Wildcat Fan Report Article on OTS

[Coldstream]

We’re taking a temporary break from our boycott of the Patterson/Lucas recruiting saga to bring you new required reading. This time it’s SI’s Luke Winn (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/luke_winn/04/25/patrick.patterson/index.html). Here are a few tidbits from Winn’s piece.He talked openly about the shock of learning of Smith’s departure for Minnesota in late March. “I was out with my friends, and got a call from my mom saying, ‘Did you hear about Tubby? He left Kentucky,’” Patterson said. “About a week later, he called me and my mom and tried to explain everything — he said there was a bunch of stuff going on at Kentucky, that they wanted him to do things that he didn’t want to do, and stuff like that.”
That’s right folks, ‘they’ wanted him to take measures aimed at improving the product on the floor and he didn’t want to. It’s hard to believe anyone would question why it was time for Tubby to leave for icier tundras. It’s even harder to believe that media mavens like Duke Vitale and Dan Patrick would criticize UK fans for having unrealistic expectations and running Tubby out of town, something Patterson’s quote seems to indicate did not happen.
http://www.wildcatfanreport.com/

[BigBlue75]

We’re taking a temporary break from our boycott of the Patterson/Lucas recruiting saga to bring you new required reading. This time it’s SI’s Luke Winn (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/luke_winn/04/25/patrick.patterson/index.html). Here are a few tidbits from Winn’s piece.He talked openly about the shock of learning of Smith’s departure for Minnesota in late March. “I was out with my friends, and got a call from my mom saying, ‘Did you hear about Tubby? He left Kentucky,’” Patterson said. “About a week later, he called me and my mom and tried to explain everything — he said there was a bunch of stuff going on at Kentucky, that they wanted him to do things that he didn’t want to do, and stuff like that.”
That’s right folks, ‘they’ wanted him to take measures aimed at improving the product on the floor and he didn’t want to. It’s hard to believe anyone would question why it was time for Tubby to leave for icier tundras. It’s even harder to believe that media mavens like Duke Vitale and Dan Patrick would criticize UK fans for having unrealistic expectations and running Tubby out of town, something Patterson’s quote seems to indicate did not happen.
http://www.wildcatfanreport.com/


Well, while I supported Tubby as our coach, I've also said several times that his leaving was probably the best and most honorable thing he could have done, since things could have (and looks like would have) gotten protracted and nasty if he had stayed. I don't want to say too much based on one recruit's comment, but if he had indeed reached a place where he wasn't willing to bend and make changes, then it was indeed time for both he and UK to move on.

[blueheretic]

We’re taking a temporary break from our boycott of the Patterson/Lucas recruiting saga to bring you new required reading. This time it’s SI’s Luke Winn (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/luke_winn/04/25/patrick.patterson/index.html). Here are a few tidbits from Winn’s piece.He talked openly about the shock of learning of Smith’s departure for Minnesota in late March. “I was out with my friends, and got a call from my mom saying, ‘Did you hear about Tubby? He left Kentucky,’” Patterson said. “About a week later, he called me and my mom and tried to explain everything — he said there was a bunch of stuff going on at Kentucky, that they wanted him to do things that he didn’t want to do, and stuff like that.”
That’s right folks, ‘they’ wanted him to take measures aimed at improving the product on the floor and he didn’t want to. It’s hard to believe anyone would question why it was time for Tubby to leave for icier tundras. It’s even harder to believe that media mavens like Duke Vitale and Dan Patrick would criticize UK fans for having unrealistic expectations and running Tubby out of town, something Patterson’s quote seems to indicate did not happen.
http://www.wildcatfanreport.com/

Brings to mind a song by The Hives -- I Hate To Say I Told You So.

I know that some of the guys will deny this happened to their grave. Because he was just so classy. lol

I'd like to note that I had stopped posting about Tubby and did not originate this thread. lol

[RP_McMurphy]

Really caused me to lose alot of respect for the former coach. He put employing friends and associates ahead of loyalty to his employer and the fans of the program.

[matt colvin]

This is kinda low, imo. What good does it do for Tubby to tell Patterson that? It only serves to hurt us, and this program. "A bunch of stuff going on at UK?" Like what, trying to get back to the top???

