Probation Years versus The past 2 seasons.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

Won/Loss record:
Probation - 36-20 (64.29%)
Past 2 yrs - 38-20 (65.52%)

SEC record:
Probation - 24-12 (66.67%)
Past 2 yrs - 17-13 (56.67%)

Wins against ranked opponents:
Probation - 5-6 (45.45%)
Past 2 yrs - 3-12 (20.00%)

The probation years had only a hanful of scholarships the first year, we literally had walk-on tryouts to fill enough kids to have a team. During those years, the assistants would fill in as players just so the team could go through full-court drills.

The past two Tubby teams have had the benefit of a full shelf of players and last year the team had 3 McDonald's AA's aboard.

Someone, in a rational and educated manner, please explain to me how a coach with 8-10 Scholarship players can outperform a coach with a whole host of players that he recruited.

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


The above totals do not include last night's victory over Georgia University.

[catmandoo25]

If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

catmandoo25 wrote: If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.


Rick's first year had the scrubs of the team left. Farmer, Pelphry, Feldhaus, Woods and Miller were about it. Eventhough these kids would eventually become good players, neither had played big roles before and neither were recruited very hard by other schools- Woods was the best of the bunch. Pelphery once said, when Mills, Ellis and the other great players left, we stayed because "we had nowhere else to go". This wasn't like Aubrun when Bowden was there and they went undefeated on probaton.

Some of us think 2.5 Million should get you more wins in the SEC and overrall than a bunch of "leftovers" on a probation team.

[wade31]

JB, your post always seem like deja vu to me, I wonder why? LOL

[catmandoo25]

JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: catmandoo25 wrote: If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.


Rick's first year had the scrubs of the team left. Farmer, Pelphry, Feldhaus, Woods and Miller were about it. Eventhough these kids would eventually become good players, neither had played big roles before and neither were recruited very hard by other schools- Woods was the best of the bunch. Pelphery once said, when Mills, Ellis and the other great players left, we stayed because "we had nowhere else to go". This wasn't like Aubrun when Bowden was there and they went undefeated on probaton.

Some of us think 2.5 Million should get you more wins in the SEC and overrall than a bunch of "leftovers" on a probation team.

Like you said, they went on to become good players and had a solid 22-6 season on probation. Obviously they weren't a bunch of Leftovers afterall.

[audacious1]

I have no problem saying these past two years haven't been good. And "no" I'm not satisfied with our record during this period. I just don't believe blasting your team's coach in the middle of a season,booing your team's players andfrightening offrecruits is the best way to support your program. I'm justsilly that way.

[catmandoo25]

audacious1 wrote: I have no problem saying these past two years haven't been good. And "no" I'm not satisfied with our record during this period. I just don't believe blasting your team's coach in the middle of a season,booing your team's players andfrightening offrecruits is the best way to support your program. I'm justsilly that way.
No your not, All this negativity and outrage toward the coach has gained national attention and will cost us. It's not the best way to support the program during the season.

[DCWildcat]

By making this arguments, you're ceding the point that things other than final fours matter. Which, of course, is antithetical to what y'all have been espousing forever.

How many times did we have to hear that our regular season tear through three years didn't matter because we didn't get a Final Four? Tubby homers were stupid because, ultimately, only Final Fours matter. And all those Elite 8's? Those SEC championships? Those didn't matter because they aren't Final Fours.

But when you find a new way to gauge Tubby with 10 loss seasons, you quickly forget those arguments and jump on the new bandwagon. Regular season records suddenly become important, important enough that, as this post suggests, we can judge the entirety of a program in two years based on them.

The hypocrisy is disgusting.


(Then there's the laughable nature of singling out two years as representative of the whole shebangbang. Because Roy, K, Calhoun, etc., would absolutely shine when if they were measured by their two worst years).

[bret1555]

DCWildcat wrote: By making this arguments, you're ceding the point that things other than final fours matter. Which, of course, is antithetical to what y'all have been espousing forever.

How many times did we have to hear that our regular season tear through three years didn't matter because we didn't get a Final Four? Tubby homers were stupid because, ultimately, only Final Fours matter. And all those Elite 8's? Those SEC championships? Those didn't matter because they aren't Final Fours.

But when you find a new way to gauge Tubby with 10 loss seasons, you quickly forget those arguments and jump on the new bandwagon. Regular season records suddenly become important, important enough that, as this post suggests, we can judge the entirety of a program in two years based on them.

