No Donovan= Worst team since '91

[CK1979]

How bad are we going to be if Donovan doesnt come... What recruit is Crean going to bring with him? or Barnes? or Few? We have no bigs and Jared Carter is a poormans Orbzut!

[spfury]

We dont make the NCAA's or probably the NIT either. Plus I think the wrong coach will cost us Lucas and patterson. Crean, Brey or Few would be bad for the program.

[blUK]

good 1st post :rolleyes:

[RxRusty]

"Jared Carter is a poormans Orbzut!"

What evidence is there for this (and what exactly does it mean)?
Jared Carter has great potential. I look for him to play well.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Jared Carter has not played enough to tell who or what he is going to be like.........lets give this kid a chance

I hope The S&C coach can beef him up this summer

[UKhoov]

I dont think we will be much better or worse. We actually will be on the same path we have been the last few years IMO.

The Big Randy leaving does hurt dont get me wrong, but it isnt going to be as damaging as many think. The only way to tell is to wait until November Coaches vs. Cancer Tourney.

Until then you cant say we will suck, you just dont know.

[meeksman]

I watched Jared Carter play in HIGH SCHOOL against a team that didn't have a starter over 6'3" and he scored 4 points and had 5 rebounds. Yes, great potential.

[Will Lavender]

The good news is that our probable back-up plan, Gillespie, has been a master at rebuilding programs.

I don't think UK needs "rebuilding," per se, but it's awful close.

I'm of the mind that coaches don't matter too much. They matter, but it's the players who win and lose. Unless Donovan or Gillespie or whomever brings with him some studs, we're going to have trouble next year. We'll probably be more fun to watch, but I don't see this team, if the roster stays as is, competing for any SEC titles.

Hope I'm wrong.

[RP_McMurphy]

If you can rebuild Texas A&M then your a helluva coach. Texas A&M was absolutely horrid before Billy G. arrived there. He actually built where no one could build before. He would make a excellent hire imho.

[UFWildcat]

RP_McMurphy wrote: If you can rebuild Texas A&M then your a helluva coach. Texas A&M was absolutely horrid before Billy G. arrived there. He actually built where no one could build before. He would make a excellent hire imho.
TheBEST hire next to Donovan.

[RaleighCat]

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp

Here's the most current Rivals Top 150 list for next season's class. AJ Stewart is our top ranked recruit at #138.

If you'll agree that our coaching candidate list includes: Gillespi, Calipari, Barnes, Matta, Few, Izzo and Wright- then we have the chance to add one or more players rated in the Top 50, Top 100 (and above Stewart at #138).

Are we guaranteed that a great recruit follows their coach to UK? No. Is it likely? Depends on the several factors. Getting Patterson and/or Lucas with Tubby Smith at the helm was a crap shoot. It's obvious they had reservations about UK or they would've committed by now.

As to the returning players- I feel the new coach will get a great effort from our kids, and possibly some breakout performances. Perry Stevenson has to be excited. Joe Crawford and Ramel Bradley also. Do you think Michael Porter is anxious to prove he can contribute? Carter may or may not turn into a player at UK. But my guess is he'll be a smart effort guy at the 5.

Any team with Meeks, Crawford, Bradley and Stevenson has the nucleus to be good. Having a new coach with fresh ideas and a willingness to give everyone a fresh start will go a long way. I plan on being pleasantly surprised by our team next year no matter who the coach is. I plan on being more excited for the future.

[UFWildcat]

RaleighCat wrote: I plan on being more excited for the future.

:thumbup, I'll :beer:to that

[KY Native in IN]

it's scary how much emphasis people are putting on donovan coming back to Lexington....

we don't know that we'll be awesome or pathetic even if donovan comes or not....we could get an up and comer coach that just needed that big platform to come open and that coach will rise to the occasion and really shine and go on a 6 or 7 year run that makes the late 90's run look like Junior Varsity material....

who knows?

certainly no one on this board, certainly not me...we don't know that we'll be great, but we don't know we'll be terrible either...

[Will Lavender]

KY Native in IN wrote: it's scary how much emphasis people are putting on donovan coming back to Lexington...
I agree. It is sort of scary.

It's because fans, for some strange reason, treat coaches as god-figures. They believe -- or seem to believe -- that coaches wave magic wands and their players snap into action.

It appears that the administrations of these universities believe the same. Why else would they throw these ridiculous amounts of money at coaches?

