Recruit Watch: Willie Warren PG/SG '08

[Coldstream]

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/26/268451m.jpg (javascript:photos();)
Ht: 6-4 Wt: 190
Position: SG, PG
Year: Class of 2008
AAU Team: Team Texas
High School: North Crowley HS (http://hstexas.scout.com/)
(Fort Worth, TX)
2008 Scout.com HS Basketball Rankings (full list (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&yr=2008&cfg=bb)):
Pos: SG
Pos Rank: #4
Pos Rating: http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif
Scout.com Player Evaluation:
STRENGTHS
http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/eval_pro.gifPerimeter Shot
http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/eval_pro.gifVersatility
AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT
http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/eval_con.gifDefensive Presence
http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/eval_con.gifFinisher

High scoring guard has a developing body that continues to be very strong. Big reputation in his area and nationally early on.







http://www.kentucky.com/276/story/43140.html


Texas Connection II
Former UK coach Tubby Smith had a connection with Willie Warren, a shooting guard from Fort Worth. One of the assistant coaches at North Crowley High, Gary Collier, had played for Smith at Tulsa.
Now Billy Gillispie's move from Texas A&M to UK has enhanced the Cats' chances for Warren, a top 40 player in the high school junior class.
"Kentucky shot way up there when I spoke with (Warren)," North Crowley Coach Tommy Brakel said.
Analyst Brick Oettinger of the Prep Stars recruiting service likened Warren to a football linebacker: 6-2, 210 pounds. The recruiting race had a false start when Arkansas, one of Warren's favorite schools, fired Stan Heath. Kansas, Texas and Memphis have been wooing Warren.

[Gunsmoke]

Thanks and keep 'em coming!:lol:Coach G is after some top players and they seem to really respond to him.

[teamchemistry09]

Can someone get a picture of him next to a pic of Jodie Meeks? Anyone else see it lol

[Coldstream]

Willie Warren

Willie Warren will spend his senior season at Oak Hill Academy, playing for Kentuckian Steve Smith at the national powerhouse. Warren told Evan Daniels of Scout.com the news on Sunday night and will join Brandon Jennings in the backcourt at Oak Hill.

Warren, who is considering UK, plays for Team Texas and I will try to chat with him about the move this weekend at the Memorial Day Classic in Nashville.
Monday nuggets
Here are a few recruiting nuggets for the day:

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/demling/blog.html

[Caveman Catfan]

Scout lists him as a SG/PG. I have always only considered him a SG.

Absent someone leaving for reasons other than graduation, if we have only three schollies to give, do you think Gillispie will try to sign BOTH Warren AND Miller?

[RCS]

Scout lists him as a SG/PG. I have always only considered him a SG.

Absent someone leaving for reasons other than graduation, if we have only three schollies to give, do you think Gillispie will try to sign BOTH Warren AND Miller?
Miller is a SF more than a SG, so possibly, but I just don't see the need for a SG now that we have signed Legion. I think this is part of the reason that Okl. leads now when UK was leading a month ago.

[Caveman Catfan]

Miller is a SF more than a SG, so possibly, but I just don't see the need for a SG now that we have signed Legion. I think this is part of the reason that Okl. leads now when UK was leading a month ago.

Legion probably does weaken our chances or the chances at Warren.

Warren is 6'4"? In Gillispie's no position offense, an athlete with an outside shot like Warren might very well play the SF. With only 3 schollies, I wonder if two of them should be used to fill overlapping spots. Of course, there might very well be more than three schollies, but from the current perspective, I wonder if two players that play the wing, with neither having pure PG skills, is advisable.

Just an offseason thought.

[teamchemistry09]

I think we are/will be in most need of Miller at SF and a center or PF who will play center. We need to keep in mind we need at least 1 scholly for 09 and hopefully we can free up some or save some and have 2 or 3 for that year. With Coach G recruiting like this we cant afford to miss out on top 25 players

[matt57]

i remember an article or a blurb in an article recently about warren focusing on is ball handling during the summer. it was mentioned that he is more than capable of running the point but just doesn't have the mindset yet. the also mentioned that would be the position he plays in the nba. they compared him to gilbert arenas. i'll see if i can't find it again.

