All of the "I love Tubby" assertions [Archive] - Wildcat Nation Forums

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 12:22 PM

Many of the proponents of continuing Smiths tenure at UK assert that recruits absolutely love good ol' Poppa Orlando. He's a great role model and molder of men and all of the other mumbo jumbo that goes along with that.

Question:

If recruits love Smith so much, why do over half of his recruits bolt?

Why do so many of his more talented recruits rail against him? (Stone, Carruth, Rondo, Bradley, Crawford, Morris, etc)

Why do so many of his kids get into trouble? (Fitch, Daniels, Stone, Parker, Camara, Allison, etc)

Why does it seem that Smith can not relate to his athletes and why is the problem so much more acute with the more talented athletes that he recruits?

This is a guy that many of his proponents say that recruits absolutely love. "Patrick Patterson loves him and wants to play for UK only if Smith is still here" many of you say on this forum.

Tubbys problems with his players are well documented. The individual and team problems are well documented. The mass transfers out of the program are well documented.

You guys say that recruits love Tubby. So what happens to make so many of them lose respect for Tubby and lose that "love" that makes them send faxes and leave at Christmas break (at least twice in his tenure) and rebel in various ways.

SouthBeachWildcat

03-02-2007, 12:36 PM

you can name a handful of players in 10 years of coaching...........congrats

sojourner

03-02-2007, 12:41 PM

Are you surprised that Stone, Carruth and Rondo railed against him? Didn't Stone and Carruth do the same at their next stop(s)? What is your point here? As far as Bradley, Morris and Crawford, where is your evidence? That at least two of them tried to leave? Big deal. These kids are all told they are the greatest thing in the world and then they come to college and find out they aren't. It is called growing up.

Don't know how well Tubby relates to his kids, how well did Pitino relate? How well did Rupp relate? Hell, did Rupp even care to relate? What is this basketball or a new age focus group?

Disagree thatany moreof Tubby's kids get in trouble compared to other schools. I remember all of the fun Huggy Bear had at UC and wasn't it just recently that Pitino was having his share of problems? You just focus on Tubby because he is in front of you.

Speaking of bolting, even Duke and UNChave had their share of transfers.

All of this is well documented as well, if you cared to look. But you don't.

Josh

03-02-2007, 12:42 PM

It just seems like any time there is some sort of good vibe going on (congratulating the senior class, threads about supporting the coach and team), someone wants to come on here and question things and bring the mood down, seemingly just to get people riled up.

This thread wouldn't be so bad if these discussions hadn't already happened 1,000 times. It's the same old song and dance every time.

UKhoov

03-02-2007, 12:59 PM

Scars wrote: It just seems like any time there is some sort of good vibe going on (congratulating the senior class, threads about supporting the coach and team), someone wants to come on here and question things and bring the mood down, seemingly just to get people riled up.

This thread wouldn't be so bad if these discussions hadn't already happened 1,000 times. It's the same old song and dance every time.

Its realy the same from both sides though too...

As soon as a thread like this pops up (which is in all reality regurgutated material) both sides of the arguement just repost the same thing they have a million times over already.

BlueHeretic....although I dont agree with almost 99% of what you post, you certainly make it hard to dispute against your points. Keep it up.

jaspcat

03-02-2007, 01:04 PM

Go Cats - Beat Florida!

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 01:05 PM

Yeah, you guys are correct. There are no problems at all.

Bradleys gf didn't wear a t-shirt with "Free Ramel" on it.

Fitch never had problems.

There are no problems between Tubby and his players. There was no team Turmoil I or II.

That handful of players equates to roughly half of the recruits that Smith has brought to UK.

And you guys are correct, no team needs harmony. Tubby in no way needs to have all of his team on board. He only needs half.

The villains are those damn players. Tubby is the Easter Bunny and is always good.

I can see why nothing changes with Smith. If he is anything like you guys, he is in complete denial.

rickdacatkilla

03-02-2007, 01:06 PM

"TubbyBall, where a loss is almost a win! And it ain't even Tubbys fault. I wrote a song about it. Wanna hear it? Here it goes"...

I wanna hearyour song! Hope it's better than catman2000's

LiveBlue

03-02-2007, 01:08 PM

blueheretic wrote: Yeah, you guys are correct. There are no problems at all.

Bradleys gf didn't wear a t-shirt with "Free Ramel" on it.

Fitch never had problems.

There are no problems between Tubby and his players. There was no team Turmoil I or II.

That handful of players equates to roughly half of the recruits that Smith has brought to UK.

And you guys are correct, no team needs harmony. Tubby in no way needs to have all of his team on board. He only needs half.

The villains are those damn players. Tubby is the Easter Bunny and is always good.

I can see why nothing changes with Smith. If he is anything like you guys, he is in complete denial.

What's up with that? I have never heard anything about that...

And FYI, Ramel doesn't have a"girlfriend" he has "girlfriends" because he is Smooth. :lol:

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 01:09 PM

sojourner wrote: Are you surprised that Stone, Carruth and Rondo railed against him? Didn't Stone and Carruth do the same at their next stop(s)?
Then why were they recruited and brought to the team? Only to destroy the chemistry. Carruth was probably 80% responsible for the troubles of Team Turmoil. Carruth, Chiles and Stoned Parker.

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 01:10 PM

LiveBlue wrote: blueheretic wrote: Yeah, you guys are correct. There are no problems at all.

Bradleys gf didn't wear a t-shirt with "Free Ramel" on it.

Fitch never had problems.

There are no problems between Tubby and his players. There was no team Turmoil I or II.

That handful of players equates to roughly half of the recruits that Smith has brought to UK.

And you guys are correct, no team needs harmony. Tubby in no way needs to have all of his team on board. He only needs half.