[KY Native in IN]

FCFS82 wrote:

I think people can be realistic in May/June once you get the Donovan Saga out of the way.

I think we're swinging for the fences in Donovan, but I am ready for Gillispie or Wright.




yes, i would say we don't have much hope of getting him if he had NOT been part of the staff here in the past and had a taste of the UK tradition, facilities, possiblities, etc....but who knows maybe that's what might keep him away, knowing what it really is like...

we'll know in a day or so, won't we?....i wouldn't be shocked if he declined and stayed at UF

[CK1979]

Just makes me nervous having Carter and Stevenson starting....Who backs them up?

[poodoo]

Getting Patterson and/or Lucas with Tubby Smith at the helm was a crap shoot. It's obvious they had reservations about UK or they would've committed by now. QUOTE

___________

Well, that's one person's opinion. Who knows in regard to Patterson? Many very close to the program (based on listening to the local radio station) were convinced thatBOTH young men were announcing for UK as soon as they were sure that Tubby was staying. In regard to Patterson, though, who knows?

In contrast, in regard to Lucas, he couldn't have made his feelings more obvious, statement after statement. Reading so many quotes for months, I essentially have no doubt that Lucas was coming to UK IF he felt sure Tubby would be here (as he himself essentially stated). That's in the PAST, though, so why even bring up that stuff!Since it's been brought up, though, that's my opinion, which is based on what those close to the program and Lucas himself have repeatedly said.

Anyway, Lucashas most recently said that "everything changed" when Tubby left. Yet, he says that Kentucky basketball is still Kentucky basketball to him and he is waiting to see who will be the next coach, so we still have a chance with him, even if Donovan doesn't come, as I see it. Too, that's what matters, the FUTURE. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. How I hope we at least get Jai Lucas, who is going to make most all UK fan smile--I really believe that! :):):)

In regard to what kind of team we have if Donovan does not come here, none of us KNOW how the team will be. We have some returning talent that may be quite improved, and we still may add a couple of more top recruits. Sure, some of the coaching candidates (the onesdown the list)may be a bit scary, but none of us know how they will performhere at UK.So let's just all look FORWARD both HOPEFULLY and POSITIVELY! Only a suggestion from this corner. :)

[phoenix]

Will Lavender wrote:
I'm of the mind that coaches don't matter too much.

Hope I'm wrong.

You are.

[audacious1]

poodoo wrote: Getting Patterson and/or Lucas with Tubby Smith at the helm was a crap shoot. It's obvious they had reservations about UK or they would've committed by now. QUOTE

___________

Well, that's one person's opinion. Who knows in regard to Patterson? Many very close to the program (based on listening to the local radio station) were convinced thatBOTH young men were announcing for UK as soon as they were sure that Tubby was staying. In regard to Patterson, though, who knows?

In contrast, in regard to Lucas, he couldn't have made his feelings more obvious, statement after statement. Reading so many quotes for months, I essentially have no doubt that Lucas was coming to UK IF he felt sure Tubby would be here (as he himself essentially stated). That's in the PAST, though, so why even bring up that stuff!Since it's been brought up, though, that's my opinion, which is based on what those close to the program and Lucas himself have repeatedly said.

Anyway, Lucashas most recently said that "everything changed" when Tubby left. Yet, he says that Kentucky basketball is still Kentucky basketball to him and he is waiting to see who will be the next coach, so we still have a chance with him, even if Donovan doesn't come, as I see it. Too, that's what matters, the FUTURE. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. How I hope we at least get Jai Lucas, who is going to make most all UK fan smile--I really believe that! :):):)

In regard to what kind of team we have if Donovan does not come here, none of us KNOW how the team will be. We have some returning talent that may be quite improved, and we still may add a couple of more top recruits. Sure, some of the coaching candidates (the onesdown the list)may be a bit scary, but none of us know how they will performhere at UK.So let's just all look FORWARD both HOPEFULLY and POSITIVELY! Only a suggestion from this corner. :)





Once again poodoo brings it! :thumbup (Don't you get tired of typing the same message?)

It's too soon to tell about our team next year, IMO. A lot depends on the coach. And as Will mentioned, who can bring with him. But if we only look at our current team plus Williams and Stewart, it's realistic to think we'll be below average in the SEC. If that happens, I hope the fanbase will adjust their expectations accordingly.