The hypocrisy is disgusting.


(Then there's the laughable nature of singling out two years as representative of the whole shebangbang. Because Roy, K, Calhoun, etc., would absolutely shine when if they were measured by their two worst years).


Be careful, DC, don't want to be saddled with the old "settling for mediocrity" label. Heaven forbid someone inject some good old common sense into the argument.

I, for one, think Tubby needs to do more. However, it seems that some of these guys just keep moving the bar on him.

[FatCatDaddy]

catmandoo25 wrote: If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.

Were you around then? Everyone jumped ship after probation, the cubbards were bare.

[Will Lavender]

FatCatDaddy wrote: catmandoo25 wrote: If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.

Were you around then? Everyone jumped ship after probation, the cubbards were bare.
Basketball is a funny sport though.

It's not like football. In football, it will often take a team a few years to right the ship after they're put on probation.

Basketball is so contingent upon individual talent that one player can make a huge different almost immediately. See Mashburn, Jamal.

[Brandon]

ocatmandoo25 wrote: If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.

Do you realize we were 13-19 the year before Pitino arrived? Pitino's 14-14 year was amazing considering what he had, and after bringing in Jamal Mashburn in his first full year of recruiting, we were 22-6 the next year.

The fact that we were on probation was what made that quick turnaround so remarkable.

[POEKLM]

JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: .

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


.

No, thanks. I would just like to be a fan. Just enjoy my team, my coaches and get ready to support them in Catlanta.

[TransientAlum]

POEKLM wrote: JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: .

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


.

No, thanks. I would just like to be a fan. Just enjoy my team, my coaches and get ready to support them in Catlanta.

Ditto.

[TrueblueCATfan]

JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: Won/Loss record:
Probation - 36-20 (64.29%)
Past 2 yrs - 38-20 (65.52%)

SEC record:
Probation - 24-12 (66.67%)
Past 2 yrs - 17-13 (56.67%)

Wins against ranked opponents:
Probation - 5-6 (45.45%)
Past 2 yrs - 3-12 (20.00%)

The probation years had only a hanful of scholarships the first year, we literally had walk-on tryouts to fill enough kids to have a team. During those years, the assistants would fill in as players just so the team could go through full-court drills.

The past two Tubby teams have had the benefit of a full shelf of players and last year the team had 3 McDonald's AA's aboard.

Someone, in a rational and educated manner, please explain to me how a coach with 8-10 Scholarship players can outperform a coach with a whole host of players that he recruited.

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


The above totals do not include last night's victory over Georgia University.

wellI believe you just did..............you have way too much time on your hands JB....digging all this stuff up

[wade31]

POEKLM wrote: JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: .

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


.

No, thanks. I would just like to be a fan. Just enjoy my team, my coaches and get ready to support them in Catlanta.
nm

[wildcat74]

JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: Won/Loss record:
Probation - 36-20 (64.29%)
Past 2 yrs - 38-20 (65.52%)

SEC record:
Probation - 24-12 (66.67%)
Past 2 yrs - 17-13 (56.67%)

Wins against ranked opponents:
Probation - 5-6 (45.45%)
Past 2 yrs - 3-12 (20.00%)

The probation years had only a hanful of scholarships the first year, we literally had walk-on tryouts to fill enough kids to have a team. During those years, the assistants would fill in as players just so the team could go through full-court drills.

The past two Tubby teams have had the benefit of a full shelf of players and last year the team had 3 McDonald's AA's aboard.

Someone, in a rational and educated manner, please explain to me how a coach with 8-10 Scholarship players can outperform a coach with a whole host of players that he recruited.

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


The above totals do not include last night's victory over Georgia University.




One thing you left out. The 14-14 team was actually FUN to watch, although they were all listened to and watched later on tape for me. The last two teams are deathly boring.

[POEKLM]

wildcat74 wrote:



One thing you left out. The 14-14 team was actually FUN to watch, although they were all listened to and watched later on tape for me. The last two teams are deathly boring.

If they are wearing blue and white , UK blue and white, they are never boring to me. If I feel like something is lagging I cheer louder...that's all.

[Blue4ever]

JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: Won/Loss record:
Probation - 36-20 (64.29%)
Past 2 yrs - 38-20 (65.52%)

SEC record:
Probation - 24-12 (66.67%)
Past 2 yrs - 17-13 (56.67%)

Wins against ranked opponents:
Probation - 5-6 (45.45%)
Past 2 yrs - 3-12 (20.00%)

The probation years had only a hanful of scholarships the first year, we literally had walk-on tryouts to fill enough kids to have a team. During those years, the assistants would fill in as players just so the team could go through full-court drills.