[Got_Billie_G?]

Warren can play the point...imagine Derek Jasper with more quickness and a jump shot..WOW...really need to get Warren he's a star in the making...

[Sticeman]

I dont see the need for Warren IMO we have Meeks, and Legion to carry our scoring the next few years. I'm sure Warren will want to start as a freshman and I dont think that would happen. I know hes going to be great I just dont think we will be able to meet his expectations with PT.

I think we need to concentrate on 4's and 5's for the 08 season and get a few top G's in the 09 class just one mans opinion.

[teamchemistry09]

Yes we are fine with the guards for this year and next, but we cannot miss out on Miller next year. We need this kid. A Kentucky boy who is the SF we need. A scorer and he has the size to play the position. Next year we need Miller and a center or a HUGE PF and well be fine.

[DCWildcat]

Warren can play the point...imagine Derek Jasper with more quickness and a jump shot..WOW...really need to get Warren he's a star in the making...

Eh, I don't think Warren has Jasper's vision and awareness. If he did, he'd easily be the #1 prospect on the country, coupled with his other talents.

[Got_Billie_G?]

so if Jasper had a jump shot he'd be the top recruit from last year's class? doubt it...

[Littlemeyer]

so if Jasper had a jump shot he'd be the top recruit from last year's class? doubt it...

A 6'6" PG with all of Jasper's skills...and a great jump shot? I don't know, man. He may not've been the top recruit, what with Durant and Oden, but he would've been up there fairly high. IMO, of course.

[DCWildcat]

so if Jasper had a jump shot he'd be the top recruit from last year's class? doubt it...

I didn't suggest that at all. George Bush with John Kerry's hair would be nothing like John Kerry with George Bush's hair.

[Will Lavender]

so if Jasper had a jump shot he'd be the top recruit from last year's class? doubt it...

Yes, he would have been.

If you're as big as Jasper is, if you can pass like he can, and if you can shoot -- heck, what more do you want?

[Got_Billie_G?]

Top Recruits From Last Year

Greg Oden
Kevin Durant
Brandon Wright
Thadeus Young
Willie Kemp
Daquan Cook
Mike Conley Jr
Wayne Ellington
Ty Lawson
DJ Augustin
Javaris Crittenden
Spencer Hawes

sorry, Jasper with an outside game is no better than any of these guys

[Will Lavender]

Top Recruits From Last Year

Greg Oden
Kevin Durant
Brandon Wright
Thadeus Young
Willie Kemp
Daquan Cook
Mike Conley Jr
Wayne Ellington
Ty Lawson
DJ Augustin
Javaris Crittenden
Spencer Hawes

sorry, Jasper with an outside game is no better than any of these guys

Outside of Durant, Wright, and Oden, I don't see why Derrick Jasper couldn't be as good or better than everybody on that list.

But like all speculative arguments, this one is sort of silly because nobody is right or wrong.

I will say this:

We didn't see a tip -- not even a tip -- of Jasper's potential last season. I think he lost confidence midway through and sort of floated through the second half of the season. I watched him in practice in October and the kid was jaw-dropping good.

With a jumpshot -- even just a semblance of one -- he's an all-SEC talent.

[Got_Billie_G?]

I agree Will, this is all "what could be" and since there is no substantiated facts to really prove anything we could go back and forth all day as to what our opinions of potential are...we can just agree to disagree...

[WildcatRick]

by Marc Maggard

Willie Warren fouled out with 24 points in a game against the Memphis YOMCA team comprised of mostly 2009 players. Texas has been without thier full compliment of players for a few weekends now and it's really making Willie Warren and Rotnei Clarke do a lot more of the work. Rotnei Clarke had 30 points in an overtime win as the Texas Elite team pulled out the win.
I spoke to Willie after the game and here is a PARAPHRASED inteview with him….

MM: What is your school list
WW: My mom and I have decided that we are going to listen to everyone and I am wide open right now. Especially with my move to Oak Hill, it's going to allow me to see what college coaches are really interested and get a better viewing of who is really wants me that bad….

MM: So which schools really seem to be recruiting you the hardest right now?

