The Culture of Bashing Rears Its Head Again

[Will Lavender]

What's most disappointing about this whole thing is that the next coach -- even if it's Billy Gillespie or Rick Barnes, two fine coaches in my opinion -- will be hesitantly embraced by the Big Blue Nation.

I really believe that.

And I hate it.

Those same folks who wanted Tubby gone two years into his tenure will be back in full force, and it will again be a battle between apologists and bashers. There will be a new DynastyDefenders, a new Richard Cheeks, and again the definition of what a true "fan" is will be contested ad nauseum on these websites.

Granted, the debate's not going to be as severe as it was with Tubby. But it will be there. And it shouldn't be there. We should give the next guy a chance to right this ship.

[RP_McMurphy]

Why do you think Doyel thought we should have one coach we could all settle on. The Nation is dived upon itself now. We need a unifying force and one with one helluva ego to put up with our ego's.

[DCWildcat]

I agree. If he rights the ship, it'll probably go away (at least in most part. People have a strange way of taking their previously held beliefs all the way to the grave, even in the face of overwhelming evidence).

But until that happens, there'll be discord. Which is completely unfair, as the coach, whoever it will be, should be given ample time to put his system in place, recruit his players, and turn things around. And that sucks.

[nicholasvilleFAN]

Will Lavender wrote: What's most disappointing about this whole thing is that the next coach -- even if it's Billy Gillespie or Rick Barnes, two fine coaches in my opinion -- will be hesitantly embraced by the Big Blue Nation.

I really believe that.

And I hate it.

Those same folks who wanted Tubby gone two years into his tenure will be back in full force, and it will again be a battle between apologists and bashers. There will be a new DynastyDefenders, a new Richard Cheeks, and again the definition of what a true "fan" is will be contested ad nauseum on these websites.

Granted, the debate's not going to be as severe as it was with Tubby. But it will be there. And it shouldn't be there. We should give the next guy a chance to right this ship.

Good observation Will, but wouldn't that be the case going forward with no matter who the coach is?

[KapitalCat]

It is critical Mitch bring in some that can unite the BBN. It is getting ugly and guys like Dick Vitale may be right and we could be seeing the demise of a once proud program. Things are at a critical mass..could go either way.

[katfever]

Will Lavender wrote: What's most disappointing about this whole thing is that the next coach -- even if it's Billy Gillespie or Rick Barnes, two fine coaches in my opinion -- will be hesitantly embraced by the Big Blue Nation.

I really believe that.

And I hate it.

Those same folks who wanted Tubby gone two years into his tenure will be back in full force, and it will again be a battle between apologists and bashers. There will be a new DynastyDefenders, a new Richard Cheeks, and again the definition of what a true "fan" is will be contested ad nauseum on these websites.

Granted, the debate's not going to be as severe as it was with Tubby. But it will be there. And it shouldn't be there. We should give the next guy a chance to right this ship.

I think Billy G would be welcomed with open arms.

[Will Lavender]

katfever wrote: Will Lavender wrote: What's most disappointing about this whole thing is that the next coach -- even if it's Billy Gillespie or Rick Barnes, two fine coaches in my opinion -- will be hesitantly embraced by the Big Blue Nation.

I really believe that.

And I hate it.

Those same folks who wanted Tubby gone two years into his tenure will be back in full force, and it will again be a battle between apologists and bashers. There will be a new DynastyDefenders, a new Richard Cheeks, and again the definition of what a true "fan" is will be contested ad nauseum on these websites.

Granted, the debate's not going to be as severe as it was with Tubby. But it will be there. And it shouldn't be there. We should give the next guy a chance to right this ship.

I think Billy G would be welcomed with open arms.
He's probably the closest we've got to a uniter.

But I think even Gillespie will get the cold shoulder from a percentage of fans. I've seen the "No Gillespie!" posts popping up already.

And what about a guy like Izzo? I think Tom Izzo is a HELL of a basketball coach, but there'll be a meltdown if he's hired.

Unfair.

[DCWildcat]

RP_McMurphy wrote: Why do you think Doyel thought we should have one coach we could all settle on. The Nation is dived upon itself now. We need a unifying force and one with one helluva ego to put up with our ego's.

I agree. Unfortunately, I don't know if that coach exists.

Gillispie? That criticisms that have been made of him so far are ridiculous; the only one that I can find any validity for is that he's inexperienced. Many are already completely convinced that he'll run a painfully slow offense and we'll be playing "Tubbyball" reincarnated. Where they get this from, I have no idea. But there's already a strange opposition to a guy who has done basically as well as anyone could've done in his position.