The villains are those damn players. Tubby is the Easter Bunny and is always good.

I can see why nothing changes with Smith. If he is anything like you guys, he is in complete denial.

What's up with that? I have never heard anything about that...

And FYI, Ramel doesn't have "girlfriend" he has "girlfriends" because he is Smooth. :lol:

She wore it several times last year. It was well discussed here.

UKhoov

03-02-2007, 01:12 PM

blueheretic wrote: Tubby is the Easter Bunny and is always good.

Im not denying that he hasnt had any problems. Heck there are probably more youleft off thelist, and they are all pretty much true. Im just tired of having to hear the same things over and over. Its not gonna change anything today, or tomorrow.

Im just asking for some patience until the end of the year, I mean youve waited 10yrs, another month isnt gonna kill ya is it?

Easter Bunny....now thats funny.:lol:

LiveBlue

03-02-2007, 01:12 PM

blueheretic wrote: LiveBlue wrote: blueheretic wrote: Yeah, you guys are correct. There are no problems at all.

Bradleys gf didn't wear a t-shirt with "Free Ramel" on it.

Fitch never had problems.

There are no problems between Tubby and his players. There was no team Turmoil I or II.

That handful of players equates to roughly half of the recruits that Smith has brought to UK.

And you guys are correct, no team needs harmony. Tubby in no way needs to have all of his team on board. He only needs half.

The villains are those damn players. Tubby is the Easter Bunny and is always good.

I can see why nothing changes with Smith. If he is anything like you guys, he is in complete denial.

What's up with that? I have never heard anything about that...

And FYI, Ramel doesn't have "girlfriend" he has "girlfriends" because he is Smooth. :lol:

She wore it several times last year. It was well discussed here.

Oh, I wasn't around thesepartslast year, I was over at WCF,soI guess I missed out on the fun. I only brought thatup because I've really only heard and/or seen positives things come from Ramel, it surprises me a bit is all.

cnice11

03-02-2007, 01:19 PM

Ok

(1)Crawford was young and homesick.

(2)Carruth was just a young punk. He didnt make it at his next stop either.

(3)I think the other kids just liked to party too much. Underage or not, thats how college kids are.
(4)Morris just thought he was hot shi*. He thought he was much better than he was. I dont think it would have been a big deal for him to try it, it was just the agent thing that threw me off.

(5)Rondo went pro. He was smart enough to not get an agent. A person goes to college to pursue what they want to do, playing ball was what he wanted to do. Plus, he went first round.

But, I will give you credit, Tubby was the one that recruited these guys.

Josh

03-02-2007, 01:20 PM

UKhoov wrote: Scars wrote: It just seems like any time there is some sort of good vibe going on (congratulating the senior class, threads about supporting the coach and team), someone wants to come on here and question things and bring the mood down, seemingly just to get people riled up.

This thread wouldn't be so bad if these discussions hadn't already happened 1,000 times. It's the same old song and dance every time.

Its realy the same from both sides though too...

As soon as a thread like this pops up (which is in all reality regurgutated material) both sides of the arguement just repost the same thing they have a million times over already.

I guess my point is that I just never understood how taking shots at Tubby (and subsequently, the fans that support him because he is coaching our team) amounts to anything, especially at this time of year. It's just not healthy to constantly be so negative. Sure, it's a message board and we're free to have our opinions, but I think at times it's important to step back and say, "Wow, I need to relax a little bit" (Ironically, what I've just said has been said over and over too).

I tend to try to stay away from the topics myself because nothing is ever accomplished. Those who support Smith get trashed because we do so (AKA, called being in "denial," whatever that means) and those who want Smith gone stop at nothing to be obnoxious with their opinions.

UKhoov

03-02-2007, 01:31 PM

UKhoov wrote: blueheretic wrote: Tubby is the Easter Bunny and is always good.

Im not denying that he hasnt had any problems. Heck there are probably more youleft off thelist, and they are all pretty much true. Im just tired of having to hear the same things over and over. Its not gonna change anything today, or tomorrow.

Im just asking for some patience until the end of the year, I mean youve waited 10yrs, another month isnt gonna kill ya is it?

Easter Bunny....now thats funny.:lol:

I know I'm quoting myself but, I know what your saying. And your right it isnt goning to accomplish anything. These are discussion boards and are used more often than not as a way to vent (which I know has been said before). Especially during times likewe are experiencing now. The problem we have though is that we vent LOUD enough and outsiders start to hear us.

You have to agree it is better than yelling at the dog, because he doesnt respond.

TrueblueCATfan

03-02-2007, 01:36 PM

Hey BH......in another post you said Tubby was GOD now he is the Easter Bunny..whick is it he can't be both:ggrin:

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 01:40 PM

maybe you are taking it wrong. perhaps, I'm trying to get a feel for why people think that Tubby can get it done still.

After ten years of the same stuff....

I'm genuinely interested. I just don't get it.

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 01:41 PM

TrueblueCATfan wrote: Hey BH......in another post you said Tubby was GOD now he is the Easter Bunny..whick is it he can't be both:ggrin:

I thought GOD was the Easter Bunny.

Littlemeyer

03-02-2007, 01:46 PM

Scars wrote: I tend to try to stay away from the topics myself because nothing is ever accomplished. Those who support Smith get trashed because we do so (AKA, called being in "denial," whatever that means) and those who want Smith gone stop at nothing to be obnoxious with their opinions.

You're a quitter...

Don't give up on the team...

Fairweather fan...

You're not a real fan because...

True fans wouldn't say that...

That's just a small example of things I've read on this board from the "other" side. I agree that there's a faction of fans who stop at nothing to be obnoxious with their opinions, but I don't think either side has the market cornered. It goes both ways...