WW: It's hard to tell cause there are many schools that are coming just as hard, but if I HAD to say, it would probably be Oklahoma, Marquette, Uconn, Texas and Kentucky.
MM: Is there any particular style of play you are looking for?

WW: (quick answer with empahsis) Run and gun…let the guards play.

http://blog.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=2565

[poodoo]

Thanks for all the links, WildcatRick.

Also, this one is a particularly good read. I sense that Oklahoma and Kansas have an advantage in also recruiting his teammate and friend (Clarke), but UK might have an advantage in its head coach, who PUSHES his players hard to be their best. Here's hoping UK comes out ahead in the recruitment of Mr. Warren. GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[Got_Billie_G?]

Word was (and take it for what it's worth) he was going to commit to UK a month ago, but his mother asked that he wait to see what all his options are, can't really blame them since you get free trips to top colleges and people kissing your butt for the next year...the transfer to Oak Hill helps us since he'll be closer to UK and we have a solid relationship with Oak Hill head coach Steve Smith....I think we can get him but it's turned into a dog-fight...

[Coldstream]

5a_wW6Zf0Qk

[Littlemeyer]

:eek:

[Bird]

that dunk wasn't that great. I did almost the same type dunk on my nerf goal on my door when I was 12. Why I never recieved a scholly to play ball is still a mystery to me.

[teamchemistry09]

Yea if you cant jump over a 6'9 guy and dunk then you arent that good lol that dunk was amazing. Vince Carter-esque although I dont believe that guy was 7'0 but maybe

[Gunsmoke]

Elevation or levitation or just plain ole nasty in your face!!!:shock: It looked like that ref called a T on him. What????

[kybuc]

That dunk was just plain Ruthless Nasty!

[Littlemeyer]

It looked like that ref called a T on him. What????

My thoughts exactly. Sure, he acted out a bit. But it was tame...perhaps I should italicize that...tame...compared to what I would have done had I ever jumped over a guy that tall and dunked a basketball.

:big_grin:

[teamchemistry09]

I probably would have ripped my jersey off pounded on my chest and gave him the ole degeneration x "suck it" lol

[CatClaws1]

wow that dunk was nasty!!! wouldn't mind seeing more of those from him in a UK blue jersey

[Bombastic Blue]

My thoughts exactly. Sure, he acted out a bit. But it was tame...perhaps I should italicize that...tame...compared to what I would have done had I ever jumped over a guy that tall and dunked a basketball.

:big_grin:

If I ever got up that high I would rent a billboard!

[Craig the Blueheart]

My thoughts exactly. Sure, he acted out a bit. But it was tame...perhaps I should italicize that...tame...compared to what I would have done had I ever jumped over a guy that tall and dunked a basketball.

:big_grin:

I concur... that was just ridiculous.

[BamaCat86]

Judging from Willie's reaction after the play, it looks like the refs called him for a charge on the play.

[crazzedcats22]

that dunk was unreal. It's one thing for Vince Carter to do something like that but for a 17? year old high school kid to do it is unblievable!

[JayB]

that dunk wasn't that great. I did almost the same type dunk on my nerf goal on my door when I was 12. Why I never recieved a scholly to play ball is still a mystery to me.


lmao good one.

[TruBluFan3]

Judging from Willie's reaction after the play, it looks like the refs called him for a charge on the play.

His reaction was because they T'd him up after his celebration.

[teamchemistry09]

Yea the ref on the baseline gave him a T

[FCFS82]

pwn3d!

[wildcatdon]

it was a charge and he was T'd up..but boy he can get up..

[Caveman Catfan]

Willie Warren's list


http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/demling/uploaded_images/Willie-Warren-ball-702494.jpg (http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/demling/uploaded_images/Willie-Warren-ball-702502.jpg)

I have been asked a number of times about the list that Texas star Willie Warren - who will be at Oak Hill Academy in the fall - gave to the Dallas Morning News.

Warren listed Kansas, Texas, UCLA, Arizona, Connecticut and Florida in the paper this week.

What happened to Kentucky? I wouldn't fret Wildcat fans!

