An Unscientific Analysis of the Game

[bret1555]

I have not really looked at the box scores yet, but I just wanted to record some of my gut reactions on the latest installment of the Big Brother vs. Little Brother game:

1) Jodie Meeks - Wow! I really thought it would take until February for Meeks to make this sort of contribution to the team. He has been pressing a little and struggling with his shot, but he definitely got it done this game. 18 points and solid defense. . . Great effort.

2) Seniors come up big. . . At least 66.6% of them. While Bobby Perry was strangely quiet (perhaps some lingering effects from being headbutted last week?), Woo and Sheray stepped up big, playing great defense in the second half & filling some of the void left behind by Randolph Morris who was in fould trouble.

3) Speaking of Foul Trouble. . . This might have been the most picky officiating I have seen as a UK fan. While the coaches & commentators discussed how consistently the game was called, I just don't agree. If Morris can get a fould call while attempting to front David Padgett & Perry Stevenson can get a ridiculous hand-check call 25 feet from the basket, there is NO way every front line player on the court shouldn't have fouled out. I would love to see Lighthouse's report on the officiating.

4) Ramel Bradley - One word. . . Moxie!

Some thoughts only distantly related to the actual game.

1) I was disappointed in the commentary team of Lundquist & Packer. While I usually expect Packer to be boorish and a bit of an imbecile, Lundquist just let me down. It was painfully obvious that he did not do his research for this game & I have come to expect more from the man I consider one of the top 3 play by play men in college sports.

2) Mark Story is just not a good journalist. When I open the Lexington paper after a big game, I expect analysis and in-depth coverage. Story's incessant complaining over the freshman media policy, his dead-horse beating about the offense, and his overall penchant for trying too hard to get the one-liner make his articles seem chippy and banal.

[ukbob]

:thumbup:thumbup

[Will Lavender]

Good call about Story.

It's chic for message board posters to relentlessly bash journalists, but there's good reason for that in the case of Kentucky's sporswriters: I know of quite a few posters who can outwrite, outwit, and outanalyze both Story and Clay.

Kentucky has very few good sportswriters. I don't know why. I think the best work that is "published" is done on the web by the guys over at TCP.

(I'll admit having a bias to the word-limited confines of a newspaper column. Internet blogging and message board posting is more free-form, and thus more honest. It's just better. You put Story on a message board, and he'd probably be better.)

[Littlemeyer]

bret1555 wrote: 1) Jodie Meeks - Wow! I really thought it would take until February for Meeks to make this sort of contribution to the team. He has been pressing a little and struggling with his shot, but he definitely got it done this game. 18 points and solid defense. . . Great effort.

I've been trying to figure out how we were able to win by 12 points with the minimal contributions from Morris. Jodie Meeks is the only reason I can muster. Best I can recall, he only forced (what I'd consider 'forced', anyway) one shot; can't remember when exactly, but he had just hit one and tried to make to make it two quickies in a row.

If he can continue to (cliche alert) let the game come to him, this type of output will become, imo, common for him. He's got too many skills for it NOT to.

Random note, since there really isn't a thread to throw this in, and this one seems like a close fit: Billy Packer spends too much time talking about what teams aren't doing, and why they should be doing something else. Just one of the reasons he's low on my list of sportscasters.

[CurlyCat]

I like to keep my analysis simple...

We have reason for hope!

And most of it lies with our terrific Freshman. Each one game me a reason to have hope and believe. KyBlueInCarolina told me weeks ago this team was the kind he liked to watch develop. And finally, I agree!

And Jodie, my goodness young man,

Incredible Big Time Game! Way to Go!

[Caveman Catfan]

The defense has been sound, but gave up way too many open threes in the first half. In the second half, UL only got a few open threes, but that might have also been because they passed on open threes due to be gun shy. UK could have sat on the bench and told the UL players to have at it from the three point arc in the first half and the percentage would have been about the same.

[RaleighCat]

Immediate Postgame Thoughts:

This game set offensive basketball back by 40 years. Both teams looked horrible for long stretches on offense. We didn't score 10 points until about 9 minutes left in the first half. Morris on the bench immediately hurts, but we started waaaaaaaay too slowly. This must improve before the heart of SEC play.