[Will Lavender]

Mitch was trying to get Tubby to fire his assistants, I'd say.

I don't know if this is taking up for Tubby or not, but it's still my opinion that Tubby should NOT have fired his assistants. What was happening was not the fault of those three coaches.

So he left.

Best for all involved.

[RP_McMurphy]

Will, I have to deduct 50 points from your basketball IQ rating for that statement. Tubby was in dire need of help from his assitants and wasn't getting it from the trio of coaches on his bench.

Mitch was trying to get Tubby to fire his assistants, I'd say.

I don't know if this is taking up for Tubby or not, but it's still my opinion that Tubby should NOT have fired his assistants. What was happening was not the fault of those three coaches.

So he left.

Best for all involved.

[poodoo]

Brings to mind a song by The Hives -- I Hate To Say I Told You So.

I know that some of the guys will deny this happened to their grave. Because he was just so classy. lol

I'd like to note that I had stopped posting about Tubby and did not originate this thread. lol
__________________ QUOTE by blueheretic
___________________________________________

Yes, you HAD been doing SO WELL. Geez, Coldstream, why did you have to post these articles! SMILEY FACE

Anyway, I see a lot of speculation and judging going on when none of us know what transpired between Barnhart and Coach Smith--or the exact conversation, or meaning of Coach Smith's words as spoken to Patterson. I don't even know what the "this happened" is.

True, personally, though, I will deny that he was "unclassy"to my grave," as long as nothing proves otherwise. In direct contrast to the statement, I suspect some will deny that Coach Smith was even a classy man "to their graves." lol

As always, though, what matters is what Big Blue 75 was saying. It appears that everything is going work out best for everyone concerned. That is rarely the case in life. I say ENJOY THAT as Cat fans and let someone else worry about the judging of us all!

By the way, I had not heard the song "I HATE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO." Reading the first four words, I immediately think, "Sure." lol

[Will Lavender]

Will, I have to deduct 50 points from your basketball IQ rating for that statement. Tubby was in dire need of help from his assitants and wasn't getting it from the trio of coaches on his bench.

Maybe, but Tubby had won big with that exact group of coaches. Same guys sitting on the bench in '03. Same guys sitting on the bench in '04 and '05. What was different the last two years?

I think it was TUBBY'S drive, not those coaches', that flagged toward the end.

Cutting those coaches loose would have been like throwing them under a bus while Tubby walked away unscathed.

Tubby shouldn't -- and didn't -- do that.

And I'm glad he didn't, because I like Billy G.

[capcat]

I'd like to note that I had stopped posting about Tubby and did not originate this thread. lol
Bravo, Dave. Well done ;)

[POEKLM]

In my opinion this article takes nothing away from Tubby's "classiness". It may show him to be hard headed or stubborn to change but it does not affect his character standing to me. I still respect him and what he did while he was here.

[BigBlue75]

In my opinion this article takes nothing away from Tubby's "classiness". It may show him to be hard headed or stubborn to change but it does not affect his character standing to me. I still respect him and what he did while he was here.

Ditto. My feelings as well.

[Will Lavender]

In my opinion this article takes nothing away from Tubby's "classiness". It may show him to be hard headed or stubborn to change but it does not affect his character standing to me. I still respect him and what he did while he was here.

Absolutely.

[blueheretic]

You are all entitled to your opinions.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

In my opinion this article takes nothing away from Tubby's "classiness". It may show him to be hard headed or stubborn to change but it does not affect his character standing to me. I still respect him and what he did while he was here.

Likewise Marsha...I think the Tubby bashers should find a Gopher board to continue their rants against Coach Smith.

[TrueblueCATfan]

I am with you on this too POEKLM..

[jdeasy]

Some define class as a person that puts playing his son ahead of the good of the University. I'm not one of those.

[Will Lavender]

Some define class as a person that puts playing his son ahead of the good of the University. I'm not one of those.

Saul's senior year was one of my favorite Tubby teams. Good team. Flawed like most of Tubby's teams, but a good team nonethless.

I've always believed -- and still believe -- that If Saul didn't have "Smith" on the back of his jersey, he would have been a fan favorite. Kid played tremendously hard, and really he was more consistent (if not as talented) as some kids who were lauded as solid UK contributors.

