How did we get to this point?

[delkfor3]

It's the day after UK defeats Utah for the National Championship, we are riding high, an incredible 3 years just ended. We still have the sight of Cameron Mills falling to the floor in tears, fresh in our minds, most of us feel the best is yet to come. Tubby is being compaired to AdolphRupp, by national media.

Fast forward 2007, what the heck happened here?:shrug:How did we get to where we are today?

[Will Lavender]

Simply not enough studs.

Since 1999, Kentucky has signed 2 top 15 players.

[matt57]

RECRUITING

plain and simple.....

[Morehead Wildcat]

Will Lavender wrote: Simply not enough studs.

Since 1999, Kentucky has signed 2 top 15 players.


I usually enjoy your posts Will and while agree with most of them, you are wrong about this one.

Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Marvin Stone, Rashaad Carruth, Joe Crawford, Randolph Morris were all in the top 15 of at least some recruiting rankings. The bad thing is only 4 of those worked out for Tubby. And 2 of them almost didnt.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

matt57 wrote: RECRUITING

plain and simple.....

Sad and true.

[Will Lavender]

Morehead Wildcat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Simply not enough studs.

Since 1999, Kentucky has signed 2 top 15 players.


I usually enjoy your posts Will and while agree with most of them, you are wrong about this one.

Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Marvin Stone, Rashaad Carruth, Joe Crawford, Randolph Morris were all in the top 15 of at least some recruiting rankings. The bad thing is only 4 of those worked out for Tubby. And 2 of them almost didnt.

I'm starting my count after the 1999 recruiting year, so Stone and Bogans ('99) and Prince ('98) wouldn't count.

I counted Morris and Crawford. That's my 2.

Rashaad Carruth wasn't a top 15 player, I don't believe. He was a McDonald's All-American, but I believe he was in the 20s according to Rivals.

I could be wrong, though. It's happened before.

[FatCatDaddy]

Will Lavender wrote: Morehead Wildcat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Simply not enough studs.

Since 1999, Kentucky has signed 2 top 15 players.


I usually enjoy your posts Will and while agree with most of them, you are wrong about this one.

Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Marvin Stone, Rashaad Carruth, Joe Crawford, Randolph Morris were all in the top 15 of at least some recruiting rankings. The bad thing is only 4 of those worked out for Tubby. And 2 of them almost didnt.

I'm starting my count after the 1999 recruiting year, so Stone and Bogans ('99) and Prince ('98) wouldn't count.

I counted Morris and Crawford. That's my 2.

Rashaad Carruth wasn't a top 15 player, I don't believe. He was a McDonald's All-American, but I believe he was in the 20s according to Rivals.

I could be wrong, though. It's happened before.



Carruth was around 28.

[ukbob]

The problems, as I see them,are definitely recruiting, stubbornnessand player management.

Tubby and his unremarkable staff have blundered way too many recruiting years. And it goes beyond getting the Top 10 type player. I am totally convinced we could be winning a lot more games and be in real contention for titles if Smith would recruit players that FIT HIS STYLE. They may be ranked 50-100 but if they are the ones that can play in this system, then we have seen before what we could do.

But we strayed and it is costing us. When we did strike out we settled for projects. That isn't all bad to take a flyer on a kid because of potential as long as you have a couple of impact players recruited with him. For example: Mike Williams has real potential. Put him in a class with Patterson, Moses, Lucasand Stewart and it is a very good gamble with little or no downside at all. Take away the big studs and it reads like 2003 or 2005 somewhat.

Stubbornness.....his loyalty to inept actions from Assistants regarding recruiting has hurt us a lot, IMO. After 2003, we should have brought in a dynamic Assistant who was eager to learn, yet had good inroads to recruiting certain areas of the USA. IMO, the few recruits Rigot and Hansen have been responsible for do not make up for the lost ones, the missed contacts, the confusion on evaluation and laziness that recruiting analysts have been reporting on for the last few years.

Player management....Kind of goes back to recruiting. We got good players but some were not good people and that frustrated Tubby and fans alike. It permeated the program and kept the term Team Turmoil alive and well. Tubby either could not eliminate it or did not know how. Now we all wonder when a player throws a small tantrum, pouts on the bench or makes a comment or 2 if it isn't TT part 3. We cannot continue this.