Meeks is better than Joe Crawford. There, I said it. He's a better athlete, better defender and may be a better shooter. The the word "mercurial" can't be found anywhere near Jodie's name. Step it up, Mr. Crawford. You are now in a dogfight for playing time.

Morris-to-the-NBA talk has been quiet since Saturday at 1:32 pm EST. Strange. Learn from this, Randolph. Major props to Woo for stepping into the crucible and playing well. Biggest difference in Woo's game this year- great hands.

I love Jasper at the point. He's going to be fantastic. Must develop an offensive game and better seperation from his defender. He really understands how to run a team and how to make plays on defense.

Sheray Thomas played a very good all-around game. I've been hard on him (not booing-hard, but still) and it's nice to see Thomas make plays.

Great to beat the Cards- again! Let's move on to conference play and keep improving. We're still a work in progress and will be all season. This is definitely a "one-win-at-a-time" season.

[Will Lavender]

RaleighCat wrote: Meeks is better than Joe Crawford. There, I said it. He's a better athlete, better defender and may be a better shooter. The the word "mercurial" can't be found anywhere near Jodie's name. Step it up, Mr. Crawford. You are now in a dogfight for playing time.

I wouldn't necessarily go that far, but Jodie does have something that Joe desperately needs: an instinct to attack. Joe seems always caught in this in-between world where he's trying to decide whether to pass, shoot, or drive. When he makes up his mind, he's dead-set determined to do that thing.

Jodie makes up his mind in the first instant he gets the ball what he's going to do. He's got an "idea," as my high school coach would say.

Joe still brings a lot to the table when he's on. He's a powerful rebounder, he's a better outside shooter (though his shot has looked funky for the last three games or so), and he's a better defender than Jodie right now.

But I agree that Jodie is going to be a special player, and I think what we saw on Saturday is just the tip of the iceberg. The young man has some serious talent.

Truth is, we have so few options on the offensive end we're going to need both Joe and Jodie to step up every night.

[RaleighCat]

Jodie's emergence will either spur Crawford to great heights or make him wither. I see no in-between.

[sardiscat]

I don't want to sound a sour note about UK's win, because they had a lot of players make big plays when they counted, but UK won because UL didn't hit open shots that they had all game long. From 20 feet out, UL's players couldn't have thrown the ball into the ocean Saturday. Credit UK's defense for not giving up a lot of easy points inside, but UL's outside shooting woes were strictly a function of UL's own shortcomings.

[Caveman Catfan]

RaleighCat wrote: better defender
Not yet.

[Caveman Catfan]

RaleighCat wrote: Morris-to-the-NBA talk has been quiet since Saturday at 1:32 pm EST. Strange. Learn from this, Randolph. Major props to Woo for stepping into the crucible and playing well. Biggest difference in Woo's game this year- great hands.

Woo played more of a denial game on Padgett. That was key. Morris needs to learn to shut down the entry pass, rather than simple wait to guard the man with the ball. Cannot play that way against a determined player who can pivot as well as Padgett.

[UKfaninCO]

sardiscat wrote: I don't want to sound a sour note about UK's win, because they had a lot of players make big plays when they counted, but UK won because UL didn't hit open shots that they had all game long. From 20 feet out, UL's players couldn't have thrown the ball into the ocean Saturday. Credit UK's defense for not giving up a lot of easy points inside, but UL's outside shooting woes were strictly a function of UL's own shortcomings.
But it seemed to me, from watching it, that yeah they did miss a lot of wide open shots, but it also seemed to me that the folks the were shooting it weren't their best outside shooters either. Looked like the ones that shoot really well from 3 land were being well guarded for the most part. Just my opinion from a slightly more than casual observer.

[RaleighCat]

Caveman Catfan wrote: RaleighCat wrote: better defender
Not yet.



Darn close. And one's a frosh.