-m0re-

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/demling/2007/06/willie-warrens-list.html

[DCWildcat]

It's kind of funny that Jody even had to make this post. TCP had a really dumb post where someone couldn't differentiate between a few schools the author decided to list, and Warren's own Top Whatever.

[Coldstream]

Afternoon Tidbit (http://blog.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=2783)

by Matt Jones @ 2:44 pm. Filed under Blue Blooded Opinions (http://blog.kentuckysportsradio.com/?cat=1)
Quick news before I take off from NYC back to the Bluegrass. Willie Warren tells the Kansas Rivals.com site that he will be going to the same school as Rotnei Clarke. Considering UK's position with Clarke, this is very good news. As far as I know, only UK, Kansas and Oklahoma are recruiting both.
Sports Mob today has no Matt or Rob….instead it is the great Monday Evening Quarterbacks. Matt is back tomorrow. Until tonite……

[freethrow]

This is great news and I hope it happens that both pick UK. I posted something about this a few minutes ago in the "current list of recruits" thread. The amount of recruiting activity since Coach G arrived is amazing. :thumbup::thumbup:

[DCWildcat]

Huge news, and Travis Releford committing to KU certainly improves our chances.

Rotnei opened the possibility of committing this weekend, which would be awesome if it lead to a quick follow up commitment by Warren.

If that doesn't happen, DeAndre Liggins' decision, if made before Clarke's and Warren's, could have a very big impact on where Clarke and Warren end up. Since Kansas was the favorite all along, by a wide margin, and we're now the favorite, and there's only two other schools on the list (man I'm qualifying this a lot), I think it's safe to say there's a >50% chance Liggins end up at some combination of the letters U and K.

[poodoo]

This is great news and I hope it happens that both pick UK. I posted something about this a few minutes ago in the "current list of recruits" thread. The amount of recruiting activity since Coach G arrived is amazing. :thumbup::thumbup:

There's no doubt about that, freethrow. :thumbup::thumbup: to Coach G from me, too. :icon_biggrin: GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[Bird]

Being reproted by Matt Jones that he spoke with Willie's mother and she said Willie talks to much and will anounce his decision when it is final. You got to love those mothers.

[RaleighCat]

Being reproted by Matt Jones that he spoke with Willie's mother and she said Willie talks to much and will anounce his decision when it is final. You got to love those mothers.

Just saw that news myself. Warren is a character if nothing else.
Oh, and a great player, too.

[Will Lavender]

Bizarre. :shrug1:

[crazzedcats22]

not a surprise, he's committed to about 100 schools (actually just 2 others) and has backed off that. He is a complete attention hog and I would be content with him not playing at UK. I see too much fo Rashad Carruth in Willie.

[scfcats]

Sounds like mom is mad. I like the comment that Willie "talks to much".

I'm not sure if we would want a guy like this. Seems like a big ego, and not very responsible.

[BigBlue75]

Did this kid graduate from the "Billy Donovan School of Decision-Making"? :confused:

[Bird]

Did this kid graduate from the "Billy Donovan School of Decision-Making"? :confused:

good one

[KYISSUPREME]

Did this kid graduate from the "Billy Donovan School of Decision-Making"? :confused:

Ah, you beat me to it. Lol, that was a good one.

[matt colvin]

Well do you think we're still going after him or ........

I definitely want Clarke, and a Zeller or Dunigan in that class. Throw in a splash of Miller or Warren-type player, and there you go.

But does the offer still stand for Willie? It will be interesting, that is for sure. Go after him, keep him away from Kansas? Or leave him alone. This is worth watching for sure as it will give some insight to our coaches recruiting philosophy.

[DCWildcat]

not a surprise, he's committed to about 100 schools (actually just 2 others) and has backed off that. He is a complete attention hog and I would be content with him not playing at UK. I see too much fo Rashad Carruth in Willie.

Where do you get that he's an attention hog, and the Carruth comparisons? By all accounts he's a hard-working kid, with no academic or legal baggage, and no problems with authority. None of which can be said about Carruth.

Again, I think people are getting too judgmental about a kid who is simply very confident and probably a little too impulsive.

