Is our basketball program where we want it to be?

[biglabcatdaddy]

I'm trying to be fair and honest while at the same timenot coming across asa panderer to any side of these issues. I really am interested in your thoughts on some items that come easily to mind without going to the extent of pulling out the stat book.

The good (and there is plenty of good stuff around the program);


Our facilities are among the best in the country andmay be the very best.
Our fan base (most ofit anyway) is excellent. While we have some disagreements we all want to win and to do it without cheating.
Our program is ethical, at least I think it is.The Bad;


No one fears UK anymore. We're losing to the type of teams that used to beterrified of UK.
Losing to Vandy 4 times in a row. Vandy is not a Duke, a North Carolina, a Kansas, or a Florida type team.
Neither are we!
Recruiting - We should already have the Pattersons of the world locked up. In the not too distant past these types of players waited by the phone forUK to call, not the other way around.
The talk about UK generated on TV and other media is not impressive. Sure, Digger used to down us but then we would come out and make him look like the fool he is. Now if we even rate a comment on the national shows it's usually about our struggles or someone taking up for Tubby in his time of need. Not the type of coverage a program would like to have.The questions;


We are probably going to have another 10 loss season (barring a miracle). Is this where we want to be?
We used to consistently be seeded at or near the top in the NCAA tourney, now we are looking at something between a 6 and 9 seed by most predictions. Is this acceptable?
We are not getting top recruits consistently, maybe we don't want to, but is this what we want of KY Basketball?
I've been a fan nearly all of my life and see nothing inherently wrong with wanting to watch my favorite team play an exciting brand of basketball. Not only are we struggling to win, but am I the only one whothinks this style of basketball is no fun to watch?My answer;


You can probably tell by now that I for one am not overjoyed with the state of UK Basketball at this point in our history. Some of you are completely satisfied and that is OK, opinions are like elbows; most of us have a couple. However, I am of the belief that the oldsaw is true - the definition of insanity is tocontinue to do the same thing while expecting a different outcome. I think changes are due if we want to return to the way we were. And I do think we allwant to regain some of the prestige we have lost in the college basketball world.
Tubby is a class individual and a fine man. I do not think he has us headed in the right direction at this point in time. I do not want to see him treated unfairly or in an undignified manner.
Can Tubby change? I thought that was what this season was about.
Has he tried?Without a doubt, Tubby wants to turn things around as much as any of us.Some final questions;


ShouldTubby return as our coach next year? Will he want to? What do you think?

[justford]

UK fans were pulling for TN to win so we can get a good seed on the FIRST day of the SEC tourney. Nuff said:shock:

[Cant Get Right]

Tying to be fair, looks like another rehash to me.

[Stretch]

I think we are fine and definitely in much better shape than the sky-is-falling crowd would have us believe.

We have had 1 1/2 somewhat down years but even during this lull, we are still winning over 20 games and we are in the NCAA tournament. Before that, we were a stellar 87-15. We have the state of the art practice facility we so desperately needed and since Sean Finney returned to the staff, the focus of our recruiting effort is much improved. We have an excellent freshman class, are in the hunt for an even better recruiting class this season and generally, we are getting involved with better prospects sooner and pursuing them more aggressively.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

Stretch wrote: I think we are fine and definitely in much better shape than the sky-is-falling crowd would have us believe.

We have had 1 1/2 somewhat down years but even during this lull, we are still winning over 20 games and we are in the NCAA tournament. Before that, we were a stellar 87-15. We have the state of the art practice facility we so desperately needed and since Sean Finney returned to the staff, the focus of our recruiting effort is much improved. We have an excellent freshman class, are in the hunt for an even better recruiting class this season and generally, we are getting involved with better prospects sooner and pursuing them more aggressively.



those 1 1/2 somewhat years have produces a WORSE SEC record than the "probation years"- I'd call that worse than "somewhat".

Then you build the man a state of the art practice facility and he uses it when he's blaming thing for losses. We recruit HS AA's and they end up coming off the bench behind such notables as Woo and Stockton. We will lose 25 games in back-to-back seasons, first time our 106 year history. Throw in the fact that we haven't hardly been ranked in 2 years and I would say it's been a rotten time- considering we have the highest-paid coach in basketball.