[Cincy110]

I don't want to sound a sour note about UK's win, because they had a lot of players make big plays when they counted, but UK won because UL didn't hit open shots that they had all game long. From 20 feet out, UL's players couldn't have thrown the ball into the ocean Saturday. Credit UK's defense for not giving up a lot of easy points inside, but UL's outside shooting woes were strictly a function of UL's own shortcomings.
But it seemed to me, from watching it, that yeah they did miss a lot of wide open shots, but it also seemed to me that the folks the were shooting it weren't their best outside shooters either. Looked like the ones that shoot really well from 3 land were being well guarded for the most part. Just my opinion from a slightly more than casual observer.

I'll say this much, yes they missed a lot of open 3's, but at some point, you have to go away from PLAN A and move to PLAN B. They can't shoot, and why Pitino is so damn stubborn to prove that his system is the greatest, I'll never understand. UK had their best post player on the bench for close to 26 straight minutes, minus 34 seconds, and they insisted on chucking 20 ft shots. Pitino, had a great plan to get Morris in trouble and on the bench, but once they did, it seemed as if that was their only plan.

Give credit to UK for grinding and working hard to keep attacking and playing D and pushing the lead out and winning the game. But this game reminded me of the UK-UNC Great 8 game in 95. UK just kept shooting and shooting and shooting and didn't hit anything, but refused to try and work the ball down low. He just doesn't recognize when he needs to adjust during the game and make changes.

[Will Lavender]

How many times last year could we have said, "We would have won if Rajon would have hit open shots (or free throws)."

Yet I didn't see too many UK fans suggesting that our opponents were lucky to beat us.

There's no way to play the game of basketball and not give up open shots. No way. Especially on the drive-and-kick-out: players are open all the time.

But you tune your defense to stop certain things. Saturday, we wanted to stop Palacios inside; we wante dto keep Terrence Williams out of the lane.

We did both those things, and so both kids were forced to standy 22 feet from the rim and shoot.

It worked. We won.

[DCWildcat]

RaleighCat wrote: Caveman Catfan wrote: RaleighCat wrote: better defender
Not yet.



Darn close. And one's a frosh.
It is close, but I'd still give a slight edge to Crawford. While Crawford seems to have a weird nagging problem with getting caught on screens that no one else on the team does, Meeks occasionally gets confused and way out of position.

This time next year, I think Meeks will be the better defender. Hell, he might even be by the end of the season. He's faster, quicker, stronger, taller, longer...he's got every advantage over Crawford.

[Will Lavender]

DCWildcat wrote: RaleighCat wrote: Caveman Catfan wrote: RaleighCat wrote: better defender
Not yet.



Darn close. And one's a frosh.
It is close, but I'd still give a slight edge to Crawford. While Crawford seems to have a weird nagging problem with getting caught on screens that no one else on the team does, Meeks occasionally gets confused and way out of position.

This time next year, I think Meeks will be the better defender. Hell, he might even be by the end of the season. He's faster, quicker, stronger, taller, longer...he's got every advantage over Crawford.

I don't know if Jodie's stronger. Crawford is a human truck.

Earlier this year, I saw these two go against each other in practice and Joe DEMOLISHED Jodie. Repeatedly. Of course, at that point Jodie had been practicing for ten days.

But as I said, Jodie just seems to have better instincts than Joe. Joe tends to get lost a little bit in the game, and then he presses to get himself back in it. Jodie's not going to be a player who disappears too much.

He reminds me a lot of Kelenna Azubuike, but he's more explosive and is a better ball-handler. If he can hone that jumpshot the way Kelenna did his, then he's going to be very tough.

[DCWildcat]

Will Lavender wrote: DCWildcat wrote: RaleighCat wrote: Caveman Catfan wrote: RaleighCat wrote: better defender
Not yet.



Darn close. And one's a frosh.
It is close, but I'd still give a slight edge to Crawford. While Crawford seems to have a weird nagging problem with getting caught on screens that no one else on the team does, Meeks occasionally gets confused and way out of position.

This time next year, I think Meeks will be the better defender. Hell, he might even be by the end of the season. He's faster, quicker, stronger, taller, longer...he's got every advantage over Crawford.

I don't know if Jodie's stronger. Crawford is a human truck.

Earlier this year, I saw these two go against each other in practice and Joe DEMOLISHED Jodie. Repeatedly. Of course, at that point Jodie had been practicing for ten days.

