If you saw Kobe beat Dallas last night he still is the best in the game IMHO

[Sir Richard F. Burton]

WOW he was amazing last night.

[hoosierhateruklover]

I'm glad to see Kobe not letting his critics get to him....I can't wait til this team gets back on top where it belongs!!

[hoosierhateruklover]

I just hope the Lakers don't pick up Artest cuz then I can't say ARREST ARTEST anymore!

[MSU Cat]

I just cannot like Kobe Bryant. Look at how many shots he takes. I know, I know, the Lakers don't have anybody else. However, he's shot the ball 586 times this season. That's an average of 26 times a game. He shoots 28.9% from three. I don't think he's the best player in the game simply because his presence on the team results in more problems that it does good things. They were terrible last year and they aren't much better this year. That team lost any shot it had when they traded Shaq. Kobe needs a guy like Shaq, he is just too arrogant to see it.

If you want to talk about pure stats, compare Kobe to LeBron. James is shooting just under 49% from the floor. He shoots 35% from 3 point land, he averages 5 assists and 6.1 rebounds.

Kobe is a 43% shooter from the floor. He's under 30% on his 3 points tries. He gets 4.4 assits and about 5 boards a game.

[Aike]

MSU Cat wrote:

Kobe had a bad stretch earlier this year where he was shooting way too much and killing the team; I'll agree with you there. But if you were paying any attention at all, you would know that the Lakers just finished a 5-1 road trip and Kobe is playing MVP caliber ball.
I just cannot like Kobe Bryant. Look at how many shots he takes. I know, I know, the Lakers don't have anybody else. However, he's shot the ball 586 times this season. That's an average of 26 times a game. He shoots 28.9% from three. I don't think he's the best player in the game simply because his presence on the team results in more problems that it does good things. They were terrible last year and they aren't much better this year. That team lost any shot it had when they traded Shaq. Kobe needs a guy like Shaq, he is just too arrogant to see it.

If you want to talk about pure stats, compare Kobe to LeBron. James is shooting just under 49% from the floor. He shoots 35% from 3 point land, he averages 5 assists and 6.1 rebounds.

Kobe is a 43% shooter from the floor. He's under 30% on his 3 points tries. He gets 4.4 assits and about 5 boards a game.

[Athens2005]

and to continue the discussion . . .

62 points last night in 3 quarters.

Literally beating the Mavericks by himself.

And, those 25 FT's are not the result of a guy taking a lot of bad shots.

Kobe will undoubtedly still have his nights where he'll take a lot of poor shots; but, for the most part, it appears that he has learned his lesson from his poor stretch earlier this season, wherein Bryant struggled from the floor, and the Lakers went 3-8.

Since then, he and the Lakers have been on a tear.

[MSU Cat]

Athens2005 wrote: and to continue the discussion . . .

62 points last night in 3 quarters.

Literally beating the Mavericks by himself.

And, those 25 FT's are not the result of a guy taking a lot of bad shots.

Kobe will undoubtedly still have his nights where he'll take a lot of poor shots; but, for the most part, it appears that he has learned his lesson from his poor stretch earlier this season, wherein Bryant struggled from the floor, and the Lakers went 3-8.

Since then, he and the Lakers have been on a tear.



It wasn't just a bad stretch this season. He's done it every year. You can't argue his performance last night. He was nothing short of fantastic. I still don't think he's the best in the game. Kobe lacks a couple of things that would make him the best. I don't think he makes others around him better like Shaq or MJ did. However, last night, he was the best without question.

[Aike]

MSU Cat wrote: Athens2005 wrote: and to continue the discussion . . .

62 points last night in 3 quarters.

Literally beating the Mavericks by himself.

And, those 25 FT's are not the result of a guy taking a lot of bad shots.

Kobe will undoubtedly still have his nights where he'll take a lot of poor shots; but, for the most part, it appears that he has learned his lesson from his poor stretch earlier this season, wherein Bryant struggled from the floor, and the Lakers went 3-8.

Since then, he and the Lakers have been on a tear.



It wasn't just a bad stretch this season. He's done it every year. You can't argue his performance last night. He was nothing short of fantastic. I still don't think he's the best in the game. Kobe lacks a couple of things that would make him the best. I don't think he makes others around him better like Shaq or MJ did. However, last night, he was the best without question.