Izzo? Probably goes without saying, but folks like me that like him are in the distinct minority. For some reason, people are more obsessed now with style than winning, and this man has won a lot. Defense and rebounding = anathema.

Crean and Brey are obvious.

Barnes? People question his actual coaching skills pretty much everywhere.

Calipari? A large portion of the fanbase loves him, and a smaller (but still large) portion of the fanbase hates him, either for being shady with recruits, for being a poor in-game coach, or for being poor at talent development. There's probably less grey area here than with any other coach.

Donovan is the only coach our fanbase would've united behind. A shame.

[Nashville Kat]

I can see where ya'll are coming from, but I'm hoping that all of the yelping will cease once we get over the initial "shock" of the Billy D. thing. For better or worse, a lot of people had a lot of emotional energy invested in what they thought was a sure thing.

My yin (or is it yang?) tells me that balance will come to the Big Blue Universe soon...very soon, Grasshoppa.

[katfever]

Dang DC, I agree with you two times in one night. :PI do not understand the grief about Billy G- every game I saw was a up and down the floor game. Was Texas-Texas A&M not a 90 plus game? He is young, hungry, and made A&M a top team.

[Will Lavender]

katfever wrote: Dang DC, I agree with you two times in one night. :PI do not understand the grief about Billy G- every game I saw was a up and down the floor game. Was Texas-Texas A&M not a 90 plus game? He is young, hungry, and made A&M a top team.
Maybe I'm overstating it. Hope so.

Anyway, I agree with you. I LOVE Gillespie.

[DCWildcat]

Will Lavender wrote: katfever wrote: Dang DC, I agree with you two times in one night. :PI do not understand the grief about Billy G- every game I saw was a up and down the floor game. Was Texas-Texas A&M not a 90 plus game? He is young, hungry, and made A&M a top team.
Maybe I'm overstating it. Hope so.

Anyway, I agree with you. I LOVE Gillespie.


Holy crap, katfever and I agreed twice in one day--and to the best of my knowledge, only one of us has been hitting the bourbon tonight :D My mancrush on Gillispie has been growing substantially every day since Tubby left. I wasn't that upset that Billy D said no, but if we don't get Gillispie, I'll be pretty distraught.

[Bob Day]

katfever wrote: Dang DC, I agree with you two times in one night. :PI do not understand the grief about Billy G- every game I saw was a up and down the floor game. Was Texas-Texas A&M not a 90 plus game? He is young, hungry, and made A&M a top team.
He is also a dyed-in-the-wool Texas boy whose only foray outside of Texas has been to pick up coaching chops at Tulsa and Illinois, which he then took back to Texas. I don't know how many UK fans are aware that there is an "initiative" in Texas to promote its university sports programs to the upper echelons of the NCAA competition. It goes to the highest seats of power and the deepest of pockets. Money is NO object.

This plays no small role in why we see Bobby Knight at Tech, Rick Barnes at UT and Billy Gillespie at A&M. Personally, I don't think it is going to be that easy to get Billy G out of Texas. Arkansas and others have already seen that and I believe for anyone to say, "he will come to Kentucky, because it is Kentucky", underestimates the complexity and challenges inherent in securing him for the job. It would probably be better if I were wrong, but personally, I don't think he is going to bite on it.

[UKhoov]

DCWildcat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: katfever wrote: Dang DC, I agree with you two times in one night. :PI do not understand the grief about Billy G- every game I saw was a up and down the floor game. Was Texas-Texas A&M not a 90 plus game? He is young, hungry, and made A&M a top team.
Maybe I'm overstating it. Hope so.

Anyway, I agree with you. I LOVE Gillespie.


Holy crap, katfever and I agreed twice in one day--and to the best of my knowledge, only one of us has been hitting the bourbon tonight :D My mancrush on Gillispie has been growing substantially every day since Tubby left. I wasn't that upset that Billy D said no, but if we don't get Gillispie, I'll be pretty distraught.

Couldnt agree more. I was unsure at first but his history is a very good one once I got to looking into it. Ill be behind whoever we get , albeit would be extremely hard to for Crean or Few. But Im ready to move on and Im pulling for Gillispie at this point.

[Littlemeyer]

DCWildcat wrote: I wasn't that upset that Billy D said no, but if we don't get Gillispie, I'll be pretty distraught.