But as I said, Jodie just seems to have better instincts than Joe. Joe tends to get lost a little bit in the game, and then he presses to get himself back in it. Jodie's not going to be a player who disappears too much.

He reminds me a lot of Kelenna Azubuike, but he's more explosive and is a better ball-handler. If he can hone that jumpshot the way Kelenna did his, then he's going to be very tough.

The Kelenna comparison does come to mind. The two are about the same height, both are built like Greek gods, and have freakish athleticism. Hopefully Jodie will be more successful in playing like tarzan.

[Will Lavender]

Jodie is faster and quicker than Joe. He's faster than almost everybody on the court when he takes it, including the point guards. He can sprint downcourt like few players I've seen.

Joe's not slow, but it takes him awhile to get moving. He has to position his defender in a particular way to get him off guard. Jodie doesn't need that gimmick: he can just get the ball and take it.

I'd like to see him pull up with a little jumper instead of trying to take it all the way to the basket. He's had problems getting that little floating shot to fall.

[RaleighCat]

Let me clarify slightly- I think Joe Crawford is a very good player when he wants to be- or when the mood fits him- or when the stars are aligned just right. But we're nearly 2 1/2 seasons into his UK career and I just expected more at this point.

5 pts, 0 3's, 4 rbs, 5 assts, 0 fouls in 31 minutes for JC on Saturday. In a game where Morris was on the bench, Perry was MIA and Bradley didn't shoot well, I would expect Crawford to take the reigns as an upperclassmen/former McD's AA in a rivalry game in hostile territory. Didn't happen.

Jodie Meeks played with a sense of purpose- and delivered a huge performance when we needed it most. Things I didn't see from JC as a frosh. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next couple of weeks.

[Caveman Catfan]

I think Joe has struggled mightily at times this year, on both offense and defense.

But, he logged some minutes on Saturday for a reason. I suspect that T-Will's frustrations have something to do with Joe's defense. There was a point in the second half when Joe and Jodie switched on a pick leaving Jodie to defend Williams. Crawford could be seen trying to switch back, but Williams took Meeks too far out for the switch back to occur. Williams saw the switch and then proceeded to take Meeks into the paint off of the dribble. He did not convert, but I think he got a step on Meeks.

Not saying Joe would have done better, just saying that it might be that Joe was working hard on Williams all day and his offense suffered.

[RCS]

He is much more aggressive than Kaz ever was. He has a scorers mentality. He is always looking for a shot or a drive. Not in a bad way, just that he is never just thinking that he is going to swing the ball around to the next guy like Joe sometimes gets. He has the agressive nature that neither Joe nor Kaz had. Tubby tried to get both to be more agressive; Kas simply never did, Joe has taken that to mean dribble around for 20 seconds until you can get a shot 5-7 times a game. Neither is what you want. Hopefully Joe can pick his spots better and Jodie can build on this performance. I was starting to think Jodie was getting down on himself do to his limited minutes. Glad that does not seem to be the case.

[phoenix]

RaleighCat wrote: Let me clarify slightly- I think Joe Crawford is a very good player when he wants to be- or when the mood fits him- or when the stars are aligned just right. But we're nearly 2 1/2 seasons into his UK career and I just expected more at this point.

5 pts, 0 3's, 4 rbs, 5 assts, 0 fouls in 31 minutes for JC on Saturday. In a game where Morris was on the bench, Perry was MIA and Bradley didn't shoot well, I would expect Crawford to take the reigns as an upperclassmen/former McD's AA in a rivalry game in hostile territory. Didn't happen.

Jodie Meeks played with a sense of purpose- and delivered a huge performance when we needed it most. Things I didn't see from JC as a frosh. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next couple of weeks.


Interesting thread. I am thinking Joe is pretty much doing what Tubby asks him to do out there. As for the" when he wants to be" comment, I think Joe has upped his sweat quotient considerably this season, and his line is one thing but his game time was really spent at hard labor. Watch the game again and I think you will see why he was in for 31 minutes. He and Bradley might not have gotten to toot the whistle but both those kids were really shovelling coal the whole game.

Those 4 rebounds and 5 assists were important additions to our offense.

