Taylor Begley on booing and it's affect

[RV]

Here's an excerpt from his article:

The issue that I speak of is the seemingly constant barrage of negativity that seems to come from some entities in the media as well as many fans, in particular, booing.

As a player, I recall how excited, inspired and encouraged my teammates and I would be when in an opponent’s stadium, the fans were quiet or even better, turning on and booing their own. This act nullifies the concept of home field advantage. I understand fans get frustrated and want success, but nobody wants success more than the coaches and kids on the field. It is sickening to listen to some fans talk of all they have had to put up with and the punishment that has come with being a UK football fan as if being a UK fan is like incurring a painful, chronic illness or dealing with cruel and unusual punishment.

If they want to know what is tough, try dedicating 12 months of the year to football and coming up short or even being successful and not appreciated. That is what some of the young men at UK have had to deal with in the last few years. Again, why boo and hiss at college kids that have dedicated the last year of their lives to training and working to put a good product on the field for themselves, each other, and for the fans? Now is the appropriate time for legions of offended fans to respond with, “We are not booing the kids, we are booing the coaches and administration.” That is like me telling you not to take offense when I insult your mother.

At the University of Kentucky (http://kentucky.scout.com/), we are a one big family, and a tightly knit one at that. The heads of this family are the coaches and administration, and when you boo them, you boo us, period. Down of the field, a boo is a boo and nobody can tell at whom it is aimed, so it hits everyone.



http://kentucky.scout.com/2/593880.html

[VirginiaBlue]

We've debated booing ad nauseum, so I know there are some minds here that will never change: the ones who say they pay for their tickets and are entitled to express their opinion.

But it's common sense, folks. When you boo, the players don't just shrug and say "I know that's for the coaching staff, not me". Human nature says you will take it personally, not matter what your role is on the field.

[CATHYnKY]

This article by Taylor just makes all my fears of what booing does a reality. 'Nuff said.

:X

[lighthouse]

Good article. Booing should be unacceptable. Kids, coaches, and officials are doing their best.Fans should be too. For anyone, the worst place to make a mistake is in front of families, friends, and thousands of fans in the stands, or on TV.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

:X:cry:I'll just speak for myself here: there are two things I never, ever do: boo our coaches or kids and leave a game early (that alsogoes for watching long distance as I often do). IMHO those who boo are more concerned about bragging rights at local watering holes than the good of the team...GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!

[Spanish Moss]

Last Saturday I was surrounded by people booing and it was uncomfortable. It was widespread and thousands were doing it. Whether only one fan is booing or 25,000 are booing it is uncalled for at a college game.

[baldcat]

Dead silence and empty seats speak much more loudly than boos, IMHO.

I'm not calling for either, just my opinion.

[JDHoss]

You have to be a real asshat to boo the guys (coaches included) you're there to support. I nearly got into a fight in 96 at the IU game with a bozo who kept booing everytime BJ Haskins would take the field. He told me he had paid for his ticket, and it was his right to boo. I told him I had paid for mine too, and it was my right to ride his sorry butt about it. We went back and forth for a couple of minutes before I finally told him if he wanted me to shut up, he needed to come over and shut me up. At that, his wife finally reamed him a good one and threatened to leave if he didn't calm down:lol:

[Terry L. Wildcat]

JDHoss wrote: You have to be a real asshat to boo the guys (coaches included) you're there to support. I nearly got into a fight in 96 at the IU game with a bozo who kept booing everytime BJ Haskins would take the field. He told me he had paid for his ticket, and it was his right to boo. I told him I had paid for mine too, and it was my right to ride his sorry butt about it. We went back and forth for a couple of minutes before I finally told him if he wanted me to shut up, he needed to come over and shut me up. At that, his wife finally reamed him a good one and threatened to leave if he didn't calm down:lol:
;)Damn, if wish I was big enough to do that.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: :X:cry:I'll just speak for myself here: there are two things I never, ever do: boo our coaches or kids and leave a game early (that alsogoes for watching long distance as I often do). IMHO those who boo are more concerned about bragging rights at local watering holes than the good of the team...GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!
I will second that.......GO BIG BLUE:wildcatface:wildcatface:wildcatface

[Doug Hardin]

Taylor Begleywrote: Now is the appropriate time for legions of offended fans to respond with, “We are not booing the kids, we are booing the coaches and administration.” That is like me telling you not to take offense when I insult your mother.