It's gotten pretty bad lately. I've contemplated taking a break from posting until the season is over because of it. I doubt I will,but I do miss WCN's trademark discussions. There's not much real basketball discussion going on anymore.

And Scars, PLEASE believe me, this isn't directed at you. I just chose a portion of your post to bring this up. I enjoy reading your posts.Always intelligent and fair...:thumbup

Josh

03-02-2007, 02:15 PM

Littlemeyer wrote: Scars wrote: I tend to try to stay away from the topics myself because nothing is ever accomplished. Those who support Smith get trashed because we do so (AKA, called being in "denial," whatever that means) and those who want Smith gone stop at nothing to be obnoxious with their opinions.

You're a quitter...

Don't give up on the team...

Fairweather fan...

You're not a real fan because...

True fans wouldn't say that...

That's just a small example of things I've read on this board from the "other" side. I agree that there's a faction of fans who stop at nothing to be obnoxious with their opinions, but I don't think either side has the market cornered. It goes both ways...

It's gotten pretty bad lately. I've contemplated taking a break from posting until the season is over because of it. I doubt I will,but I do miss WCN's trademark discussions. There's not much real basketball discussion going on anymore.

And Scars, PLEASE believe me, this isn't directed at you. I just chose a portion of your post to bring this up. I enjoy reading your posts.Always intelligent and fair...:thumbup

No problem, Little. :cool:

I can certainly agree that both sides can cross over a certain line at times (questioning the loyalty of fans, as you mentioned). I think when it comes down to it, whether someone wants Tubby here or not, that it's important to continue to show in your posts that you fully support the team and the staff because they are here right now and games are still being played. I think the proper time to bring stuff like this up would be after the season is completely over with and we know for sure what our record is, how we ended up in the NCAA's, what recruits we will have coming in, etc. That's just my opinion, though.

Name calling from both sides shouldn't go on, though. I agree, it is about as bad as I've seen it in the year I've been with WCN. Hopefully things will calm down and we can get on with the basketball discussion, as there are a lot of things to discuss. Florida's coming up, SEC tournament seedings, all of the other conference tournaments. Other than Christmas, this is my favorite time of year.

:ggrin:

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 02:20 PM

This kinda fall under this as well.

Redshirts.

Alleyne should have been redshirted and bulked up.

Same for Carter.

Ramon Harris should have been redshirted this year.

Woo probably would have benefitted from a redshirt year.

Sims probably would have and might not have transferred.

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 02:21 PM

How many athletes has Tubby recruited to UK that should have been OVC or similiar?

Tackett, Blevins, Williams, Stockton, Carrier.

Josh

03-02-2007, 02:22 PM

blueheretic wrote: This kinda fall under this as well.

Redshirts.

Alleyne should have been redshirted and bulked up.

Same for Carter.

Ramon Harris should have been redshirted this year.

Woo probably would have benefitted from a redshirt year.

Sims probably would have and might not have transferred.

I agree with this, heretic. Ramon would have greatly benefitted being a redshirt, especially with him joining the team as late as he did.

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 02:26 PM

Scars wrote: I think the proper time to bring stuff like this up would be after the season is completely over with and we know for sure what our record is, how we ended up in the NCAA's, what recruits we will have coming in, etc. That's just my opinion, though.
The problem with this is that once the season is over, people will be saying that no one should voice a complaint because it is the summer recruiting season.

When a change is necessary, when is the time to bring it up? The answer from the proponents of Smith is never. Smith should never be questioned or brought to account because it hurts recruiting or the team or Smiths feelings. There is always a reason to stay quiet from the Smith point of view.

From my point of view, the time is now to voice our complaints. Nothing can hurt the program as much as continued tenure for Smith.

Josh

03-02-2007, 02:34 PM

blueheretic wrote: Scars wrote: I think the proper time to bring stuff like this up would be after the season is completely over with and we know for sure what our record is, how we ended up in the NCAA's, what recruits we will have coming in, etc. That's just my opinion, though.
The problem with this is that once the season is over, people will be saying that no one should voice a complaint because it is the summer recruiting season.

When a change is necessary, when is the time to bring it up? The answer from the proponents of Smith is never. Smith should never be questioned or brought to account because it hurts recruiting or the team or Smiths feelings. There is always a reason to stay quiet from the Smith point of view.

From my point of view, the time is now to voice our complaints. Nothing can hurt the program as much as continued tenure for Smith.

I believe that if there has ever been a season to question whether or not Tubby should continue to be the coach, it's this one. He did get a pass last year, and I've even went on to say that if Tubby had another season like last year, I didn't believe that he would be the coach going into next season. I believe Tubby is a good coach, and if he get the ship going in the right direction, I want him to be the coach. If not, then it's obvious that the program should move in another direction.

The only reason I believe the talks should go on hold is because we really don't know what's going to happen in the tournament. This team *could* get on some type of roll and make a huge leap into the Final Four. But, they could also go out in the first or second round. I think it's better to wait until we know for sure what this teams fate is before bringing the discussion out in the open.

I mean, a few people are going to talk and are going to bring it up. That's been happening for 10 seasons. But this is the first time that I can ever remember it being this bad with the questions of Tubby leaving. It's gotten so bad that every national sports show has discussed it. I just think that overall, that's not a good thing for the program to be under that much scrutiny at this time of the season. Though, if something good can come from that happening, perhaps that will light a fire under Smith to get back to his ways from just a few seasons ago.

Overall, I just want intelligent discussion. No matter what each side believes, I just want to talk about it in a healthy manner.

Craig the Blueheart

03-02-2007, 02:38 PM

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 02:49 PM

OK worst case scenario, we hire the anti-Christ and he uses Basketball to brainswash the State and uses Kentucky as a platform to start Armageddon and conquer the world.