The past two Tubby teams have had the benefit of a full shelf of players and last year the team had 3 McDonald's AA's aboard.

Someone, in a rational and educated manner, please explain to me how a coach with 8-10 Scholarship players can outperform a coach with a whole host of players that he recruited.

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


The above totals do not include last night's victory over Georgia University.


As much as I admired the grit and desire of Farmer, Phelphrey and Feldhaus if Tubby brought in a recruiting class like this he'd be absolutely flayedby the bashers and the media.

Posts like this are never ending because the bashers will never acceptTubby or give him credit for anything.

[FatCatDaddy]

Blue4ever wrote: JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: Won/Loss record:
Probation - 36-20 (64.29%)
Past 2 yrs - 38-20 (65.52%)

SEC record:
Probation - 24-12 (66.67%)
Past 2 yrs - 17-13 (56.67%)

Wins against ranked opponents:
Probation - 5-6 (45.45%)
Past 2 yrs - 3-12 (20.00%)

The probation years had only a hanful of scholarships the first year, we literally had walk-on tryouts to fill enough kids to have a team. During those years, the assistants would fill in as players just so the team could go through full-court drills.

The past two Tubby teams have had the benefit of a full shelf of players and last year the team had 3 McDonald's AA's aboard.

Someone, in a rational and educated manner, please explain to me how a coach with 8-10 Scholarship players can outperform a coach with a whole host of players that he recruited.

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


The above totals do not include last night's victory over Georgia University.


As much as I admired the grit and desire of Farmer, Phelphrey and Feldhaus if Tubby brought in a recruiting class like this he'd be absolutely flayedby the bashers and the media.

Posts like this are never ending because the bashers will never acceptTubby or give him credit for anything.



If Tubby brought in a recruiting class like that we would have a losing record. Tubby could not have done what Rick did when you arrived.

[POEKLM]

FatCatDaddy wrote:
If Tubby brought in a recruiting class like that we would have a losing record. Tubby could not have done what Rick did when you arrived.


Well on the same token Rick couldn't win a championship with the players that Tubby got left with. The NBA'rs left. We were predicted to do nothing that year. We became the comeback cats that won a championship under Orlando Tubby Smith.

[Blue4ever]

FatCatDaddy wrote: Blue4ever wrote: JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: Won/Loss record:
Probation - 36-20 (64.29%)
Past 2 yrs - 38-20 (65.52%)

SEC record:
Probation - 24-12 (66.67%)
Past 2 yrs - 17-13 (56.67%)

Wins against ranked opponents:
Probation - 5-6 (45.45%)
Past 2 yrs - 3-12 (20.00%)

The probation years had only a hanful of scholarships the first year, we literally had walk-on tryouts to fill enough kids to have a team. During those years, the assistants would fill in as players just so the team could go through full-court drills.

The past two Tubby teams have had the benefit of a full shelf of players and last year the team had 3 McDonald's AA's aboard.

Someone, in a rational and educated manner, please explain to me how a coach with 8-10 Scholarship players can outperform a coach with a whole host of players that he recruited.

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


The above totals do not include last night's victory over Georgia University.


As much as I admired the grit and desire of Farmer, Phelphrey and Feldhaus if Tubby brought in a recruiting class like this he'd be absolutely flayedby the bashers and the media.

Posts like this are never ending because the bashers will never acceptTubby or give him credit for anything.



If Tubby brought in a recruiting class like that we would have a losing record. Tubby could not have done what Rick did when you arrived.


Moot point because we'll never have the opportunity to know what Tubby would have done with that group. Just like when I hear people say "Pitino would have never won the NCAA with the '97-'98" team. Now how in the heck would you ever know that?

[POEKLM]

Moot point because we'll never have the opportunity to know what Tubby would have done with that group. Just like when I hear people say "Pitino would have never won the NCAA with the '97-'98" team. Now how in the heck would you ever know that?


You seem to think Kentucky fans need to use logic or something.;)
Are you new here?:P

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

Will Lavender wrote: FatCatDaddy wrote: catmandoo25 wrote: If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.

Were you around then? Everyone jumped ship after probation, the cubbards were bare.
Basketball is a funny sport though.

