What have we become?

[mrmeeks]

I sat in the stands at Stegman Coliseum long after the big crowds had left. The terrible feeling that a good team won, but the best team on the floor did not. I never thought about the players not trying, nor about the coach not caring. I simply felt bad. Bad for the team, bad for the coaches, bad for the millions of UK fans that would share my dread. I also knew that the fuse had been lit. On the way home the radio announcer from 1530 (yep I can get it at night in Georgia), said a record had been set over 3,700 fans on a message board. The meltdown had begun. The Vanderbilt loss and the Georgia loss were both bad and unfortunate. It shouldn't leave the team or coaches searching for answers, it should make them more determined than ever to not let that happen again. I shared something with Jodie when he was on his way to the locker room, He said, "dad, I made a terrible mistake at the end of regulation." I said, they didn't score off of your mistake and "I would much rather you have made a bad play like this now vs. March!" You see that is where I am with this team. I KNOW they are talented and ready, just made too many mistakes at the START of the second half and throughout the game.

We came out playing like we had the lead. Problem is Georgia came out the same way and they made some VERY tough shots. Not one or two, MANY! I had a chance to speak with Coach Felton after the game. I'll bet the defeat at Alabama was all but gone this night. I told him he did a very good job with his team. I also told him somethings I won't share here. The most important thing is, EVERYONE's team will lose games that the fans and everyone else expects them to win.

I know these are message boards, but I have seen so many hateful things directed at coaches, players, family members, administrations and anyone else who wades into the water. At the end of the day, this team will be very good. I don't accept the losses, but I absolutely will not tear the team and players down.

I expect my son to carry himself the same way whether he wins or loses. Shouldn't I hold myself to those same standards? Shouldn't we all? All is not lost. Kentucky will do well this year. It is not too late. Let's see what happens on Sunday.

Sorry this is such a long post, but just wanted to let you know, the players may not read this stuff, but I know many parents present and future do. Keep that in mind.

[UKfaninCO]

Mr.Meeks,

Well said. We are fans here of what we believe is the very best basketball program in the nation. We are emtional about it, sometimes unreasonably so. It is unfortunate that the players themselves are called out that do not perform well, but it does happen. This group of freshmen are going to be very good, they do some really good things on the court and sometimes they do dumb things. That's what freshmen do and we do expect it of them. Most of the disgruntled fans are frustrated with the leadership and that can come out different ways when you have an environment such as this. We as a whole expect more. It's not so much that we lost to Georgia that has everyone up in arms or that we lost to Vandy. Sometimes good teams lose to lesser teams and we also understand that. Taken out of context, these fans can seem unreasonably hostile. Even in context some of them are hostile. But given last year and some of the mis-steps this year, it's easy to see how the fans can be upset and feel like the program is declining into obscurity. Given the rich tradition that the program has it is very alarming to see it slide that way.

I appreciate you coming here and sharing your unique point of view. Thank you for that. Tell Jodie to keep his head up we are counting on him. He has done more good than bad by a wide margin...

[Will Lavender]

Jodie should know that his play did not lose that game for us.

First, like you say, they didn't score off that turnover.

Second, we should have never been in that situation in the first place.

And finally, this team is going to do good things. There's really no doubt in my mind.

Rest assured: I'll be there Sunday, in Rupp Arena, cheering my head off.

[Littlemeyer]

Thanks for sharing a parent's perspective with us, Mr. Meeks.

I don't have all the answers. Heck, I probably don't have any of the answers. But it's no secret that last season was not one of the better seasons that UK basketball has experienced. There are some lingering emotions from that season.

The passion that is UK fandom comes with a price; that price is what you've (we've) been witnessing on this board and others the past week.

You're right: This season is FAR from over. We all knew that going into Athens and coming out with a victory would be quite the feat. The fact that we lost the way we did, coming off of the loss to Vanderbilt, and coming off the poor season (by UK standards) last season....add up to the environment we all post in currently.

We had a 17-point lead. You don't do that, in Athens, without being good. We've got to find a way to be good more consistently. I have faith that we will. :thumbup

[jvpartin]

I for one really haven't even thought about that pass. It would have never been spoke of by the fans if certain upperclassmen had just scored ONE more point. My issue really has less to do with the team and more to do with what is missing from the team.