Or....Mitch could hire Matt Doherty and Mike Davis as co-Coaches. Personally, I'd rather have the anti-Christ.

Come on. Do ya really think that is going to be part of the search? Mitch makes it a priority. Future UK Coach should cheat and get UK Basketball the Death Penalty. From poet to Legionaire of Future Doom in about 5 posts.

It's your prerogative to reserve judgement until after the season ends and Tubby ends with his 22 wins and 12 losses. No problem.

It's mine to post my opinions and discuss that which I think is worthy of discussion.

NOWIS

03-02-2007, 02:58 PM

Since I agree with BH, UK will never again play in a final four with Tubby as coach, I say now is the time to complain. It has obviously gotten Mitch's attention.

Craig the Blueheart

03-02-2007, 03:00 PM

blueheretic wrote: OK worst case scenario, we hire the anti-Christ and he uses Basketball to brainswash the State and uses Kentucky as a platform to start Armageddon and conquer the world.

Or....Mitch could hire Matt Doherty and Mike Davis as co-Coaches. Personally, I'd rather have the anti-Christ.

Come on. Do ya really think that is going to be part of the search? Mitch makes it a priority. Future UK Coach should cheat and get UK Basketball the Death Penalty. From poet to Legionaire of Future Doom in about 5 posts.

It's your prerogative to reserve judgement until after the season ends and Tubby ends with his 22 wins and 12 losses. No problem.

It's mine to post my opinions and discuss that which I think is worthy of discussion.

I never said that it wasn't, but I am glad you have decided to state the obvious, because several here probably needed to be reminded. I really do love these forums, as they give everyone a chance to voice their opinion if they so choose. Perhaps I would find this particular discussion more gainful if you did not employ such a faceitious rhetoric.

Craig the Blueheart

03-02-2007, 03:01 PM

cdrw wrote: The best cure for chickenpox is to eat three carrots and drink a glass of cranberry juice.

I had always heard that.

RaleighCat

03-02-2007, 03:04 PM

Craig the Blueheart wrote: Perhaps I would find this particular discussion more gainful if you did not employ such a faceitious rhetoric.

Ummmm, did I miss WCN turning into the Harvard-of-message-boards?

Speak English, please. I'm from Kentucky remember.

SouthBeachWildcat

03-02-2007, 03:04 PM

blueheretic wrote: How many athletes has Tubby recruited to UK that should have been OVC or similiar?

Tackett, Blevins, Williams, Stockton, Carrier.

how many of those kids are from kentucky in whom he was trying to give a chance? We complain about not getting enough in state kids.........then we complain about getting the number one class in the nation from out of state (Craw, Morris, Rondo, Bradley) when we should have got the kids in the area (Lofton, Brewer)........its a lose/lose situation with some fans, especially when we all use hindsight.

Craig the Blueheart

03-02-2007, 03:07 PM

RaleighCat wrote: Craig the Blueheart wrote: Perhaps I would find this particular discussion more gainful if you did not employ such a faceitious rhetoric.

Ummmm, did I miss WCN turning into the Harvard-of-message-boards?

Speak English, please. I'm from Kentucky remember.

I was just saying that I would find the conversation regarding our views more productive if he did not display such sarcasm in his posts. He is welcome to post in that way; as he pointed out he is allowed to post within the rules of the forum, but I think there may be a more productive way to do things...

On another note, have you found many people to watch the games with yet? When I was down there for a while I was having the hardest time finding NC folks who followed the Cats.

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 03:07 PM

Craig the Blueheart wrote: blueheretic wrote: OK worst case scenario, we hire the anti-Christ and he uses Basketball to brainswash the State and uses Kentucky as a platform to start Armageddon and conquer the world.

Or....Mitch could hire Matt Doherty and Mike Davis as co-Coaches. Personally, I'd rather have the anti-Christ.

Come on. Do ya really think that is going to be part of the search? Mitch makes it a priority. Future UK Coach should cheat and get UK Basketball the Death Penalty. From poet to Legionaire of Future Doom in about 5 posts.

It's your prerogative to reserve judgement until after the season ends and Tubby ends with his 22 wins and 12 losses. No problem.

It's mine to post my opinions and discuss that which I think is worthy of discussion.

I never said that it wasn't, but I am glad you have decided to state the obvious, because several here probably needed to be reminded. I really do love these forums, as they give everyone a chance to voice their opinion if they so choose. Perhaps I would find this particular discussion more gainful if you did not employ such a faceitious rhetoric.

Perhaps....

and perhaps I was returning the favor.

Craig the Blueheart

03-02-2007, 03:10 PM

blueheretic wrote: Craig the Blueheart wrote: blueheretic wrote: OK worst case scenario, we hire the anti-Christ and he uses Basketball to brainswash the State and uses Kentucky as a platform to start Armageddon and conquer the world.

Or....Mitch could hire Matt Doherty and Mike Davis as co-Coaches. Personally, I'd rather have the anti-Christ.

Come on. Do ya really think that is going to be part of the search? Mitch makes it a priority. Future UK Coach should cheat and get UK Basketball the Death Penalty. From poet to Legionaire of Future Doom in about 5 posts.

It's your prerogative to reserve judgement until after the season ends and Tubby ends with his 22 wins and 12 losses. No problem.

It's mine to post my opinions and discuss that which I think is worthy of discussion.

I never said that it wasn't, but I am glad you have decided to state the obvious, because several here probably needed to be reminded. I really do love these forums, as they give everyone a chance to voice their opinion if they so choose. Perhaps I would find this particular discussion more gainful if you did not employ such a faceitious rhetoric.