I liked this line, and I think it's something most booing fans either don't realize or are too dumb to understand.

[poodoo]

Doug Hardin wrote: Taylor Begleywrote: Now is the appropriate time for legions of offended fans to respond with, “We are not booing the kids, we are booing the coaches and administration.” That is like me telling you not to take offense when I insult your mother.

I liked this line, and I think it's something most booing fans either don't realize or are too dumb to understand.
:thumbup, Doug. Too, I don't need to say any more. I think most everyone hereknows how I feel about fans' booing and their rationalizingtheir behavior.

[Mark Blueblood]

Can Begley's excerpt be permanently attached to the beginning of the forum section??

There are a few people that need to read it - a LOT!!

[surveyor]

All I can say is excellent article.:thumbup:beer:

[SCBlu]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: :X:cry:I'll just speak for myself here: there are two things I never, ever do: boo our coaches or kids and leave a game early (that alsogoes for watching long distance as I often do). IMHO those who boo are more concerned about bragging rights at local watering holes than the good of the team...GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!
Admittedly, I've booed in the past, but only because it's about the only way to show the administration (it's got to be VERY serious before I boo) that I'm disgusted with the direction of the team. I'm sure letters to the AD help make the point, but not like 40-50,000 fans saying, "We don't like it and we're not taking it anymore!" There has got to be a place for showing fan dissatisfaction.

[bleedbluelady]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: :X:cry:I'll just speak for myself here: there are two things I never, ever do: boo our coaches or kids and leave a game early (that alsogoes for watching long distance as I often do). IMHO those who boo are more concerned about bragging rights at local watering holes than the good of the team...GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!:thumbup:thumbup Same here.

[gomitch]

I LOVE Taylor's comments!

Please, find a way to keep this at the top of the forum!

[trublue4life]

SCBlu wrote: Terry L. Wildcat wrote: :X:cry:I'll just speak for myself here: there are two things I never, ever do: boo our coaches or kids and leave a game early (that alsogoes for watching long distance as I often do). IMHO those who boo are more concerned about bragging rights at local watering holes than the good of the team...GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!
Admittedly, I've booed in the past, but only because it's about the only way to show the administration (it's got to be VERY serious before I boo) that I'm disgusted with the direction of the team. I'm sure letters to the AD help make the point, but not like 40-50,000 fans saying, "We don't like it and we're not taking it anymore!" There has got to be a place for showing fan dissatisfaction.
That certainly can't be the case for the booing in question this year. The booing that has been specifically discussed happend at a game we won during a season that we finished 7-5. If that booing was the fans way of saying "we're not taking it anymore" then I really am confused:shrug:

[kevinlw1974]

SCBlu wrote: Terry L. Wildcat wrote: :X:cry:I'll just speak for myself here: there are two things I never, ever do: boo our coaches or kids and leave a game early (that alsogoes for watching long distance as I often do). IMHO those who boo are more concerned about bragging rights at local watering holes than the good of the team...GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!
Admittedly, I've booed in the past, but only because it's about the only way to show the administration (it's got to be VERY serious before I boo) that I'm disgusted with the direction of the team. I'm sure letters to the AD help make the point, but not like 40-50,000 fans saying, "We don't like it and we're not taking it anymore!" There has got to be a place for showing fan dissatisfaction.
There sure is...just don't go to the game. I'd much rather you not go than boo. You are hurting the kids and that just isn't right. These kids decided to wear the colors we love.