Pretty much a chain reaction of things, IMO. And saying it is just recruiting does not get to the heart of it, IMO.

Just my opinion.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

So then the answer is Tubby gets the studs but doesn't develop them?

Our senior class last season was Moss, LeMaster, Sparks and Stockton

The newcomers were Carter, Sims and Adam Willams

This years seniros are Perry, Thomas and Woo and Alleyne would have with that class.



Gentlemen, this isn't the days of Mercer, Epps, Mash, Antoine, Anderson, Shep, Padgett, Turner etc etc etc.

Look at those classes I listed- that's Miami of Ohio talent with a few top recruits mixed in and those (Crawford, Bradley and Morris) haven't excelled like McD's AA's should.



I call it a mixture of bad recruiting, recruiting decisions, player develpment and coaching- simple as that. We've now lost 18 games in 1.5 seasons and probably are looking at 23-26 losses in 2 seasons- Doherty got canned for alot less than that and look where they are now. Look where all the elites are now- Kansas, Duke, UNC, UCLA, all are still on top and all these have been to the title game the past 5-6 years, but we pay our coach way more.

[jdeasy]

We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.



We are where we are as a basketball program because of one man. That man is tubby smith.



We have have 3 AD's during the tuby tenure. We have had 2 University Presidents. We have had numerous assistant coachs. We have have too amny players to even count. There has been one constant over the last 10 years of UK basketball. That constant is tubby smith. Wherever we are, good or bad, rests solely on tubby's shoulders.

[Rockober]

jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.



We are where we are as a basketball program because of one man. That man is tubby smith.



We have have 3 AD's during the tuby tenure. We have had 2 University Presidents. We have had numerous assistant coachs. We have have too amny players to even count. There has been one constant over the last 10 years of UK basketball. That constant is tubby smith. Wherever we are, good or bad, rests solely on tubby's shoulders.





Why bring up the race card.:thumbdownWhat black coach was more capable in 97? I think CM hired who he thought was best for the job and he really screwed up and hired a coach who won a championship.:rolleyes:

[delkfor3]

Will Lavender wrote: Simply not enough studs.

Since 1999, Kentucky has signed 2 top 15 players.

It's that, but it has been so much more, endless transfers, 10 and 13 loss seasons, team turmoils, style of play, being so in love with defense, that our offence ends up suffering. It never ends.:cry:

[ukbob]

jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.













Your level of ridiculousness has reached new heights. :thumbdown

I guess Tubby won it all in 98 with Pitino's players but had it been any other black coach, they would have gotten the credit.

Besides, when did Lute Olsen turn black since he was offered first?

[Stucat]

Well for good or bad I think Tubby is going to be here for a long time. I hope that things will work out and that UK won't be relegated to mediocrity but who knows?

[Will Lavender]

jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.

:thumbdown

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

ukbob wrote: jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.













Your level of ridiculousness has reached new heights. :thumbdown

I guess Tubby won it all in 98 with Pitino's players but had it been any other black coach, they would have gotten the credit.

Besides, when did Lute Olsen turn black since he was offered first?




98 doesn't have any bearing on 07 and in 06 and in 07 we aren't even a top-30 team anymore- that's all that matters.

Tubby DID win it with Rick's recruits and Tubby DID do a great job- the question is how has Tubby done with HIS kids? The answer is a couple of excellent years, a few mediocre years and several horrible years. He insisted on playing his son and we lost 10+ games 3 consecutive years. We now have senior classes that Ole Miss wouldn't even produce (Sparks, LeMaster, Stockton, Moss)



Boys, 98 is gone and the present and future doesn't look good.

[ukbob]

JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: ukbob wrote: jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.













Your level of ridiculousness has reached new heights. :thumbdown

I guess Tubby won it all in 98 with Pitino's players but had it been any other black coach, they would have gotten the credit.

Besides, when did Lute Olsen turn black since he was offered first?




98 doesn't have any bearing on 07 and in 06 and in 07 we aren't even a top-30 team anymore- that's all that matters.

Tubby DID win it with Rick's recruits and Tubby DID do a great job- the question is how has Tubby done with HIS kids? The answer is a couple of excellent years, a few mediocre years and several horrible years. He insisted on playing his son and we lost 10+ games 3 consecutive years. We now have senior classes that Ole Miss wouldn't even produce (Sparks, LeMaster, Stockton, Moss)



Boys, 98 is gone and the present and future doesn't look good.