He also has three championships, despite his myriad "faults." I know, I know. It was all Shaq and Phil, etc. Answer me this, how many championships does Penny Hardaway have? How about Dwyane Wade? Those have been Shaq's other notable running mates. Ringless, right? The media was quick to anoint Dwyane Wade as better than Kobe, but he still couldn't even help Shaq get out of the Eastern Conference last year. Shaquille O'Neal has been to the Finals five times; four times he had Kobe at his side.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to criticize Dwyane Wade. I think he is a terrific player. I jus don't think that he (or anyone else) gets held under the same microscope as Kobe.

I've been watching the Lakers closely for 25 years, and by my reasoned estimation, that brief stretch of Kobe's earlier this year was his worst ever. He stunk, plain and simple. He seems to have righted the ship, not that I expect the majority of fans to give him the credit he deserves.

[MSU Cat]

Aike wrote: MSU Cat wrote: Athens2005 wrote: and to continue the discussion . . .

62 points last night in 3 quarters.

Literally beating the Mavericks by himself.

And, those 25 FT's are not the result of a guy taking a lot of bad shots.

Kobe will undoubtedly still have his nights where he'll take a lot of poor shots; but, for the most part, it appears that he has learned his lesson from his poor stretch earlier this season, wherein Bryant struggled from the floor, and the Lakers went 3-8.

Since then, he and the Lakers have been on a tear.



It wasn't just a bad stretch this season. He's done it every year. You can't argue his performance last night. He was nothing short of fantastic. I still don't think he's the best in the game. Kobe lacks a couple of things that would make him the best. I don't think he makes others around him better like Shaq or MJ did. However, last night, he was the best without question.


He also has three championships, despite his myriad "faults." I know, I know. It was all Shaq and Phil, etc. Answer me this, how many championships does Penny Hardaway have? How about Dwyane Wade? Those have been Shaq's other notable running mates. Ringless, right? The media was quick to anoint Dwyane Wade as better than Kobe, but he still couldn't even help Shaq get out of the Eastern Conference last year. Shaquille O'Neal has been to the Finals five times; four times he had Kobe at his side.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to criticize Dwyane Wade. I think he is a terrific player. I jus don't think that he (or anyone else) gets held under the same microscope as Kobe.

I've been watching the Lakers closely for 25 years, and by my reasoned estimation, that brief stretch of Kobe's earlier this year was his worst ever. He stunk, plain and simple. He seems to have righted the ship, not that I expect the majority of fans to give him the credit he deserves.
No, he's also had the help of guys such as Rick Fox, George, and Fisher. Those guys by themselves aren't great. However, they're great role players. How many championships will Kobe win without Shaq? How were they last season? Give Shaq and Wade a little time and they'll get it done. I'm not questioning his ability to win. I'm questioning whether or not he's as good as the media wants you to believe. He scores lots of points but he also takes a lot of shots. He usually doesn't shoot for a good percentage either. Will Kobe win another ring without Shaq on a team where he alone is the superstar? I doubt it.

[Aike]

MSU Cat wrote: Aike wrote: MSU Cat wrote: Athens2005 wrote: and to continue the discussion . . .

62 points last night in 3 quarters.

Literally beating the Mavericks by himself.

And, those 25 FT's are not the result of a guy taking a lot of bad shots.

Kobe will undoubtedly still have his nights where he'll take a lot of poor shots; but, for the most part, it appears that he has learned his lesson from his poor stretch earlier this season, wherein Bryant struggled from the floor, and the Lakers went 3-8.

Since then, he and the Lakers have been on a tear.



It wasn't just a bad stretch this season. He's done it every year. You can't argue his performance last night. He was nothing short of fantastic. I still don't think he's the best in the game. Kobe lacks a couple of things that would make him the best. I don't think he makes others around him better like Shaq or MJ did. However, last night, he was the best without question.


He also has three championships, despite his myriad "faults." I know, I know. It was all Shaq and Phil, etc. Answer me this, how many championships does Penny Hardaway have? How about Dwyane Wade? Those have been Shaq's other notable running mates. Ringless, right? The media was quick to anoint Dwyane Wade as better than Kobe, but he still couldn't even help Shaq get out of the Eastern Conference last year. Shaquille O'Neal has been to the Finals five times; four times he had Kobe at his side.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to criticize Dwyane Wade. I think he is a terrific player. I jus don't think that he (or anyone else) gets held under the same microscope as Kobe.

