Our Starting PG assists

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Let's not even show the points per game average on the STARTING PG that averaged 2.5 assists for his CAREER. The talent decline began RIGHT THERE.

You won't find one worse. I checked WAYYYY back.


Saul Smith 2.5/363

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Chris Duhon chose Duke over UK and SAID it was because he didn't want to play behind Saul Smith. Chris Duhon went on the be on the the top 10 assist leaders in NCAA history........
And UK fans wonder why we are where we are today. It had to start somewhere, and this is where it started:

In his senior season, Duhon averaged 10 points, 6 assists, 2.2 steals and 4.1 rebounds per game, leading Duke to another Final Four (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Four) in the process. Duhon became Duke's all-time steals leader (with 300), led Duke in minutes played (4,813), was second in assists (819), and had one of Duke's top assists to turnover ratios as well. In Duhon's four years, Duke compiled a 123-21 record, making Duhon the second winningest player in ACC history, behind Duke's Shane Battier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Battier) (131 wins). He helped the Blue Devils win three ACC Championships. Duhon was a finalist for the 2004 Wooden Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooden_Award), the Naismith Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith_Award), and Rupp Trophy awards. He left as one of the most complete guards in college basketball, being the only Atlantic Coast Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Coast_Conference) player to score 1,200 points, 800 assists, 475 rebounds, 300 steals, and 125 three point shots in his four year college career.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Disclaimer: Saul himself IS NOT to blame. He's a kid that played hard, giving everything he had. HOWEVER, OTS' decision to bring Saul here is to blame. Shame on coach Smith for allowing our recruiting to continuously slip since the championship year.

[TrueblueCATfan]

SAUL SMITH had MORE heart than any of these guys do...............

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

SAUL SMITH had MORE heart than any of these guys do...............

________________________________

Was Saul Smith the top talent that UK could recruit ??? EMPHATICALLY: NO.

That's the quetion. Saul's heart is not in question.

[BrassowFan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: SAUL SMITH had MORE heart than any of these guys do...............

________________________________

Was Saul Smith the top talent that UK could recruit ??? EMPHATICALLY: NO.

That's the quetion. Saul's heart is not in question.

The same could be said of Cameron Mills and a whole host of other players that contributed at UK. The only difference is that they weren't the son of the coach.

IMO, Saul received a bad rap from UK fans. If someone is to blame in that situation, it's his father, but the fact is that kid practiced and played hard for UK despite the way he was treated... not because of it.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

I don't know how many times I can say it, NOBODY is questioning Saul Smith. The question is: why Saul Smith when Chris Duhon wanted to come here? Was Saul Smith the beste we could get to be PG at The University of Kentucky? Why are we where we are today?

POOR RECRUITING and APATHY from the man in charge ever since he won a championship. PERIOD.

[BrassowFan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: I don't know how many times I can say it, NOBODY is questioning Saul Smith. The question is: why Saul Smith when Chris Duhon wanted to come here? Was Saul Smith the beste we could get to be PG at The University of Kentucky? Why are we where we are today?

POOR RECRUITING and APATHY from the man in charge ever since he won a championship. PERIOD.

I'm not challenging the words in your post, I do think that Saul probably did cost us a recruit, the point I'm making is that it was Saul who was getting booed in Rupp when it wasn't his fault.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

I hear ya.. I never booed Saul, would never boo a player. There a line you don't cross, and that's it.

[TrueblueCATfan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: SAUL SMITH had MORE heart than any of these guys do...............

________________________________

Was Saul Smith the top talent that UK could recruit ??? EMPHATICALLY: NO.

That's the quetion. Saul's heart is not in question.
I nevered said Saul was a top PG....maybe he was not the best player on the floor but he put in110% everytime he walked on the floor.........can't say that about anybody on this team right now......sometimes you have to have heart.....

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

I see the attempt to hi-jack this post or get me all crazed. Won't happen.. LOL.. My point was made, and many many UK fans agree with it whether they will say it or not.

[Will Lavender]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: My point was made.

I'm not sure it was. Truly, I don't understand this thread. I'm not being facetious or anything: I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

I'm not sure it was. Truly, I don't understand this thread. I'm not being facetious or anything: I really don't understand what you're trying to say.
_____________

Tubby can't consistently recruit UK-caliber players, and it goes WAY back. How's that ?

[Will Lavender]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: I'm not sure it was. Truly, I don't understand this thread. I'm not being facetious or anything: I really don't understand what you're trying to say.
_____________

Tubby can't consistently recruit UK-caliber players, and it goes WAY back. How's that ?

Explain the last three years. That's a lot of wins.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

You can back Tubby and his recruiting all you want, it's aint' there my friend. Last 3 years???? Perry, Thomas, Shag, Woo, etc....... I'll leave it to you from here.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

PS, he can't develop any good one's he's lucky to land. See last year's group.

Drain the Tubb.

[DamonEsquire]

Those kids are developing. They are making the grade. Some are not preforming up to par. However expecting all or nothing seemingly bad. This team has been and will continue to find themselves in postion to win. I just think. The last second shot should swing toward Mr. Sparks and Mr. Moss for now. If you drive to hoops, clear lane for others. A three ball should go through Moss and Sparks. Next year that all changes but this yearshould stay.

A made attempt would challenge aspects but some have missed. I think. Mr. Crawford is one for three for importance (last shot because every action is important). Mr. Bradley is 0-1 andMr. Moss was a steady three baller at2/5 minute mark (last year).This team is on path for greatness. The question is this. Can they continue to find closenesswith faliure? I don't think so ...:)

[bleedbluelady]

Joneslab wrote: BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: My point was made.

I'm not sure it was. Truly, I don't understand this thread. I'm not being facetious or anything: I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

That makes two of us. What has Saul or Duhon got to do with Rondo or this team? I'm serious. :?

[Spanish Moss]

DamonEsquire, I feel better all over more than anywhere else after reading your posts. I really feel good knowing the team is on the path to greatness as they they continue to find closenesswith faliure. Now that is encouraging.
.

I watch the team and get a sick feeling, then I read your comments and I know everything is really OK.

Thanks buddy, I needed that.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

That makes two of us. What has Saul or Duhon got to do with Rondo or this team? I'm serious. :?
____________

Actually, the point of the post was stated several times. It said that Tubby has not consistently recruited UK Caliber players, starting with Saul Smith. UK didn't land Duhon because we chose Saul. Duhon ran circles around Saul during his career at Duke. You don't need to agree with it for it be true. :D

[Mr. Peanut]

Joneslab wrote: BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: My point was made.

I'm not sure it was. Truly, I don't understand this thread. I'm not being facetious or anything: I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

He's just baiting. This is thread #??? (too many) bashing Tubby and the cats. Nothing substantive or supported, just negative.

You finally nail him down to a "claim", and point out that if Tubby's recruiting and player development are so bad, and ifhis apathy began in '98,and Ky's problems began with the entrance of Saul Smith, how does he explain the last three years... his (non) response - "You can back Tubby and his recruiting all you want, it's aint' there my friend." Not a lot of substance when pressed huh.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

He's just baiting. This is thread #??? (too many) bashing Tubby and the cats. Nothing substantive or supported, just negative.

You finally nail him down to a "claim", and point out that if Tubby's recruiting and player development are so bad, and ifhis apathy began in '98,and Ky's problems began with the entrance of Saul Smith, how does he explain the last three years... his (non) response - "You can back Tubby and his recruiting all you want, it's aint' there my friend." Not a lot of substance when pressed huh.
++++++++++++++++++++
You said alot, but I don't see much substance. Now answer this: How's UK basketball doing now? What's the main reason for our demise? How many final fours did Saul LEAD his team to? He attended the game in 1998, that's about it. And if that's not enough substance, how many finals fours has Tubby EVER taken his own recruits to? WOW By the way, Duhon led Duke to a final four.