[UFWildcat]

Brings to mind a song by The Hives -- I Hate To Say I Told You So.

I know that some of the guys will deny this happened to their grave. Because he was just so classy. lol

I'd like to note that I had stopped posting about Tubby and did not originate this thread. lol

Thats a good song!

[Will Lavender]

Really, the whole "class" argument is pretty silly. For two reasons:

One, I doubt any of us really knows Tubby. I've personally spoken to him for about 30 seconds total. All I know is what the media says, yet the media gets many things wrong.

And second, I still don't know how much class has to do with winning ballgames.

For example: I work with college students. There are some people that I teach with who are very fine teachers and who really push their students. But they are creeps to be around; the word "class" would not apply to them in a million years.

Does the same rule apply for basketball coaches?

[UFWildcat]

Maybe, but Tubby had won big with that exact group of coaches. Same guys sitting on the bench in '03. Same guys sitting on the bench in '04 and '05. What was different the last two years?

I think it was TUBBY'S drive, not those coaches', that flagged toward the end.

Cutting those coaches loose would have been like throwing them under a bus while Tubby walked away unscathed.

Tubby shouldn't -- and didn't -- do that.

And I'm glad he didn't, because I like Billy G.

I agree. Adding assistants was not going to save Coach Smith.

Will and others always say that coaches make about a 20% impact on performance on the court. I don't know if I agree its that low but still...

Assistants would make much less than that.

IMHO, there was no way he could have turned this sinking ship around.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Likewise Marsha...I think the Tubby bashers should find a Gopher board to continue their rants against Coach Smith.

Some define class as a person that puts playing his son ahead of the good of the University. I'm not one of those.

Saul was not the best player.but he had heart and it showed on the floor.....maybe UK could have used a few more like him the last 2 years..a kid playing for Kentucky instead of the name on the back....Tubby Smith was a class act...he respresented the university well

[jdeasy]

Saul was not the best player.but he had heart and it showed on the floor.....maybe UK could have used a few more like him the last 2 years..a kid playing for Kentucky instead of the name on the back....Tubby Smith was a class act...he respresented the university well

In your opinion. Mine is different.

[KYISSUPREME]

This quote was a new one to me. I was kind of disappointed to read this. After the way Tubby threw his players under the bus after the last Vanderbilt loss(saying it must be the players, because his system has always worked in the past), I have lost a lot of respect for the man. He may be a classy guy, I don't know him, but he didn't always show it. Some times, as in divorce, a mutual split is best for all involved. Hopefully, we both will be better off.

[blueheretic]

Likewise Marsha...I think the Tubby bashers should find a Gopher board to continue their rants against Coach Smith.


I just have to ask. Who is "bashing" Smith in this thread? Is the mere mention of Smith now considered a "bash?"

A. Orlando "Tubby" Smith is now and will always be a part of UK History. Therefore, he will be discussed from now until there comes a time that no fan of the program or follower of it's history exists.

B. The man is not above reproach. He was not perfect. I'm told by Christians that there was only one of those who ever tread upon this planet.

People need to get over their hyper-sensitivity concerning this man.

I listed each coach in a thread and was hardest on Sutton and even handed concerning both Smith and Hall. I praised Pitino and Rupp in this thread. The only comments that concerned some were my comments concerning Smith. Of course, it was the usual suspects who replied to that comment.

I was told repeatedly to get over Smith. I think there are many others who need to get over Smith.

There is a girlfriend analogy used often in reference to Pitino. I think it is more appropriate to the Smith Brigade of UK Fans. I've never seen a living person mourned with such passion.

[Caveman Catfan]

They evidently wanted him to get rid of his assistants, as has been rumored and reported. Tubby not wanting to be forced to fire someone who has been loyal to him does not mean that Tubby was wrong or that the administration was wrong to want change. The admins were not bad guys for demanding change and Tubby was not a bad guy for refusing the command.

[Caveman Catfan]

I just have to ask. Who is "bashing" Smith in this thread? Is the mere mention of Smith now considered a "bash?"



I guess their response is akin to your need to call them on it. They have an opinion and it's not your opinion.

Personally, I don't think there is anyone on the Internet that needs to take your advice more than you. Get over Smith.