Basically the lack of power forward and an experienced point guard.

Granted I think next year one of those issues is resolved but the forward spot may still be unresolved. That will make three years in a row.

I'll make a bet P.S. has a breakout year in his Jr. season and you can quote me on that.

Next year Meeks and co. will will be more experienced. Jasper and Porter will leave the PG spot in good hands.

I'd bet OTS spends more restless nights than I do thinking about recruiting.

The furture is bright for UK basketball if we can just add a few more pieces.

BTW one BURNING QUESTION I have for you as a recent Atlanta resident. WHERE are the basketball goals at in Gwinnett Co???

[katfever]

Let me start by thanking you for taking the time to be member here. Your son is the kind of player UK needs more of on the roster. I love his fearlessness and confidence on the court. The UK tradition has been built on unmatched success and expectations- both go hand in hand. IMO and the opinion of many other UK fans, Tubby has struggled to keep the program where it has been in the past. The basis for those concerns are well documented in other threads and there is no need to expand onit here unless you wish to do so. I fully understand your support for Tubby and your concern for your son and his future since he is on the team. However, UK fans focus on what is best for the program- not the coach or an individual player. Some think Tubby is the answer- some do not. One thing all of us can agree on is we all want UK to win. I hope you continue to post here and your opinions and insight are most welcome here anytime. :thumbup

[Josh]

I certainly appreciate you taking the time to post here, Mr. Meeks. I think it's important that there is someone on these forums who has a little bit better insight on the going-on's of the team than anybody else here, and your post is right on the money.

We should all hold ourselves to speak and act in a respectable way (the higher standard you were speaking about). We don't have to be happy with the losses, but there is a difference in being disappointed with a loss and being rude and cruel and downright ugly.

Those players and coaching staff are people, afterall. I think we often times forget what is most important in life and allow little things to bother me. We are also people, afterall. :P

I know what I'll be doing on Sunday: Cheering my head off for the Cats. And I'll continue to do so no matter the outcome.

[phoenix]

I think your message is a good one, but you also need to remember in the case of the message boards the internet is a platform for boo birds. They screech at loud volumes every time there is a loss or something they can batch about the program or the players. It is especially the nature of the KY boards due to the nature of the fan base. Probably best not to worry about these forums a whole lot. If you question what I am saying go back and look at the relatively low number of posts and posters after the wins in the winning streak earlier. Some of us post steadily over anything of interest, others wait and then their posts shoot up when there is a loss so they can attack the coach, the team, the players. It is the way it is on these message board but not throughout the fandom.

As for the pass, JMeeks has had an up and down year so far, not unusual for a freshman and common in a more complex system like Tubby's, but he has also had some nice end of game stuff, and if I remember right came up big at UL, and shooting freethrows in another tight game, and that was pretty good stuff. Looks to me like JMeeks is a pretty dependable player to have in at the end of the game. Even Michael Jordan didn't make every game winner he attempted, but he was ready to step up and try and make it happen, and was successful at least in proportion with his regular game performance. If JM can do that in the crunch, that will be fine, but so far it appears he can even exceed his average performance at the end of games, and that is a rare and valuable player. BTW, who was it that intercepted the ball in the first place? If he hadn't made THAT play he never would have had a chance to make the pass he regrets, and they may have scored that basket. It is never a player's singleplaythat loses a game, but players occassionally get a chance to win a game, and they should look at the positive and relish the opportunity. Great fun.

He and the team need to play to win, and not worry about fulfilling anybodies expectations. That is too much luggage on the court.

[catmandoo25]

Mr. Meeks, as everyone has said above, thank you for posting your insight on here.I appreciate the way Jodie carries himself on the floor and represents UK basketball.

I know I have been responsible for some of the posts critisizing players at times on this board for their performance and I should know better than that.

this probablysounds stupid, but sometimes, I'm posting things hoping they do read it and can draw some motivation from it (criticism of Morris grabbing 2 boards).:?

I see these boards as a place where I can vent in an anonymous environment so no one actually sees how crazy I really am.:lol:

this team can definitelydo some special things down the stretch and I am just sick that I have to betraveling during the game on Sunday.:thumbdown

Go cats!