[Mr. Peanut]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: ++++++++++++++++++++
You said alot, but I don't see much substance. Now answer this: How's UK basketball doing now? What's the main reason for our demise? How many final fours did Saul LEAD his team to? He attended the game in 1998, that's about it. And if that's not enough substance, how many finals fours has Tubby EVER taken his own recruits to? WOW By the way, Duhon led Duke to a final four.

Substance has been thrown at you in every thread you've been in. Your response each time is just to dodge and continue bashing the cats and Tubby.

The team is stinking it up this year. Noone is disagreeing. But, you go further and demonize the team and the coach as apathetic and terrible... but, as Joneslab asked you, how do you explain the last 3 years?We weren't just above average, beating up on a weak SEC... WE LED THE FREAKIN NATION IN WINS!!! I'm disappointed that we haven't won another championship... but, I'm not crazy enough to think that is the only measure of a coach.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

WE LED THE FREAKIN NATION IN WINS!!!
______________

What was our record when it counted? Especially against the conference USA? OUCH.

[bret1555]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: He's just baiting. This is thread #??? (too many) bashing Tubby and the cats. Nothing substantive or supported, just negative.

You finally nail him down to a "claim", and point out that if Tubby's recruiting and player development are so bad, and ifhis apathy began in '98,and Ky's problems began with the entrance of Saul Smith, how does he explain the last three years... his (non) response - "You can back Tubby and his recruiting all you want, it's aint' there my friend." Not a lot of substance when pressed huh.
++++++++++++++++++++
You said alot, but I don't see much substance. Now answer this: How's UK basketball doing now? What's the main reason for our demise? How many final fours did Saul LEAD his team to? He attended the game in 1998, that's about it. And if that's not enough substance, how many finals fours has Tubby EVER taken his own recruits to? WOW By the way, Duhon led Duke to a final four.



I have said one thing on many posts, but no one ever seems to answer me. . . Everyone rips Tubby's recruiting, but nobody mentions the fact that there are at least 3 McDonald's All-Americans on this team. . . Where is the recruiting problem. Are there some projects that have not panned out as of yet? Sure there are, but that will always happen (see: Roderick Rhodes).

As for Tubby's "player development" are you kidding me? Gerald Fitch, Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, and Jamal Magliore are just 4 of the Cats that played under Tubby that now have productive careers in the league. Tubby got more out of Allen Edwardsand Wayne Turner than Pitino ever did. Same goes for Nazr Mohammed.

Your info on Chris Duhon must be a mistake, because he got to Duke for the 2000-2001 season (Saul's senior season)and promptly sat the bench behind Jay Williams, untilinjuries forced Coach K to play them both on the court at the same time. To assume that Duhon would have sat behind Saul Smith is just silly. Tubby is a good coach and a good basketball man, the better player would have started. . . Bar none.

[Mr. Peanut]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: WE LED THE FREAKIN NATION IN WINS!!!
______________

What was our record when it counted? Especially against the conference USA? OUCH.

Oh, thats right... I forgot. In your world nothing other than final fours count. Why are you even here watching the regular season... it apparently irrelevant and doesn't show us anything about a coach or a program. Why do I have a feeling if UK had made a few FFs, your "measure" would be national championships.

Like I said, I'm as disappointed as the next guy that we haven't won a title since '98... but, I understand that thats just one factor among many in judging a coach. If the cats had pulled out that MSU game last year, I wouldn't write off this years problems. If they somehow right the ship and make a final four this year, I'll still have some questions about the way things have gone.

[Mr. Peanut]

bret1555 wrote:
I have said one thing on many posts, but no one ever seems to answer me. . . Everyone rips Tubby's recruiting, but nobody mentions the fact that there are at least 3 McDonald's All-Americans on this team. . . Where is the recruiting problem. Are there some projects that have not panned out as of yet? Sure there are, but that will always happen (see: Roderick Rhodes).

As for Tubby's "player development" are you kidding me? Gerald Fitch, Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, and Jamal Magliore are just 4 of the Cats that played under Tubby that now have productive careers in the league. Tubby got more out of Allen Edwardsand Wayne Turner than Pitino ever did. Same goes for Nazr Mohammed.

Your info on Chris Duhon must be a mistake, because he got to Duke for the 2000-2001 season (Saul's senior season)and promptly sat the bench behind Jay Williams, untilinjuries forced Coach K to play them both on the court at the same time. To assume that Duhon would have sat behind Saul Smith is just silly. Tubby is a good coach and a good basketball man, the better player would have started. . . Bar none.

Good post and good points.

I'll answer for this guy who starts these threads - save us some time... "Yeah, well, what about Bernard Cote huh? What about him.... [mumbles something about final fours]... [brushes his teeth before mom says lights out]"

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

I have said one thing on many posts, but no one ever seems to answer me. . . Everyone rips Tubby's recruiting, but nobody mentions the fact that there are at least 3 McDonald's All-Americans on this team. . . Where is the recruiting problem. Are there some projects that have not panned out as of yet? Sure there are, but that will always happen (see: Roderick Rhodes).

As for Tubby's "player development" are you kidding me? Gerald Fitch, Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, and Jamal Magliore are just 4 of the Cats that played under Tubby that now have productive careers in the league. Tubby got more out of Allen Edwardsand Wayne Turner than Pitino ever did. Same goes for Nazr Mohammed.

Your info on Chris Duhon must be a mistake, because he got to Duke for the 2000-2001 season (Saul's senior season)and promptly sat the bench behind Jay Williams, untilinjuries forced Coach K to play them both on the court at the same time. To assume that Duhon would have sat behind Saul Smith is just silly. Tubby is a good coach and a good basketball man, the better player would have started. . . Bar none.

_______________
Duhon didn't come to UK because Saul was a senior, and was starting PG. Remember how we were DYING for a good PG since Burner Turner? There ya have it. Cliff Hawkins or Chris Duhon? LOL Anothe good chance to go to a final four or two, put on hold while Tubby watched his son grow up right in front of him. Such a nice story !

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

'll answer for this guy who starts these threads - save us some time... "Yeah, well, what about Bernard Cote huh? What about him.... [mumbles something about final fours]... [brushes his teeth before mom says lights out]"

_________________
LOL, and you just said I couldn't back up my arguements, and in the next breath all you have to offer is a personal attack.

Pot, meet Kettle.

[bleedbluelady]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: That makes two of us. What has Saul or Duhon got to do with Rondo or this team? I'm serious. :?
____________

Actually, the point of the post was stated several times. It said that Tubby has not consistently recruited UK Caliber players, starting with Saul Smith. UK didn't land Duhon because we chose Saul. Duhon ran circles around Saul during his career at Duke. You don't need to agree with it for it be true. :D

Maybe you meant to say that, but no where in your post do you say that. FWIW, I agree Duhon was a better PG that Saul. But what does that have to do with Rondo?

[bret1555]

Cliff Hawkins was probably the best defensive point guard in college basketball for two years. . . Let's not forget that. Duhon made a choice. Did it ever occur to you that he WANTED to go the Duke? Believe it or not, not all high school ballers want to come to Kentucky, our state does not suffer from the problems of a positive image, after all.

