Question concerning Helms National Title

[KY Native in IN]

i'm sure this is ancient history, but...

i recently read somewhere, that North Carolina's Helms National Title from 1924 is counted as their 5th National Championship, or technically their first since it was '24.....now someone give me the lowdown on why UK's Helms N.T. in '33 and '54 don't count in their overall National Championship tally????

does it simply come down to the preferential treatment given to teams from the state of North Carolina in general? i know that UNC has been notorious for "digging up" old wins and claiming them in their all time win race against the Cats....

i just despise the Tarheels, i swear, it's just amazing how much disdain a person can have for a ball team....

and what is the deal on the Helms Title, anybody got any info on what it is/was? i noticed on jon scott's page that they won 7: 1933-48-49-51-54-58-78...why do all but 2 ('33 and '54) coincide with the NC's they actually got and are credited for....

if this issue has been posted before please lead me to a link....

see? told ya i was showin' my ignorance....:shrug:

[JPS]

KY Native in IN wrote:
i'm sure this is ancient history, but...

i recently read somewhere, that North Carolina's Helms National Title from 1924 is counted as their 5th National Championship, or technically their first since it was '24.....now someone give me the lowdown on why UK's Helms N.T. in '33 and '54 don't count in their overall National Championship tally????

does it simply come down to the preferential treatment given to teams from the state of North Carolina in general? i know that UNC has been notorious for "digging up" old wins and claiming them in their all time win race against the Cats....

i just despise the Tarheels, i swear, it's just amazing how much disdain a person can have for a ball team....

and what is the deal on the Helms Title, anybody got any info on what it is/was? i noticed on jon scott's page that they won 7: 1933-48-49-51-54-58-78...why do all but 2 ('33 and '54) coincide with the NC's they actually got and are credited for....

if this issue has been posted before please lead me to a link....

see? told ya i was showin' my ignorance....:shrug:

UNC's Helms title is not counted as a legitimate national championship. It's a 'mistake' that is being aggressively pushed by the UNC media relations department and a handful of dupes (read ESPN) are falling for it.

A number of nationally known sportswriters have noticed this over the years and called UNC out for it.

Some think this is an issue over banners, as UNC hangs a banner for their Helms title next to their NCAA championship banners. I personally don't think so. To me a school can hang whatever and however many banners they want to.

The issue is that some in the media (again being actively misled by UNC) have repeated claims about UNC having 5 national championships. Problem is that these same media people have never to date included Helms titles in the past with any other school except UNC. Only UNC and to a lesser extent Kansas, make much of a deal about the Helms. And certainly only UNC actively tries to misrepresent what the Helms actually is.

As far as UK is concerned, their 1933 Helms title was awarded retroactively, similar to UNC's 1924 title. [The Helms Committee, which was a group based in Los Angeles, started naming teams in the early 1940s, going back to around the 1900s.]

The 1954 Helms title was awarded to Kentucky because it was thought to be the best team that season, despite not participating in the NCAA tournament due to a rule (long since rescinded) forbidding graduate students from participating. UK's major contributors that year were graduate students because they sat out the 1952-53 season the NCAA forced UK to cancel, and then had the audacity to actually graduate on time. :cry:

Most years, the Helms committee just gave the Helms title to the NCAA champion, with some exceptions. And of course this rule of thumb didn't apply to most of the retroactively named teams since the NCAA tournament only began in 1939.

UK's last Helms title was for the 1978 team. Sometime after that, the Helms Committee stopped naming teams. I don't believe they exist anymore, although the materials are now part of the Amateur Athletic Foundation's library which is being run under Peter Uberroth.

http://www.aafla.org/

Jon

[KY Native in IN]

JPS wrote:
KY Native in IN wrote:
i'm sure this is ancient history, but...

i recently read somewhere, that North Carolina's Helms National Title from 1924 is counted as their 5th National Championship, or technically their first since it was '24.....now someone give me the lowdown on why UK's Helms N.T. in '33 and '54 don't count in their overall National Championship tally????

does it simply come down to the preferential treatment given to teams from the state of North Carolina in general? i know that UNC has been notorious for "digging up" old wins and claiming them in their all time win race against the Cats....

i just despise the Tarheels, i swear, it's just amazing how much disdain a person can have for a ball team....

and what is the deal on the Helms Title, anybody got any info on what it is/was? i noticed on jon scott's page that they won 7: 1933-48-49-51-54-58-78...why do all but 2 ('33 and '54) coincide with the NC's they actually got and are credited for....

if this issue has been posted before please lead me to a link....

see? told ya i was showin' my ignorance....:shrug:

UNC's Helms title is not counted as a legitimate national championship. It's a 'mistake' that is being aggressively pushed by the UNC media relations department and a handful of dupes (read ESPN) are falling for it.

A number of nationally known sportswriters have noticed this over the years and called UNC out for it.

Some think this is an issue over banners, as UNC hangs a banner for their Helms title next to their NCAA championship banners. I personally don't think so. To me a school can hang whatever and however many banners they want to.

The issue is that some in the media (again being actively misled by UNC) have repeated claims about UNC having 5 national championships. Problem is that these same media people have never to date included Helms titles in the past with any other school except UNC. Only UNC and to a lesser extent Kansas, make much of a deal about the Helms. And certainly only UNC actively tries to misrepresent what the Helms actually is.

As far as UK is concerned, their 1933 Helms title was awarded retroactively, similar to UNC's 1924 title. [The Helms Committee, which was a group based in Los Angeles, started naming teams in the early 1940s, going back to around the 1900s.]

The 1954 Helms title was awarded to Kentucky because it was thought to be the best team that season, despite not participating in the NCAA tournament due to a rule (long since rescinded) forbidding graduate students from participating. UK's major contributors that year were graduate students because they sat out the 1952-53 season the NCAA forced UK to cancel, and then had the audacity to actually graduate on time. :cry:

Most years, the Helms committee just gave the Helms title to the NCAA champion, with some exceptions. And of course this rule of thumb didn't apply to most of the retroactively named teams since the NCAA tournament only began in 1939.

UK's last Helms title was for the 1978 team. Sometime after that, the Helms Committee stopped naming teams. I don't believe they exist anymore, although the materials are now part of the Amateur Athletic Foundation's library which is being run under Peter Uberroth.

http://www.aafla.org/

Jon


thanks for the detailed answer and taking the time to give it :thumbup !!!!

i guess in the case of UNC, push a lie long enough and it becomes the truth....that's UNC for you....it sucks how some teams can do anything under the sun and never get one ounce of resistance and some can't breathe without NCAA sanctions.....i guess too many espn commentators have
UNC as their alma mater....thanks jon, you just increased my hate for UNC more than i thought it could be! :>

thanks again for the answers!