Your rant has nothing to do with his post and the response to it.

[Art Vandelay]

ukbob wrote: jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.













Your level of ridiculousness has reached new heights. :thumbdown

I guess Tubby won it all in 98 with Pitino's players but had it been any other black coach, they would have gotten the credit.

Besides, when did Lute Olsen turn black since he was offered first?


style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"http://www.cincypost.com/sports/1997/koch051397.html

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"Tubby was Newton's first and only choice. I've heard him say it in interviews and it is in confirmed in this article as well as many others. Olsen was offered before Eddie Sutton and again before Pitino.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"I thought Tubby was a good hire at the time. I thought he was a great hire after his first year. Since then there have been peaks and valleys, but still an overall steady decline. Say what you want, but it's been a long time since we were in such a bad place as a program. JD is right, Tubby Smith is the one constant over the last ten years.

[ukbob]

Art Vandelay wrote: ukbob wrote: jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.













Your level of ridiculousness has reached new heights. :thumbdown

I guess Tubby won it all in 98 with Pitino's players but had it been any other black coach, they would have gotten the credit.

Besides, when did Lute Olsen turn black since he was offered first?


style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"http://www.cincypost.com/sports/1997/koch051397.html

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"Tubby was Newton's first and only choice. I've heard him say it in interviews and it is in confirmed in this article as well as many others. Olsen was offered before Eddie Sutton and again before Pitino.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"I thought Tubby was a good hire at the time. I thought he was a great hire after his first year. Since then there have been peaks and valleys, but still an overall steady decline. Say what you want, but it's been a long time since we were in such a bad place as a program. JD is right, Tubby Smith is the one constant over the last ten years.


I perhaps stand corrected on the Olsen issue, but his post was about hiring a black coach, not a debate on the merits of where we are now. Therefore, my response.

[Rockober]

Art Vandelay wrote: ukbob wrote: jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.













Your level of ridiculousness has reached new heights. :thumbdown

I guess Tubby won it all in 98 with Pitino's players but had it been any other black coach, they would have gotten the credit.

Besides, when did Lute Olsen turn black since he was offered first?


style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"http://www.cincypost.com/sports/1997/koch051397.html

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"Tubby was Newton's first and only choice. I've heard him say it in interviews and it is in confirmed in this article as well as many others. Olsen was offered before Eddie Sutton and again before Pitino.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"I thought Tubby was a good hire at the time. I thought he was a great hire after his first year. Since then there have been peaks and valleys, but still an overall steady decline. Say what you want, but it's been a long time since we were in such a bad place as a program. JD is right, Tubby Smith is the one constant over the last ten years.



He brought up the race card.JD claims he was never a good hire and that there were better coaches available-black or white. He claims he wasn't capable which is a idiotic statement since he won a national championship.

I still want to know what black coach was more capable in 97?:shrug:Its been a while but who were the leading candidates back then? Donovan was extremely green and not ready at the time.

[Will Lavender]

The whole debate about Tubby being the right man is just a colossal waste of time.

He was hired. He's the coach. Has been for 9 years.

What are we going to do about it?

Talking about this stuff is like talking about a bad break-up. We can bemoan it, call her the wrong girl, thank our lucky stars for the times we had -- whatever.

But nothing we do is going to turn back the clock.

I can't tell others what to do, obviously, and I'm sure this thread is going to spiral out into 3 or 4 pages, but MAN. I just don't see what good it does to talk about something (1) that we don't know the whole story on and (2) that happened almost a decade ago.

[KapitalCat]

Will Lavender wrote: Simply not enough studs.

Since 1999, Kentucky has signed 2 top 15 players.


Bingo..and some recruiting mistakes, Carruth as an example. This program has not been the same since Hayes and Kaz left. I think the current crop of freshman are in that mold and that speaks positive for the future, but Tubby has to follow up with another good class.

[ukbob]

Will Lavender wrote: The whole debate about Tubby being the right man is just a colossal waste of time.

He was hired. He's the coach. Has been for 9 years.

What are we going to do about it?

Talking about this stuff is like talking about a bad break-up. We can bemoan it, call her the wrong girl, thank our lucky stars for the times we had -- whatever.