[gerntz]

Booers are there & booing because they care. People that don't show don't care IMJ. People upset by booing need tolet others express themselves freely whether they like it or not. This thought & expression police mentality needs to stop. Keep putting your personal restrictions on the fan base & you'll wind up with 10.

BTW, maybe attendance was down this year because a lot of booers stayed home. Why would you want them backcrowding up the stadium?

[kevinlw1974]

gerntz wrote: Booers are there & booing because they care. People that don't show don't care IMJ. People upset by booing need tolet others express themselves freely whether they like it or not. This thought & expression police mentality needs to stop. Keep putting your personal restrictions on the fan base & you'll wind up with 10.

BTW, maybe attendance was down this year because a lot of booers stayed home. Why would you want them backcrowding up the stadium?

So I shouldn't say I would rather they stay home than come boo? Aren't you policing my thoughts by saying I should stop? Just keep putting your personal restrictions on me and the others.

Perhaps I wasn't clear earlier. If you think I am saying the University should bann fans from booing, you are mistaken. If you think I am saying that I care more than the people booing, you are mistaken. Booing may get the attention over time, but I think it is the least effective and efficient way. I also believe it is rude to the players to do so and in poor taste. I am not telling you that you can't. I'm saying that I do not believe you should.

What I am saying is that I think it is a poor choice to express your displeasure that way. For one, it has a bad effect on players. This can affect recruiting. If the kids don't think they have our support then they may not be as effective ambassadors. Yes the same can be said if there is poor attendence, but I believe that is the lesser of two evils. Also, I think it is more effective to express your displeasure by not showing up. Nothing will get the big people's attention quicker than hitting the purse strings.

[gerntz]

kevinlw1974 wrote: gerntz wrote: Booers are there & booing because they care. People that don't show don't care IMJ. People upset by booing need tolet others express themselves freely whether they like it or not. This thought & expression police mentality needs to stop. Keep putting your personal restrictions on the fan base & you'll wind up with 10.

BTW, maybe attendance was down this year because a lot of booers stayed home. Why would you want them backcrowding up the stadium?

So I shouldn't say I would rather they stay home than come boo? Aren't you policing my thoughts by saying I should stop? Just keep putting your personal restrictions on me and the others.

Perhaps I wasn't clear earlier. If you think I am saying the University should bann fans from booing, you are mistaken. If you think I am saying that I care more than the people booing, you are mistaken. Booing may get the attention over time, but I think it is the least effective and efficient way. I also believe it is rude to the players to do so and in poor taste. I am not telling you that you can't. I'm saying that I do not believe you should.

What I am saying is that I think it is a poor choice to express your displeasure that way. For one, it has a bad effect on players. This can affect recruiting. If the kids don't think they have our support then they may not be as effective ambassadors. Yes the same can be said if there is poor attendence, but I believe that is the lesser of two evils. Also, I think it is more effective to express your displeasure by not showing up. Nothing will get the big people's attention quicker than hitting the purse strings.
No, I'm not policing your thoughts when I say attempting to control another's honest expression of emotion is wrong & needs to stop. I wasn't speaking of you specifically that I know of. DidI quote you?

I don't buythat recruiting is impacted by booing in any measurable way. Players may say that when they choose another school, but they have to say something & it sounds good & may want to dig the people asking. SoI don't take it at face value the rare times it happens. Besides, fans of all schools boo &I believe it reasonably balances out any individual impact their may be in the long run.


As I said earlier in this thread, if adult players, which is what they are,are negatively affected by booing they need to grow up. Get mad & take it out on opponents, don't crumple under booslike an emotional midget.

[kevinlw1974]

gerntz wrote:
No, I'm not policing your thoughts when I say attempting to control another's honest expression of emotion is wrong & needs to stop. I wasn't speaking of you specifically that I know of. DidI quote you?


You were responding to those of us who said we would rather the people who boo stay home. And you are contradicting yourself by saying I should not honestly express myself the way I have.