You still didn't answer my question about Tubby's recruiting or player development? What is your reason for ripping his recruiting/development? Every team has kids that don't work out, that happens when you are dealing with 17-22 year old young men. What has been so awful about Tubby's recruiting? What players has he not developed?

[audacious1]

Joneslab wrote: BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: My point was made.

I'm not sure it was. Truly, I don't understand this thread. I'm not being facetious or anything: I really don't understand what you're trying to say.


He's trying to put another black mark on Tubby's personal profile because his own son wanted to play for his father. Truly, Buffalo, you really must really want Tubby gone.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

What players has he not developed?

Are you serious? Woo, Shag, Thomas, Perry. Oh wait, those aren't UK caliber players (bad recruiting) so they can't be developed. Next question?

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Brett, you've named four players that you think Tubby Developed. What percentage of the overall players that Tubby has coached do those 4 players make up? 2%? 1% ?? LOL. By the way, Bogans didn't have a good college career AT ALL. It took him until his senior year to finally play well in Tubby's "system." Bogans is doing well now because of Tubby? Laughable. Bogans is doing well because he is in the small minority of people that refuse to fail.

[DamonEsquire]

I did not wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Smith and sons apperception in play. The fact remains. He did turn over the ball butunacceptable stats were not there always either.

[Mr. Peanut]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Brett, you've named four players that you think Tubby Developed. What percentage of the overall players that Tubby has coached do those 4 players make up? 2%? 1% ?? LOL. By the way, Bogans didn't have a good college career AT ALL. It took him until his senior year to finally play well in Tubby's "system." Bogans is doing well now because of Tubby? Laughable. Bogans is doing well because he is in the small minority of people that refuse to fail.

Lol. Which is it? He can't recruit good players... yet he somehow developedthose "bad recruits" into teams that have won more than anyone in the nation. Or, he can recruit talent and he can't develope it.

At least try to be consistent.

[bret1555]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Brett, you've named four players that you think Tubby Developed. What percentage of the overall players that Tubby has coached do those 4 players make up? 2%? 1% ?? LOL. By the way, Bogans didn't have a good college career AT ALL. It took him until his senior year to finally play well in Tubby's "system." Bogans is doing well now because of Tubby? Laughable. Bogans is doing well because he is in the small minority of people that refuse to fail.

Wait, wait, hold on. Keith Bogans had one BAD year in college. . . His junior year when he was trying to do too much. The rest of his career was as good as any player in Kentucky history (number 4 all-time scorer at UK, #2 in 3-pt field goals, and 13th in assists). Do I think that Bogans is doing well BECAUSE of Tubby? No. However, to fail to acknowledge that Tubby has taken raw players and turned them into NBA draft picks is folly. I also didnt name Erik Daniels, Scott Padgett, or any of the host of other former players that are playing overseas, in the NBDL, or are otherwiseplying their craft. Oh yeah, and ask Tayshaun Prince what role Tubby had in turning a skinny kid from Compton into an NBA champ. . . See what he says. Somehow, I take his word over someone who has never once stepped foot in a UK practice not called "Midnight Madness."

As for the overall percentage of players that he has put into the pros, I would like to point out that a very small percentage of college basketball players will ever find the NBA.

My point is this. . . Tubby has developed players. And hehas recruited talented players. Ijust want some substantiation when people claim thathe hasn't.

[Will Lavender]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: By the way, Bogans didn't have a good college career AT ALL.

WTF?

This is getting ridiculous.

Buffalo, give it up, man. I'm getting to the point that I have serious doubts about Tubby myself. But if you're going to make a case, make it well. This is just revisionist history. Weak.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

WTF?

This is getting ridiculous.

Buffalo, give it up, man. I'm getting to the point that I have serious doubts about Tubby myself. But if you're going to make a case, make it well. This is just revisionist history. Weak.

_______________

You have to come stronger than that. Bogans was a MESS in Tubby's system for quite some time. To say Tubby is to credit for Bogans success is.....:rolleyes:

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Drain the Tub. He hasn't consistently peformed at the level an elite program requires a coach to perfom. We're 15-9 in our last 24 games for pete's sake. LOL ( That was the sound of Tubby laughing all the way to the bank).

[bret1555]

We have a top 5 coach. . . Period. Men who know a lot more about basketball than any of us (see: Tom Izzo, any coach in the SEC, a myriad of NBA executives, etc. as examples) universally respect Tubby's coaching ability, character, and recruiting.

Alas, I grow discouraged. . . I am done with this thread.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

My point is this. . . Tubby has developed players. And hehas recruited talented players. Ijust want some substantiation when people claim thathe hasn't.
________________

15-9 in our last 24 games. 3 Burger boys in uniform, 0 and 2 since having all three together in uniform.

[Mr. Peanut]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: We're 15-9 in our last 24 games for pete's sake. LOL ( That was the sound of Tubby laughing all the way to the bank).
Hold on... so, now its win/loss record that matters? Stay on task here buddy! Only final fours matter... right?

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

We have a top 5 coach. . . Period. Men who know a lot more about basketball than any of us (see: Tom Izzo, any coach in the SEC, a myriad of NBA executives, etc. as examples) universally respect Tubby's coaching ability, character, and recruiting.
_______________

Izzo's a sly dog. He loves Tubby at UK................Because he'll own UK as long as Tubby is here. BINGO. I'd say great things about Tubby to if I had him in my back pocket.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Hold on... so, now its win/loss record that matters? Stay on task here buddy! Only final fours matter... right?

15-9 refers to that so called player deveopment. Try to pay attention.

[Mr. Peanut]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Hold on... so, now its win/loss record that matters? Stay on task here buddy! Only final fours matter... right?

15-9 refers to that so called player deveopment. Try to pay attention.



Oh, gotcha... and the three years before that somehow didn't refer to player development. :rolleyes:

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Oh, gotcha... and the three years before that somehow didn't refer to player development. :rolleyes:

____________________

If players were developed properly, they wouldn't lose to UAB in round 2. ;)

[cnice11]

man, you are out there. Bogans has turned out to be a good pro player. Tubby keeps players like him in check. the only truly great player he hasn't had to try and keep in check, in my opinion, is Tayshaun Prince. He played Tubby's system and is now on the verge of becoming a superstar in the NBA. I think Tubbys problem, is he's recruited too many superstar high schoolers. he puts a bunch of high AA on the floor and they all want to be a star. I read somewhere else on this site, about recruiting solid KY players; ex:Scott Padgett, Anthony Epps, RAVI,.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Bogans has turned out to be a good pro player.

Bogans is a VERY good pro player. who ever said he wasn't????? Did Tubby have anything to do with that? Well, Bogans came out rolling as a Freshman, so that couldn't have been Tubby. Then as a Junior he STUNK......... in Tubby's "system."

Here's the deal: Tubby isn't a great recruiter and is even worse at molding the players he has.. Roll on cats, right out of the top 100, while some defend the Tubster the WHOLE WAY DOWN.

[cnice11]

Thats true. Rondo needs to develop his jumper. He needs to be a little more protective of the ball

[Will Lavender]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Bogans has turned out to be a good pro player.

Bogans is a VERY good pro player. who ever said he wasn't????? Did Tubby have anything to do with that? Well, Bogans came out rolling as a Freshman, so that couldn't have been Tubby. Then as a Junior he STUNK......... in Tubby's "system."

Here's the deal: Tubby isn't a great recruiter and is even worse at molding the players he has.. Ronn on cats, right out of the top 100, while some defend the Tubster the WHOLE WAY DOWN.