Perhaps....

and perhaps I was returning the favor.

Just out of curiosity, what would be your mindset toward the coach if he made the Final Four? It may not make a difference to many, but if he did, would it ease tensions in your mind? If he were to make the final four, would it be worth it to you to perhaps discontinue the candidacy of our university from the minds of JL and PP? I speculate that they would not come here if Tubby were gone.

RaleighCat

03-02-2007, 03:17 PM

Craig the Blueheart wrote: RaleighCat wrote: Craig the Blueheart wrote: Perhaps I would find this particular discussion more gainful if you did not employ such a faceitious rhetoric.

Ummmm, did I miss WCN turning into the Harvard-of-message-boards?

Speak English, please. I'm from Kentucky remember.

I was just saying that I would find the conversation regarding our views more productive if he did not display such sarcasm in his posts. He is welcome to post in that way; as he pointed out he is allowed to post within the rules of the forum, but I think there may be a more productive way to do things...

On another note, have you found many people to watch the games with yet? When I was down there for a while I was having the hardest time finding NC folks who followed the Cats.

Gotcha. Product of the Jefferson County Public School System, so go easy on me!

I have met tons of UK fans in the past few years (moved here in '00 from Atlanta). But, I've got two young kids (and a wife) so slipping out to watch games at the pub isn't convenient. I'm stuck with my widescreen HD and cheaper beer/Maker's Mark. Not a bad tradeoff actually.

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 03:18 PM

I'm not going to "if" with you. Why? Because I do not beleive that Tubby Smith will ever make the Final Four? "If" is part of the problem with the Smith era. It's all we get. "If only" and "almost." I'm so tired of those two words.

"If" and "almost" are why I want Tubby gone.

If we had another coach, we'd have been to the Final Four once or twice since 1999.

You believe in the guy. I do not. PP and Lucas or no PP and Lucas. Tubby will still be missing some vital piece. There will still be an "if." There will still be an "almost." It's the essence of Orlando "Tubby" Smith. He has absolutely no organization. He will never be complete.

So there is no Final Four. There is only "almost" and "if."

Craig the Blueheart

03-02-2007, 03:19 PM

RaleighCat wrote: Craig the Blueheart wrote: RaleighCat wrote: Craig the Blueheart wrote: Perhaps I would find this particular discussion more gainful if you did not employ such a faceitious rhetoric.

Ummmm, did I miss WCN turning into the Harvard-of-message-boards?

Speak English, please. I'm from Kentucky remember.

I was just saying that I would find the conversation regarding our views more productive if he did not display such sarcasm in his posts. He is welcome to post in that way; as he pointed out he is allowed to post within the rules of the forum, but I think there may be a more productive way to do things...

On another note, have you found many people to watch the games with yet? When I was down there for a while I was having the hardest time finding NC folks who followed the Cats.

Gotcha. Product of the Jefferson County Public School System, so go easy on me!

I have met tons of UK fans in the past few years (moved here in '00 from Atlanta). But, I've got two young kids (and a wife) so slipping out to watch games at the pub isn't convenient. I'm stuck with my widescreen HD and cheaper beer/Maker's Mark. Not a bad tradeoff actually.

I would say that is not a bad trade off. I am serious... the whole time that I was in Winston Salem, I never saw a single other person wearing our stuff. I never saw anyone in a bar rooting for them. It was always slim pickings. I spent a couple weeks and Raleigh, and found it to be a very nice place... I am glad that you have found some down that direction.

Craig the Blueheart

03-02-2007, 03:24 PM

blueheretic wrote: I'm not going to "if" with you. Why? Because I do not beleive that Tubby Smith will ever make the Final Four? "If" is part of the problem with the Smith era. It's all we get. "If only" and "almost." I'm so tired of those two words.

"If" and "almost" are why I want Tubby gone.

If we had another coach, we'd have been to the Final Four once or twice since 1999.

You believe in the guy. I do not. PP and Lucas or no PP and Lucas. Tubby will still be missing some vital piece. There will still be an "if." There will still be an "almost." It's the essence of Orlando "Tubby" Smith. He has absolutely no organization. He will never be complete.

So there is no Final Four. There is only "almost" and "if."

You said, "If we had another coach, we'd have been to the Final Four once or twice since 1999."That is another "if" thatI personally amtired of hearing. How would we ever know this?

As for my support, hecurrently does not have it. He can earn my support back. If he were to continue on this pace of losing (1st round ofSEC loss, 1st round oftourney loss), then I would definitley continue my stance.As I have mentioned, however, I have not seen the final product, however. There is still time. There have been worse teams to do really well in thetournament. There is still a chance.

blueheretic

03-02-2007, 03:30 PM

Craig the Blueheart wrote: blueheretic wrote: I'm not going to "if" with you. Why? Because I do not beleive that Tubby Smith will ever make the Final Four? "If" is part of the problem with the Smith era. It's all we get. "If only" and "almost." I'm so tired of those two words.

"If" and "almost" are why I want Tubby gone.

If we had another coach, we'd have been to the Final Four once or twice since 1999.

You believe in the guy. I do not. PP and Lucas or no PP and Lucas. Tubby will still be missing some vital piece. There will still be an "if." There will still be an "almost." It's the essence of Orlando "Tubby" Smith. He has absolutely no organization. He will never be complete.

So there is no Final Four. There is only "almost" and "if."

You said, "If we had another coach, we'd have been to the Final Four once or twice since 1999."That is another "if" thatI personally amtired of hearing. How would we ever know this?

As for my support, hecurrently does not have it. He can earn my support back. If he were to continue on this pace of losing (1st round ofSEC loss, 1st round oftourney loss), then I would definitley continue my stance.As I have mentioned, however, I have not seen the final product, however. There is still time. There have been worse teams to do really well in thetournament. There is still a chance.