But nothing we do is going to turn back the clock.

I can't tell others what to do, obviously, and I'm sure this thread is going to spiral out into 3 or 4 pages, but MAN. I just don't see what good it does to talk about something (1) that we don't know the whole story on and (2) that happened almost a decade ago.


Yep. In a nutshell.

[Art Vandelay]

Will Lavender wrote: The whole debate about Tubby being the right man is just a colossal waste of time.

He was hired. He's the coach. Has been for 9 years.

What are we going to do about it?

Talking about this stuff is like talking about a bad break-up. We can bemoan it, call her the wrong girl, thank our lucky stars for the times we had -- whatever.

But nothing we do is going to turn back the clock.

I can't tell others what to do, obviously, and I'm sure this thread is going to spiral out into 3 or 4 pages, but MAN. I just don't see what good it does to talk about something (1) that we don't know the whole story on and (2) that happened almost a decade ago.

All debates on here are a waste of time. We could all do something more worthwhile. We aren't curing cancer or pursuing peace in the middle east. We're talking about our beloved Cats, good and bad.

I've never second guessed CM for hiring Tubby. I thought he was a good hire and I was ecstatic after '98. Since then, and not just since last year, I've come to the conclusion that he's not right for UK. He's not consistent, he doesn't seem to be driven to excel. He shies from the spotlight. This just isn't his gig.

As far as the whole story of the hiring, we do know it. Tubby sas Newton's first and only choice. Pitino recommended Ralph Willard, some others liked Donovan. CM has said publicly many times the only call he made was to Tubby. I believe him. If we're going to discuss it, I just want to get it right.

[Will Lavender]

Art Vandelay wrote: Will Lavender wrote: The whole debate about Tubby being the right man is just a colossal waste of time.

He was hired. He's the coach. Has been for 9 years.

What are we going to do about it?

Talking about this stuff is like talking about a bad break-up. We can bemoan it, call her the wrong girl, thank our lucky stars for the times we had -- whatever.

But nothing we do is going to turn back the clock.

I can't tell others what to do, obviously, and I'm sure this thread is going to spiral out into 3 or 4 pages, but MAN. I just don't see what good it does to talk about something (1) that we don't know the whole story on and (2) that happened almost a decade ago.

All debates on here are a waste of time. We could all do something more worthwhile. We aren't curing cancer or pursuing peace in the middle east. We're talking about our beloved Cats, good and bad.


True.

But there are levels of waste. Some topics are more useless than others.

Fot instance, topics that discuss the present and future state of the program are interesting. To me anyway. In that case, we're discussing something that's empirical: it's out there.

But in the case of the whole Olsen/Willard/Tubby/Newton/Pitino mythology, we're just battling over might-have-beens -- things that we've heard from other sources; and we're battling over things that are already in the history books.

I could say that Ralph Willard, even though he's a great basketball mind, would have been a huge failure as UK coach. His time at Pitt would seem to prove that.

But I don't know. UK might have erected a statue for Willard outside the doors of Rupp after he won back to back to back to back national championships.

Who knows.

What we DO know is this:

Tubby Smith was hired. It seemed, in the summer of 1998, a perfect fit.

And then.

[blueheretic]

We hired Tubby Smith. Tubby got fat and lazy after the '98 Championship. He got satisfied.

[bluegrassking]

JD, I have to say logically that even if Tubby was hired purely because he was black that does nothing to describe how we got here. Like you say "He could have hired a capable black coach".

So whyhaving the hell-bent intent ofhiring a black coachis desirable or not isn't the subject, therefore race is not at issue in the conversation,it serves to only add emotion to the debate and fog the real question of how we got here.

Your point seems to be that there were enough known or at least knowable concerns and tell-tale indicators to eliminate Tubby from the hiring process that were ignored or possibly that he lacked the qualifications to be considered.

A conversation digging into that might be useful, as the possible candidates are thrown around. Finger pointing is meaningless but understanding what went wrong and why is are some of the best tools you'll ever have.

With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight I can say bad hire but I thought he was qualified at the time and still don't see it as some hiring fiasco but as more a decent try that didn't work out.

[Doc]

Too late. We are mediocre and have been for some time.

[bluegrassking]

The primary reason (though not the only) we got to where we are as a program,in my opinion, is becauseour coachhad a bad blueprint for the program that was by luck, skill, or both-beautifully executed at precisely the right time.