[RaleighCat]

Mr. Meeks, thank you for taking the time to share your insights again. Please give Jodie our best, as he's a fine young man and player.

Let me assure you that message boards aren't the only place Cat fans are vetching. I sat at a bar on Broad Street after the game with two friends (UK grads) and their feelings echoed mine. Neither post on message boards. We ran into many fans grumbling under their breath on the way out of Stegman, and we found a couple downtown willing to share their unhappy feelings without being asked. None of us were logged onto the internet at the time.

You asked "What have we become?" I'm afraid the answer isn't crystal clear. I see many similarties to Tubby's tenure and that of Joe B. Hall's- particularly from '78-85. I see a program not reaching its potential in several areas. I see a program that's dividing the fanbase. Mostly I see a program that isn't what it should be. How this is resolved is anybody's guess.

[mrmeeks]

phoenix wrote: I think your message is a good one, but you also need to remember in the case of the message boards the internet is a platform for boo birds. They screech at loud volumes every time there is a loss or something they can batch about the program or the players. It is especially the nature of the KY boards due to the nature of the fan base. Probably best not to worry about these forums a whole lot. If you question what I am saying go back and look at the relatively low number of posts and posters after the wins in the winning streak earlier. Some of us post steadily over anything of interest, others wait and then their posts shoot up when there is a loss so they can attack the coach, the team, the players. It is the way it is on these message board but not throughout the fandom.

As for the pass, JMeeks has had an up and down year so far, not unusual for a freshman and common in a more complex system like Tubby's, but he has also had some nice end of game stuff, and if I remember right came up big at UL, and shooting freethrows in another tight game, and that was pretty good stuff. Looks to me like JMeeks is a pretty dependable player to have in at the end of the game. Even Michael Jordan didn't make every game winner he attempted, but he was ready to step up and try and make it happen, and was successful at least in proportion with his regular game performance. If JM can do that in the crunch, that will be fine, but so far it appears he can even exceed his average performance at the end of games, and that is a rare and valuable player. BTW, who was it that intercepted the ball in the first place? If he hadn't made THAT play he never would have had a chance to make the pass he regrets, and they may have scored that basket. It is never a player's singleplaythat loses a game, but players occassionally get a chance to win a game, and they should look at the positive and relish the opportunity. Great fun.

He and the team need to play to win, and not worry about fulfilling anybodies expectations. That is too much luggage on the court.


Phoenix, thanks for this note. Thanks to all the very wonderful UK fans that I have met throughout the country. I didn't even think about the steal that he had prior to that.

I really feel sorry for UT this Sunday:D

[KY Blue in Carolina]

mrmeeks wrote: I expect my son to carry himself the same way whether he wins or loses. Shouldn't I hold myself to those same standards? Shouldn't we all? All is not lost. Kentucky will do well this year. It is not too late. Let's see what happens on Sunday.

Well said, indeed. Needed saying, too.

[RxRusty]

I'll be yelling for the BIG BLUE so loud from my living room in North Augusta, SC that you'll probably be able to hear me in Rupp!

GO CATS!!!

[ukbob]

Jodie Meeks will be an All American at UK.

He is a Freeshman, still learning.

Those 2 things are what I am sure of.

Tell him to keep his head up.

[poodoo]

Mr. Meeks, bless your heart for coming on here and making this fine post. Too, I have not even thought about Jodie's pass. Further, as someone said, Jodie was the one who had made the steal, so the opportunity would not have even existed without Jodie's good play. Regardless, I love how you handled the situation with Jodie, saying that the plays in March matter so much more. How true and how lucky Jodie is to have you for a dad! :)

Personally, I just felt so sad after both losses. They were so close to winning both games. With more experience, though, as the season progresses, I think they can win those games that will matter even more. :)

Too, how GREAT they looked that first half against Georgia and have looked other times this season! That gives this fan HOPE, and, win or lose, I will love this UK basketball team and continue to pull for them, as will most UK fans. Thankfully,we have tickets for Sunday's game and will be there cheering loudly for Jodie and all the Cats! :)

Thank you, again, Mr. Meeks.