[Caveman Catfan]

I don't know him

Ah, and there is the key phrase to your post.

[Caveman Catfan]

Mitch was trying to get Tubby to fire his assistants, I'd say.

I don't know if this is taking up for Tubby or not, but it's still my opinion that Tubby should NOT have fired his assistants. What was happening was not the fault of those three coaches.

So he left.

Best for all involved.

I think you are probably right. How that makes Tubby to be less than classy is indefensible. I am also not sure how those who have bad talked him in the past could have lost respect of him by these simple comments. Those who want to see him as something ugly will find ugliness in the most innocuous comments.

[Caveman Catfan]

Some define class as a person that puts playing his son ahead of the good of the University. I'm not one of those.

This makes me interested to learn just how you would define class. I doubt I would agree, especially if you think you are exhibiting class with your comments.

Without Saul's freshman year, there would have been no backup for Turner. No talented PG wanted to come play behind a kid that was dominating college basketball. Saul was the perfect backup. Then, it probably was hard to recruit with Saul on the team. Other coaches probably played the son angle pretty hard. Tubby recruited PGs, but not successfully.

Attributing some ill-will favoritism for his son is not very classy, IMO. But, apparently, our definitions are not the same.

[blueheretic]

I guess their response is akin to your need to call them on it. They have an opinion and it's not your opinion.

Personally, I don't think there is anyone on the Internet that needs to take your advice more than you. Get over Smith.


And there it is. The sagacity that is Caveman Catfan.

[blueheretic]

This makes me interested to learn just how you would define class. I doubt I would agree, especially if you think you are exhibiting class with your comments.



And there it is as well. The attack of the Smith Defense Brigade. It's just the epitome of class isn't it. :eek:

Wow, Coach Gillispie brings in a highly rated recruit in Alex Legion in his first year recruiting. Possibly a couple more. Smith brought in...his son.

[blueheretic]

They evidently wanted him to get rid of his assistants, as has been rumored and reported. Tubby not wanting to be forced to fire someone who has been loyal to him does not mean that Tubby was wrong or that the administration was wrong to want change. The admins were not bad guys for demanding change and Tubby was not a bad guy for refusing the command.

Of course not. When it comes to the Smith Defense Brigade, Smith is never wrong.

[Caveman Catfan]

Of course not. When it comes to the Smith Defense Brigade, Smith is never wrong.

I think Tubby failed as a recruiter, by being inconsistent and being narrowly focused. That hurt his teams, because he had strong classes mixed with weak classes.

BTW, if my ability to be critical and supportive makes me part of the Smith Defense Brigade, the I am glad to be a part of it.

[poodoo]

Maybe, but Tubby had won big with that exact group of coaches. Same guys sitting on the bench in '03. Same guys sitting on the bench in '04 and '05. What was different the last two years?

I think it was TUBBY'S drive, not those coaches', that flagged toward the end.

Cutting those coaches loose would have been like throwing them under a bus while Tubby walked away unscathed.

Tubby shouldn't -- and didn't -- do that.

And I'm glad he didn't, because I like Billy G.
_______________________

You make some valid comments, Will. Too, that's why I don't see anything in Patterson's quote that detracts from our former coach's class or character. Like you, Tubby chose not to cut those coaches loose, which would have most likely been (to Tubby himself) "throwing them under a bus" as he "walked away unscathed." Who knows, but that is what I have always thought.

In regard to Tubby's drive, yes, I think it substantially lessened two years ago. I often posted that Chuck Haye's departure (a player Tubby especially loved, by all indications), Kelenna Azubuike's unexpected departure, and all the issues with Randolph Morris' status and his missed time greatly affected Tubby, including perhaps his relationship with some of the players.

Then, though, he seemed to me to have his ENERGY again at Big Blue Madness. As I previously asked you, do you agree? Too, I think he thought that our season was going to be MOST SUCCESSFUL.

THEN, though, we repeatedly lost those close games, and that ENTHUSIASM and DRIVE went downhill. The day we lost to Vanderbilt in Nashville, which meant four consecutive losses to Vandy AND that we would probably have to play on Thursday in the SEC Tourney, was the day I happen to think Tubby thought he might be leaving. It was in his voice and in his comments, to which someone else referred. That was NOT the same Tubby Smith I had listened to on radio show after radio show. I think he knew he would likely be forced to fire his assistants and that he would not do that.

