The good old days are gone; parity has arrived.

[trublue4life]

I know UK fans don't want to hear this but the days of dynasties are over. After watching this crazy week of basketball it's pretty obvious that the old adage "on any given night" has never been more true. Consider:


We hold off a game DePaul and win by 7.
We give a very good UCLA team all they can handle and really squander a chance to win.
Memphis loses a big lead to Georgia Tech and looks vulnerable in doing so.
Memphis takes us to the woodshed after a competitive 1st half.
UCLA pretty much dominates Georgia Tech from start to finish.
(I'm just getting started)


Duke loses to Marquette.
Butler (wins over Indiana) then comes back from an 18-6 deficit to beat UT by a score of 56-44. For the rest of the game they held the up and down, shoot the threes and make-you-play-at-our-pace Tennessee Vols to 38 points!(Anybody want to talk about controlling tempo?)
Gonzaga, a year after1st team all-American Adam Morrison leaves for the NBA,wins convincingly over the #2 North Carolina Tarheelswith burger boys all over the place (theyare going to needmore basketballs in Chapel Hill!).
Butler and Gonzaga will play for the championship of the preseason NIT.
Did I mention the ORU victory over Kansas in Lawrence? Kind of gives new meaning tothe book written years ago by theOral Roberts entitled. "You Can Expect a Miracle!" BTW, that was on the same night Winthrop (quick, tell me what city Winthrop is in?) took UNC to the wire.
The best team in the nation, the Florida Gators,was put together with a really freaky recruiting class - two sons of former NBA players, the son of a pro tennis star who grew to be a 6'11" lottery pick and only one top 50 player! They win the NCAA and are heavily favored to win a 2nd the year after losng their own burger boys. Just weird.
Alabama wins the Paradise Jam, notexactly loaded with tough teamsbut, let's face it, 'Bama seldom wins anything in b'ball.
The point is this is going to be one crazy year. The limit of 13 scholarships has effectively spread the talent so that the traditional powers are no longer locks to make it to the final four (see George Mason). The "one and dones" brought on by the stupid NBA age restriction will further cloud the pciture and make the job of coaches that much harder. "Team chemistry" may well become the most important and talked about dynamic in the college game. We have a chance to be very good by year's end but we are going to lose some games along the way, which means the Tubby bashers will probably be in top form early on, moaning about the good old days. Sorry to have to break this to you, but they are gone.

[bigjeep]

Here`s hopingit stay`s gone through tomorrow night...

Go Tops! Beat Flordia!

[Spanish Moss]

[delkfor3]

Spanish Moss wrote: And to add to this list, apathy has set in.

The more you lose the easier it becomes. OTS does not inspire the team or the fans. Without inspiration or hope you accept the inevitable and your goals are set lower each passing season. We no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion. We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four. It would be overachieving to win the SEC East and/or SEC Tournament Championship.

So our goal is reduced to not losing 10 games this season. If OTS does not lose 10 he will have had a great year as a coach. Call it parity or not but the good old days are indeed, gone.

Great post Spanish Moss, it's hard to disagree with what you posted. My only disagreement with you is, I expect Final Fours and NC's, I refuse to settle for less. I want to walk around with my chest out, full of pride in my CATS. Final Fours and National Championships are our birth right, and we have every right to expect our coaches to get us there.:wildcatface

[trublue4life]

Spanish Moss wrote: And to add to this list, apathy has set in.

The more you lose the easier it becomes. OTS does not inspire the team or the fans. Without inspiration or hope you accept the inevitable and your goals are set lower each passing season. We no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion. We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four. It would be overachieving to win the SEC East and/or SEC Tournament Championship.

So our goal is reduced to not losing 10 games this season. If OTS does not lose 10 he will have had a great year as a coach. Call it parity or not but the good old days are indeed, gone.

To say "we no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion" and "We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four" is just flat out wrong and not what I was trying to imply. We were one play away in 2005 from acheiving a goal that you say we can't reach!:rolleyes:You are simply illustrating my point. The good old days when a team could reach their goals just because of the name on the jersey or walk into a recruits home and automatically sign them on the dotted line are gone. It doesn't mean you give up your goals but you do have to live with the relalities and make the adjsutments necessary, including fan expectations. It's harder to reach your goals today because more teams are better, period. People who sit around moaning for the good old days when that wasn't the case need to enter the 21st century and stop whining because what they remember is gone, and it's gone by design! It's not that UK has fallen as much as that other schools have raised their level of competition. The SEC is tougher this year than it's ever been and becuas of that it's going to be tougher than ever. My goal and I'm sure the team's goal is to win it, get a high seed, get to the final four and win the whole d**m thing! If you want to be apathetic, that's your choice, but I would try to find something else to do with my time if that's how I was looking at this season.