That's exactly where I am, DC. Part of me always wanted Gillispie over Donovan from the beginning. Small part, but it was there.

[Will Lavender]

Bob Day wrote: katfever wrote: Dang DC, I agree with you two times in one night. :PI do not understand the grief about Billy G- every game I saw was a up and down the floor game. Was Texas-Texas A&M not a 90 plus game? He is young, hungry, and made A&M a top team.
He is also a dyed-in-the-wool Texas boy whose only foray outside of Texas has been to pick up coaching chops at Tulsa and Illinois, which he then took back to Texas. I don't know how many UK fans are aware that there is an "initiative" in Texas to promote its university sports programs to the upper echelons of the NCAA competition. It goes to the highest seats of power and the deepest of pockets. Money is NO object.

This plays no small role in why we see Bobby Knight at Tech, Rick Barnes at UT and Billy Gillespie at A&M. Personally, I don't think it is going to be that easy to get Billy G out of Texas. Arkansas and others have already seen that and I believe for anyone to say, "he will come to Kentucky, because it is Kentucky", underestimates the complexity and challenges inherent in securing him for the job. It would probably be better if I were wrong, but personally, I don't think he is going to bite on it.

But: Gillespie was going to take the Arkansas job.

And when you say "sports programs," you're really talking about football. The University of Texas is a different animal; it could pay a racquetball coach a ton of money.

There are limits however to what Texas A&M will pay for basketball, IMO.

[Doug Hardin]

Interesting poll results on Matt Jones's blog tonight.

"Now knowing that Donovan is gone....who do you want to be the UK coach out of these four contenders?"


Rick Barnes: 10% (77)
Billy Gillispie: 76% (608)
Jay Wright: 8% (62)
Tom Izzo: 7% (52)
Total Votes : 799[/i] (at 10:32 p.m. Thursday night)

Since 76% list him as their top choice, I'm sure the Billy G. approval rate would at least be around 85% - 90% starting out.

But Will, I do agree with you. Eventually, division will occur, regardless of the coach. Heck, even if Donovan had been hired, it wouldn't have taken long for people to entrench themselves into the "basher" or "apologist" camp. It's just the nature of sports in the Internet Era.

[kipper265]

DCWildcat wroteHoly crap, katfever and I agreed twice in one day--and to the best of my knowledge, only one of us has been hitting the bourbon tonight :D My mancrush on Gillispie has been growing substantially every day since Tubby left. I wasn't that upset that Billy D said no, but if we don't get Gillispie, I'll be pretty distraught.

Me, too.

[cats65]

If you buy into the Kenpom site and all the statistical analysis, Gillespie's team is actually 235th in adjusted tempo. However, I feel tempo and exciting basketball are seperate things. Georgetown, for example, was near the bottom of D1 in that category and I found them very entertaining to watch. But as for the original post, I agree with the point that whoever the hire is there will be those who will be opposed to it from day one. I'm a strong Gillespie lean at this point.

[katfever]

:lol:DCWildcat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: katfever wrote: Dang DC, I agree with you two times in one night. :PI do not understand the grief about Billy G- every game I saw was a up and down the floor game. Was Texas-Texas A&M not a 90 plus game? He is young, hungry, and made A&M a top team.
Maybe I'm overstating it. Hope so.

Anyway, I agree with you. I LOVE Gillespie.


Holy crap, katfever and I agreed twice in one day--and to the best of my knowledge, only one of us has been hitting the bourbon tonight :D My mancrush on Gillispie has been growing substantially every day since Tubby left. I wasn't that upset that Billy D said no, but if we don't get Gillispie, I'll be pretty distraught.
:lol:LOL Was I disappointed BD said no? Yes- but not for the reasons one may think. I knew BD would bring the fan base together. Is he great coach? Yes he proved it. Could Billy G be just as good or better with the Big Blue Nation resources? I have a hunch yes. Plus nothing would please me more than to beat Bd's *** now- and you know what? I think Billy G would have the arrogance, confidence and coaching to do just that!

[Bob Day]

Will Lavender wrote: Bob Day wrote: katfever wrote: Dang DC, I agree with you two times in one night. :PI do not understand the grief about Billy G- every game I saw was a up and down the floor game. Was Texas-Texas A&M not a 90 plus game? He is young, hungry, and made A&M a top team.
He is also a dyed-in-the-wool Texas boy whose only foray outside of Texas has been to pick up coaching chops at Tulsa and Illinois, which he then took back to Texas. I don't know how many UK fans are aware that there is an "initiative" in Texas to promote its university sports programs to the upper echelons of the NCAA competition. It goes to the highest seats of power and the deepest of pockets. Money is NO object.