I've been watching the Lakers closely for 25 years, and by my reasoned estimation, that brief stretch of Kobe's earlier this year was his worst ever. He stunk, plain and simple. He seems to have righted the ship, not that I expect the majority of fans to give him the credit he deserves.
No, he's also had the help of guys such as Rick Fox, George, and Fisher. Those guys by themselves aren't great. However, they're great role players. How many championships will Kobe win without Shaq? How were they last season? Give Shaq and Wade a little time and they'll get it done. I'm not questioning his ability to win. I'm questioning whether or not he's as good as the media wants you to believe. He scores lots of points but he also takes a lot of shots. He usually doesn't shoot for a good percentage either. Will Kobe win another ring without Shaq on a team where he alone is the superstar? I doubt it.
The Shaq-friendly media by and large are not kind to Kobe. Most would prefer to see him fail.

I think a 27 year old Kobe has a better chance of regaining championship form than does an aging Shaq, forced to reckon with at least two superior teams in the Pistons and the Spurs.

The Lakers were a borderline playoff team last yearbefore a slew of injuries and a coaching meltdown threw them into a tailspin. The Lakers would be a playoff team were the season to end today, thanks to superior coaching, and the excellence of their star.

Kobe has been shooting a lot THIS YEAR, but even last year, with no Shaq, Kobe was only 4th in the league in FGA per game. He was outshot by Allen Iverson, Lebron James, and Tracy McGrady. Lebron James was considered the second coming, and Tracy McGrady had a legit big to throw the ball to, and they shot more than Kobe. Somehow, I just never heard as much criticism of those guys.

Kobe only shot the ball 3 more times per game than Dwyane Wade last year. Considering that Wade was part of a two headed monster, this doesn't sound like that big a number, does it?

We disagree about Kobe's potential for future success, and that's fine. That's why they go ahead and play the games. I also agree that Kobe has shot the ball too much in several games this year. My contention is that it has more to do with adjusting to a new role in the offense than it does with him being a problem player. Kobe's 26 fga per game this year is way to high, but his 22.5 fga over the Lakers current 8-2 stretch is probably about right for someone of his prowess who is the only major offensive threat on his team.

[Athens2005]

MSU Cat wrote: Athens2005 wrote: and to continue the discussion . . .

62 points last night in 3 quarters.

Literally beating the Mavericks by himself.

And, those 25 FT's are not the result of a guy taking a lot of bad shots.

Kobe will undoubtedly still have his nights where he'll take a lot of poor shots; but, for the most part, it appears that he has learned his lesson from his poor stretch earlier this season, wherein Bryant struggled from the floor, and the Lakers went 3-8.

Since then, he and the Lakers have been on a tear.



It wasn't just a bad stretch this season. He's done it every year. YI think what you're missing is that Kobe has been great this season, aside from that poor stretch in games 5 thru 15. His play is improved due to the fact that he is listening to Jackson, and for the most part, trusting his teammates more.
He played this way the first four games, then, as the team began to struggle on a Wednesday night in Minnesota, he began to fire away - and didn't quit for a month.

That was the return of last year's Kobe; but, he has responded nicely as his coach has helped him work through his kinks.
Truth be told, the turnaround came on a Thursday night in Salt Lake City, when Kobe played poorly, but forced overtime with 2 FT's, and then fouled out. Lamar Odom took over in the overtime with Kobe on the bench, and it apparently helped Kobe see that others on the team could pull out a victory.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the past, prior to last season. While last season was poor by #8's standards, I do not agree that he has always been that way.
Sure, Kobe had nights, or short stretches where he tried to be a one-man show; but, he always came around at play-off time, and helped lead the team to 3 straight championships.

People will argue that it was his selfishness that cost them the 2004 championship; and while he did not play well, I would debate people on this until their death that horrendous officiating combined with a fatigued Shaq had as much to do with that series loss as anything that Kobe did wrong.
If you disagree with me on the officiating, I'd like to note that the league instituted a rule change that off-season, based upon the fact that players were being too physical on the perimeter. According to Mark Cuban, he was the one who approached the league about the rule change, and cited the Pistons' abuse of Bryant as Exhibit A.

Anyway, people can talk and talk. I'll talk and watch. I highly anticipate that Kobe will see significant success over the next 5 - 10 years.
If he doesn't, then the "overrated" tag will be applied, and depending on what happens exactly, it may fit.

Meanwhile, the Lakers have the sixth best record in the Western conference, have won 8 of 10 games; and . . .

Lebron James has never made the play-offs.