[ukwebfan]

I was there too and saw the unraveling firsthand. I also listened to the post game show on 1530 (much, much clearer than 840 btw). I too see this a little differently than most of the experts here.

It's merely a bump in the road, no doubt in my mind. We were better, they know it and we know it. It won't take a UT blowout or a buzzer beater to change my mind about this team. I see improvement, albeit very methodical-like, in the approach of this team. The bench is better and the starters are better as a unit!

We'll be ready come March, plain and simple. We always are. I know it, the players know it, coach knows it and UCONN knows it.

[Stucat]

Mr. Meeks,

Jodie has been a very high plus for our team this year. I won't engage in doom and gloom but I don't think we are yet where we want to be. Coach Smith himself said as much. He said that we are not yet where we need to be but he felt that we would be by the end of the season. It is too early for any of us to engage in "doom and gloom" but will webebe a top contender at the end of the season? Coach Smith thinks so and I trust his judgement. Time will tell.

[OldCatFan]

Jodie is one of my favorites and my kids #1 favorite player. They want him playing all the time, but of course with JC playing as he is, Jodie gets limited minutes. However, I predict that by his Junior year he will be all SEC and maybe all American by his Senior year.

[Stucat]

As far as internet message boards go Coach Rick Pitino warned his team not toread them. He said that message boards were made up of unsuccessful people "knocking" or "badmouthing" successful people. We screeched our heads and tongues off about that which I am sure he directed at the Cardinal fans who were acting pretty ugly at that time. Now that we see what Mr. Meeks has said maybe this will give us all some insight as to who we can hurt on message boards. We should all be careful about what we say.

[CARDSRTOAST]

Jodie is a fine young man that you should be proud of..I met him the first time at the Derby Classic practice in Louisville last year..He is polite and a humble young man..

We are lucky to have him as a Wildcat..He did not lose the game..We win as a team and lose as a team.Our fans are spoiled and expect perfection.It does not happen that way. Thank you for trusting UK with your Son..We are the lucky ones..

[matt57]

how can you not respect the opinion and views of a parent whose son is part of our program. thanks again for posting here mrmeeks. i'll admit that i was very frustrated and pretty much heartbroken after our second half collapse. i think the reason that we (fans) get so upset is because we do not have someone in the middle of what's going on. we often forget that the players are someone's son/brother/cousin/etc..... are we unfair at times? sure, i know i was wed night. with all that being said there are still several things that deeply concern me with were my favorite team is headed.

1- substitutions- so many times this year i've been thinking to myself. "where's jodie, porter, or stevenson." i think it's time for some of the freshmen to get more minutes. if they make mistakes fine. let's let 'em play. i still can't believe stevenson didn't play in the second half or overtime.

2- our offense- i wish i had a dollar for every 2-3 minute stretch without a fg. it's very hard to put a team away when we're not scoring. i'm no basketball guru or anything so i don't know how to fix it. but, it's frustrating.

3- recruiting- our freshmen class this year is outstanding. i'm not saying that only because mrmeeks is here. i really feel this class can be great. but, we need a big time forward. just think about how scary this team would be with wright, hansbrough, durant, or even deon thompson. we were in on all of those guys. three of em are at the same school. we have the facilities, presteige, program, and everything else. why are not pulling in a major big man?

i think those are all valid points and i also think as a fan i have a right to bring them up. i don't however have the right to dog a kid or coach. i was guilty of that wed night and feel bad about it. i'm not going to give up on my cats. i just hope the guys pull together

[Ky Man]

I can't believe that there was anyone more saddened by the loss to Georgia than the players were. I do not pretend to know just how bad they must have felt, but I know how I felt when I played and lost. Mr.Meeks you are the Father of a fine young man who will thrill all of us fans with his play in many games in the future. If there is anyone oh here that thinks he or any of the players will never make a play they wished they hadn't, then they are in some kind of dream world. But life goes forward even if you make a bad play, and if you look to the future and not dwell on a play already over, you will be fine. I hope you tell Jodie that we fans love hiim and know he will give us all he has on and off the floor and in the end...that is all you can expect from anyone is all they have. Thank you so much for spending time on here with us and giving a lot of us insight that we would never have if not for you. I know Jodie and the other Cats will get it done in March....thanks again Mr.Meeks...

