What if...

[Swimmer4uk]

I just want to see what everyone else thinks; but what do you foresee happeningshouldneither Moses nor Patterson come to UK? I'm sure the typical response will be nothing, but I have to imagine the negative posts will flourish. I think Tubby already is feeling the pressure of his recruiting decisions. But I am simply interested in what people think may or may not happen as this class we have the potential to sign, is pretty hyped.

[Will Lavender]

Swimmer4uk wrote: I just want to see what everyone else thinks; but what do you foresee happeningshouldneither Moses nor Patterson come to UK? I'm sure the typical response will be nothing, but I have to imagine the negative posts will flourish. I think Tubby already is feeling the pressure of his recruiting decisions. But I am simply interested in what people think may or may not happen as this class we have the potential to sign, is pretty hyped.

Barring a Final Four this year...

No Patrick Patterson = No Tubby Smith at UK Next Year

I've said it for months and still believe it.

[Morehead Wildcat]

Swimmer4uk wrote: I just want to see what everyone else thinks; but what do you foresee happeningshouldneither Moses nor Patterson come to UK? I'm sure the typical response will be nothing, but I have to imagine the negative posts will flourish. I think Tubby already is feeling the pressure of his recruiting decisions. But I am simply interested in what people think may or may not happen as this class we have the potential to sign, is pretty hyped.



If we were to not get Patterson or Moses, the coaching staff and team will simply move on and roll with what he have. As far as fan reactions go, im guessing it will get pretty ugly in the papers and on this board. I cant say that I wont be disgusted either but I honestly think we will get 2 of the 3 primary targets we are after, preferably Patterson and Moses. Missing out on Patterson and Moses could mean our power forward woes will be worse next year unless Stevenson beefs up and develops.

[Morehead Wildcat]

Will Lavender wrote: Swimmer4uk wrote: I just want to see what everyone else thinks; but what do you foresee happeningshouldneither Moses nor Patterson come to UK? I'm sure the typical response will be nothing, but I have to imagine the negative posts will flourish. I think Tubby already is feeling the pressure of his recruiting decisions. But I am simply interested in what people think may or may not happen as this class we have the potential to sign, is pretty hyped.

Barring a Final Four this year...

No Patrick Patterson = No Tubby Smith at UK Next Year

I've said it for months and still believe it.

Will, do you really believe missing out on Patterson will have that big of an impact?

[Will Lavender]

Morehead Wildcat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Swimmer4uk wrote: I just want to see what everyone else thinks; but what do you foresee happeningshouldneither Moses nor Patterson come to UK? I'm sure the typical response will be nothing, but I have to imagine the negative posts will flourish. I think Tubby already is feeling the pressure of his recruiting decisions. But I am simply interested in what people think may or may not happen as this class we have the potential to sign, is pretty hyped.

Barring a Final Four this year...

No Patrick Patterson = No Tubby Smith at UK Next Year

I've said it for months and still believe it.

Will, do you really believe missing out on Patterson will have that big of an impact?
It wouldn't just be Patterson, unfortunately. Patterson would be a trend that began with Kovortney Barber and continued with Brandan Wright and Tyler Hansbrough and Tyler Smith and Damion James and...

You can't win if you don't recruit. I don't care how good of a coach you are. The fact that none of these top-flight big guys want to play for UK is more than a little alarming.

[RCS]

It won't be quite that linear IMO. If we miss Patterson and Moses Tubby will still coach here next year. If Morris also goes pro, we will, however, be pretty bad. Probably bad enough for Tubby to get fired. It is not a death blow, but it may lead to Tubby's eventual end.

Of course it may not. Morris may stay, Carter and Stevenson may develop and we may just roll right along. Who knows. I will say this though. If Morris stays and if Patterson comes, this is a Final 4 team. That would be a killer team.

[audacious1]

Swimmer4uk wrote: I just want to see what everyone else thinks; but what do you foresee happeningshouldneither Moses nor Patterson come to UK? I'm sure the typical response will be nothing, but I have to imagine the negative posts will flourish. I think Tubby already is feeling the pressure of his recruiting decisions. But I am simply interested in what people think may or may not happen as this class we have the potential to sign, is pretty hyped.

I don't believe the typical response will be "nothing." Even the most ardent Tubby supporter won't be happy with the upcoming class w/o Moses, Patterson or some other highly regarded recruit. But unlike some, I don't believe that automatically means Tubby is gone. But clearly, UK isn't recruiting up to its level. This is always been my biggest complaint re: Tubby.

[RaleighCat]

RCS wrote: It won't be quite that linear IMO. If we miss Patterson and Moses Tubby will still coach here next year. If Morris also goes pro, we will, however, be pretty bad. Probably bad enough for Tubby to get fired. It is not a death blow, but it may lead to Tubby's eventual end.