It's not like football. In football, it will often take a team a few years to right the ship after they're put on probation.

Basketball is so contingent upon individual talent that one player can make a huge different almost immediately. See Mashburn, Jamal.

Mash wasn't on the 14-14 team and was only a freshmen (averaged about 10pts) on the 22-6 team (that had the best SEC record).

[LiveBlue]

double post

[LiveBlue]

POEKLM wrote: FatCatDaddy wrote:
If Tubby brought in a recruiting class like that we would have a losing record. Tubby could not have done what Rick did when you arrived.


Well on the same token Rick couldn't win a championship with the players that Tubby got left with. The NBA'rs left. We were predicted to do nothing that year. We became the comeback cats that won a championship under Orlando Tubby Smith.

THANK YOU! I bring up that point all the time around here, at work, at home, and it just gets shrugged off. Because Tubby Smith can do no good, you know?

How come Ricky P. couldn't win the '97 title with pretty much the same team, +Ron Mercer?Tubby may not have recruited those players, but you have to give credit where credit is due.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

Blue4ever wrote: JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: Won/Loss record:
Probation - 36-20 (64.29%)
Past 2 yrs - 38-20 (65.52%)

SEC record:
Probation - 24-12 (66.67%)
Past 2 yrs - 17-13 (56.67%)

Wins against ranked opponents:
Probation - 5-6 (45.45%)
Past 2 yrs - 3-12 (20.00%)

The probation years had only a hanful of scholarships the first year, we literally had walk-on tryouts to fill enough kids to have a team. During those years, the assistants would fill in as players just so the team could go through full-court drills.

The past two Tubby teams have had the benefit of a full shelf of players and last year the team had 3 McDonald's AA's aboard.

Someone, in a rational and educated manner, please explain to me how a coach with 8-10 Scholarship players can outperform a coach with a whole host of players that he recruited.

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


The above totals do not include last night's victory over Georgia University.


As much as I admired the grit and desire of Farmer, Phelphrey and Feldhaus if Tubby brought in a recruiting class like this he'd be absolutely flayedby the bashers and the media.

Posts like this are never ending because the bashers will never acceptTubby or give him credit for anything.

Sutton brought these kids in and they were what was left at the bottom of the barrell for Rick to use when he got here. If you want more proof of Rick's recruiting see- Mash, Delk, Magloire, Sheppard, Mohammed, Walker, Epps, Prickett, Padgett, Turner, Anderson, Mercer on and on and on.

Point of the post is a bunch of scrubs on probation did more than the highest paid coach in America is doing with 2-3 McDonald's AA's and I want some Tubby supporters to give me a viable reason as to how that is possible or should be excepted.

[UKhoov]

LiveBlue wrote: POEKLM wrote: FatCatDaddy wrote:
If Tubby brought in a recruiting class like that we would have a losing record. Tubby could not have done what Rick did when you arrived.


Well on the same token Rick couldn't win a championship with the players that Tubby got left with. The NBA'rs left. We were predicted to do nothing that year. We became the comeback cats that won a championship under Orlando Tubby Smith.

THANK YOU! I bring up that point all the time around here, at work, at home, and it just gets shrugged off. Because Tubby Smith can do no good, you know?

How come Ricky P. couldn't win the '97 title with pretty much the same team, +Ron Mercer?Tubby may not have recruited those players, but you have to give credit where credit is due.
You'll only get credit from guys on Tubbys side of the fence, and even if they do speak up you'll then have to wade through all the guys against him to find it.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

LiveBlue wrote: POEKLM wrote: FatCatDaddy wrote:
If Tubby brought in a recruiting class like that we would have a losing record. Tubby could not have done what Rick did when you arrived.


Well on the same token Rick couldn't win a championship with the players that Tubby got left with. The NBA'rs left. We were predicted to do nothing that year. We became the comeback cats that won a championship under Orlando Tubby Smith.

THANK YOU! I bring up that point all the time around here, at work, at home, and it just gets shrugged off. Because Tubby Smith can do no good, you know?

How come Ricky P. couldn't win the '97 title with pretty much the same team, +Ron Mercer?Tubby may not have recruited those players, but you have to give credit where credit is due.

Rick lost Derek Anderson to a knee injury (the same way Tubby lost Bogans in 03 before the Marquette game).

Rick made it to OT of the national tilte game- yeah, what a horrible season that I would kill for right now.