[poodoo]

just think about how scary this team would be with wright, hansbrough, durant, or even deon thompson. we were in on all of those guys. three of em are at the same school. QUOTE by matt57

____________

EXACTLY, matt57! Too, that's why all the extreme anti-Tubby sentiment gets to me. Tubby is still a great coach. However, true, Tubby has not been successful in signing one of those guys, and it has really hurt us, both last season and this season thus far.Yes, this team WOULD BE "SCARY" with one of those guys added to the team.

Tubby bears responsibility for that, BUT he can still coach. This team has shown, in glimpses, what it can do WITHOUT one of those guys. So let's wait and see how this team develops this season. Tubby has developed quite a few teams as the season has progressed, developments that have occurred after some fans had been ready to fire Coach Smith and had given up on the season.

These players (and coaches, in my opinion) deserve better than some of us fans are giving them. Giving up on them and wallowing in pity and misery is not this fan's choice. Notice that Mr. Meeks sets the exampleof holding up his head high for his son. If we want our players to keep their heads high and keep working hard with hope for a successful season, shouldn't we fans be doing the same, instead of merely bad-mouthing both the head coach and the players!

Thanks again, Mr. Meeks. GO CATS!!!

[Terry L. Wildcat]

KY Blue in Carolina wrote: mrmeeks wrote: I expect my son to carry himself the same way whether he wins or loses. Shouldn't I hold myself to those same standards? Shouldn't we all? All is not lost. Kentucky will do well this year. It is not too late. Let's see what happens on Sunday.

Well said, indeed. Needed saying, too.

:cool:mrmeeks, I'm sixty and a Wildcat fan from birth so it's a rare treat to have your insight on The Nation...I hope to meet you in Catlanta and I'm so proud your son wears The Blue and White...GO BIG BLUE!!!

[mrmeeks]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: KY Blue in Carolina wrote: mrmeeks wrote: I expect my son to carry himself the same way whether he wins or loses. Shouldn't I hold myself to those same standards? Shouldn't we all? All is not lost. Kentucky will do well this year. It is not too late. Let's see what happens on Sunday.

Well said, indeed. Needed saying, too.

:cool:mrmeeks, I'm sixty and a Wildcat fan from birth so it's a rare treat to have your insight on The Nation...I hope to meet you in Catlanta and I'm so proud your son wears The Blue and White...GO BIG BLUE!!!

Terry, we'll just have to figure something out. I am at every Norcross Basketball game. If you are in the area, come check them out. I would love to chat with you. Most of the folks from Norcross can tell you who I am (usually the one with UK stuff on:D)

[wildcatdon]

matt57,that is one of the big problems right now....we didnt get any of those guys..and we havent gotten guys like that for some time...that is tubby's doing...he needs to get it done on the recruiting end..

[bleedbluelady]

Thank you Mr. Meeks. I will be in the stands on Sunday. Cheering on my beloved Cats just like I do ever chance I get! :cool:

[bluegrassking]

Mr Meeks, you want and seem to feel comfortableabout giving your perspective and what I think is even more special isyou appear intrested in our thoughts and feelings on the program. That is really gratifying to a big Kentucky fan I hope as many parents as feel comfortable doing so participate in the dialog or just say hey.

It has to take a thick hide (and maybe something stiffer than Dr Pepper)I'm sure, to go to the adulation/bitching/discussion capital of the world-the internet.I guessgoing into it you and even the kids know to the fan it's about the team and the program and when they are critical, impatient, harsh, unkind, judgemental, or even just blindly stupid that is what they are directing all that stuff at.

Remind Jodie that stumbling helps us to learn to stay on our feet.

Also tell him thateven someone you might call a"boobird" saidhe hasn't come across a Kentucky fan yet that didn't believe he is a big part of the solution at UK.

And don't think too ill of the "boobird", we are often the kind of fan that would take a former player in if he came to our door, just at a recollection of his face and effort at UK would share the best of what he had and talk of good times past and yet to come. A close friend long missed would be treated no diffrently.

Thanks in advance for being a part of the future of UK Basketball.