[Spanish Moss]

[Gunsmoke]

If we are seeing parity then where is our slice of the pie? I don't see us as being on par with any decent team. Hell even Depaul, whom we barely beat, got blown out by Purdue. Hell when we start accepting this product placed on the floor wearing the words "KENTUCKY" on their chest then we have no longer become KENTUCKY. This is pitiful and the continuous decline is painful to watch. Oh well, maybe we can salvage our season and beat uL as they look to be on "par" with us.:rolleyes:

[ukbob]

There is some parity for sure.

However, the cream usually rises to the top. You cannot make me believe that Florida, UNC, UCLA and a couple of others to be determined will not be there late in March. They will. Those are the teams others will be talking about.

If we want them to be talking about us, then we need to get to work.....now. Not sure we have the thoroughbreds to handle it.

And I don't buy the theory we don't want or desire to be at the top. I guarantee you Smith wants to be there again. However, with the pitiful recruiting in 03 and 05 and not filling the gaps in between, we are left with what we have. That cannot continue.

I will be more than interested to see how this team progresses. I like various parts but I see gaping holes that we just cannot fill without some magic. Not saying it cannot be done, but it will take some doing.

And we are not in the mix right now of being a threat for anything and that hurts me as a UK fan to think it, especially 2 years in a row. Something has to change and soon.

Patience is in order. I have it....for now.

[blueheretic]

Spanish Moss wrote: And to add to this list, apathy has set in.

The more you lose the easier it becomes. OTS does not inspire the team or the fans. Without inspiration or hope you accept the inevitable and your goals are set lower each passing season. We no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion. We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four. It would be overachieving to win the SEC East and/or SEC Tournament Championship.

So our goal is reduced to not losing 10 games this season. If OTS does not lose 10 he will have had a great year as a coach. Call it parity or not but the good old days are indeed, gone.

Exactly. It's only 4 or 5 games into the season and the excuses and apologists are out in full bloom.

[Radiated]

blueheretic wrote: Spanish Moss wrote: And to add to this list, apathy has set in.

The more you lose the easier it becomes. OTS does not inspire the team or the fans. Without inspiration or hope you accept the inevitable and your goals are set lower each passing season. We no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion. We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four. It would be overachieving to win the SEC East and/or SEC Tournament Championship.

So our goal is reduced to not losing 10 games this season. If OTS does not lose 10 he will have had a great year as a coach. Call it parity or not but the good old days are indeed, gone.

Exactly. It's only 4 or 5 games into the season and the excuses and apologists are out in full bloom.

And the bashers are out in full bloom as well.

You're going to have it both ways no matter what. Some will never see the negatives, some you couldn't please with a championship.

[blueheretic]

Radiated wrote: blueheretic wrote: Spanish Moss wrote: And to add to this list, apathy has set in.

The more you lose the easier it becomes. OTS does not inspire the team or the fans. Without inspiration or hope you accept the inevitable and your goals are set lower each passing season. We no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion. We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four. It would be overachieving to win the SEC East and/or SEC Tournament Championship.

So our goal is reduced to not losing 10 games this season. If OTS does not lose 10 he will have had a great year as a coach. Call it parity or not but the good old days are indeed, gone.

Exactly. It's only 4 or 5 games into the season and the excuses and apologists are out in full bloom.

And the bashers are out in full bloom as well.

You're going to have it both ways no matter what. Some will never see the negatives, some you couldn't please with a championship.



I'd be happy with a championship.I thinkthat the next one is5 to 6 years and one coaching change away, though.

[NOWIS]

ukbob wrote: There is some parity for sure.

However, the cream usually rises to the top. You cannot make me believe that Florida, UNC, UCLA and a couple of others to be determined will not be there late in March. They will. Those are the teams others will be talking about.

If we want them to be talking about us, then we need to get to work.....now. Not sure we have the thoroughbreds to handle it.

And I don't buy the theory we don't want or desire to be at the top. I guarantee you Smith wants to be there again. However, with the pitiful recruiting in 03 and 05 and not filling the gaps in between, we are left with what we have. That cannot continue.

I will be more than interested to see how this team progresses. I like various parts but I see gaping holes that we just cannot fill without some magic. Not saying it cannot be done, but it will take some doing.

And we are not in the mix right now of being a threat for anything and that hurts me as a UK fan to think it, especially 2 years in a row. Something has to change and soon.