[atlandy]

CK1979 wrote: Just makes me nervous having Carter and Stevenson starting....Who backs them up?
Mark Coury and that kid who started against NOVA, Don't know his name cause it ain't on his jersey but I think it is Dwight Perry:lol:

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

atlandy wrote: CK1979 wrote: Just makes me nervous having Carter and Stevenson starting....Who backs them up?
Mark Coury and that kid who started against NOVA, Don't know his name cause it ain't on his jersey but I think it is Dwight Perry:lol:

Not sure they would both start. If they did, youre looking atWilliams and Harris then Coury as backups. Sounds scary to me but I really like our perimiter. In my opinion our best lineup will be Jasper,Meeks, Crawford, Bradley, and Stevenson, which would leave Carter and Stewart as the first two off the bench. inreality though Carter probably starts and Stevenson comes off.

I think people really get too bogged down with"positions".

"who's gonna play the 4 ?" "who's gonna play the 5?"

all we need is a point who can handle the ball, somebody who can rebound, and 3 other guys who are good at BASKETBALL.

BTW Dwight has made his last start until his senior night and probably plays very little next year.

[dolfan1616]

I gaurded Jared Carter in High School, I was on Anderson county he was on Scott County 8th regional tournament and Im 5'8 He's 7'0 and he had 4 points .. Carter is going to be another FLOP big man NO DOUBT... Center Position is going to be a BIG concern next year in my eyes..

[Craig the Blueheart]

dolfan1616 wrote: I gaurded Jared Carter in High School, I was on Anderson county he was on Scott County 8th regional tournament and Im 5'8 He's 7'0 and he had 4 points .. Carter is going to be another FLOP big man NO DOUBT... Center Position is going to be a BIG concern next year in my eyes..
That explains it...

[UFWildcat]

CatFanInTheBathtub wrote: atlandy wrote: CK1979 wrote: Just makes me nervous having Carter and Stevenson starting....Who backs them up?
Mark Coury and that kid who started against NOVA, Don't know his name cause it ain't on his jersey but I think it is Dwight Perry:lol:

Not sure they would both start. If they did, youre looking atWilliams and Harris then Coury as backups. Sounds scary to me but I really like our perimiter. In my opinion our best lineup will be Jasper,Meeks, Crawford, Bradley, and Stevenson, which would leave Carter and Stewart as the first two off the bench. inreality though Carter probably starts and Stevenson comes off.

I think people really get too bogged down with"positions".

"who's gonna play the 4 ?" "who's gonna play the 5?"

all we need is a point who can handle the ball, somebody who can rebound, and 3 other guys who are good at BASKETBALL.

BTW Dwight has made his last start until his senior night and probably plays very little next year.

Stevenson playing the 5...

That could get ugly.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

Will Lavender wrote: The good news is that our probable back-up plan, Gillespie, has been a master at rebuilding programs.

I don't think UK needs "rebuilding," per se, but it's awful close.

I'm of the mind that coaches don't matter too much. They matter, but it's the players who win and lose. Unless Donovan or Gillespie or whomever brings with him some studs, we're going to have trouble next year. We'll probably be more fun to watch, but I don't see this team, if the roster stays as is, competing for any SEC titles.

Hope I'm wrong.


Is this a late april fools joke or have you done your second 180 in two months. With all due respect Will, how in the world can you say that coaches don't matter too much after you spent so much time captaining the WCN ship that drove Tubby out of town ?

But thank you for saying this because I do in fact AGREE with you to an extent. I love your line "it's the players who win and lose" mainly because THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL EVERYONE FOR THE LAST TWO SEASONS !!!!!!!

you mean it wasn't Tubby who dribbled the ball out of bounds or built brick houses across the southeast ? it wasn't Tubby who dropped passes and committed ridiculous fouls and played ole' defense and walked up the court ?

NOVEL FREAKING CONCEPT !

But where the coach really does matter, as you have pointed out several times, is on the recruiting trail, where of course Tubby just didn't get it done. That's why we need Billy. Not because he's one of the best at coaching the game (he's probably top-ten, as is Tubby), but because the high school studs with hoops dreams want to play for him right now. In that regard, he does deserve to be put on a pedestal, because there's nobody out there playing a more exciting brand of ball right now. Honestly, I don't care ifBilly can spell basketball, as long as the burger boys want to play for him.

[surveyor]

dolfan1616 wrote: I gaurded Jared Carter in High School, I was on Anderson county he was on Scott County 8th regional tournament and Im 5'8 He's 7'0 and he had 4 points .. Carter is going to be another FLOP big man NO DOUBT... Center Position is going to be a BIG concern next year in my eyes..
Carter had 4 of the team's 110 points?