[BigBlue75]

Let me say in all seriousness if the young man settles down and ultimately decides he wants to be a Wildcat, I'll welcome him with open arms. I can't fault him for being a teenager and acting like one. I'm sure when it gets down to the nitty-gritty he'll make a good decision for himself and his family.:thumbup:

[teamchemistry09]

IMPO I couldnt care less if he has the biggest ego in the world. As long as he stays out of trouble, which he has, he is fine with me and I say bring him on. IMO if a kid is as good as he is, there isnt too much wrong if he knows it lol

[Terry L. Wildcat]

"He talk's to (sic) much"...when I read that the first player I thought of was Carruth and the Duke game :icon_rolleyes:

[matt colvin]

Lol, Rashad!!!! I think he went to some military school after that, lol.

He was a rascal, to say the least.

[Bird]

Where do you get that he's an attention hog, and the Carruth comparisons? By all accounts he's a hard-working kid, with no academic or legal baggage, and no problems with authority. None of which can be said about Carruth.

Again, I think people are getting too judgmental about a kid who is simply very confident and probably a little too impulsive.

I agree with you. The kid comes across as pretty goofy from some of his quotes and his rash decision making, but lets not be too quick to judge just yet.

[poodoo]

Again, I think people are getting too judgmental about a kid who is simply very confident and probably a little too impulsive.

Poodoo, the Public Defender, says the same. ;) NONE of us KNOW Willie Warren. While I understand that the young man is not coming across as mature, he is only a youngster and comparing him to Rashad Carruth seems unfair to me. Most of all, I trust Coach Gillispie to make recruiting decisions. :) GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[matt colvin]

Poodoo, the Public Defender, says the same. ;) NONE of us KNOW Willie Warren. While I understand that the young man is not coming across as mature, he is only a youngster and comparing him to Rashad Carruth seems unfair to me. Most of all, I trust Coach Gillispie to make recruiting decisions. :) GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

poodoo, as usual, you are the voice of reason on this forum. I really appreciate you and your contributions to this forum. Go Cats :widcat::widcat::widcat::widcat:

[bleedbluelady]

Poodoo, the Public Defender, says the same. ;) NONE of us KNOW Willie Warren. While I understand that the young man is not coming across as mature, he is only a youngster and comparing him to Rashad Carruth seems unfair to me. Most of all, I trust Coach Gillispie to make recruiting decisions. :) GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

I agree. :icon_surprised::icon_surprised:;):thumbup: It sounds like he has a good Mom to keep him in line. :):thumbup:

[poodoo]

I also liked Warren's mom's response, bleedbluelady. :thumbup: :thumbup: to her.

Too, thanks for the kind words, matt colvin. They were appreciated. GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[WildcatRick]

by Matt Jones

I just got off the phone with our man Willie Warren, which is always entertaining and refreshing. Often times with high school kids, it is tough to get them to talk and open up. Not Willie. He answered a few of my questions and spoke about the status of his recruitment. Here are the highlights:

At this point in your recruitment, have you narrowed your list of schools down or figured out where you are going to visit?

I am not sure where I am going to visit, but I have narrowed the list down to 8. In order they are:
Oklahoma
Texas
Kansas
Louisville
Cincy
Kentucky
Marquette
Arizona

When you say in order, is that your order of favorites?

Right now it is. But you never know if it will change.

A few weeks ago it was reported you were committed to Baylor, yet now I dont see them on the list. What happened?

You know that whole think was just complicated. It is a huge misunderstanding thats all it is.

Do you plan on visiting the local schools, Kentucky or Louisville?

Yeah I am going to stop by both of them on my way to moving to Oak Hill. I love Kentucky basketball and I cant wait to see both places.

Why do you like the two schools?

Well for both of them, it is just style of play. You know for Louisville, its all Coach Pitino. He has a lot of connections and has been at the next level and won a national championship. For Kentucky, I like Coach Gillispie and what he did with Acie Law. I like his playing style and the players he brought in and all that. Plus, its Kentucky and the fans and all that are great.

http://blog.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=2985

[Will Lavender]

Warren has visited UK and we're sixth on his list?