[Will Lavender]

gerntz wrote: Booers are there & booing because they care. People that don't show don't care IMJ. People upset by booing need tolet others express themselves freely whether they like it or not. This thought & expression police mentality needs to stop. Keep putting your personal restrictions on the fan base & you'll wind up with 10.

There's a logical fallacy called tu quoque. This post falls into that.

It goes, "You're wrong, so I have every right to be wrong, too."

Booing is wrong. Staying home is a different kind of wrong. Both are, in essence, wrong if you are a true fan.

JMO.

[Mountain Cat]

I don't boo our team, or the opponent. Either is just plain unsporting IMO. I also enjoy good plays by any player, and will politely clap for a great play by the opposition. It doesn't hurt anyone to show that UK fans are classy and know a good play when we see one.

I do boo a ref's bad call when seen on the replay, just to send the message that we know it was a bad call and we expect a makeup. :thumbup

[bleedbluelady]

I don't understand how people can hear repeatedly from players on howbooing negatively affects them and keep believing it doesn't. :nada: In a perfect world, maybe it shouldn't. But,NONE of us live in a perfect world and react to things as a perfect person would.

[poodoo]

bleedbluelady wrote: I don't understand how people can hear repeatedly from players on howbooing negatively affects them and keep believing it doesn't. :nada: In a perfect world, maybe it shouldn't. But,NONE of us live in a perfect world and react to things as a perfect person would.

Well-said, bleedbluelady.

Too, as I have repeatedly said, sure, the fans have the RIGHT to boo. Yet, how much they CARE about UK football, or what they care about, can be debated (and I do agree that those who attend care more than those who don't ever attend, although some may only like the atmosphere andcollege football itself).It is my opinion thatfans should care more about the feelings of their ownplayers who are putting out effort for them than about relieving their own frustrations. Too, besides being wrong to those players, in my opinion, it is also stupid to boo as the players' play can be potentially be negatively affected. The many boos certainly did not help the defense against Louisiana-Monroe, for certain, as the defense was at its worst during their last drive.

Most of all, though, your point ison target, bleedbluelady.None of us are perfect. Sure, a perfect player might be able to throw off those boos. It seems logical to me that a perfect fan might likewise be able to resist the temptation to boo when the performance on the field is so frustrating. :)No, the fans who resist the urge to boo are not perfect, either (asNO HUMANis), but the point should be taken that the argument works both ways. :)

By the way, gerntz, I am curious. Could you possibly be CatsToTheHouse (or something likethat) from the old site? I just notice that you are a mostly positive poster here, but one who seems really bothered by any discussion that fans should not boo our own players, similar to that guy on the other site. Just curious. :)

[Mark Blueblood]

gerntz wrote: Booers are there & booing because they care. People that don't show don't care IMJ. People upset by booing need tolet others express themselves freely whether they like it or not. This thought & expression police mentality needs to stop. Keep putting your personal restrictions on the fan base & you'll wind up with 10.

BTW, maybe attendance was down this year because a lot of booers stayed home. Why would you want them backcrowding up the stadium?


Gee gerntz - I don't think anyone's trying to restrict you or anyone else from acting like an ***. If you want to boo - go for it, but realize what you look and sound like when you do it.

Me? I think it's the most cowardly, classless action a fan can take.

[Levi]

Well I think that booing is something that a fan is allowed and should be allowed to do. I just think anybody that booed this team this year is a frigging idiot! These young kids have put it on the line and anybody that can't see that in their play over the season is a fool with a fools agenda.

I'll boo a player that disrespects this University or its fans but that is not, has not, nor do I think will be the case with these young men. These men have done all that we asked before the season started and more. If a fan cannot see the quality of these men and athletes that comprise this current team and hold their own selfish desires in check long enough to give them the opportunity to fight for our common dream, then I will gladly stand with the 10 that are left, if that be the number, to honor their effort.

I love Kentucky, I love this team, and I won't agree with any fan that holds their right and freedom to disrespect so high as toignore by booing the quality and determination these young men show us year round.