That's only my theory, of course. I share it with you as I know we BOTH like to analyze. Too, it doesn't really matter, as I see it, for we have a NEW COACH whom I, too, REALLY LIKE. Also, it is that ENTHUSIASM and PASSION and WORK ETHIC (especially in recruiting) that I absolutely LOVE.

[poodoo]

I think Tubby failed as a recruiter, by being inconsistent and being narrowly focused. That hurt his teams, because he had strong classes mixed with weak classes.

BTW, if my ability to be critical and supportive makes me part of the Smith Defense Brigade, the I am glad to be a part of it.

_________________

AMEN to that, Caveman Catfan. I hear you, as I have just responded to a post about my possibly being a part of the "Smith Defense Brigade."

No, actually, I don't want to be anything other than a member of the "UK Basketball Fan Club." It's a fairly large group, I think, and I have never cared for exclusive groups, actually.

However, yes, I will continue to be both critical and supportive, according to how I really feel. Also, I will continue to prefer to discuss our CURRENT coach, who is Billy Clyde Gillispie, who I think will be successful as a recruiter. I will also think that even if he does not sign Patterson or Lucas, as he has obviously been put at a disadvantage in that regard.

[BlueBalls]

Maybe, but Tubby had won big with that exact group of coaches. Same guys sitting on the bench in '03. Same guys sitting on the bench in '04 and '05. What was different the last two years?

I think it was TUBBY'S drive, not those coaches', that flagged toward the end.

Cutting those coaches loose would have been like throwing them under a bus while Tubby walked away unscathed.

Tubby shouldn't -- and didn't -- do that.

And I'm glad he didn't, because I like Billy G.

Will, I have always enjoyed your thoughtful posts......But, this group of assistants was just along for the ride in '03 and '04. They couldn't recruit a hungry dog to a food dish. The last couple of years REALLY brought that home. Plus, they had no idea how to work with big men.......Look what Shyatt did for Florida, instilled toughness and defense. If this group was so great they would be at Minnesota now or at least have jobs with other teams. Rigot and Hanson have looked and looked, can't buy a basketball job. The other coaches know.

[poodoo]

Saul's senior year was one of my favorite Tubby teams. Good team. Flawed like most of Tubby's teams, but a good team nonethless.

I've always believed -- and still believe -- that If Saul didn't have "Smith" on the back of his jersey, he would have been a fan favorite. Kid played tremendously hard, and really he was more consistent (if not as talented) as some kids who were lauded as solid UK contributors.


__________

Well-said. FWIW, I have always felt the same.

Too, we went to an away game during Saul's senior year. We traveled on a bus with other Cat fans. I will never forget some of those fans' disrespectful comments about Saul. It was just unreal.

That night I realized that some fans essentially hated Coach Smith because of Saul's being on the team and getting playing time. Too, yes, Caveman, Coach Smith's recruiting did suffer during that time. I always felt that was because rival recruiters used Saul's being here against us, but, yes, he was needed on that '98 team because we had been left without a backup to Turner. Anyway, that I still see the Saul comments makes me remember that trip, and that's not a happy memory.

A happy memory with Saul was his waving that towel so hard when he would stand and cheer from the bench. No, I don't mean that I was happy to see him on the bench, but I surely loved his enthusiasm and support for the TEAM.

No, I certainly do not think Coach Smith's playing his son was a sign of his not having class. As someone said, though, we WCN members obviously have differing opinions.

[jdeasy]

Saul's senior year was one of my favorite Tubby teams. Good team. Flawed like most of Tubby's teams, but a good team nonethless.

I've always believed -- and still believe -- that If Saul didn't have "Smith" on the back of his jersey, he would have been a fan favorite. Kid played tremendously hard, and really he was more consistent (if not as talented) as some kids who were lauded as solid UK contributors.


This is not about Saul. Saul played his heart out every game. It was his father that put him in an untenable position.

But, had he not had "Smith" on the back of his jersey, he would not have been a fan favorite as he would never have been recruited to UK. He was here solely because of his father. He started here solely because of his father. He kept started with a much more talented player sitting on the bench, Hawkins, solely because of his father.