I'm not even sure it started out that way, I think it may havestarted out as a vison that might resemble Tom Izzo's centering around physical play, keeping people out of the paint, andrebounding but enhanced by loading up with stud talent that would get out in transition at every opportunity.

I think he honestly intended to pretty much look like a tougher better rebounding version of Pitino's teams on offense, while backing off the press and going into the BLD to shut down the inside.

Not an especially unworkable or definably undesirable plan. Opinions will vary if it is the best plan but that will always be the case.

A championship run marked by success of his playcalling and 'gut' substitutionsin crucial moments and digging out of holes bolstered his confidence in relying on his direction ingames. Tubby talks defense but he fancies himself like an NFL offensive co-ordinator, a master playcaller. The game becomes a chessmatch against the other coach in his mind. Tubbybelieved and many pundits agreed, in a chessmatch Tubby Smith was as good as any.

Tubby soon became more and more comfortable and enamored with possesion basketball, he wanted his teams to play to his strength, it was only natural. Plus, it might even finally be true that Tubby is one of the 5 best coaches...at the chessgame...at winningpossesion games. Even that may be fading now but I digress.

Fresh to the job and with the momentum of a program coming off 3 straight championship gamesTubby had loaded up ontalent between McDonald's All-Americans and 4 year guys that showed starter potential.The hitch was theroster cyclehad been building towards what would become...

Team Turmoil. There are ego's, dissatisfaction with riggedly defined roles, disciplene problems, internal strife between players and staff, with losses the advisement the honeymoon periodwas very much over and so external pressure from all fronts-UKAA, media, boosters, and fans, and the players wanted (some I guess to the point of mutiny) more freedom and opportunity to showcase their skills.

Tubby's contract is winding down and he is just a few years after a championship, feeling heat. Since the championship the team has pretty much gradully slipped a notch each year and now had lost three 10 games for 3 years straight for the first time ever.

Recruiting had cooled off some, the freshman class was a small but had an undersized Parade type power forward that wasn't a scorer but could be pluged right in and reserve guard. The sophmores had not been highly ranked to the chagrin of most followers but had surprised and were contributing heavily. Not bad but two years without a big time recruit or emerging star is dangerous territory at UK andnot one of those recruitsbeing a sure fire SEC caliber starter, raised eyebrows from coast to coast.

Tubby had sworn that there would be no repeat of what had just passed.He meant that but when Tubby looked at how things had gotten of track, he made some decisions that made a questionable situation, untenable at UK.

Tubby decided he trusted Tubby and if he was going down it was going to all be on him and not bunch of some wanna be NBA, snotnosed kids, that wearstheir pants at half-mast. Tubby decided that if he could, hewould make every game a chessmatch and that being the case the need for the so called "star" players was greatly reduced. The players more than anything needed to follow instruction, be athletic enough to play his defense, and keep their noses clean. Not unnaturally, Tubby circled the wagons.

At this point Tubby is on the last of his talent cupboard. He has a couple of seniors former All-American Bogans and Marquis Estil a unhearlded native son post player who had played wellto work with and has only a collection of projectedElite levelbench and roleplayers to surround Bogans with.

Three straight 10 loss seasons, a diminishing talent pool with no help on the way, and ateam that implodedmeans expectations are very low and it looks like UK may have to punt on Tubby. Kentucky isn't picked to have a bye in the SEC tourny much less win a championship. There is rumbling that Kentucky may not make the NCAA's.

Instead UK has a great regular season and behind Bogans and Tubby's diamonds in the roughs, UK plays Tubbyball into a regional final where UK's star plays through an ankle injury, making a heroic effort that exceeded his season average but the team runs into a three point machine with a triple douple posting slasher and goes home but does so in a far diffrent circumstance than expected.

Tubby is vindicated to himself, to the media, to the UKAA, and even to most of the fans. Some continue to be alarmed at both the recruits and play on the court but they are in the minority.

It is about here Tubby goes all in, with his "me and five warm bodies" philosophy. He has guards to get by the next season with but the frontcourt saving Hayes is depleted. Tubby thumbing his nose at convention or striking out on other targets ends up with a class with 2 project centers, an unknown forward from Canada, the group was headlined by the NC Mr Basketball who was regarded as a marginal prospect.