That's how I see it as well.

[KapitalCat]

Will Lavender wrote: Swimmer4uk wrote: I just want to see what everyone else thinks; but what do you foresee happeningshouldneither Moses nor Patterson come to UK? I'm sure the typical response will be nothing, but I have to imagine the negative posts will flourish. I think Tubby already is feeling the pressure of his recruiting decisions. But I am simply interested in what people think may or may not happen as this class we have the potential to sign, is pretty hyped.

Barring a Final Four this year...

No Patrick Patterson = No Tubby Smith at UK Next Year

I've said it for months and still believe it.

Wow Will, I've actaully missed that prediction. Is it based upon the fact Tubby knows he needs to get to a final four soon and that PP is his best chance of getting there soon? I've always thought he HAD to get either Moses or PP, both preferably

[bret1555]

I know that he is more of a wing player, but can't A. J. Stewart play the 4? I hope this isn't necessary, but the guy is 6'8. I still feel like we are going to get Patterson.

[patpat4three]

would be really nice to have patterson moses and stewart along with williams and possibly lucas too

[alan32766]

I remember the public statements Mitch made at the end of last season. The statements were benign. " we expect ff and nc and tubby needs to get out and represent the program" I believed then and now that Mitch took Tubby to task behind the scenes and Tubby does not in reality have much room for error this year.I know Mitch got significant criticismwhen he first got here but in retrospect he has done one hell of a job. I do not see him letting the basketball program decline any more and quite frankly if next years class does not include a high profile power forward (PP) than imo we will see change. I remember Hudson being shown the door by Mitch not Brooks.Eventually Brooks asked for his resignation but Mitch mandated it. I am not sure Tubby goes but his coaching staff will be very different. Tubby may balk if this demand is made but Mitch did not back downfrom Brooks (someone Mitch obviously thinks a lot of) and he will not back downfrom Tubby. Would Tubby resign? I do not think so. I believe Tubby has too much character to leave this program in worse shape than when he took over. Of course this is all irrelevant if PP commits.

[Will Lavender]

alan32766 wrote: I remember the public statements Mitch made at the end of last season. The statements were benign. " we expect ff and nc and tubby needs to get out and represent the program" I believed then and now that Mitch took Tubby to task behind the scenes and Tubby does not in reality have much room for error this year.I know Mitch got significant criticismwhen he first got here but in retrospect he has done one hell of a job. I do not see him letting the basketball program decline any more and quite frankly if next years class does not include a high profile power forward (PP) than imo we will see change. I remember Hudson being shown the door by Mitch not Brooks.Eventually Brooks asked for his resignation but Mitch mandated it. I am not sure Tubby goes but his coaching staff will be very different. Tubby may balk if this demand is made but Mitch did not back downfrom Brooks (someone Mitch obviously thinks a lot of) and he will not back downfrom Tubby. Would Tubby resign? I do not think so. I believe Tubby has too much character to leave this program in worse shape than when he took over. Of course this is all irrelevant if PP commits.

Tubby may not have a choice in the matter.

I agree with your post, by the way. I have no qualms, if Tubby leaves, giving Mitch Barnhart freedom to hire a basketball coach. IMO Mitch has done a tremendous job, and he'll make a tremendous hire. (The hire will, ultimately, be thanks to the program. But Mitch should still get the credit for signing the man's checks. :D)

[Stretch]

Will Lavender wrote: Morehead Wildcat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Swimmer4uk wrote: I just want to see what everyone else thinks; but what do you foresee happeningshouldneither Moses nor Patterson come to UK? I'm sure the typical response will be nothing, but I have to imagine the negative posts will flourish. I think Tubby already is feeling the pressure of his recruiting decisions. But I am simply interested in what people think may or may not happen as this class we have the potential to sign, is pretty hyped.

Barring a Final Four this year...

No Patrick Patterson = No Tubby Smith at UK Next Year

I've said it for months and still believe it.

Will, do you really believe missing out on Patterson will have that big of an impact?
It wouldn't just be Patterson, unfortunately. Patterson would be a trend that began with Kovortney Barber and continued with Brandan Wright and Tyler Hansbrough and Tyler Smith and Damion James and...

You can't win if you don't recruit. I don't care how good of a coach you are. The fact that none of these top-flight big guys want to play for UK is more than a little alarming.
To state that "none of these top-flight big guys want to play for UK" is flat out untrue. Every player mentioned was recruited by hundreds of college programs including most (if not all) of the trendy "elite" schools. UK was in the final two or three for each one. If a player does not want to play for you, you don't make his final two or three out of hundreds of suitors. In recruiting, you win some and you lose some. I am sure the Michigan coaches were criticized when Joe Crawford chose Kentucky and the Georgia Tech coaches were criticized when Randolph Morris chose the Cats--and those kids turned their backs on their local schools to come all the way to Lexington. Losing coveted recruits is nothing new at UK; Coach Rupp signed Dan Issel only after the much more heralded prospect George Janky spurned the Cats and chose Dayton.