Bogans was an all-American. SEC player of the year. In the top ten in scoring in the history of the program. Two-time first-team all-SEC.

Bernard Cote, fine. Saul Smith, fine. Keith Bogans? Go home. You're arguing for the sake of arguing now. I see a little bit of glee in your posts; as somebody said yesterday, you seem to be getting just a tad too much pleasure out of the Cats' downward spiral.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Bogans was an all-American. SEC player of the year. In the top ten in scoring in the history of the program. Two-time first-team all-SEC.

Bernard Cote, fine. Saul Smith, fine. Keith Bogans? Go home. You're arguing for the sake of arguing now. I see a little bit of glee in your posts; as somebody said yesterday, you seem to be getting just a tad too much pleasure out of the Cats' downward spiral.
_____________________________

My argument is that Bogans is not the very good player he is today because of Tubby..... Bogans has the work ethic that not many have. He worked his tail of to get where he is. I guess Tubby's worked his tail off to get our program where it is...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[TrueblueCATfan]

ASK Prince if Tubby can recruit...............Prince is tearing up the NBA and a 48 million dollar deal to boot.............Who molded Prince the 4 years he was at UK.....TUBBY

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

ASK Prince if Tubby can recruit...............Prince is tearing up the NBA and a 48 million dollar deal to boot.............Who molded Prince the 4 years he was at UK.....TUBBY

Tubby molded Prince???????? Take a look at Prince now and in college. He was held back BIG TIME in Tubby's system. BIGTIME man !!!!

[Will Lavender]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Bogans was an all-American. SEC player of the year. In the top ten in scoring in the history of the program. Two-time first-team all-SEC.

Bernard Cote, fine. Saul Smith, fine. Keith Bogans? Go home. You're arguing for the sake of arguing now. I see a little bit of glee in your posts; as somebody said yesterday, you seem to be getting just a tad too much pleasure out of the Cats' downward spiral.
_____________________________

My argument is that Bogans is not the very good player he is today because of Tubby..... Bogans has the work ethic that not many have. He worked his tail of to get where he is. I guess Tubby's worked his tail off to get our program where it is...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don't understand that post.

I believe you're saying that Bogans worked hard to get where he is, and that it has nothing to do with Tubby.

Well, you're entering into a place where the argument gets sealed down. There's nothing I can say to dispute that point because we're on a subjective ground now. I will say this: Tubby Smith MADE Keith Bogans into the player he is.

Obviously, that's just my opinion. And because it's my opinion, you can't dispute it.

See how this works? We can go round and round all day and not get anywhere. :shock:

Let's just say this: Keith Bogans had a solid (if up-and-down) career at UK. He finished with tremendous, tremendous numbers. And Tubby Smith has had his share of players that have not panned out, for some reason or another.

Happy? ;) Let's put this thread to rest. Please.

[DamonEsquire]

Not to go off subject but there is a freshman at Southren Zal (USC). H is from Louisana. I watch him against Washington and he foul out with 10/11 pts. I am kinda of dilusional over freshman and his running point from Louisana.:shock:

[TrueblueCATfan]

BOY BUFF...............you have a fricking answer for everything.......Prince was just fine while at UK and he is even better now because of TUBBY...............me thinks you better find another team to cheer for if you are that miserable..........

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

BOY BUFF...............you have a fricking answer for everything.......Prince was just fine while at UK and he is even better now because of TUBBY...............me thinks you better find another team to cheer for if you are that miserable..........
___________
I'm actually quite happy, thanks. LOL. Prince often VANISHED while at UK. That's just a FACT. Players often vanish when they play for Tubby though, so no surprise.

[TrueblueCATfan]

WHATEVER..............I GOT TO GO DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES IS ON.....SEE YA



TUBBY...TUBBY...TUBBY

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

TUBBY...TUBBY...TUBBY

Out of the Top 25, Out of the top 30
Out of the Top 40...... But he's a NICE man !!

[Mr. Peanut]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: My argument is that Bogans is not the very good player he is today because of Tubby..... Bogans has the work ethic that not many have. He worked his tail of to get where he is. I guess Tubby's worked his tail off to get our program where it is...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You are too easy. So, Tubby is directly responsible for the kids who don't become AAs, but he gets no credit for players like Bogans or Prince.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

You are too easy. So, Tubby is directly responsible for the kids who don't become AAs, but he gets no credit for players like Bogans or Prince.
____________________

You're good at taking one instance, and applying it to everything. Actually, no you aren't. lol

[Houstoncat]

I seem to remember that Duhon's mother perferred that he go to Duke. I might be wrong if I am I apologize.

Quite frankly I don't think anyone in his right mind would truly think that a Div I coach would not play a better player just to play his son. Friends DI ain't your local tball or junior pro league where Dad coaches to play his son.

I suspect Duhon's decision was based on many things not the least of which was his mothers wishes and Dukes rep leave Saul alone. He gave us his best. Don't disrepect him.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

I seem to remember that Duhon's mother perferred that he go to Duke. I might be wrong if I am I apologize.

Quite frankly I don't think anyone in his right mind would truly think that a Div I coach would not play a better player just to play his son. Friends DI ain't your local tball or junior pro league where Dad coaches to play his son.

I suspect Duhon's decision was based on many things not the least of which was his mothers wishes and Dukes rep leave Saul alone. He gave us his best. Don't disrepect him.

__________
Duhon is just one name. So are you saying UK couldn't land a better PG than Saul Smith? That alone makes Tubby look incompetent.

[audacious1]

Joneslab wrote: BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: By the way, Bogans didn't have a good college career AT ALL.

WTF?

This is getting ridiculous.

Buffalo, give it up, man. I'm getting to the point that I have serious doubts about Tubby myself. But if you're going to make a case, make it well. This is just revisionist history. Weak.

Buffalo wants Tubby gone and is working Overtime to sway public opinion. It's quite clear.

(Not that I'm happy with the current state of affairs either, so don't pull the lame, "You must be a Louisville fan" B.S. like you've done in the past.)

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

I want UK basketball fixed, and if that means Tubb gone sobeit. If that means Tubby here and actually earning his paycheck, then so be that too... Not everything is as they seem, so you're attempt to "peg" me, is wrong.

[Houstoncat]

Buffalo I'm not sure if he could have landed a point guard or not. I don't know other schools recruiting tactics and howthey used the father/son tactic.

My statment was simply that I seem to remember that Duhon had other reasons for going to Duke not just (and I'm not sure that really bothered him) the fact that Saul was a point guard.

My real problem here is that people are disrespecting a kid that gave us everything he had. He put it on the line. Remember him for that if nothing else.

[Mr. Peanut]

Paladin wrote: Joneslab wrote: BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: By the way, Bogans didn't have a good college career AT ALL.

WTF?

This is getting ridiculous.

Buffalo, give it up, man. I'm getting to the point that I have serious doubts about Tubby myself. But if you're going to make a case, make it well. This is just revisionist history. Weak.

Buffalo wants Tubby gone and is working Overtime to sway public opinion. It's quite clear.

(Not that I'm happy with the current state of affairs either, so don't pull the lame, "You must be a Louisville fan" B.S. like you've done in the past.)



:DI think Buffalo is just enjoying the attention. There aren't many public arenas where average joes (like all of us) get to express our opinions and have anyone take notice... So, why is he getting all this attention this evening? Because he's just what the doctor ordered. An easy target who is willing to be the punching bag for all of us frustrated UK fans. Secretly, I think he is a guy named Buddah posting under another name. Once the frustration level goes down, flamers like this guy back to being ignored. Lol, post a Bernard Cote thread except when everyone is looking for an outlet for frustration and see if it gets a single response...