For the kids sake I hope we do well in the postseason and I never pull for us to loose but I'm finished with Tubby, no matter how well he does because I've seen him deliver and then follow up with team-turmoils and lousy seasons- I'm ready for the roller-coaseter ride called Tubby Smith to end. It's like having a girl who cheats on you, she will go awhile being a perfect angel but you know worse times will show up again and again- finally, no matter how good she is, you've had enough and it's time for her to move on.

[Will Lavender]

I also think it's a pretty rotten time.

Anybody can see that Kentucky hasn't played good basketball since March of 2005.

Under a coach who gets as much money as Tubby Smith, that's unacceptable.

These guys don't always play hard, they don't play smart, the strategy is inconsistent, the late-game strategy is suspect at best, we don't have more than two or three athletes on the roster...

I could go on.

It's a bad time to be a fan of UK basketball. I don't care what anybody says.

Let's hope this team proves me wrong and gets it going in Atlanta.

[Stretch]

You say you are "finished with Tubby", Blueblood. What does that mean, exactly? Since the decision for him to go or stay is not your decision, what if he is retained and coaches UK for the next 10 years--will you still be preaching "tubby you suck" on a daily basis?

[Josh]

Cant Get Right wrote: Tying to be fair, looks like another rehash to me.
I'm just getting use to the fact that these discussions will never stop. So, for the sake of discussion ...

... I've probably vented more this season and have been more frustrated with this team that I ever have in my life. But I don't think it's as bad as it looks. One of the thing that amazes me about college basketball is the level of parity. I know, that's a horrible word for Wildcat fans to hear and most scoff at it. But the reality is, it's entirely true. Teams are just way too even in this day and age. It's amazing the tranformation the game has taken in just a decade. I mean, to this point, none of us has a firm grip on who the four #1 seeds will be on Selection Sunday. Everyone still says that Florida, the same Florida that has lost three in a row, is the odds on favorite to win the whole thing, and yet, they haven't played like a championship team lately. They've looked average, at best.

I also realize that we've simply shot ourselves in the foot all season long. I think the talent is there. Now, we don't have 10 McDonald's All-American's on our team, but I fully believe that this team is capable, when it comes to sheer talent, of being successful and making a deep-run in this tournament. It's not a talent question for me. It's an intangible question. Can this team do the fundamentally sound things for 40 minutes? Take care of the basketball, rebound, make smart decisions late in the game.

I try my hardest to be a realist, even with my blue tinted glasses on. I realize that this team isn't the 96 team, or the 98 team, or even the 2004 team. But they are capable of beating teams. Is 20-9 the type of record we want? No. But it's just not as bad as it's made out to be.

It actually makes me feel better knowing that this team has beaten itself. I would much rather have it this way than getting beaten by other teams. Because to me, us beating ourselves is correctable. When we were getting smoked last season by 20+ points, looking back on that whole situation, there really wasn't any way for that to be corrected. If we were going to get beat, we were going to get beat bad. But this team fights and claws back, and usually just makes a few mental mistakes.

Those things can be fixed. Obviously, the best time to fix them would be now. What better time to get it right than against Florida?

(Wow, I went way beyond what I initially wanted to!)

[RP_McMurphy]

Kentucky basketball is a Ferrai and lately it's been driven like 84 Yugo.

[wyldkatzky]

Will it matter if we win a championship this year? Regaurdless of the odds, will it matter, any of this season if we win a championship this year? I think not. So as Mitch says, how about we wait to evaluate.

[blewis18]

Will Lavender wrote: I also think it's a pretty rotten time.

Anybody can see that Kentucky hasn't played good basketball since March of 2005.

Under a coach who gets as much money as Tubby Smith, that's unacceptable.

These guys don't always play hard, they don't play smart, the strategy is inconsistent, the late-game strategy is suspect at best, we don't have more than two or three athletes on the roster...

I could go on.

It's a bad time to be a fan of UK basketball. I don't care what anybody says.

Let's hope this team proves me wrong and gets it going in Atlanta.


Who are you, and what have you done with Will!!!!!!??????:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Stretch]

It's just my opinion but I believe "rotten" is way too strong to describe a program with the nation's best facilities, zero NCAA compliance problems, 20-9 record, NCAA tournament appearance and 3.0 team GPA.