What worse team did well in the Tournament?

Be careful.

My if/coach/FF statement hit its intended mark.

Craig the Blueheart

03-02-2007, 03:37 PM

blueheretic wrote:
You said, "If we had another coach, we'd have been to the Final Four once or twice since 1999."That is another "if" thatI personally amtired of hearing. How would we ever know this?

As for my support, hecurrently does not have it. He can earn my support back. If he were to continue on this pace of losing (1st round ofSEC loss, 1st round oftourney loss), then I would definitley continue my stance.As I have mentioned, however, I have not seen the final product, however. There is still time. There have been worse teams to do really well in thetournament. There is still a chance.

What worse team did well in the Tournament?

Be careful.

My if/coach/FF statement hit its intended mark.

We talked a bit about it last week. There was a thread regarding the worst teams to ever WIN a championship. One team mentioned was Jimmy V's NC State team. Another team that was mentioned was a Villanova team in 1988 or 1989 that won it all, and they were pretty bad throughout the season. If I am not mistaken, they were not going to get in, but they won their conference tournament, thus mandating their bid.

There are countless numbers of teams that have worse coaches, and worse players than we have had who have made tremendous runs in the tournament. Every year there are a few teams whoare undermanned, and they make runs in the tournament.

Am I saying a deep run is likely, and that he will win back my support? No. I am saying, however, that there is a chance for that to happen. If it does, he will win my support back, we will HOPEFULLY land the two blue chip recruits, and right the ship internally.

jdeasy

03-02-2007, 04:20 PM

SouthBeachWildcat wrote: you can name a handful of players in 10 years of coaching...........congrats

A "handful"? How big is your hand? 17 of 37 recruits under tubby left with elidgibility remaining. Only one to the NBA.

Morris and Crawford tried to leave. Bradley says he almost didn't come back for this season.

That's 20 of 37 and you don't see a problem?

Stretch

03-02-2007, 04:52 PM

Azubuike and Rondo both left early to play pro ball. Azubuike did not make the NBA right away but he is kicking butt there now. Are you counting him as a negative against Tubby?

Also, I would like to see the actual lists of these 37 "recruits" and the 17 who you say left the team with eligibility remaining.

jdeasy

03-02-2007, 04:56 PM

Stretch wrote: Azubuike and Rondo both left early to play pro ball. Azubuike did not make the NBA right away but he is kicking butt there now. Are you counting him as a negative against Tubby?

Also, I would like to see the actual lists of these 37 "recruits" and the 17 who you say left the team with eligibility remaining.

The fact that Kaz left with elidgibilty remaining is an undisputable fact. You can't spin that one.

The list of the 17 of 37 has been posted at many sites many times, including this one. I'm not going to hunt it down for you because you pretend it doesn't exist.

Will Lavender

03-02-2007, 05:02 PM

Just off the top of my head:

Michael Bradley
Myron Anthony
Nate Knight
Ryan Hogan
Marvin Stone
Jason Parker
Todd Tackett
Corey Sears
Adam Chiles
Rashad Carruth
Marquis Estill
Kelenna Azubuike
Rajon Rondo
Shagari Alleyne
Adam Williams
Rekalin Sims

Unless I'm missing someone, that's 16.

But a transfer is not a transfer is not a transfer. Some of these kids -- 6 of them, actually, if you count Shagari -- got in trouble. Two were recruited by another coach. Three left to play professionally.

To lump them all together as one is not quite accurate, IMO.

Radiated

03-02-2007, 10:46 PM

What type of problems did Daniels have?

blueheretic

03-03-2007, 01:25 AM

Is he not the guy who was caught with a fake ID a day or two after Tubby gave his ultimatum during the Team Turmoil I?

That would indicate a distinct lack of respect for Smiths authority and a willingness to risk the wrath of the Awful and Infamous Stare.

delkfor3

03-03-2007, 06:17 AM

Scars wrote:

This thread wouldn't be so bad if these discussions hadn't already happened 1,000 times. It's the same old song and dance every time.

In all honesty, I have never really seen the questions adressed that heretic has asked. When someone transfers out, we usually just dog the hell out of them. I have also wondered the same things as heretic, what is the deal with Tubby's recruits?:shrug:

Stretch

03-03-2007, 06:36 AM

blueheretic wrote: Is he not the guy who was caught with a fake ID a day or two after Tubby gave his ultimatum during the Team Turmoil I?

That would indicate a distinct lack of respect for Smiths authority and a willingness to risk the wrath of the Awful and Infamous Stare.

Yeah, that Eric Daniels is the poster child for Tubby's recruitment of bad apples and Tubby's inability to spot talent or develop his players.

The kid was not offered by even the schools in his home city but under Tubby's tutelage, he became one of the best passing big men in UK history. He was also one of the best players on a UK team that ran the table in the SEC and was ranked #1 in the nation. He even played a bit in the NBA. An entire team of Eric Daniels would be fine by me.

And he was a terrific representative of UK on and off the court. I wish possession of a fake ID was the worst thing I did during my college years!

Stretch

03-03-2007, 06:40 AM

jdeasy wrote: Stretch wrote: Azubuike and Rondo both left early to play pro ball. Azubuike did not make the NBA right away but he is kicking butt there now. Are you counting him as a negative against Tubby?

Also, I would like to see the actual lists of these 37 "recruits" and the 17 who you say left the team with eligibility remaining.

The fact that Kaz left with elidgibilty remaining is an undisputable fact. You can't spin that one.

The list of the 17 of 37 has been posted at many sites many times, including this one. I'm not going to hunt it down for you because you pretend it doesn't exist.