Patience is in order. I have it....for now.


I agree with you Bob, but I would add the 04 class in there with the others. It seems to be one of the most over rated teams ever

[SamKat]

It is good to see you posting again, David. Rick says you will be home in a couple of weeks now.

[Stretch]

The fallacy is that when posters like this refer to "the good old days", they are really referring to a golden age of only about four years from 1995-98 when everything came together for UK and the Cats were a Derek Anderson injury away from three NCAA titles in a row. Other than that, the Tubby Smith era compares very favorably to the last 50 years of UK basketball. Since winning the national championship in 1998, Tubby's teams finished number 8, 19, 9, 16, 1, 2 and 7 in the final AP poll. Last year was something of a downer; but we have always had a clunker season every now and then like Rupp's 13-13 season when Riley and Dampier were seniors or Joe Hall's 13-13 season when Grevey, Flynn, Guyette and Jimmy Dan were juniors.

Let's keep all this in a realistic perspective.

[Gunsmoke]

Stretch I always agree with you and this time is no different. I just see so many glaring weaknesses and what I see as deficiencies that I think will be hard to overcome such as quickness. However, if Coach Smith yanks a knot in their tails and gets them to play team offense and team defensewhile filling the gaps on D with crisp cuts on O and sharing the ball then I hope to be pleasantly surprised. I just don't see the same degree of skills with our team nor depth as I do with some other teams. But the key word here to me is team and we need to play 40 minutes on both sides of the ball as a team. It is early and all we can have in positive terms is hope. Happy Thanksgiving to you man.

[Stretch]

Thanks for the kind words 'smoke. I see you are now claiming E'Town; do you get back to Leitchfield often?

[bcbaxter10]

Stretch... Bringing back the ghosts of UK past. Very good point.

Somehow I feel that the trio of juniors, well, ok, just the two guards (Bradley and Crawford) haven't grasped the team concept, and that's why our offense is struggling. Jay Bilas (I hate to say this) had a good point the other night when he made the comment about when Crawford got the ball, the offense went dead, because he just pounded it around for a while trying to create something.

Morris, he should be the focal point of the offense. He's shown great skill when he's in the flow. Our offense needs movement. I saw DePaul run a weave out top, and it opened up a beautiful backdoor cut, because it had our guys running all over to catch up. Tubby's offense has motion, what it doesn't have is guards willing to run it, and not try to play HERO every time down the court.

Now, I'm off the soap box.

Happy Thanksgiving WCN!

[Gunsmoke]

Stretch wrote: Thanks for the kind words 'smoke. I see you are now claiming E'Town; do you get back to Leitchfield often?

Yes sir every week. I am heading that way here in a little while for Thanksgiving. Oh and you are welcome but those thoughts have rang true for many a year now. Hope that doesn't show our age!:lol:

[FatCatDaddy]

Parity has not arrived. There may be upsets, but the same teams win the NCAA Championship every year.

[audacious1]

delkfor3 wrote: Spanish Moss wrote: And to add to this list, apathy has set in.

The more you lose the easier it becomes. OTS does not inspire the team or the fans. Without inspiration or hope you accept the inevitable and your goals are set lower each passing season. We no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion. We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four. It would be overachieving to win the SEC East and/or SEC Tournament Championship.

So our goal is reduced to not losing 10 games this season. If OTS does not lose 10 he will have had a great year as a coach. Call it parity or not but the good old days are indeed, gone.

Great post Spanish Moss, it's hard to disagree with what you posted. My only disagreement with you is, I expect Final Fours and NC's, I refuse to settle for less. I want to walk around with my chest out, full of pride in my CATS. Final Fours and National Championships are our birth right, and we have every right to expect our coaches to get us there.:wildcatface
Nothing wrong with pride for your team, but "expecting" something as your "right" is a bit arrogant. After all, we're all fans rooting for our team, not players or coaches who have direct input into the outcome of these games. I believe that kind of entitlement attitude isn't healthy. Just my opinion, of course.

[trublue4life]

Spanish Moss wrote: trublue4life wrote: Spanish Moss wrote: And to add to this list, apathy has set in.

The more you lose the easier it becomes. OTS does not inspire the team or the fans. Without inspiration or hope you accept the inevitable and your goals are set lower each passing season. We no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion. We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four. It would be overachieving to win the SEC East and/or SEC Tournament Championship.

So our goal is reduced to not losing 10 games this season. If OTS does not lose 10 he will have had a great year as a coach. Call it parity or not but the good old days are indeed, gone.