Meeks so far has lit it up one game, and that is great, but let's just say it isn't a large body of work, and really doesn't personify his minutes in the 10 games thus far. We as fans tend to be way over the top about counting our chicks before they hatch. I am not planning on Jodie putting up 18 every game from now on. Don't expect it at all, happy ifhe does, but in the real world he will probably continue to have some problems with confidence, defensive stuff, and just generally being a freshman.

[Will Lavender]

phoenix wrote: RaleighCat wrote: Let me clarify slightly- I think Joe Crawford is a very good player when he wants to be- or when the mood fits him- or when the stars are aligned just right. But we're nearly 2 1/2 seasons into his UK career and I just expected more at this point.

5 pts, 0 3's, 4 rbs, 5 assts, 0 fouls in 31 minutes for JC on Saturday. In a game where Morris was on the bench, Perry was MIA and Bradley didn't shoot well, I would expect Crawford to take the reigns as an upperclassmen/former McD's AA in a rivalry game in hostile territory. Didn't happen.

Jodie Meeks played with a sense of purpose- and delivered a huge performance when we needed it most. Things I didn't see from JC as a frosh. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next couple of weeks.


Interesting thread. I am thinking Joe is pretty much doing what Tubby asks him to do out there. As for the" when he wants to be" comment, I think Joe has upped his sweat quotient considerably this season, and his line is one thing but his game time was really spent at hard labor. Watch the game again and I think you will see why he was in for 31 minutes. He and Bradley might not have gotten to toot the whistle but both those kids were really shovelling coal the whole game.

Those 4 rebounds and 5 assists were important additions to our offense.

Meeks so far has lit it up one game, and that is great, but let's just say it isn't a large body of work, and really doesn't personify his minutes in the 10 games thus far. We as fans tend to be way over the top about counting our chicks before they hatch. I am not planning on Jodie putting up 18 every game from now on. Don't expect it at all, happy ifhe does, but in the real world he will probably continue to have some problems with confidence, defensive stuff, and just generally being a freshman.

I pretty much agree with you.

I've seen Joe on the floor more than any other player this year. He also gets down there and bangs as much as any of our big men. He does tend to disappear a little, but you can say that about pretty much anybody.

Let me preface what I'm about to say by putting out there that I love the freshmen. Great class. Most of all, I love the way they carry themselves. None of them seem to be in love with their games. They just get out there and do their work and nothing seems to rattle them.

But I feel we overhype them a bit on the boards. I think they're more deserving of "They're going to be great"-type praise than "They are great," right now. With the exception of Porter, they've really not performed as well as I thought they would to this point in the season. I still expect wonderful things out of them all, but like phoenix says: they're freshmen, and for the most part they've played like it.

[RaleighCat]

We've played 3 major games since returning from Maui: UNC, IU, UofL. Did you realize that Joe Crawford is 0-11 from 3 in those games? He's 11-30 overall for 28 total points (half of which came against UNC).

Crawford is hustling much better, I'll give you that.He must step up and make a jump shot in big games, however. We don't need Tarzan against Chattanooga and Jane against the big boys.

As I said before my comments are driven not only by Meeks' performance, but his age and experience (compared to JC's). We've seen Morris turn the corner (90% of the way, at least) and I keep waiting for Crawford to do the same. I want Joe to breakout and become the player he has potential for. I don't want to look back and think of Derrick Hord or Roderick Rhodes when I think of Joe Crawford.

[Will Lavender]

RaleighCat wrote: We've played 3 major games since returning from Maui: UNC, IU, UofL. Did you realize that Joe Crawford is 0-11 from 3 in those games? He's 11-30 overall for 28 total points (half of which came against UNC).

I actually didn't realize that. That's terrible.

As I pointed out the other day, his shot looks funny. I saw David Hobbs in practice talking about the way they teach shooting at Kentucky. He said, "When kids come here out of high school, they get the ball right in front of their faces when they shoot it. We teach them to move the ball over [right above their right shoulder if they're right handed], so that they can see the basket."

I've noticed Joe is really exaggerrating that move over the right shoulder. It looks unnatural. I don't know if somebody has noticed a glitch in his shot and tried to correct it or I'm just seeing things, but he's really out of whack right now.