The doubters strangely continued to grow. They complained about the recruiting, they screamed about the offense and the lack thereof, they grumbled about how long it had been since a Final Four and how other programs were passing us by. We were winning who cares? was the general sentiment.

The season went much better than recruiting despite only seeing meaningful time from Fitch, Barbour (a big time juco), Hayes, Daniel, Hawkins, and an inexperienced sophmore Kelenna Azubuike. Again Tubby's critics were rebuffed by a great regular season using Tubbyball and looking at that thin cast devoid of a star player,it was hard not to say that if and when Tubby gets some talent UK will be a force.

The thing was we really need some talent-FAST. The upcoming sophmores aren't ready to contribute and with going six deep the last year nobody was exactly waiting in the wings. Tubby had Hayes and Azubuike to build around but after that it was...sparse he did have a transfer he could pencil in at point guard. Tubby went against the grain and went after the big fish but then he had to his last class was a complete flop and their were too many starters to replaceas well ashe had sworn to never let the depth run down again.

Tubby hit paydirt!!! The #1 Class, he got a center to replace Daniels, a 2 guard to replace Fitch, and a big time point guard to replace Hawkinsor understudy Sparks. All three were burger boys. He also brought in an another athletic point guard prospect and had another guard coming in after some prep time. Guard heavy-sure but there is a whole class of devloping frintcourt player that will compliment the All-American center.

Tubby leads his young team to another great regular season. the 10 loss monkey is way off his back. This team goes to another regional final-The 2nd in just three years and is an overtime away from the Final Four. Now it is believed that Tubby must just continue to build around his new core. The replacement for Hayes that ruined the perfection of the #1 classis believed to be the missing element from a Champion. Still, it was widely thought a team just weak in one position that has gone so far with so many returning will be a threat to win the championship.

However, recruiting failed to turn up the power forward again and the soon to be juniors provided very little, and Morris failed to be drafted. UK was 2 starters away again and their was no relief to be found on the bench. Still, this is college basketball and the guard is king. UK it was thought would be OK.

The season started and the team struggled but early news that Morris would return. The team need only stay afloat and they would have the piece back. They did but the addition of Morris failed to bolster the team's performance. UK for the 1st time since probation was in danger of not making the NCAA's but a win at UT and a couple of wins in the SEC solidified the bubble and they drew an 8 seed. A 10 loss season had again reared it's head and there was no miracle perfromance. EarlyOut32.

The floor had dropped again! Expectations now were high but another season had melted into Turmoil and an always thin and unbalanced roster had been exposed to the light of day Tubbyball is routinely unable to adjust and the team is blown out on multiple occasions. Everything Tubby had sworn would never happen again had resurfaced and bigger and badder than ever.

The critics and doubters were growing at a insane rate. The heatwas turning back up. Recruiting targets were being missed left and right and players were leaving the team. All the doubts thought vanquished were back. Tubbyball is questioned unendingly. Tubby promises changes to ensure no repeat of this but his staff remains intact and Tubbyball seems to be in place, and a solidly rated class is brought in but there is no "star" and there is no year 1 power forward.

At the AD's instruction a new S&C coach is brought in but other than that no visable changes are made other than the departures of the 2 year starting all america point guard to the NBA, one of the project centers, and a thought to be promising juco PF-This is widely sold as "addition by subtraction".

The season starts, the freshmen surprise and impress, and their is a core of talented juniors to lead them. UK wins it's 1st few games and their is hope all is well that the last year was a speedbump then UK played some top competion and it wasn't pretty. The problems that seemed resolved in the early going from the prior season seemed to stil be in place.

Meanwhile, recruiting is off to an inauspicious start, most of the top 100 are gone and the team has many holes to fill, especially still the power forward. The early period ends with a borderline top 100 forward and a project 7 footer. Fans and the media are jumping off the wagon at the speed of light.

UK goes on a 11 game winning streak against UofL, IU, and an assortment of cupcakes. Some fans screamed fools gold but others believe that the team is molding and has corrected the issues. The competion went up a grade but still against a team that UK was expected to handle but the usual problems presented themselves.

Reason was called for the Vandy game was a speed bump-BAM! Blew a 17 point lead to an unranked UGA. The usual problems.