Azubuike's father went to prison and he left reluctantly because his family needed his financial support. Was that somehow Tubby's fault?

delkfor3

03-03-2007, 06:42 AM

Will Lavender wrote: Just off the top of my head:

Michael Bradley
Myron Anthony
Nate Knight
Ryan Hogan
Marvin Stone
Jason Parker
Todd Tackett
Corey Sears
Adam Chiles
Rashad Carruth
Marquis Estill
Kelenna Azubuike
Rajon Rondo
Shagari Alleyne
Adam Williams
Rekalin Sims

Unless I'm missing someone, that's 16.

You forgot Desmond Allison. One of the biggest shams ever, was how this kid was thrown under the bus by UK.:tongue

Stretch

03-03-2007, 06:46 AM

I wonder if anyone bashes Billy Donovan for running off Mario Boggan? That kid may be a first team All-American.

Stretch

03-03-2007, 07:01 AM

I thought Desmond Allison and Jason Parker were dismissed by the UK administration, not Tubby.

jdeasy

03-03-2007, 10:52 AM

Stretch wrote: jdeasy wrote: Stretch wrote: Azubuike and Rondo both left early to play pro ball. Azubuike did not make the NBA right away but he is kicking butt there now. Are you counting him as a negative against Tubby?

Also, I would like to see the actual lists of these 37 "recruits" and the 17 who you say left the team with eligibility remaining.

The fact that Kaz left with elidgibilty remaining is an undisputable fact. You can't spin that one.

The list of the 17 of 37 has been posted at many sites many times, including this one. I'm not going to hunt it down for you because you pretend it doesn't exist.

Azubuike's father went to prison and he left reluctantly because his family needed his financial support. Was that somehow Tubby's fault?

When something happens occasionally, it's probably nobody's "fault". Things happen.

When it's 17 of 37, it's a pattern.

audacious1

03-03-2007, 01:09 PM

blueheretic wrote: Many of the proponents of continuing Smiths tenure at UK assert that recruits absolutely love good ol' Poppa Orlando. He's a great role model and molder of men and all of the other mumbo jumbo that goes along with that.

Question:

If recruits love Smith so much, why do over half of his recruits bolt?

Why do so many of his more talented recruits rail against him? (Stone, Carruth, Rondo, Bradley, Crawford, Morris, etc)

Why do so many of his kids get into trouble? (Fitch, Daniels, Stone, Parker, Camara, Allison, etc)

Why does it seem that Smith can not relate to his athletes and why is the problem so much more acute with the more talented athletes that he recruits?

This is a guy that many of his proponents say that recruits absolutely love. "Patrick Patterson loves him and wants to play for UK only if Smith is still here" many of you say on this forum.

Tubbys problems with his players are well documented. The individual and team problems are well documented. The mass transfers out of the program are well documented.

You guys say that recruits love Tubby. So what happens to make so many of them lose respect for Tubby and lose that "love" that makes them send faxes and leave at Christmas break (at least twice in his tenure) and rebel in various ways.

Another backdoor attempt to put Tubby down. :X

Like most teenagers, what they want changes from day to day. Ever had kids of your own?

NOWIS

03-03-2007, 02:06 PM

audacious1 wrote: blueheretic wrote: Many of the proponents of continuing Smiths tenure at UK assert that recruits absolutely love good ol' Poppa Orlando. He's a great role model and molder of men and all of the other mumbo jumbo that goes along with that.

Question:

If recruits love Smith so much, why do over half of his recruits bolt?

Why do so many of his more talented recruits rail against him? (Stone, Carruth, Rondo, Bradley, Crawford, Morris, etc)

Why do so many of his kids get into trouble? (Fitch, Daniels, Stone, Parker, Camara, Allison, etc)

Why does it seem that Smith can not relate to his athletes and why is the problem so much more acute with the more talented athletes that he recruits?

This is a guy that many of his proponents say that recruits absolutely love. "Patrick Patterson loves him and wants to play for UK only if Smith is still here" many of you say on this forum.

Tubbys problems with his players are well documented. The individual and team problems are well documented. The mass transfers out of the program are well documented.

You guys say that recruits love Tubby. So what happens to make so many of them lose respect for Tubby and lose that "love" that makes them send faxes and leave at Christmas break (at least twice in his tenure) and rebel in various ways.

Another backdoor attempt to put Tubby down. :X

Like most teenagers, what they want changes from day to day. Ever had kids of your own?

Nothing back door about it

blueheretic

03-03-2007, 04:22 PM

Stretch

03-03-2007, 07:53 PM

"I find it hilarious that to people like you any conversation that does not simply begin and end with 'TUBBY IS GOD' is out of bounds."

Heretic, you are such a hypocrit. If someone started a thread on this board with "the sun came up today", within five minutes you would be out of the woodwork with another of your "tubby you suck" tirades.

Josh

03-03-2007, 08:18 PM

blueheretic wrote: audacious1 wrote: blueheretic wrote: Many of the proponents of continuing Smiths tenure at UK assert that recruits absolutely love good ol' Poppa Orlando. He's a great role model and molder of men and all of the other mumbo jumbo that goes along with that.

Question:

If recruits love Smith so much, why do over half of his recruits bolt?

Why do so many of his more talented recruits rail against him? (Stone, Carruth, Rondo, Bradley, Crawford, Morris, etc)

Why do so many of his kids get into trouble? (Fitch, Daniels, Stone, Parker, Camara, Allison, etc)

Why does it seem that Smith can not relate to his athletes and why is the problem so much more acute with the more talented athletes that he recruits?

This is a guy that many of his proponents say that recruits absolutely love. "Patrick Patterson loves him and wants to play for UK only if Smith is still here" many of you say on this forum.