Or was it the previous year when Anderson was drubbed 83 - 55? Likely this season, because the 110 points was scored the year after Carter.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

UFWildcat wrote: CatFanInTheBathtub wrote: atlandy wrote: CK1979 wrote: Just makes me nervous having Carter and Stevenson starting....Who backs them up?
Mark Coury and that kid who started against NOVA, Don't know his name cause it ain't on his jersey but I think it is Dwight Perry:lol:

Not sure they would both start. If they did, youre looking atWilliams and Harris then Coury as backups. Sounds scary to me but I really like our perimiter. In my opinion our best lineup will be Jasper,Meeks, Crawford, Bradley, and Stevenson, which would leave Carter and Stewart as the first two off the bench. inreality though Carter probably starts and Stevenson comes off.

I think people really get too bogged down with"positions".

"who's gonna play the 4 ?" "who's gonna play the 5?"

all we need is a point who can handle the ball, somebody who can rebound, and 3 other guys who are good at BASKETBALL.

BTW Dwight has made his last start until his senior night and probably plays very little next year.

Stevenson playing the 5...

That could get ugly.

things could be worse than having our best shot blocker start in the middle. What he needs is some (alot) of weight, preferablyin the form of muscle.

[Will Lavender]

CatFanInTheBathtub wrote: Will Lavender wrote: The good news is that our probable back-up plan, Gillespie, has been a master at rebuilding programs.

I don't think UK needs "rebuilding," per se, but it's awful close.

I'm of the mind that coaches don't matter too much. They matter, but it's the players who win and lose. Unless Donovan or Gillespie or whomever brings with him some studs, we're going to have trouble next year. We'll probably be more fun to watch, but I don't see this team, if the roster stays as is, competing for any SEC titles.

Hope I'm wrong.


Is this a late april fools joke or have you done your second 180 in two months. With all due respect Will, how in the world can you say that coaches don't matter too much after you spent so much time captaining the WCN ship that drove Tubby out of town ?


Maybe I should have qualified it.

They don't matter as much as many fans believe they do, in my opinion.

However, Tubby was a different case; there were reasons, reasons I'll not go into, that led me to believe that he did have an effect -- a negative one -- on the way his teams were playing.

Before last year I didn't believe in that theory and chalked it up to "Tubby bashing." But in the last couple of years I came to believe that Tubby did "matter"because (1) Tubby became, for some reason, very average with the clipboard, and (2) when our talent well dried up, he didn't look like a genius anymore.

So Tubby really doesn't apply to what I'm saying.

Here's what I'm saying:

If you give any coach, Tubby Smith included,good players he'll win.

Players matter. Players are what makes this game.

Coachesareimportant, but theypale in comparison to the importance of the boys.

I will say that recruiting IS coaching as far as I'm concerned. If you can recruit you can win at pretty much any level. Coaching and recruiting should not be separated; they are essentially part and parcel of the same skill, the same vocation.

So in that way, the coach does matter. Immensely.

But in terms of Xs and Os, strategy, on-court adjustments...

Eh. That's easy. Good players can overcome any of that.

[darksamus]

RxRusty wrote:
"Jared Carter is a poormans Orbzut!"

What evidence is there for this (and what exactly does it mean)?
Jared Carter has great potential.Â* I look for him to play well.
was jared highly recruited?

[Wildcat Larry]

Depends on whether you call having offers from UK and North Carolina as being highly recruited. :shrug:

[Will Lavender]

darksamus wrote: RxRusty wrote:
"Jared Carter is a poormans Orbzut!"

What evidence is there for this (and what exactly does it mean)?
Jared Carter has great potential. I look for him to play well.
was jared highly recruited?
Yes.

He was recruited by North Carolina and Illinois.

[RaleighCat]

Will Lavender wrote:
darksamus wrote: RxRusty wrote:
"Jared Carter is a poormans Orbzut!"

What evidence is there for this (and what exactly does it mean)?
Jared Carter has great potential.Â* I look for him to play well.
was jared highly recruited?
Yes.

He was recruited by North Carolina and Illinois.

Jared Carter at UNC = Neil Fingleton II.
Jared Carter at UK = Our best option at the 5 in '08.

Thanks, Tubby.

[dolfan1616]

it was his junior year in 04...i was a senior