No chance with this one, although I still think the kid is going to be a beast. I can't tell if his attitude's a good thing or a bad thing. Probably shouldn't make too harsh of a judgement about Willie considering all I know about him I've learned from blogs.

[matt colvin]

Warren has visited UK and we're sixth on his list?



Where did you read that he's already visited??? I'm almost sure he hasn't.

[DCWildcat]

Think he took an unofficial when he did that "almsot" commit thing a month or so ago.

I think our chances are about what everyone else's are. The kid freaking committed to Baylor last week and doesn't even have them in his final 8 now!

Only schools that I really think might have a distinct edge are Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Louisville.

[WildcatRick]

I talked with Texas guard Willie Warren after Team Texas won its final game of the day this evening. Warren had 24 points in a 75-67 victory and had a nasty dunk.

He was all alone in the backcourt with the ball when he slowed down in the middle of the lane, cuffed the ball in his right hand, swung it around and did a windmill dunk.

It drew oh's and ah's even from the college coaches. By the way, Kentucky coach Billy Gillispie was in the stands (UK is also recruiting his teammate Rotnei Clarke) and Louisville assistant coach Steve Masiello was standing in the end zone.

After the game, Warren told me that he has a list of 10 schools now. Seton Hall and Connecticut are new players in the race for the 6-foot-4 guard from North Crawley High School.

He said that "schools two through eight are all the same. There's no 2 and no 8."

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/demling/2007/07/wille-warren-update.html

[DCWildcat]

I think Warren views himself of more of a PG than we do.

If we're going to sell him on UK, it might come down to convincing him we expect him to be one and done, and that he'll get all the PT he wants.

[teamchemistry09]

Warren says he is cooling on UK because of all the guards. If he is as good as he says why does that matter? If he really thinks he is that good then there would be no competition for his starting spot. RIght?

[MakeItEight]

http://kybasketball.blogspot.com/2007/09/willie-warren-trims-his-list-to-four.html
Apparently he trimmed his list to four schools: Oklahoma, Kansas, Connecticut and Cincinnati.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

Cincinnati :icon_rolleyes:

[KYISSUPREME]

Until he actually signs on the dotted line, you never know with Warren.

[Jazz]

feel sorry for the schools on his list
i got the impression that hes to cocky im not a fan of one and done kids any ways

[Coldstream]

Texas standout guard Willie Warren, who now attends Oak Hill Academy, has narrowed his college list to four schools - Oklahoma, Kansas, Connecticut and Cincinnati. Louisville and Kentucky had both been on the list at the end of the summer.

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/demling/2007/09/basketball-fix.html#comments

[RaleighCat]

Outside of Durant, Wright, and Oden, I don't see why Derrick Jasper couldn't be as good or better than everybody on that list.

But like all speculative arguments, this one is sort of silly because nobody is right or wrong.

I will say this:

We didn't see a tip -- not even a tip -- of Jasper's potential last season. I think he lost confidence midway through and sort of floated through the second half of the season. I watched him in practice in October and the kid was jaw-dropping good.

With a jumpshot -- even just a semblance of one -- he's an all-SEC talent.
But Will, that's the rub on a kid like Jasper. Most of those frosh last year paid HUGE dividends to their teams. Wright/Lawson/Ellington STARTED for the Heels all last year (and they were disapointed to fall in the Elite Eight). Take away Oden/Durant and you still have a list of kids who made bigger impacts than any of our frosh (not just Jasper). UK's last impact frosh was Rondo- one who lived up to the McD's AA Hype and made everyone a believer on the court. Morris came close, but I wouldn't say Morris' freshman year was better than Brandan Wright's (for example).

Gillispie is going to fix this problem in short order. Kentucky is going to recruit- sign- and get impact production from high-profile freshmen. With or without Willie Warren.

(Sorry, didn't realize just how far back this thread went in time. It caught my attention again this morning and I didn't notice the age on some of this info.)

[DCWildcat]

If I were to guess I'd say Oklahoma. I think Connecticut would be a great fit for him though.

[Coldstream]

If I were to guess I'd say Oklahoma. I think Connecticut would be a great fit for him though.

If he ends up there, it is likely that Rotnei might end up there as well. Those guys had somewhat of a falling out with each other.