[poodoo]

Will Lavender wrote:

No Patrick Patterson = No Tubby Smith at UK Next Year

I've said it for months and still believe it.

_________

Now please don't tell THEM that with Patrick's coming to Lexington this weekend, Will. The plotting just might begin! :ggrin::ggrin::ggrin:Just joking!!! :D

[poodoo]

RCS wrote: I will say this though. If Morris stays and if Patterson comes, this is a Final 4 team. That would be a killer team.



Wouldn't it, though! Having said that, I don't think there is any way that Randolph Morris stays if he continues to playing the way he is now.

FWIW, though, I've been noticing Brandon Wright's stats, both scoring and rebounding, and thinking what this year's team would be like with only his addition at that power forward spot. Oh, I know that's water on the bridge now, but your comment certainly made me think even moreabout how good THIS team would be with that addition. In other words "What if" Wright were a part of this team!

Also, I would be willing to bet that we would not have nearly as many anti-Tubby posts if Wright were a part of this team. Tubby Smith can coach, period. His admitted weakness is his not having been able to sign a top power forward in recent years. What a difference ONE player can make in the sport of basketball!

Having said that, no, I have still NOT givein up on THIS year's team making it to a Final Four. I trust Tubby Smith's coaching that much, FWIW.

[jimlowe7]

I'll throw in just one additional thought that never seems to be discussed. UK is a much harder school academically than many schools to whom we lose recruits (major exception - Duke). Why do you think we have such a strong tutoring program? We only get to keep thetrue student athletes we recruitbecause the ones who don't go to class (or do go and come up short) are soon out ofour program.Many (not all) ofthe top recruits have survived in a high school that turns their head to such things. I believe this DOES factor into who Tubby sucessfully recruits more than we know!

[RaleighCat]

jimlowe7 wrote: I'll throw in just one additional thought that never seems to be discussed. UK is a much harder school academically than many schools to whom we lose recruits (major exception - Duke). Why do you think we have such a strong tutoring program? We only get to keep thetrue student athletes we recruitbecause the ones who don't go to class (or do go and come up short) are soon out ofour program.Many (not all) ofthe top recruits have survived in a high school that turns their head to such things. I believe this DOES factor into who Tubby sucessfully recruits more than we know!

Then why did Randolph Morris and family cite UK's academics as a reason he chose not to sign with Georgia Tech? (And they meant UK's were less demanding than Tech, BTW)

Kentucky is a state university goverened by their own internal policy and that of the SEC. I can't imagine that UK is any harder academically than Georgia, Florida, Auburn or Tennessee. I know that UGA has become extremely competitive for admissions since the Hope Scholarship starting paying for in-state tuition to Georgia residents with a B-or-better average in HS.

I'll believe the Sun 'n Fun recruiting argument long before I'll believe UK has become Vandy-North Campus.

[Swimmer4uk]

RaleighCat wrote: jimlowe7 wrote: I'll throw in just one additional thought that never seems to be discussed. UK is a much harder school academically than many schools to whom we lose recruits (major exception - Duke). Why do you think we have such a strong tutoring program? We only get to keep thetrue student athletes we recruitbecause the ones who don't go to class (or do go and come up short) are soon out ofour program.Many (not all) ofthe top recruits have survived in a high school that turns their head to such things. I believe this DOES factor into who Tubby sucessfully recruits more than we know!

Then why did Randolph Morris and family cite UK's academics as a reason he chose not to sign with Georgia Tech? (And they meant UK's were less demanding than Tech, BTW)

Kentucky is a state university goverened by their own internal policy and that of the SEC. I can't imagine that UK is any harder academically than Georgia, Florida, Auburn or Tennessee. I know that UGA has become extremely competitive for admissions since the Hope Scholarship starting paying for in-state tuition to Georgia residents with a B-or-better average in HS.

I'll believe the Sun 'n Fun recruiting argument long before I'll believe UK has become Vandy-North Campus.