Wildcats I applaud your effort and determination to change all the doubting Toms.

[gerntz]

Will Lavender wrote: gerntz wrote: Booers are there & booing because they care. People that don't show don't care IMJ. People upset by booing need tolet others express themselves freely whether they like it or not. This thought & expression police mentality needs to stop. Keep putting your personal restrictions on the fan base & you'll wind up with 10.

There's a logical fallacy called tu quoque. This post falls into that.

It goes, "You're wrong, so I have every right to be wrong, too."

Booing is wrong. Staying home is a different kind of wrong. Both are, in essence, wrong if you are a true fan.

JMO.

There's a fallacy here to: You're defining a true fan as one that doesn't boo. Baloney.

[gerntz]

bleedbluelady wrote: I don't understand how people can hear repeatedly from players on howbooing negatively affects them and keep believing it doesn't. :nada: In a perfect world, maybe it shouldn't. But,NONE of us live in a perfect world and react to things as a perfect person would.

I'd like to know what is different today because of any booing. A game outcome, a recruit lost versus another gained.

I'd expect anyone to be down when chewed out/booed by a fan. I've never said otherwise. I do think players are negatively affected when a coach chews them out. I think Marine recruits are negatively affected when their sargent chews them out. No? But I thought you are supposed to learn from displeasure expressed at your performance/execution.

I agree we don't live in a perfect world which is why I accept booers with their imperfections. Apparently a lot here can't.

[Will Lavender]

gerntz wrote: Will Lavender wrote: gerntz wrote: Booers are there & booing because they care. People that don't show don't care IMJ. People upset by booing need tolet others express themselves freely whether they like it or not. This thought & expression police mentality needs to stop. Keep putting your personal restrictions on the fan base & you'll wind up with 10.

There's a logical fallacy called tu quoque. This post falls into that.

It goes, "You're wrong, so I have every right to be wrong, too."

Booing is wrong. Staying home is a different kind of wrong. Both are, in essence, wrong if you are a true fan.

JMO.

There's a fallacy here to: You're defining a true fan as one that doesn't boo. Baloney.
Absolutely I am. As is, it seems, most everybody else on this thread.

This is a KIDS' game, after all. The rules aren't the same as they are when you root for professionals.

[gerntz]

Mark Blueblood wrote: gerntz wrote: Booers are there & booing because they care. People that don't show don't care IMJ. People upset by booing need tolet others express themselves freely whether they like it or not. This thought & expression police mentality needs to stop. Keep putting your personal restrictions on the fan base & you'll wind up with 10.

BTW, maybe attendance was down this year because a lot of booers stayed home. Why would you want them backcrowding up the stadium?


Gee gerntz - I don't think anyone's trying to restrict you or anyone else from acting like an ***. If you want to boo - go for it, but realize what you look and sound like when you do it.

Me? I think it's the most cowardly, classless action a fan can take.


Who do you think is acting like an ***? How? Thanks.

[Levi]

gerntz wrote: Mark Blueblood wrote: gerntz wrote: Booers are there & booing because they care. People that don't show don't care IMJ. People upset by booing need tolet others express themselves freely whether they like it or not. This thought & expression police mentality needs to stop. Keep putting your personal restrictions on the fan base & you'll wind up with 10.

BTW, maybe attendance was down this year because a lot of booers stayed home. Why would you want them backcrowding up the stadium?


Gee gerntz - I don't think anyone's trying to restrict you or anyone else from acting like an ***. If you want to boo - go for it, but realize what you look and sound like when you do it.

Me? I think it's the most cowardly, classless action a fan can take.


Who do you think is acting like an ***? How? Thanks.



I bet you boo at little league games also, I mean hey thats your right though.

[kevinlw1974]

gerntz wrote:
I'd expect anyone to be down when chewed out/booed by a fan. I've never said otherwise. I do think players are negatively affected when a coach chews them out. I think Marine recruits are negatively affected when their sargent chews them out. No? But I thought you are supposed to learn from displeasure expressed at your performance/execution.