[bluegrassking]

I will say what will probably be a a hugely unpopular thing, it will not be the 1st time and won't likely be the last. As always I feel strongly that I am right in this, no matter how unpopular and will make every attempt to explain myself.

Gaining or retaining Jodie Meeks, Patrick Patterson, Jai Lucus, and Randolph Morris are notin my opinion worth keeping or supporting Tubby Smith. Love em, want em, need em but not for more Tubbyball. I don't see it as a package but if it is then so be it.

Now, hear me out. I feel this way because it is based on my perspective on Tubby as our coach the only logical position to take. My position may be wrong but my choice is correct, from my point of view.

I would not take Dale Brown even if he came with Shaq, Chris Jackson, and Stanley Roberts. History has proven me not to be offbase.

People threw around taking Thuggins in a package with Odom and his Burger Boy posse. Again...declined.

Eddie Sutton with Chris Mills, Shawn Kemp, and Rex Chapman...sorry, drive through...come again.

Freaking Mike Brey with LeBron, Garnett,and Tim Duncan...hmmm...no...still no.

Tim Floyd with Superman, The Green Lantern, even with Yoda at the point..NO

Rick Barnes with back to back #1 classes-I thought about itand..no but with Superman, Green Lantern and Yoda at point yes.

I will get back behind Orlando's magic if he gets Superman, Green Lantern, and Yoda at the point if and only IF he signs a top notch, ready to play today, scoring, rebounding, physical prescence having,athletic, power forward.

[WildcatRick]

mrmeeks wrote: Terry L. Wildcat wrote: KY Blue in Carolina wrote: mrmeeks wrote: I expect my son to carry himself the same way whether he wins or loses. Shouldn't I hold myself to those same standards? Shouldn't we all? All is not lost. Kentucky will do well this year. It is not too late. Let's see what happens on Sunday.

Well said, indeed. Needed saying, too.

:cool:mrmeeks, I'm sixty and a Wildcat fan from birth so it's a rare treat to have your insight on The Nation...I hope to meet you in Catlanta and I'm so proud your son wears The Blue and White...GO BIG BLUE!!!

Terry, we'll just have to figure something out. I am at every Norcross Basketball game. If you are in the area, come check them out. I would love to chat with you. Most of the folks from Norcross can tell you who I am (usually the one with UK stuff on:D)



Orestes, I'll bring my man Terry and find you. You survived me introducing poodoo and blueheretic to you, so its easy sailing from here on out.;)Terry is good people and as true blue as they come.

[SamKat]

Mr. Meeks, I will answer your question for me- a long time Kentucky Basketball fan during my 74 years on this earth. I am a "very spoiled" part of a "very spoiled" fan base. I was only a school yard player and was definitely not of the caliber to make a UK basketball team, as Jodie has done.

Kentucky Basketball has been my major entertainment package and it has brought me through many cold winter nights. I was privileged to go down the Glory Road with the great Coach Adolph Rupp. I was there consistently with Joe B. Hall,Eddie Sutton, Rick Pitino, and Tubby Smith. I have enjoyed so many National Championships and so many All American performancesatUK. There is an undeniable tradition which is largelyignored by the national media today. Each UK player has, necessarily, been a "blue-chipper" in my eyes.

Wildcatrick tells that you have survived meeting blueheretic and, to me, that shows you are tough. Dave has been the most honest of WCN posters in my opinion. In Rick's telling us of the introductions and in your wonderful posting on WCN, it is so obvious that you are a gentleman of class.

I'm reminded of Gene DeFilipo's story to us fans when he substituted on C. M. Newton's radio program once. Gene, an associate AD to C.M., had also been a football assistant to the great Bear Bryant at Alabama. A journalist had commented and queried the coach. "Coach Bryant, you often use the word class in describing an acquaintance. How do you define that?" The great coach thought and said something like, "As a matter of fact, I can't define the word, but I can sure tell you that I recognize it when I see it." I am not great by any means but I, as others here recognize your class.

Hopefully, Rick can convince you to come by with your family to the Rathskeller at the Renaissance Marriott Downtown during the SEC so that many of us can meet you.

:thumbupTo Jodie Meeks and his family and to the Kentucky Wildcats!