To say "we no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion" and "We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four" is just flat out wrong and not what I was trying to imply. We were one play away in 2005 from acheiving a goal that you say we can't reach!:rolleyes:You are simply illustrating my point. The good old days when a team could reach their goals just because of the name on the jersey or walk into a recruits home and automatically sign them on the dotted line are gone. It doesn't mean you give up your goals but you do have to live with the relalities and make the adjsutments necessary, including fan expectations. It's harder to reach your goals today because more teams are better, period. People who sit around moaning for the good old days when that wasn't the case need to enter the 21st century and stop whining because what they remember is gone, and it's gone by design! It's not that UK has fallen as much as that other schools have raised their level of competition. The SEC is tougher this year than it's ever been and becuas of that it's going to be tougher than ever. My goal and I'm sure the team's goal is to win it, get a high seed, get to the final four and win the whole d**m thing! If you want to be apathetic, that's your choice, but I would try to find something else to do with my time if that's how I was looking at this season.
If you believe our program has not fallen you are watching a different team than I am. If you believe fans are not becoming apathetic then you need a reality check.

I will repeat, it is not realistic to think UK will make a Final Four or win a National Championship this season. Is it a goal? I guess anyone can say they have a goal. But what does that mean? My goal is for Bobby Perry to be an All American but how real is that? To fulfill a goal you have to have the tools to make it happen. UK does not have those tools so don't get too disappointed when the season ends before the big net is cut down.

I want UK to improve over last season and not lose 10 games. If Tubby Smith can keep this team from losing 10 games and finish second in the SEC East he will have had a successful coaching year.

Now let me ask you a few questions. Has Tubby Smith ever uttered a word that would inspire you or give you confidence? Do you get tired of not having marquee players on the floor, not being able to compete with teams that have athletic big men and getting beat by double digits? When is that going to end?

Parity is a fact of life and UK sliding down hill is another fact of life. I see both as being real. If I ever get to a point in my life where I accept defeat and make excuses the way you do, I will find something else to do with my time. You will not have to ask me, I'll do it on my own. I don't accept losing and I am not afraid to make a change to stop it.

I never said some fans are not becoming apathetic. I said I'm not. Obviuosly, you are. But I expect to see our team this year compete for a national championship just like they did in '05 and '03. I expect them to win a lot of games, although it will be tougher because the SEC is much tougher. If you don't recognize that then you aren't paying attention. When I look at this team I see 5, maybe 6 potential NBA players - Morris, Crawford, Jasper, Stevenson, Meeks and Carter. 4 of those 6 are freshmen and one sophomore, so their development will be the key. But, fortunately it's still November so there's time to see that development. There's also time to put together a stellar recruiting class with Patterson, Moses and Lucas (oh, that's right. you already know they have dropped us from their list. What was I thinking:rolleyes:). Also, it really doesn't matter if Tubby says anything to inspire me or not. While I can shoot the three I long ago used up my eligiblity and my knees, so I wouldn't be much help to him. What I do expect is for him to inspire his team as he has in the past. BTW, you must not have watched us play number 5 UCLA, because we had a real chance to win but made a few key and correctable mistakes down the stretch. They didn't beat us by double digits. It was a great game; sorry you missed it. And, if I ever get to the point where I can't see the positives and approach the season with hope the way you obviously can't (or won't) then that's the day I'll stop being a fan.

[trublue4life]

FatCatDaddy wrote: Parity has not arrived. There may be upsets, but the same teams win the NCAA Championship every year.
Since UK's last title 7 teams have won 9 titles, 4 having won their first in school history. One school, UConn, won 2 during that span, but had not been a traditonal power prior to this era. Last year's final four featured 3 schools that had never won a tiltle, 1 that had never been to a final four.Hardly seems like the same schools winning it every year to me.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Radiated wrote: blueheretic wrote: Spanish Moss wrote: And to add to this list, apathy has set in.

The more you lose the easier it becomes. OTS does not inspire the team or the fans. Without inspiration or hope you accept the inevitable and your goals are set lower each passing season. We no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion. We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four. It would be overachieving to win the SEC East and/or SEC Tournament Championship.

So our goal is reduced to not losing 10 games this season. If OTS does not lose 10 he will have had a great year as a coach. Call it parity or not but the good old days are indeed, gone.

Exactly. It's only 4 or 5 games into the season and the excuses and apologists are out in full bloom.

And the bashers are out in full bloom as well.

You're going to have it both ways no matter what. Some will never see the negatives, some you couldn't please with a championship.



AMEN...............there are more bashers out on here................some bash football and basketball.............whats next the womens team and coach...........