Long story short increasingly possesion focused basketball that strangled the offense and the players individual abilities while decreasing focus on recruiting to the point of cinsistently no longer being a viable championship contender. Compounded by decreasing attractiveness to the program for elite talent.

[RP_McMurphy]

For all the X's and O's knowledge you do and don't have as a coach. You need talent to win as a major college coach these days. Tubby hasn't done nearly enough in that area. Some of that could be blamed on bad luck. However it always seems Tubby is either a day late in his planning or has no plan when it comes to recruiting. I myself have seen it close up as he failed to have a assitant coach or himself at a major AAU event in summer of 04. It was shocking not seeing Kentucky represented at a event that had top ten talent at it.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

Will Lavender wrote: jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.

:thumbdown

:thumbdown:thumbdown

[delkfor3]

jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.









Please don't turn this thread, into a thread about race. Race has nothing to do with our current situation.:thumbdown

[Stretch]

We're 16-5. Time to shut down this failed basketball program and take up tiddly winks.

[TransientAlum]

Bluegrass King, nice synopsis of what I remember and felt during the past few year.

Here's a link from ESPN's Mark Schlabach

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=2741913


Regardless of what happens, never ever stop cheering for your school or supporting them during the season. It is your school, have some pride. Tiddly winks? ...

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

TransientAlum wrote:


Regardless of what happens, never ever stop cheering for your school or supporting them during the season. It is your school, have some pride. Tiddly winks? ...


pretty sure that was sarcastic....right Stretch ??

[Madiblue]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: jd&ez wrote: We got here simply because we hired a coach that was not and is not up to the task. CM wanted to hire a black coach. He could have hired a capable black coach, instead, he hired tubby.

:thumbdown

:thumbdown:thumbdown
If we ever have an awards thread, please add this to the nominations for the most assinine quote ever!

[TransientAlum]

CatFanInTheBathtub wrote: TransientAlum wrote:


Regardless of what happens, never ever stop cheering for your school or supporting them during the season. It is your school, have some pride. Tiddly winks? ...


pretty sure that was sarcastic....right Stretch ??
If it was, my apologies.

[bret1555]

I don't remember hearing or reading anything about Barrnhart forcing Tubby to hire a new S & C coach. . . Do you know something I don't, Bluegrassking?

[jaken]

Two pages of mostly ##### and nobody has even gotten close as to why Tubby was the choice. This isn't rocket science, guys....the answer has been public knowledge for....well, about 10 years. Do some research!:shrug: Hint....it wasn't because he was Black, Green, Purple or a bug-eyed Alien (might have a question about that one)!:D

[BlueBloodCatFan]

we all rant and rave about Tubby but I'm inclined to believe that maybe ...just maybe he is overworked.....why else on Gods green earth would we still have trouble inbounding the ball...do these assistants do anything or see anything that needs changed....besides their work ethic? Everytime I look at Hobbs when we call a timeout it looks as if he just woke up....is it just me?

[poodoo]

Stretch wrote: We're 16-5. Time to shut down this failed basketball program and take up tiddly winks.

Thanks for the reminder, Stretch. :DToo, yes, Stretch was being sarcastic in his second sentence. :DGO CATS!

[poodoo]

KapitalCat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Simply not enough studs.

Since 1999, Kentucky has signed 2 top 15 players.


Bingo..and some recruiting mistakes, Carruth as an example. This program has not been the same since Hayes and Kaz left. I think the current crop of freshman are in that mold and that speaks positive for the future, but Tubby has to follow up with another good class.


Good posts. Too, that recruiting mistake of thinking he could help the very talented Rashad Carruth his freshmen year, when he obviously could not, probably affected Tubby's recruiting the next year (our current senior class), as many have mentioned.

Regardless, Kapital Cat hits the nail on the head. The current crop of freshmen bodes WELL for the future, IF Tubby follows up with another good class this year.

So the future is NOT ALL BLEAK under Tubby, period,as some would like for us to believe. We DO NEED to get some of these folks we are badly wanting to sign in April. Then the future looks BRIGHT again. :)At least that is my opinion on the matter.:)

[BrassowFan]

poodoo wrote: Regardless, Kapital Cat hits the nail on the head. The current crop of freshmen bodes WELL for the future, IF Tubby follows up with another good class this year.


That's a huge IF considering his track record.