[Mr. Peanut]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: You are too easy. So, Tubby is directly responsible for the kids who don't become AAs, but he gets no credit for players like Bogans or Prince.
____________________

You're good at taking one instance, and applying it to everything. Actually, no you aren't. lol


You mean I'm good pointing out how contradictory your many Tubby bashes are... You are the one who started the thread talking about blaming Tubby for player development... then you try to say he's NOT responsible for developement... then he is... strong work.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

ou mean I'm good pointing out how contradictory your many Tubby bashes are... You are the one who started the thread talking about blaming Tubby for player development... then you try to say he's NOT responsible for developement... then he is... strong work.
_____________

Nice attempt to scramble everything up to fit your views. Are you ever going to say anything of substance about the mess we're in, or are you just going to continue to take the low road and make personal attacks? You're better than that, I would hope....:rolleyes:

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

I think Buffalo is just enjoying the attention. There aren't many public arenas where average joes (like all of us) get to express our opinions and have anyone take notice... So, why is he getting all this attention this evening? Because he's just what the doctor ordered. An easy target who is willing to be the punching bag for all of us frustrated UK fans. Secretly, I think he is a guy named Buddah posting under another name. Once the frustration level goes down, flamers like this guy back to being ignored. Lol, post a Bernard Cote thread except when everyone is looking for an outlet for frustration and see if it gets a single response...

______________

LOL. When have you said ONE thing to back up Tubby and where we are now. Come on, try really hard. Give us ONE reason, or are insults all you are capable of ???

[tauzreborn]

At least Tubby could trust Saul to run the play he had called!!!

[TrueblueCATfan]

tauzreborn wrote: At least Tubby could trust Saul to run the play he had called!!!GOOD ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Saul was also a solid point guard his senior year. between 97 and 04 there were only 3 seasons when we had a pg average more ast/g than saul did his senior year. two of those years he was out assisted by .5 or less. that's not much. the only season when there was a real diffeence was 04 when hawkins averaged 5.2. i would say that was pretty solid pg play. not great, but it got the job done. he never put us in a position to lose the game but he did help us win games, and that is the only stat that really matters.

_______________

How many Final 4's did he LEAD us to ? Let's cut the crap, when you think Kentucky Basketball, you don't think of guys like Saul Smith leading your team... Bottom line.

[DCWildcat]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: You can back Tubby and his recruiting all you want, it's aint' there my friend. Last 3 years???? Perry, Thomas, Shag, Woo, etc....... I'll leave it to you from here.



Please, try harder to ignore what he said

Man I HATE being the winningest basketball team of the last4 years!

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Funny, only a select few UK fans are making themselves feel good about a bunch of regular season wins. Everyone else is thinking "what on earth has happened to Rome."

[DCWildcat]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Funny, only a select few UK fans are making themselves feel good about a bunch of regular season wins. Everyone else is thinking "what on earth has happened to Rome."



So are the masses really that asinine?

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

So are the masses really that asinine?

_________________

I know alot of UK fans, and not one single one of them is saying "we won more than anybody the last 3 years and I feel great." Most of them are admitting that we are a disaster as far as UK Standards. The others are trying to find other things to do with their time until UK get's serious about the season.

[TrueblueCATfan]

DCWildcat wrote: BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: You can back Tubby and his recruiting all you want, it's aint' there my friend. Last 3 years???? Perry, Thomas, Shag, Woo, etc....... I'll leave it to you from here.



Please, try harder to ignore what he said

Man I HATE being the winningest basketball team of the last4 years!
yeah it sucks doesn't it...........UK has won more games than anybody in the country with Tubby as the coach......:cry::tongue:tongue:tongue:tongue:tongu e

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

yeah it sucks doesn't it...........UK has won more games than anybody in the country with Tubby as the coach......:cry::tongue:tongue:tongue:tongue:tongu e

_____________________

Keep telling yourself that to make it better. Won more games than ANYONE the last 3 years.... yet zero final fours and a second round bounce from UAB. Compelling.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Thank you I will..................Are you trying to set a record with the most posts on one thread.....if so I think you just WON :D

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Thank you I will..................Are you trying to set a record with the most posts on one thread.....if so I think you just WON :D

_________________________

I can see it know. A Kansas fan asks you how UK's doing, and instead of facing it like a real fan, you're response is "We've won more games the last 3 years than anyone and I love blue Koolaid !!" Embarrassing........for you.

[Swimmer4uk]

BuffwithRanch - i have to answer to Kansas fans daily, and i always use our wins, final fours, 7 CC's, tourney appearances, tourney wins etc. I am not embarrassed at all to say those things. what are you getting at?

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

SAying we have more final fours is fine, but saying "we have more wins the last 3 years under such a nice man Tuby smith" is.. well, sickening. lol

[TrueblueCATfan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Thank you I will..................Are you trying to set a record with the most posts on one thread.....if so I think you just WON :D

_________________________

I can see it know. A Kansas fan asks you how UK's doing, and instead of facing it like a real fan, you're response is "We've won more games the last 3 years than anyone and I love blue Koolaid !!" Embarrassing........for you.
GIVE THE MAN A PRIZE:):):):):):)

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

GIVE THE MAN A PRIZE:):):):):):)
____________________________

Give the lady a clue....:P:P:P:P:P:P

[Swimmer4uk]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: SAying we have more final fours is fine, but saying "we have more wins the last 3 years under such a nice man Tuby smith" is.. well, sickening. lol

i don't understand why.

without using your patented "Saul Smith" response, please explain how having the most wins in the NCAA in the past 3 years is sickings

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

without using your patented "Saul Smith" response, please explain how having the most wins in the NCAA in the past 3 years is sickings

It's all fluff my man. Last 3 years: Embarrassing loss last year in SEC Championship game to Florida. , Embarrassing loss in round 2 to UAB , bad loss to Marquette (UK HAS to beat Marquette, we are elite), run out of our own gym by U of L when we clearly had more talent, loss to U of L at U of L when we were up by 11 (and Daniels laughed as we went on to get run out of the gym), Embarrassing 1st round loss to South Carolina in SEC Tournament, guaranteed home losses every year................... and I haven't even touched on this year !! LOL !!

Tubby Smith: I'll win y'all lots of games, but don't count on me when the chips are down !

[TrueblueCATfan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: GIVE THE MAN A PRIZE:):):):):):)
____________________________

Give the lady a clue....:P:P:P:P:P:P
OH I have a clue all right...you seem to be the one that does not....WHY are you So negative....What other coach out there incuding the all mighty Pitino has that kind of record.....MOST WINS THAN ANY OTHER COLLEGE TEAM IN THE COUNTRY.....hell yeah I am proud to say it

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

.MOST WINS THAN ANY OTHER COLLEGE TEAM IN THE COUNTRY

_____________

Go out on top of your roof and scream it and see if anyone cares. ZERO final fours. Regular season wins against a weak SEC gets you fired up??? Unbelievable how Tubby has slowly lulled our Fanbase expectations to "heck with the final four as long as we beat teams we SHOULD beat ! Yip-dang-eee !! LOL

[Swimmer4uk]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Tubby Smith: I'll win y'all lots of games, but don't count on me when the chips are down !

Look, i'm with you on Tubby's inability to pull out the big games. I understand that. But what does that have to do with having the most wins in NCAA basketball in past 3yrs? You can focus on the negative all you want, but HE IS THE COACH WE HAVE. I have stated I am not a Tubby fan many times, but attempting to discredit him by using his son is not proving anything. It was nepotism plain and simple.