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

Guys it's not like you have to be one extreme or the other.

Yes it is ok for us expect a national title every year. That should be the expectation of fans of alot of teams. unc fans, duke fans, uconn fans...they should all expect a title every year. The teams themselves should expect a title too.

There should be powerhouses in hoops.

But, to come out and even attempt to deny that the game is full of parity these days is just plain silly. If you want try toignore the obvious as if it wasn't there then I'll no further interest in what you have to say. If you want to brush aside the fact thatduke, kansas, and unc all lost the same week we did, and to teams no more talented than who we lost to, then your opinion is void because you are obviously not keeping up with today's game.

If you wantto forget that last year's final fourincluded a team with an all-time losing record who got there by beating the "most talented" team in the country, and along with them perrenial powerhouse florida, who had previously made an astonomical TWO final fours...ever, and had previously won an astonomicalONE sec title...ever, and had a an all-time winningpercentage of an astronomical 53 %, then shame on you. Oh and let's not forget lsu last year whose all-time lousiness needs no mockery or sarcasm, but I'll give you (actual) traditional power ucla, who you could even say has been fairly spotty since wooden.

So, yeah parity is here. Do I still think we can win the title every year ? Yeah. Is that realistic ? Absolutely not.

Now getting run off the court and dropping passes and getting dunked on and saying "aloha" as soon as we said "aloha" to our chances at impressing anyone...

that's a different discussion.

[Stucat]

Radiated wrote: blueheretic wrote: Spanish Moss wrote: And to add to this list, apathy has set in.

The more you lose the easier it becomes. OTS does not inspire the team or the fans. Without inspiration or hope you accept the inevitable and your goals are set lower each passing season. We no longer have a realistic goal of being National Champion. We don't even have a realistic goal of making the Final Four. It would be overachieving to win the SEC East and/or SEC Tournament Championship.

So our goal is reduced to not losing 10 games this season. If OTS does not lose 10 he will have had a great year as a coach. Call it parity or not but the good old days are indeed, gone.

Exactly. It's only 4 or 5 games into the season and the excuses and apologists are out in full bloom.

And the bashers are out in full bloom as well.

You're going to have it both ways no matter what. Some will never see the negatives, some you couldn't please with a championship.



Radiated have you lost it? I don't know of a single UK fan that would not be happy with a championship. I live for those trophies which come along just ever so often in a history of a basketball team.

[poodoo]

Gunsmoke wrote: Stretch I always agree with you and this time is no different. I just see so many glaring weaknesses and what I see as deficiencies that I think will be hard to overcome such as quickness. However, if Coach Smith yanks a knot in their tails and gets them to play team offense and team defensewhile filling the gaps on D with crisp cuts on O and sharing the ball then I hope to be pleasantly surprised. I just don't see the same degree of skills with our team nor depth as I do with some other teams. But the key word here to me is team and we need to play 40 minutes on both sides of the ball as a team. It is early and all we can have in positive terms is hope. Happy Thanksgiving to you man.

You make many good points in this post, Gunsmoke, including that Stretch is a good poster with whom to agree. He is definitely a voice of reason. :)

Too, yes we do have some glaring weaknesses, as you say, including a lack of quickness, especially in some of our veteran players. However, as you also say, it is EARLY. Also, I so agree that the key word is TEAM and that we must play "40 minutes on both sides of the ball as a team." Personally, I choose to continue to have HOPE for this basketball team.

By the way, surely no one can argue that parity has arrived, which was the original point made in this thread. Butler's winning the NIT is a good example. Interestingly, Duke barely escaped its second loss tonight, on its home floor (to our opponent a week from Saturday, Indiana). As much as I hated to pull for Kelvin Sampson's team, I would have loved to have seen Duke lose that second game and have seen what would have happened to Duke in the polls. UK is not the only elite program experiencing some early losses, which is something we fans need to keep in mind, in my humble opinion. GO CATS!

[Gunsmoke]

Ms poodoo I am starting to feel better already after reading your post!:lol::thumbup

[UKfaninCO]

If any of you have the chance to listen to the latest episode of Matt Jones' radio show, do so. Jay Bilas has some interesting things to say about parity. He claims that parity has not arrived. What is happening is that the mid-majors are getting the same players they always have and are keeping them for 4 years. It's the majors that are declining, because they have to refresh talent a lot more often due to players jumping to the NBA. And while young players make an impact, the upperclassmen are the ones that provide the continuity and leadership to get the job done down the stretch. There are some exceptions, but for the most part I think his argument has merit.