Tubbys problems with his players are well documented. The individual and team problems are well documented. The mass transfers out of the program are well documented.

You guys say that recruits love Tubby. So what happens to make so many of them lose respect for Tubby and lose that "love" that makes them send faxes and leave at Christmas break (at least twice in his tenure) and rebel in various ways.

Another backdoor attempt to put Tubby down. :X

Like most teenagers, what they want changes from day to day. Ever had kids of your own?

I find it hilarious that to people like you any conversation that does not simply begin and end with "TUBBY IS GOD" is out of bounds.

Tubby is not GOD. He's a basketball coach. He's an employee. He is paid a lot of money to do a job. The standards of that Job are high indeed.

I guess it would be ok with you if the U.S. Military came in 4th place in the next war. lol We could then change our language to French.

I would absolutely LOVE to know who said Tubby was God? Not insinuated, but flat-out that that Tubby was God.

Plus, comparing one's loyalty to Tubby Smith and his tenure at Kentucky to what our expectations would be for the U.S. Military and a war is, quite frankly, one of the worst comparisons I have ever seen. No reason to even bring it up, IMO.

Some of the posts in this thread are simply going beyond the boundaries of basketball and are just not needed. This doesn't enhance the discussion, this doesn't make anyone think ... it's pointless. I'd love to talk hoops, but goodness, can we keep it relevant?

JOHN BLUEBLOOD

03-03-2007, 08:26 PM

blueheretic wrote: Many of the proponents of continuing Smiths tenure at UK assert that recruits absolutely love good ol' Poppa Orlando. He's a great role model and molder of men and all of the other mumbo jumbo that goes along with that.

Question:

If recruits love Smith so much, why do over half of his recruits bolt?

Why do so many of his more talented recruits rail against him? (Stone, Carruth, Rondo, Bradley, Crawford, Morris, etc)

Why do so many of his kids get into trouble? (Fitch, Daniels, Stone, Parker, Camara, Allison, etc)

Why does it seem that Smith can not relate to his athletes and why is the problem so much more acute with the more talented athletes that he recruits?

This is a guy that many of his proponents say that recruits absolutely love. "Patrick Patterson loves him and wants to play for UK only if Smith is still here" many of you say on this forum.

Tubbys problems with his players are well documented. The individual and team problems are well documented. The mass transfers out of the program are well documented.

You guys say that recruits love Tubby. So what happens to make so many of them lose respect for Tubby and lose that "love" that makes them send faxes and leave at Christmas break (at least twice in his tenure) and rebel in various ways.

Bland recruits like Stockton, Thomas, Perry, Woo, etc. love Tubby because he's their only chance to play for an elite program and some get to play major minutes.

bump63

03-03-2007, 10:31 PM

Cote

blueheretic

03-03-2007, 10:33 PM

Scars wrote: but goodness, can we keep it relevant?
I find myself wishing the same thing.

poodoo

03-04-2007, 07:41 PM

You guys say that recruits love Tubby. QUOTE by blueheretic

_________

Just for the record, we areDIRECTLY QUOTINGplayers who say that they LOVE Tubby. At least accurately state THAT, please!

I'm sure, though, that all of Tubby's players do not love him once they are actually playing for him. In particular, players who have not gotten the playing time they desire, or have been limited in playing time for not playing defense as Tubby demands, fall into that category. Rekalin Sims specifically comes to my mind in that regard. I imagine there's a "love-hate" relationship between a lot of the players and Coach Smith, and I have read that occurs in a lot of player/coach relationships.

I also know that some players have referred to Tubby as a "father figure." Gerald Fitch comes to my mind in that regard.

Actually, I'm not sure Tubby manages all his players that well. I think he especially struggles with players who expect the time without earning it and players who are not willing to give of themselves on defense. In particular, I did not think Tubby managed last year's players that well. I think part of that was his difficiulty in dealing with the loss of Hayes and the unexpected loss of Azubuike and Morris' ineligibility one semester. I felt that players were on a particularly short leash or whatever, although I don't really know.

Sometimes I think Tubby may be too easy on his players, though.I wonder if either Bobby Knight or Rick Pitino would have even put a player on the court the next game after learning his girlfriend wore a shirt to "free" her boyfriend. :lol:Other times I think Tubby jerks out players too quickly and does not give them enough freedom.Again, though, I don't really know since I'm not at practice.

Most of all, I think virtually ALL coaches have such behaviors that could be debated. Reading the newspapers, I certainly know thatmany players have gotten in trouble off the court in many programs. Reading the CJ, I am awarethatmany players have left Pitino's program. I know that Joakim Noah animatedly talked back to Coach Donovan. In other words, it happens, and I have no idea how much things have happened with Tubby more or less than with other coaches. Perhaps he has had more than his share. He certainly had Team Turmoil, no doubt about that one.

Most of all, though, I KNOW that these recruits have made the statements about their LOVE for Tubby Smith, UNLESS all the journalists are risking their careers using the quotation marks around their comments. That can NOT be debated, althoughyou have questioned that here, more than once. WHY? Some UK fans' not liking Tubby Smith does not make these recruits feel the same way.

How players feel about Tubby after they are here is another argument and can be fairly debated. That statement about recruits' "loving" Tubby and wanting to play specifically for him as a coach, though,cannot fairly be attributed solely to Tubby supporters (or those who are NOT ready to fire him! :)). Again, the players themselves MADE THE COMMENTS. Do the research. The recent Patterson articles are on the home page. Other quotes have been from much earlier in the year. Oh, I personallyquoted a couple of recent comments from Draymont Green and Darius Miller from recent Cats' Pause columns. One is this week's issue and should be easily found. :)Most of all, GO CATS!!!