I agree we don't live in a perfect world which is why I accept booers with their imperfections. Apparently a lot here can't.

Since we are talking about fallacies here (I know you didn't start) I am going to pint out a glaring one here. It is called the fallacy of equivication. Criticism coming from fans, coaches and drill seargents is not the same thing. It is a matter of relationship and relative authority.

You are right, we don't live in a perfect world. However, I will always speak out against something I think is wrong. Now, I am not saying that booing is the same thing as some social injustice. After all, this is just a game we are talking about, no matter how passionately I love it. But I will tell someone I think they are wrong, just like someone will tell me. Neither you, nor they HAVE to agree with me.

Also, I won't say that people that boo are not real fans. I believe they are. I just believe they are misguided.

[poodoo]

Levi wrote: Well I think that booing is something that a fan is allowed and should be allowed to do. I just think anybody that booed this team this year is a frigging idiot! These young kids have put it on the line and anybody that can't see that in their play over the season is a fool with a fools agenda.

I'll boo a player that disrespects this University or its fans but that is not, has not, nor do I think will be the case with these young men. These men have done all that we asked before the season started and more. If a fan cannot see the quality of these men and athletes that comprise this current team and hold their own selfish desires in check long enough to give them the opportunity to fight for our common dream, then I will gladly stand with the 10 that are left, if that be the number, to honor their effort.

I love Kentucky, I love this team, and I won't agree with any fan that holds their right and freedom to disrespect so high as toignore by booing the quality and determination these young men show us year round.

Wildcats I applaud your effort and determination to change all the doubting Toms.


:thumbup, Levi. Nice tribute to this team.

Too, like you, I love the University of Kentucky and, specifically, this team. Also like you, I APPLAUD their "effort and determination to change all the doubting Toms," including their making us bowl-eligible, something those playershad actually done BEFORE that Louisiana-Monroe gameduring which so many UK fans booed. I share that fact because it is indeed APPLAUSE that those players deserved (regardless of our defensive performance thatday), not BOOS.

While fans' booing their own players is always disturbing to me, booing these particular players under these particular circumstances seems even more ungrateful to me, which seems to be your feeling, too. While I will never go as far as to say booers are not true fans, I still think those folks areessentially putting their own desire to express displeasure and relieve frustrationABOVE the good of their team and the feelings ofplayers who are putting out so much effort for them. To me, that is definitely NOT a good thing for my team, in this particular case a team that has put out a tremendous amount of effort to dig itself out of probation and get us to a bowl game. Thus, I continue to disapprove.

Further, if I badly want my team to win, it seems logical to me that I do not boo (supported by statements in the thread that the playcan be negatively affected).That relates back to myresponsethat how much such fans reallyCARE could be debated. Regardless, as always, yes, fans have the right to boo. GO CATS!

[bleedbluelady]

gerntz wrote: bleedbluelady wrote: I don't understand how people can hear repeatedly from players on howbooing negatively affects them and keep believing it doesn't. :nada: In a perfect world, maybe it shouldn't. But,NONE of us live in a perfect world and react to things as a perfect person would.

I'd like to know what is different today because of any booing. A game outcome, a recruit lost versus another gained.

I'd expect anyone to be down when chewed out/booed by a fan. I've never said otherwise. I do think players are negatively affected when a coach chews them out. I think Marine recruits are negatively affected when their Sargent chews them out. No? But I thought you are supposed to learn from displeasure expressed at your performance/execution.


A Marine being chewed out by their Sargent istotally differentthana Marine being booed byhis own citizens when he is or has beenat war. And, I would think it wouldhave totally different results.

[UK78ALUM]

This is a KIDS' game, after all. The rules aren't the same as they are when you root for professionals.

Actually, I was in agreement with you up to this comment. College football is a huge business bringing in billions of dollars a year. While we may really, really want to believe that they are amateurs and "kids", the facts say otherwise.