Personally I have taken many classes at multiple state universities. IMO they were a dime a dozen academically. One specific department might have more involved curriculum than another, but overall, a state college is as tough as the next. Again, based off my experience

[Benj66]

disaster

[bleedbluelady]

alan32766 wrote: I remember the public statements Mitch made at the end of last season. The statements were benign. " we expect ff and nc and tubby needs to get out and represent the program" I believed then and now that Mitch took Tubby to task behind the scenes and Tubby does not in reality have much room for error this year.I know Mitch got significant criticismwhen he first got here but in retrospect he has done one hell of a job. I do not see him letting the basketball program decline any more and quite frankly if next years class does not include a high profile power forward (PP) than imo we will see change. I remember Hudson being shown the door by Mitch not Brooks.Eventually Brooks asked for his resignation but Mitch mandated it. I am not sure Tubby goes but his coaching staff will be very different. Tubby may balk if this demand is made but Mitch did not back downfrom Brooks (someone Mitch obviously thinks a lot of) and he will not back downfrom Tubby. Would Tubby resign? I do not think so. I believe Tubby has too much character to leave this program in worse shape than when he took over. Of course this is all irrelevant if PP commits.


I pretty much agree with this. I've never really understood why people say Mitch is out of touch with the pulse of the fans. He's very aware of the fans' feelings. He's also not afraid to make a tough decision if he thinks it is the right decision. All of this is just my opinion, of course.

Anyway, I'm hoping this is all irrelevant and PP is playing at UK next season. :cool:

[Will Lavender]

Stretch wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Morehead Wildcat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Swimmer4uk wrote: I just want to see what everyone else thinks; but what do you foresee happeningshouldneither Moses nor Patterson come to UK? I'm sure the typical response will be nothing, but I have to imagine the negative posts will flourish. I think Tubby already is feeling the pressure of his recruiting decisions. But I am simply interested in what people think may or may not happen as this class we have the potential to sign, is pretty hyped.

Barring a Final Four this year...

No Patrick Patterson = No Tubby Smith at UK Next Year

I've said it for months and still believe it.

Will, do you really believe missing out on Patterson will have that big of an impact?
It wouldn't just be Patterson, unfortunately. Patterson would be a trend that began with Kovortney Barber and continued with Brandan Wright and Tyler Hansbrough and Tyler Smith and Damion James and...

You can't win if you don't recruit. I don't care how good of a coach you are. The fact that none of these top-flight big guys want to play for UK is more than a little alarming.
To state that "none of these top-flight big guys want to play for UK" is flat out untrue. Every player mentioned was recruited by hundreds of college programs including most (if not all) of the trendy "elite" schools. UK was in the final two or three for each one. If a player does not want to play for you, you don't make his final two or three out of hundreds of suitors. In recruiting, you win some and you lose some. I am sure the Michigan coaches were criticized when Joe Crawford chose Kentucky and the Georgia Tech coaches were criticized when Randolph Morris chose the Cats--and those kids turned their backs on their local schools to come all the way to Lexington. Losing coveted recruits is nothing new at UK; Coach Rupp signed Dan Issel only after the much more heralded prospect George Janky spurned the Cats and chose Dayton.

If a player wants to play for you, he signs a letter of intent to play for you.

Everybody loses "coveted recruits." The extent to which UK has done it -- especially re: post players -- is unprecedented in my lifetime. This is pretty much common knowledge. Everybody from our own writers at The Cats' Pause to Dan Wetzel to Yoni Cohen to Jeff Graham have written about Kentucky's recruiting problems. I overheard SEC commentator Barry Booker outside the Gaylord Entertainment Center last year telling a Kentucky fan, "I love Tubby, but he needs some help recruiting."

[DonnieKat]

Will, allow me to be a sunshine pumper for a bit......Jai Lucas' comments on Matt Jones' blog looked very promising. I really hope we load up w/ Moses, PP and Jai. Next year will be a rebuilding year, but it would be a damn fun rebuilding year w/ that class.

[Swimmer4uk]

DonnieKat wrote: Will, allow me to be a sunshine pumper for a bit......Jai Lucas' comments on Matt Jones' blog looked very promising. I really hope we load up w/ Moses, PP and Jai. Next year will be a rebuilding year, but it would be a damn fun rebuilding year w/ that class.
I was just thinking that. He stated that he would have a better grasp of OSU as a team after their game vs KU last night. Well they got owned by 30 pts, so I guess that has to say something. Whether that makes him think they need him more than us I don't know.

[DCWildcat]

You know, every year we harp on how this year will be the most important year of Tubby's career recruiting wise. I've heard it every year since we got here. I actually believe that this year, but what needs to be recognized is this:

You must recruit well, every year, to compete. We simply cannot have the '03s and the '05s. Period. Honestly, a solid '03 or '05 class right now--nothing breathtaking, just top 15 or so with 2 top 50 recruits per class ish--would make us a top 10 basketball team. We wouldn't have to worry about our embarassing thinness at the 3 or 4, or what in the world will happen if Morris leaves.

Good teams spend their time reloading rather than rebounding. I think we need Moses and Lucas and Patterson to make this class a good one. Not a great one, just a GOOD one, the kind we should be getting every single year.

If we get them, then good job and we could compete for a national championship next year. If we don't and Morris leaves, God help us.