[graham51]

RP_McMurphy wrote: Kentucky basketball is a Ferrai and lately it's been driven like 84 Yugo.
Yes a Yugo with an empty gas tank.

[BigblueDrew]

justford wrote: UK fans were pulling for TN to win so we can get a good seed on the FIRST day of the SEC tourney. Nuff said:shock:
This is so true. Before last year I can't remember playing on Thursday and I used to go to the SEC tourney every year. I'm not going this year because it is too painful watching the Cats lose there, and barring a miracle thats whats going to happen. Listen to what we are SAYING, "maybe we can get a 4 seed in the SEC Tourney East bracket". Can people really say this and ask what kind of shape our program is in the same breath.The Smith era hasbecome so average it STINKS. We are average, and many on here are OKAY with it. Before I'm told people are not , tell me how someone can say they aren't happy with our team but in the same breath wish to retain the man who recruited, coaches, and created the situation in the first place. The state of our program sucks right now andI don't mind saying it.Tubby may well be retained for next year and we can continue our free fall toward mediocrity and irrelavence. That is another thingI HATE, watching UK become irrelavent on the college basketball landscape. No body fears us, nobody feels we will be a factor in the dance except a few whistling in the grave yard fans. It is depressing and it WILL NOT CHANGE until Tubby Smith is gone. To answer a question posed by another poster, I for one will not be silent about it, if it takes ten years for a change to be made.

[catmandoo25]

BigblueDrew wrote: justford wrote: UK fans were pulling for TN to win so we can get a good seed on the FIRST day of the SEC tourney. Nuff said:shock:
This is so true. Before last year I can't remember playing on Thursday and I used to go to the SEC tourney every year. I'm not going this year because it is too painful watching the Cats lose there, and barring a miracle thats whats going to happen. Listen to what we are SAYING, "maybe we can get a 4 seed in the SEC Tourney East bracket". Can people really say this and ask what kind of shape our program is in the same breath.The Smith era hasbecome so average it STINKS. We are average, and many on here are OKAY with it. Before I'm told people are not , tell me how someone can say they aren't happy with our team but in the same breath wish to retain the man who recruited, coaches, and created the situation in the first place. The state of our program sucks right now andI don't mind saying it.Tubby may well be retained for next year and we can continue our free fall toward mediocrity and irrelavence. That is another thingI HATE, watching UK become irrelavent on the college basketball landscape. No body fears us, nobody feels we will be a factor in the dance except a few whistling in the grave yard fans. It is depressing and it WILL NOT CHANGE until Tubby Smith is gone. To answer a question posed by another poster, I for one will not be silent about it, if it takes ten years for a change to be made.

I say the program is okay, but needs to pick it's damn game up. I feel this is a result of complacency and a bit of arrognace on Tubby's part. Recruiting has killed us and I believe that all the other problems whether they are imagined or real are a direct result. I'm not so sure the players or Tubby understand the urgency of the situation and immediate changes are imperative.

I for one am not going to pout and not attend games or watch or whatever because I disagree with things right now. This "I'm just not gonna watch anymore" sentiment just down right makes me angry. You will never find me anywhere but on the edge of my seat or in attendance of every game for which I can get a hand on a ticket. Rooting the Cats through the tough times are what make the good times so sweet. It's not like we have been this way for ten years. The future looks bright to me.

We will be back and to those who don't believe me. Just hope I get the last laugh

:tongue:tongue:tongue

[BigblueDrew]

catmandoo25 wrote: BigblueDrew wrote: justford wrote: UK fans were pulling for TN to win so we can get a good seed on the FIRST day of the SEC tourney. Nuff said:shock:
This is so true. Before last year I can't remember playing on Thursday and I used to go to the SEC tourney every year. I'm not going this year because it is too painful watching the Cats lose there, and barring a miracle thats whats going to happen. Listen to what we are SAYING, "maybe we can get a 4 seed in the SEC Tourney East bracket". Can people really say this and ask what kind of shape our program is in the same breath.The Smith era hasbecome so average it STINKS. We are average, and many on here are OKAY with it. Before I'm told people are not , tell me how someone can say they aren't happy with our team but in the same breath wish to retain the man who recruited, coaches, and created the situation in the first place. The state of our program sucks right now andI don't mind saying it.Tubby may well be retained for next year and we can continue our free fall toward mediocrity and irrelavence. That is another thingI HATE, watching UK become irrelavent on the college basketball landscape. No body fears us, nobody feels we will be a factor in the dance except a few whistling in the grave yard fans. It is depressing and it WILL NOT CHANGE until Tubby Smith is gone. To answer a question posed by another poster, I for one will not be silent about it, if it takes ten years for a change to be made.