[POEKLM]

That 14-14 season and the next one I think were nothing short of miraculous. Ricky P. didn't do it alone. And it didn't bring it the recruits on his own. Seems he had hired one Orlando Tubby Smith to do some of that. Oh but......sorry I brought it up.

[TrueblueCATfan]

POEKLM wrote: That 14-14 season and the next one I think were nothing short of miraculous. Ricky P. didn't do it alone. And it didn't bring it the recruits on his own. Seems he had hired one Orlando Tubby Smith to do some of that. Oh but......sorry I brought it up.
some seem to forget that Tubby was on Pitino's staff..i read somewhere along time ago that Tubby was the one that recruited Mashburn

[matt colvin]

LiveBlue wrote:
"How come Ricky P. couldn't win the '97 title with pretty much the same team, +Ron Mercer?Tubby may not have recruited those players, but you have to give credit where credit is due."

Actually, there were quite a few differences in the '96 and '97 teams.

'97--No Delk, McCarty, Walker, Pope, and Shep red-shirted that year. They did recieve transfer Heshimu Evans. And of course DA was injured the last half.

With that said, I will give credit to Rick for overcoming some pretty big losses and making it back to the title game :thumbup

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/mattco111/RickyPinplaid.jpg

[RaleighCat]

TrueblueCATfan wrote: POEKLM wrote: That 14-14 season and the next one I think were nothing short of miraculous. Ricky P. didn't do it alone. And it didn't bring it the recruits on his own. Seems he had hired one Orlando Tubby Smith to do some of that. Oh but......sorry I brought it up.
some seem to forget that Tubby was on Pitino's staff..i read somewhere along time ago that Tubby was the one that recruited Mashburn
Someone please remind Tubby.

[justford]

What I have noticed on this board is those that like Tubby as our coach will ignore facts as to why he shouldgo and those that don't like Tubby as our coach will ignore facts as to why he should stay. A never ending argument.;)

[DCWildcat]

JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: LiveBlue wrote: POEKLM wrote: FatCatDaddy wrote:
If Tubby brought in a recruiting class like that we would have a losing record. Tubby could not have done what Rick did when you arrived.


Well on the same token Rick couldn't win a championship with the players that Tubby got left with. The NBA'rs left. We were predicted to do nothing that year. We became the comeback cats that won a championship under Orlando Tubby Smith.

THANK YOU! I bring up that point all the time around here, at work, at home, and it just gets shrugged off. Because Tubby Smith can do no good, you know?

How come Ricky P. couldn't win the '97 title with pretty much the same team, +Ron Mercer?Tubby may not have recruited those players, but you have to give credit where credit is due.

Rick lost Derek Anderson to a knee injury (the same way Tubby lost Bogans in 03 before the Marquette game).

Rick made it to OT of the national tilte game- yeah, what a horrible season that I would kill for right now.


Anderson was injured midseason, Bogans was injured during the 3rd round game against Wisconsin. Pitino had half a season to adjust the gameplan, while Tubby had all of one day. So no, it was not "the same way" at all.

[catmandoo25]

Brandon wrote: ocatmandoo25 wrote: If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.

Do you realize we were 13-19 the year before Pitino arrived? Pitino's 14-14 year was amazing considering what he had, and after bringing in Jamal Mashburn in his first full year of recruiting, we were 22-6 the next year.

The fact that we were on probation was what made that quick turnaround so remarkable.

My UK history is a little slippery since I was so young then. Sorry about that. Maybe I was just a little tirede of fans beating dead horses aka the Tubby debate and wantedd to come back with an intelligent response, but failed. Should have done some research

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

catmandoo25 wrote: Brandon wrote: ocatmandoo25 wrote: If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.

Do you realize we were 13-19 the year before Pitino arrived? Pitino's 14-14 year was amazing considering what he had, and after bringing in Jamal Mashburn in his first full year of recruiting, we were 22-6 the next year.

The fact that we were on probation was what made that quick turnaround so remarkable.

My UK history is a little slippery since I was so young then. Sorry about that. Maybe I was just a little tirede of fans beating dead horses aka the Tubby debate and wantedd to come back with an intelligent response, but failed. Should have done some research
OK, Rick started with a bare cabinet and 7 years later had 3 final fours and had only 1 10+ loss season. Tubby started with quite a bit of talent and 10 years later has only 1 Final Four and now will have 5 ten-loss seasons- care to compare the overrall stats instead of nick-picking them. That's all we can do when comparing the two and one was hired to replace the other-------simple as that, meat and potatoes of the comparison.

