaching changes, season, etc.)with the programs they're looking at -reading the Net told them they need to wait to make their decision. Will Forida do it again, will Donovan go to the NBA, will Tubbytake this team up the ladder? It's 2006 - to say these boards have no influence....duh..........! Not individually (per board), no specific comment by an idiot.....the general "feeling" they get by reading these boards has a definite influence. If I were a recruit,I and my family would "for sure" use the various program's boards as a 'source" to make my decision.It's 2006 - use what's available. You reap what you sow.

[blueheretic]

I acknowledge that fans have a little influence. But I differ with Tre and his compatriots on the magnitude of that influence.

I think that Tubby Smith is the primary detriment to UK recruiting. All of these recruits year after year talk about how they love Tubby and what a great person he is.

Then they turn around and head to Memphis, Florida, Duke, UNC, Oregon, and everywhere else except UK.

When Tubby does get a heralded recruit, they invariably think about leaving the program. Crawford, Morris, Rondo being the latest. Bad evaluation gives of Rashaad Carruth over Daniel Ewing.

Tubby Smith is a never ending laundry list of recruiting failures and transfers.

And then (and most of those who defend Tubby see this differently), his players are consistently under rated in the NBA Draft. Like it or not, that is a key with the top recruits. A player comes to UK and his stock goes down each year. That doesn't happen at UNC or Duke. Even though year after year, DUKE ballers do nothing in the NBA.

Tubby Smith is the primary reason that UK does not recruit well.

As was stated earlier, fan negativity is a result of Tubby's recruiting woes not the cause.

Some would have you think the opposite is true. The same people who like to speak of circular logic.

Tubby starts recruiting well and putting his ballers in the NBA Lottery, he will start winning and that will create momentum for the program.

Another great Tubby negative. The inability to maintain momentum year to year in the program. Elite Eight one year, Team Turmoil and a 2nd Round ouster the next.

Signature Tubby Smith.

That is what is killing recruiting.

[Spanish Moss]

[blueheretic]

...and there you have it.

UK recruiting. Missed opportunity after missed opportunity.

[HC]

Spanish Moss wrote: Last night there was a huge High School matchup between Norcross and Oak Hill and it was played in Atlanta. There was so much talent on the floor and most of the players will play Div I ball.

This would have been a perfect time for Tubby Smith to make a presence. In the crowd were such coaches as Roy Williams (UNC) and Billy Donovan (UF). There were many, many other Div I coaches there as well. But no Tubby Smith.

Now why is it important for our head coach to be seen in the crowd at one of the biggest high school games of the year. #1 v. #2. Why? Well, figure it out.

I asked myself the same question last night!

[Spanish Moss]