I say the program is okay, but needs to pick it's damn game up. I feel this is a result of complacency and a bit of arrognace on Tubby's part. Recruiting has killed us and I believe that all the other problems whether they are imagined or real are a direct result. I'm not so sure the players or Tubby understand the urgency of the situation and immediate changes are imperative.

I for one am not going to pout and not attend games or watch or whatever because I disagree with things right now. This "I'm just not gonna watch anymore" sentiment just down right makes me angry. You will never find me anywhere but on the edge of my seat or in attendance of every game for which I can get a hand on a ticket. Rooting the Cats through the tough times are what make the good times so sweet. It's not like we have been this way for ten years. The future looks bright to me.

We will be back and to those who don't believe me. Just hope I get the last laugh

:tongue:tongue:tongue
You make some good points, I also will not "boycott" the Cats, not an option. I still go down into my UK study and watch every contest,I must confess however that the outlay of 1-2 thousand dollars needed to attend the SEC tourney with my spouseis not palatable to me with our program in its current state. I frankly have better uses for the money. I'm going on a cruise with my wife.I think it will be much more fun than sitting in the stands on Fri, or Sat and watching those damn lizard fans crow or listening to some Vandy fan talk smack about my program. I was in atlanta for the Team Turmoil smack down by a horrible USC team, you can't imagine what a downer that was. I fear something similiar will happen this year.

[blueheretic]

wyldkatzky wrote: Will it matter if we win a championship this year? Regaurdless of the odds, will it matter, any of this season if we win a championship this year? I think not. So as Mitch says, how about we wait to evaluate.




IF

IF

IF

IF

IF

IF

Will it matter if they lose to UF and lose in the first game of each tournament?

By double digits?


But they are capable of beating teams.
Yes. They are capable of beating the teams that they beat. Santa Clara and those other awesome "tournament teams" that some have hung Smiths hat on. They are not capable of beating the top teams. If they were, they would have. This team is not "in contention." It just isn't.

Just more of the Tubby crowd and their "ifs" and "almosts."

[blueheretic]

"If" and "almost" is what Smith has been building over the last ten years.

[SamKat]

National media talking heads are rushing in to protect Tubby's job and crucify the Kentucky fans. Where have they been the last two years. In their cushions, ignoring Kentucky and loving it.

Dream on Stretch, but Kentucky Basketball fans count more than the national media in judging these results. At least they should! Who worships facilities?

There is parity for sure. Talent is spread around as it is in the NBA. But the college game is about coaching and all aspects of it. Tubby is said to be an outstanding gentleman and so well respected but his recent teams have been fun to ignore by the publicity guys. Not so muchfun for us fans.

Now, IF we beat FL today and win out in the SEC tournament and go further in theNCAA tournament, I will say that Coach Smith has done a heckuva job. Barring those things, we are prisoners of Tubby Smith's unwillingness to change and extreme stubbornness in flooring a truly competitive team with the horses in this stable. Maybe the man became too rich too soon.

The IF is for you blueheretic.

[bluegrassking]

The only "IF" The Tubby supporters will not even attempt to face is what IF Tubby fails to get the program going in the right direction?

You guys throw every wildeyed "IF" possible around except that one that stands like a pink elephant in the living room.

"IF" Tubby fails to "turn it around" and "IF" he is permitted to hang out until his contract expires our Final Four draught will equal or surpass or previous longest time without winning a Championship and our Kentucky Basketball will be figment of the past like theSan Francisco Dons.

Address this "IF" in a meaningful way or NEVER say "IF" again as it relates to Kentucky Basketball.

[delkfor3]

wyldkatzky wrote: So as Mitch says, how about we wait to evaluate.

My evaluation period is over, it was over when we blew a 17 pt lead to UGA. Plus I have the 2002 and 2006 seasons to use as proof that Tubby and UK are not a good fit. Granted the season is not over, and anything can happen in March, but it's unlikely that the planets will line up for UK this season. I call them, as I see them.