Again, I agree about losing those games. I get that, and fully support you there, however winning the most games in the NCAA is a pretty substantial feat. And I still can't see your reasoning for you thinking this isn't something to brag about

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Look, i'm with you on Tubby's inability to pull out the big games. I understand that. But what does that have to do with having the most wins in NCAA basketball in past 3yrs? You can focus on the negative all you want, but HE IS THE COACH WE HAVE. I have stated I am not a Tubby fan many times, but attempting to discredit him by using his son is not proving anything. It was nepotism plain and simple.

Again, I agree about losing those games. I get that, and fully support you there, however winning the most games in the NCAA is a pretty substantial feat. And I still can't see your reasoning for you thinking this isn't something to brag about

_______________

The sports fans I know would look at me and say "who the heck cares" if I bragged about regular season wins. At the TOP level, it's about Championships. That's what get's you fired up. Not beating UT and UGA twice when they are in the middle of changing coaches. Oh wait, UGA beat us twice in one year when they were changing coaches.............. Tubby has lulled Big Blue Nation to sleep. We feel no pain anymore and look to regular season wins for satisfaction. WOW

[TrueblueCATfan]

OK..WHATEVER.....YOU HAVE YOUR OPINION AND I HAVE MINE...........I LIKE MINE BETTER............



GO BIG BLUE:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:: lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Swimmer4uk]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: The sports fans I know would look at me and say "who the heck cares" if I bragged about regular season wins. At the TOP level, it's about Championships. That's what get's you fired up. Not beating UT and UGA twice when they are in the middle of changing coaches. Oh wait, UGA beat us twice in one year when they were changing coaches.............. Tubby has lulled Big Blue Nation to sleep. We feel no pain anymore and look to regular season wins for satisfaction. WOW

Ok, so what you are telling me is that if you don't consistently win a national championship that nothing else really matters?

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Ok, so what you are telling me is that if you don't consistently win a national championship that nothing else really matters?

____________________

I'm saying that a bunch of regular season wins don't get me fired up AT ALL if we choke, as we have, when the stakes are high. I'm entitled to that opinion, most people that go really far in their pursuits see it the same way.

[Swimmer4uk]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: ...most people that go really far in their pursuits see it the same way.

for example?

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Example??? Ask anyone at the top of their sport if they BRAG about regular season wins if they continuously crumbled when their ultimate goal was in front of them.

This is silly dood........I can't believe I'm even having to spell it out. Look, you run the halls screaming "we won more games than anyone the last three years" while Syracuse, UNC, and UCONN hold the trophy. Whatever floats your boat, lol.

[TrueblueCATfan]

REGULAR SEASON WINS DO MATTER...........without them there is NO National Championship.....

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

REGULAR SEASON WINS DO MATTER...........without them there is NO National Championship.....

_______________________________
You are correct, but bragging about regular season wins when you choked on the main stage............... is pathetic. Nobody cares !

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Those who dwell on past victories end up..................... well, they end up 10-6. Just ask Tubby. Doubt he dreams of 98 much lately. LOL

[Swimmer4uk]

TrueblueCATfan wrote: REGULAR SEASON WINS DO MATTER...........without them there is NO National Championship.....
i have given up TrueblueCATfan, as have others. There is no reasoning with this

[tauzreborn]

Buffalo,

It is obvious that you care a lot about UK and want them to do well, but I believe that most UK fans, myself included, do not want to hear the pessimistic attitude that you are putting forth.

If we were to roll off 14 wins, and get to the elite eight would you praise them for salvaging the season or is it still a failure?

All of us want Championships, but most of us realize that we arent as strong as in the past. Is it all Tubby's fault - maybe, butblame and famecan teeter-totter everyday and he should get the credit when the team does well and when it doesn't. This is a test for all the fans so suck it up and deal. It is good to talk out your frustrations, but your arguements seem more hate induced than love. Come back to the bright side of things and lets cheer on the cats tomorrow.

jordan

BLUE

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

LOL, when Tubby wins, he gets all the credit. When we lose, it's the players faults. Like him calling Sparks Stupid the other day. OTS is/was/will be a JOKE, and it started the very day he rested on his tournament win and let his son run the point at UK.

[BrassowFan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: LOL, when Tubby wins, he gets all the credit. When we lose, it's the players faults. Like him calling Sparks Stupid the other day. OTS is/was/will be a JOKE, and it started the very day he rested on his tournament win and let his son run the point at UK.

There it is! Yeah... let it out...

The fact is that you're among a group of UK fans who have hated Tubby since the day Saul Smith joined the club. Despite the wins, despite everything that he has brought to the school, it was never good enough.

I think that Tubby could've made it to the Final Four every year and failed to advance to the final game and you would make that your standard.

A few years ago the standard was that we were losing 10 games a year... now regular season games aren't so important.

3 years ago the argument was that he'd never beat Pitino again... now that doesn't matter.

If he made it to the final game and lost... that would be your standard.

If he only won another championship... that would be your standard.

The fact is that he's not the coach that you would hire... therefore he's automatically not good enough for UK - at least in your mind. That's fair, there are others that agree, however using these arguments and ignoring the positives that ARE THERE is just hurting any credibility that you have when you make statements such as that you hope that he turns it around when in fact you love this season because it's validating everything that you've ever thought about the man.

I would bet that Izzo or Pelphrey could come here, have the same results, and get twice the support. I can't explain it but some people will never give this guy half of the credit that he deserves.

Does any of this absolve Tubby from the problems that we're having this year? Not one bit however when doing a fair evaluation of the man you cannot exclude positives such as winning games and tournament championships just because it doesn't fit your agenda.

If you don't like the guy and wish him gone, just say it!

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

here it is! Yeah... let it out...

The fact is that you're among a group of UK fans who have hated Tubby since the day Saul Smith joined the club. Despite the wins, despite everything that he has brought to the school, it was never good enough.

I think that Tubby could've made it to the Final Four every year and failed to advance to the final game and you would make that your standard.

A few years ago the standard was that we were losing 10 games a year... now regular season games aren't so important.

3 years ago the argument was that he'd never beat Pitino again... now that doesn't matter.

If he made it to the final game and lost... that would be your standard.

If he only won another championship... that would be your standard.

The fact is that he's not the coach that you would hire... therefore he's automatically not good enough for UK - at least in your mind. That's fair, there are others that agree, however using these arguments and ignoring the positives that ARE THERE is just hurting any credibility that you have when you make statements such as that you hope that he turns it around when in fact you love this season because it's validating everything that you've ever thought about the man.

I would bet that Izzo or Pelphrey could come here, have the same results, and get twice the support. I can't explain it but some people will never give this guy half of the credit that he deserves.

Does any of this absolve Tubby from the problems that we're having this year? Not one bit however when doing a fair evaluation of the man you cannot exclude positives such as winning games and tournament championships just because it doesn't fit your agenda.

If you don't like the guy and wish him gone, just say it!

_____________________

Nice try and lots of words, but GONG, wrong again. I said right here in this forum yesterday, that I wanted UK's program run the way it should be whether it was with or without Tubby. Was Tubby earning his keep when he played catch in the backyard with Saul? NO. Is Tubby earning his keep right now? LOL.... easy answer.

[BrassowFan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Nice try and lots of words, but GONG, wrong again. I said right here in this forum yesterday, that I wanted UK's program run the way it should be whether it was with or without Tubby. Was Tubby earning his keep when he played catch in the backyard with Saul? NO. Is Tubby earning his keep right now? LOL.... easy answer.