[phoenix]

He may be out of whack, but I remember that he was 40% from the 3 on his last 51 shots last season. It may be stepping up his defense has him looking for his shot a little less. Joe seems to do better when he wants the ball and is lookingto shoot it. I'm not worried yet, and as pointed out, Joe got the best point production in the face of the best competition.

[phoenix]

RaleighCat wrote: We've played 3 major games since returning from Maui: UNC, IU, UofL. Did you realize that Joe Crawford is 0-11 from 3 in those games? He's 11-30 overall for 28 total points (half of which came against UNC).

Crawford is hustling much better, I'll give you that.He must step up and make a jump shot in big games, however. We don't need Tarzan against Chattanooga and Jane against the big boys.

As I said before my comments are driven not only by Meeks' performance, but his age and experience (compared to JC's). We've seen Morris turn the corner (90% of the way, at least) and I keep waiting for Crawford to do the same. I want Joe to breakout and become the player he has potential for. I don't want to look back and think of Derrick Hord or Roderick Rhodes when I think of Joe Crawford.


Using your own point here, Crawford is 17/36 from the field, and 6/16 37% from the 3, against UNC,UCLA, and Memphis.

As Tubby has stated, players don't always have every aspect of their game, but can still make importantcontributions. We controlled the games against UL and IN and I thought Joe had good games in both. People are more worried aboutJoe's game than they probably need to be imo.

[Will Lavender]

phoenix wrote: RaleighCat wrote: We've played 3 major games since returning from Maui: UNC, IU, UofL. Did you realize that Joe Crawford is 0-11 from 3 in those games? He's 11-30 overall for 28 total points (half of which came against UNC).

Crawford is hustling much better, I'll give you that.He must step up and make a jump shot in big games, however. We don't need Tarzan against Chattanooga and Jane against the big boys.

As I said before my comments are driven not only by Meeks' performance, but his age and experience (compared to JC's). We've seen Morris turn the corner (90% of the way, at least) and I keep waiting for Crawford to do the same. I want Joe to breakout and become the player he has potential for. I don't want to look back and think of Derrick Hord or Roderick Rhodes when I think of Joe Crawford.


Using your own point here, Crawford is 17/36 from the field, and 6/16 37% from the 3, against UNC,UCLA, and Memphis.

As Tubby has stated, players don't always have every aspect of their game, but can still make importantcontributions. We controlled the games against UL and IN and I thought Joe had good games in both. People are more worried aboutJoe's game than they probably need to be imo.

I'm not really worried about him. Before the season started, I think I predicted he'd be at 13 or 14 a game. He's at close to 13, so he's not too far off.

He does have a penchant for not showing up in real big games, but I thought he did some terrific things down the stretch in the IU game, and he dished out a career-high 5 assists -- including the game-winner on that pass to Sheray -- in the UofL game. So he's still doing some things even if his shot's broke.

The reason it's a big deal, though, is because this team stinks on ice offensively. We're going through stretches where we're desperately looking for somebody to put it in the hole for us, and you'd think that guy would be Joe Crawford. It hasn't been -- or at least it hasn't been that often this season.

I think he'll be fine, but like I said above, we are such a lackluster scoring team that we're going to need Joe and Jodie to put up points for us if we have any hope of beating good teams.

[sardiscat]

"I've noticed Joe is really exaggerrating that move over the right shoulder. It looks unnatural. I don't know if somebody has noticed a glitch in his shot and tried to correct it or I'm just seeing things, but he's really out of whack right now."

His release was bad against UL. He was letting the ball roll off his fingers instead of flipping it with a good follow-through. It was particularly noticeable on the shorter shots he took. Makes all the difference in whether a shot goes inor clangs off the rim.

[RCS]

The last two games both Bradley and Crawford's shot has looked terible. Not sure why. They both missed so very open looks and missed them badly. Joe had one that hit the backboard and not the rim and Bradley missed one in the IU game that was off by several feet and catching nothing but air. Those should be our two best shooters. That is part of the reason our offense has been terrible the last two games. When your starting 2G, SF and PF can't hit the broad side of a barn it really hurts your offense. Add in the fact that Jasper doesn't shoot and you can see the problem. We have to start hitting some shots or our offense is going to suck out loud all year.