[catmandoo25]

JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: catmandoo25 wrote: Brandon wrote: ocatmandoo25 wrote: If we were 36-20 in the probation years then that would indicate that we had a 22-6 season and were 14-14 in Pitino's first year, correct?

Like football, my freshman year 2002, we were 7-5 yet we were on probation. We had yet to feel the negative effects because we still had the quality players in place and they had not graduated. If you have 8-9 scholarship players who can hoop, then you have all you need. When we graduated or lost even more of those who I'm sure had been successfuland brought in the unforgettables in their younger years, we struggled hence the 14-14 season.

No question Tubby has underachieved the last two years though.

Do you realize we were 13-19 the year before Pitino arrived? Pitino's 14-14 year was amazing considering what he had, and after bringing in Jamal Mashburn in his first full year of recruiting, we were 22-6 the next year.

The fact that we were on probation was what made that quick turnaround so remarkable.

My UK history is a little slippery since I was so young then. Sorry about that. Maybe I was just a little tirede of fans beating dead horses aka the Tubby debate and wantedd to come back with an intelligent response, but failed. Should have done some research
OK, Rick started with a bare cabinet and 7 years later had 3 final fours and had only 1 10+ loss season. Tubby started with quite a bit of talent and 10 years later has only 1 Final Four and now will have 5 ten-loss seasons- care to compare the overrall stats instead of nick-picking them. That's all we can do when comparing the two and one was hired to replace the other-------simple as that, meat and potatoes of the comparison.
Hey, I don't think anyone has ever argued that Tubby has done as good a job a Rick did. However, I now have my doubts about NITINO and think he may have jsut hit a hot streak at UK and gotten lucky with recruiting. I mean, he's almost got as may NIt appearances as NCAA appearances at UL

[RP_McMurphy]

The big difference between Tubby and Rick is that Rick recognized his weaknesses as a coach and filled his staff with coaches that would compensate for areas in which he was weak. Unfortunately it seems Tubby uses his assistant coach positions to help old friends and acquaintances with good jobs.

[BigblueDrew]

Another big difference was Rick was uniquely suited for the job as head coach of a school of UK's stature. He had the drive, the coaching skill, the charisma and the people and media skills so neccessary here. Tubby Smith lacks in MANY of these areas and our program shows it.

[Stucat]

Tubby Smith must be a good coach as I remember the year he surprised everybody and Kentucky was a Number 1 seed. Also as I recall Tubby was awardedthe coach of the year forhis performance that year. I think we were knocked out of the tournament by UAB but Tubby did one heck of a job. I would be satisfied with the old Tubby back because the new Tubby seems to be confused as to why we are losing games we should have won.

[bluegrassking]

Blue4ever wrote: JOHN BLUEBLOOD wrote: Won/Loss record:
Probation - 36-20 (64.29%)
Past 2 yrs - 38-20 (65.52%)

SEC record:
Probation - 24-12 (66.67%)
Past 2 yrs - 17-13 (56.67%)

Wins against ranked opponents:
Probation - 5-6 (45.45%)
Past 2 yrs - 3-12 (20.00%)

The probation years had only a hanful of scholarships the first year, we literally had walk-on tryouts to fill enough kids to have a team. During those years, the assistants would fill in as players just so the team could go through full-court drills.

The past two Tubby teams have had the benefit of a full shelf of players and last year the team had 3 McDonald's AA's aboard.

Someone, in a rational and educated manner, please explain to me how a coach with 8-10 Scholarship players can outperform a coach with a whole host of players that he recruited.

I'm curious, anyone care to tackle this?


The above totals do not include last night's victory over Georgia University.


As much as I admired the grit and desire of Farmer, Phelphrey and Feldhaus if Tubby brought in a recruiting class like this he'd be absolutely flayedby the bashers and the media.

Posts like this are never ending because the bashers will never acceptTubby or give him credit for anything.


Since we are not on probation and have not been in many yearsthe flaying by the fans and mediawould be rightful.

Why is it so damned hard to understand the difference in the situations?

And you certainly DO NOT GET IT. 90%+ (myself included) once fondly accepted Tubby. You all get tired of "negitive" posts but act like these excuses aren't stale as 100 year old Wonder Bread.

When the issues are resolved the posts on themwill cease.