This plays no small role in why we see Bobby Knight at Tech, Rick Barnes at UT and Billy Gillespie at A&M. Personally, I don't think it is going to be that easy to get Billy G out of Texas. Arkansas and others have already seen that and I believe for anyone to say, "he will come to Kentucky, because it is Kentucky", underestimates the complexity and challenges inherent in securing him for the job. It would probably be better if I were wrong, but personally, I don't think he is going to bite on it.

But: Gillespie was going to take the Arkansas job.

And when you say "sports programs," you're really talking about football. The University of Texas is a different animal; it could pay a racquetball coach a ton of money.

There are limits however to what Texas A&M will pay for basketball, IMO.

I don't think so Will for the following reasons. First of all, I believe Gillespie was flattered by the offer from Arkansas, gave it some real consideration and, probably used it to some extent at least to test A&M's interest and commitment not just in him, but in the A&M program as well.

As for money, do folks here have any idea of the amount of wealth that is represented in the College Station area--located right in the heart of Texas oil and agriculture? We Kentuckians have nothing to compare it with. There are cities down here that are probably richer than the entire state of Kentucky. I live in one of them. There are probably between 20 to 30 as large and wealthy as Lexington. It is a large scale.

Ultimately, I don't think it is going to be just about money with Billy Gillespie. It will be about whether Texas and the people thereof are going to get behind him or not. It will be about support for the whole situation, including him. Money is not just there for football, it is available for basketball as well. We are talking more money than most folks have every dreamed of just made available for the state's major university programs.

Basketball is considered a premier sport and Texas has not seriously been in the picture historically. They don't like being tagged as just a football state down here and given the importance of collegiate basketball these days, they don't like being considered minor contenders in that arean. These things are not just my opinion. It is a matter of public record. As I referred to it in my previous post, it is an "initiative".

We'll see how it all plays out, but one thing I know, the state of Texas and Texas A&M are going to work very diligently to keep Billy Gillespie and, if that means building a new, "state of the art" basketball facility, investing several million dollars in promoting the A&M program or no telling what else, I believe they will do so if that is what it takes to keep BG at home.

I think what it will boil down to is that, as it was with Billy Donovan, Billy Gillespie will be the one that will decide and that won't be a decision overwhealming influenced by "Kentucky being Kentucky."

[phoenix]

All that is true and from what it says, he has a top recruiting class coming in, however, he also recognizes the status and power of basektball at certain schools, KY being one of them. He may hop for both the historical berth, the already present facilities, and if you want to devote your life to something rabidly, why not go where it will be rabidly appreciated?

UK fans not liking Gillespie, well, let's get real, alot of fans don't know up tempo basketball from up a woodchuck's hind end. If they get fast breaks and dunks during the game with a W at the end, that will probably suite them-if other posters get on here and claim it IS up tempo.

Now we need to see what Barnhart is really capable of doing. He better bring this one home.

[SamKat]

Billy G looks good. I hope he and Mitch B. give a good look at the Kentucky Wildcat job.

[BigblueDrew]

I like what I hear about the man. I am ready for UK to have a coach. He is young and energetic and appears to be a good hire , time will tell, I'm on board.

[poodoo]

Will Lavender wrote: What's most disappointing about this whole thing is that the next coach -- even if it's Billy Gillespie or Rick Barnes, two fine coaches in my opinion -- will be hesitantly embraced by the Big Blue Nation.

I really believe that.

And I hate it.

Those same folks who wanted Tubby gone two years into his tenure will be back in full force, and it will again be a battle between apologists and bashers. There will be a new DynastyDefenders, a new Richard Cheeks, and again the definition of what a true "fan" is will be contested ad nauseum on these websites.

Granted, the debate's not going to be as severe as it was with Tubby. But it will be there. And it shouldn't be there. We should give the next guy a chance to right this ship.


I hear you, Will, BUT it's going quite well so far. :)Too, the more people who listen to Gillispie's press conference, the more people who are at least going to start out in his camp. :D

All of us absolutely SHOULD "give the next guy a chance to right this ship," though, as you say. An optimist, I'm going to hope for the best. :)Again, though, I do hear you. :)