I know you did, that's why I quoted the above post because IMO what you said yesterday was fluff, the post today is your true feelings.

Admit it, when was the last time you supported Tubby? When was the last time you could honestly say that you were proud to have him as our coach? That he was doing a great job?

My bet is that it was 1998 and that it might have lasted until Saul started playing at UK.

It's ok... I know that there are fans like you out there... you've had to stay in the closet for 3 years and finally... finally you can come out because the world will probably agree with you.

Maybe you were right all along, I don't know, but any discussion about Tubby that negates any success that he's had is not an honest discussion of the facts. That's all that it comes down to.

[Ky Man]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: here it is! Yeah... let it out...

The fact is that you're among a group of UK fans who have hated Tubby since the day Saul Smith joined the club. Despite the wins, despite everything that he has brought to the school, it was never good enough.

I think that Tubby could've made it to the Final Four every year and failed to advance to the final game and you would make that your standard.

A few years ago the standard was that we were losing 10 games a year... now regular season games aren't so important.

3 years ago the argument was that he'd never beat Pitino again... now that doesn't matter.

If he made it to the final game and lost... that would be your standard.

If he only won another championship... that would be your standard.

The fact is that he's not the coach that you would hire... therefore he's automatically not good enough for UK - at least in your mind. That's fair, there are others that agree, however using these arguments and ignoring the positives that ARE THERE is just hurting any credibility that you have when you make statements such as that you hope that he turns it around when in fact you love this season because it's validating everything that you've ever thought about the man.

I would bet that Izzo or Pelphrey could come here, have the same results, and get twice the support. I can't explain it but some people will never give this guy half of the credit that he deserves.

Does any of this absolve Tubby from the problems that we're having this year? Not one bit however when doing a fair evaluation of the man you cannot exclude positives such as winning games and tournament championships just because it doesn't fit your agenda.

If you don't like the guy and wish him gone, just say it!

_____________________

Nice try and lots of words, but GONG, wrong again. I said right here in this forum yesterday, that I wanted UK's program run the way it should be whether it was with or without Tubby. Was Tubby earning his keep when he played catch in the backyard with Saul? NO. Is Tubby earning his keep right now? LOL.... easy answer.
BWwR, I have read all your posts in this thread and I have really tried to understand you, and I finally have it figured out. You are a Tubby hater and if he had won 3 out of the last 4 NCAA Championships, you would be focused on the 1 he did not win. Tubby has done a good job at UK, am I happy that we have no championships since 98, hell no..but I do not blame Tubby for it...there is only one team who finishes as #1 in the country each year...so are all the other coaches bad coaches because of it. I for one don't think so...anyway...I have said my piece and will say no more on this thread.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Swimmer4uk wrote: TrueblueCATfan wrote: REGULAR SEASON WINS DO MATTER...........without them there is NO National Championship.....
i have given up TrueblueCATfan, as have others. There is no reasoning with this
I gave up last night but for some dumb reason I keep coming back

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

I know you did, that's why I quoted the above post because IMO what you said yesterday was fluff, the post today is your true feelings.

Admit it, when was the last time you supported Tubby? When was the last time you could honestly say that you were proud to have him as our coach? That he was doing a great job?

My bet is that it was 1998 and that it might have lasted until Saul started playing at UK.

It's ok... I know that there are fans like you out there... you've had to stay in the closet for 3 years and finally... finally you can come out because the world will probably agree with you.

Maybe you were right all along, I don't know, but any discussion about Tubby that negates any success that he's had is not an honest discussion of the facts. That's all that it comes down to.
___________________

I know you want to be right, but you are DEAD wrong my man. Tubby is a family man, so am I. I've waited patiently and even overlooked the Saul mess until NOW. He's run our program into the ground. PERIOD. It's just a difference of opinions. Don't act like you know what I'm thinking, because you clearly DO NOT. I've argued FOR Tubby with my dad, but no more. Nice guy finising last, PERIOD.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

BWwR, I have read all your posts in this thread and I have really tried to understand you, and I finally have it figured out. You are a Tubby hater and if he had won 3 out of the last 4 NCAA Championships, you would be focused on the 1 he did not win. Tubby has done a good job at UK, am I happy that we have no championships since 98, hell no..but I do not blame Tubby for it...there is only one team who finishes as #1 in the country each year...so are all the other coaches bad coaches because of it. I for one don't think so...anyway...I have said my piece and will say no more on this thread.

_______________
Go back to the chalk board. See my last post. You guys want it to be personal, you want it to be racists, BUT IT'S NOT. It's what have you done to earn your 2 million a year??? Beat up on and SEC conference that HAS embarrassed itself in the NCAA tournament those years? LOL

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

saul smith was not the reason that we did not make the final four. his job was to bring the ball up the court and pass it to the other players on the team, and he did that.

saul did not bring the ball up the court and play one-on-oneoffense like a couple of the guards that we have now do. he played tubby's game and played it pretty well. the fact that we did not go to the fiunal four with him asthe pg is not only his fault you have to look at everyone on the teams that he was on. you have to look at padgett, turner, hawkins, nazr, estill, tayshaun, and anyone else you want to put in there. basketball is a team sport win orlose andthe fact is saul did not lose those tournament games for us. the team as a whole lost them.

__________________

Are you saying Saul was our best choice of PG's to recruit? LOL.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

are those words in my post anywhere? i don't remember ever typing that. obviously saul was not the best point guard in the country, other point guards made choices not to come here. saul did not tell them not to come here and i would say that tubby did not tell them he wasn't going to play them because "hey my son is the pg and that is how it will be." tubby would have played the player that gave us the best chance to win a game and saul's senior year it was him. not hawkins, who was only a freshman at the time.

you just don't like saul for the simple fact that he was tubby's son. plain and simple. he did the job he was supposed to do, nothing less and nothing more. you want to sit there and blame saul for our problems now four years after he is gone? that's just ridiculous.

if all you want to do is complain about the past then you should just stop posting anything on here. other people on here want to celebrate the fact that we have won more games in the past three years than any other probram in the country. not you, you just want to sit there on your computer and complain that we have not been to a final four since '98, and say that it is some how saul smith's fault. am i happy we have not won a title in 8 years? no i'm not, but i am proud of the fact that we have as many games in the last three years as we have. that's what a true fan does. a true fan doesn't sit there and only talk about the negatives, we also revel in ALL the positives the we do have.

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More than one quality PG said they wern't coming to UK because of Saul. How many dozen more thought it, but didn't say it publicly? Programs like UK don't go into the dumpster overnight. It takes lots of bad decisions culminating into Rockbottom. Saul Smith is just one of many many many mistakes by Good old Tubby that have made us the laughing stock of college BBall this year.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

are you sure that was how they really felt? do you think that maybe they just wanted to go somewhere else and used saul as an excuse? the one pg that you have brought up on here has been duhon. there have people saying for years that he went to duke, not just because he wanted to go there, but because there were alumni there that wer going to help his family out. his mother got a job working for one such alumni when he got to durham making much more than the entry level pay that her job was paying at the time.

no i know that is speculatory to say that the only reason that he went to dulke was because his mother would have a job, but it is also speculatory on your part to say that the only reason he didn't come to UK was because of saul. there are more than one thing that goes into a kids decision on which school to go to.

here is a link that you might want to check out

http://www.truthaboutduke.com/encyc.php?encycid=40

maybe this will help clear some things up for you
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That's supposed to clear up the fact that Saul Smith should have never been the starting UK PG? That's supposed to clear up Tubby's poor decision making culminating in what is now ROCKBOTTOM???? Duhon was the ONLY option other than Saul? LOLOLOLOL. Next.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

90% of Colts fans polled IN the city of Indy, said this season was a FAILURE. It's good to know that only 10% or less accept mediocrity.

[Mr. Peanut]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: 90% of Colts fans polled IN the city of Indy, said this season was a FAILURE. It's good to know that only 10% or less accept mediocrity.

Its funny that this thread is still going on. Hope everyone is getting their frustrations out on this guy :D!

Hey genius... 100% ofUK fans are calling this season a failure so far.Is this point really lost on you?:lol:Find one single quote in any of the 30 Tubby bashing threads you've startedwhere anyone has claimed they are happy with the season.

The "Indy" equivalent of your claim would be to FIRE DUNGEE. I mean, the man has NEVER taken Indy to the NFL "final four". He and his QB clearly can't win the big ones.LOL.

Go poll indy fans on whether they think Dungee is "terrible."Ask them if they want to boot Manning. I'm sure there are a few "BuffaloWingswithRanch" typepeople expressing that craziness... but, they will be few and far between. Seasons ending without a championship are disappointing... they don't necessarily mean the people involved are "terrible." I'm sure even you realize that...Hell, maybe you don't.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Its funny that this thread is still going on. Hope everyone is getting their frustrations out on this guy :D!

Hey genius... 100% ofUK fans are calling this season a failure so far.Is this point really lost on you?:lol:Find one single quote in any of the 30 Tubby bashing threads you've startedwhere anyone has claimed they are happy with the season.

The "Indy" equivalent of your claim would be to FIRE DUNGEE. I mean, the man has NEVER taken Indy to the NFL "final four". He and his QB clearly can't win the big ones.LOL.

Go poll indy fans on whether they think Dungee is "terrible."Ask them if they want to boot Manning. I'm sure there are a few "BuffaloWingswithRanch" typepeople expressing that craziness... but, they will be few and far between. Seasons ending without a championship are disappointing... they don't necessarily mean the people involved are "terrible." I'm sure even you realize that...Hell, maybe you don't.

________________
You should try reading before talking so much. The Indy reference was to the 2 posters today that said a bunch of regular season wins were worth bragging about......... Apparently, 90 percent of Indiana does not agree with them.

[BrassowFan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: I know you did, that's why I quoted the above post because IMO what you said yesterday was fluff, the post today is your true feelings.

Admit it, when was the last time you supported Tubby? When was the last time you could honestly say that you were proud to have him as our coach? That he was doing a great job?

My bet is that it was 1998 and that it might have lasted until Saul started playing at UK.

It's ok... I know that there are fans like you out there... you've had to stay in the closet for 3 years and finally... finally you can come out because the world will probably agree with you.

Maybe you were right all along, I don't know, but any discussion about Tubby that negates any success that he's had is not an honest discussion of the facts. That's all that it comes down to.
___________________

I know you want to be right, but you are DEAD wrong my man. Tubby is a family man, so am I. I've waited patiently and even overlooked the Saul mess until NOW. He's run our program into the ground. PERIOD. It's just a difference of opinions. Don't act like you know what I'm thinking, because you clearly DO NOT. I've argued FOR Tubby with my dad, but no more. Nice guy finising last, PERIOD.

Then answer the question. Tubby is still a family man and I would like to know the last time you could honestly say that Tubby is a great coach and doing an incredible job at UK?

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

Then answer the question. Tubby is still a family man and I would like to know the last time you could honestly say that Tubby is a great coach and doing an incredible job at UK?
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Tubbby's done a great job SPORADICALY, with UK. An elite coach that is coaching the most storied basketball team in history, should not have so much drama, shouldn't be so inconsistent, should always have control of the situation, and sure shouldn't lose two in a row at home to mid-tier SEC teams, and 9 of the last 24.. Tubby hasn't been consistent: overall grade, C. Elite coaches shouldn't grade a C, EVER.

[BrassowFan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: Then answer the question. Tubby is still a family man and I would like to know the last time you could honestly say that Tubby is a great coach and doing an incredible job at UK?
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Tubbby's done a great job SPORADICALY, with UK. An elite coach that is coaching the most storied basketball team in history, should not have so much drama, shouldn't be so inconsistent, should always have control of the situation, and sure shouldn't lose two in a row at home to mid-tier SEC teams, and 9 of the last 24.. Tubby hasn't been consistent: overall grade, C. Elite coaches shouldn't grade a C, EVER.

You're dodging the question. When was the last time that you could honestly say that Tubby is a great coach and doing an incredible job at UK?

Even if you think that his performance is sporadic, I'm sure you thought that he was incredible during the '98 tournament. If so, was that the last time you felt this way? If you won't even give him credit for that, you've never supported the guy at all, IMO.

[kuttawa cat]

I say we do the whole board a favor and ask the mods to close this thread, can i get a 2ns to that motion, lol

[kybuc]

please close this thread..........................................

so much negativity gives me diarhea!

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

You're dodging the question. When was the last time that you could honestly say that Tubby is a great coach and doing an incredible job at UK?

Even if you think that his performance is sporadic, I'm sure you thought that he was incredible during the '98 tournament. If so, was that the last time you felt this way? If you won't even give him credit for that, you've never supported the guy at all, IMO.
_________

LOL. Of course he did a great job in 98. Who said he didn't? He did a great job last night.
Why does it take 3 straight losses for him to roll up his sleaves and do his job? He's done a great job here and there. What do you want? So does doing a great job in 98 make him worth 2 million for the rest of his life? Does it mean we can't criticize him when he does a poor job? Does it mean we have to meet at his house at 8am to rake his leaves and manicure his trees? Give me a break.

[BrassowFan]

BuffaloWingswithRanch wrote: LOL. Of course he did a great job in 98. Who said he didn't? He did a great job last night.
Why does it take 3 straight losses for him to roll up his sleaves and do his job? He's done a great job here and there. What do you want? So does doing a great job in 98 make him worth 2 million for the rest of his life? Does it mean we can't criticize him when he does a poor job? Does it mean we have to meet at his house at 8am to rake his leaves and manicure his trees? Give me a break.

It just means that those great jobs build credit with the fan base that can, and should, be used when things aren't so great. I think that it means when a team has three incredible seasons and then a questionable year, the first reaction isn't to fire the guy at the top. Of course that bank can run dry but IMO we're not at that point.

[BuffaloWingswithRanch]

It just means that those great jobs build credit with the fan base that can, and should, be used when things aren't so great. I think that it means when a team has three incredible seasons and then a questionable year, the first reaction isn't to fire the guy at the top. Of course that bank can run dry but IMO we're not at that point.
___________________

You've confused me wanting to face this mess head on with me wanting to fire Tubby. Not at all the case. Things would be much easier if Tubby stayed and teams were scared of us again. Where we differ is on "those great seasons" Those three great seasons just weren't that great in my opinion. The SEC was weak and NCAA results back that up, and we backed it up by flaming out in the tournament 2 of the three years. If Bogans was such a liablity in that Marquette game, why was he on the floor? Why was he our leading scorer in that game? :D If he was so hurt, why in the world didn't the rest of the team pick up the slack? Look at the stat line for that game, we flat didn't come to play. I clearly remember Tubby on the bench that game as they started to blow us out. He sat there looking confused and never left his seat at one point. It 's no big deal that we differ on how great that those seasons were. Good luck. I'm done on this one.