The father gets all the blame here.

[jdeasy]

__________

Well-said. FWIW, I have always felt the same.

Too, we went to an away game during Saul's senior year. We traveled on a bus with other Cat fans. I will never forget some of those fans' disrespectful comments about Saul. It was just unreal.

That night I realized that some fans essentially hated Coach Smith because of Saul's being on the team and getting playing time. Too, yes, Caveman, Coach Smith's recruiting did suffer during that time. I always felt that was because rival recruiters used Saul's being here against us, but, yes, he was needed on that '98 team because we had been left without a backup to Turner. Anyway, that I still see the Saul comments makes me remember that trip, and that's not a happy memory.

A happy memory with Saul was his waving that towel so hard when he would stand and cheer from the bench. No, I don't mean that I was happy to see him on the bench, but I surely loved his enthusiasm and support for the TEAM.

No, I certainly do not think Coach Smith's playing his son was a sign of his not having class. As someone said, though, we WCN members obviously have differing opinions.


A person of class does not put playing his son ahead of the good of the University. A classy person does not lie about another player's illness in order to keep playing his son.

There are many, many more examples of our former coach's lack of class, but, those two just jump out there.

[poodoo]

A person of class does not put playing his son ahead of the good of the University. A classy person does not lie about another player's illness in order to keep playing his son.

There are many, many more examples of our former coach's lack of class, but, those two just jump out there. QUOTE by jdeasy
___________

I've seen your posts in this regard for many years, beginning at the old site. We must simply agree to disagree respectfully. We obviously have differing opinons.

In regard to Hawkins' illness, as I posted there, I could see and understand Hawkins' asthma as I had a son, also a basketball player, who suffered from the same condition. So I would watch Cliff and notice when he was having problems. I still remember how fans booed Saul loudly in Rupp one game when he had replaced Hawkins in the lineup. Unknown to most UK fans, Cliff had made the signal that he needed to come out of the game.

So I understand that you think Coach Smith "lied" about Hawkins' condition and has shown a lack of class many other times. My opinion will not change, though, as I have repeatedly heard everyone who knows Smith say that he is one of the finest human beings anyone could ever know, that he is a great coach and an even greater person.

No, I'm not saying anything about his coaching. I am merely saying that those folks who actually know the man think that he has PURE CLASS. Mr. Wildcat, Mr. Keightley, even said that no finer human being has ever walked the face of this earth (and I directly quoted that when he said it, once again, when Coach Smith left, the last time I began any thread about Coach Smith). Someone mentioned that Jesus Christ was certainly finer, and I would certainly agree with that. Yet, the point is simply made that most (and everyone who actually knows the man, to my knowledge) do not doubt Coach Smith's class. Again, naturally, it is still only everyone's OPINION, one way or the other. None of us here will be the One to judge the man. GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[TrueblueCATfan]

A person of class does not put playing his son ahead of the good of the University. A classy person does not lie about another player's illness in order to keep playing his son.

There are many, many more examples of our former coach's lack of class, but, those two just jump out there.

I do not ever recall Tubby lying about an illness in order to play his son.. if you are talking about Hawkins he had asthma......as far as Tubby having class....he did not cheat or was not an embarrassment to the university....he conducted his self with class when ever he spoke.....unlike some coaches I know right here in the city I live in...his wife Donna was a class act..at every game cheering her husband on..wore BLUE no matter what....the Smiths were and are class people......now lets move on..we have a new coach

[TrueblueCATfan]

A person of class does not put playing his son ahead of the good of the University. A classy person does not lie about another player's illness in order to keep playing his son.

There are many, many more examples of our former coach's lack of class, but, those two just jump out there. QUOTE by jdeasy
___________

I've seen your posts in this regard for many years, beginning at the old site. We must simply agree to disagree respectfully. We obviously have differing opinons.

In regard to Hawkins' illness, as I posted there, I could see and understand Hawkins' asthma as I had a son, also a basketball player, who suffered from the same condition. So I would watch Cliff and notice when he was having problems. I still remember how fans booed Saul loudly in Rupp one game when he had replaced Hawkins in the lineup. Unknown to most UK fans, Cliff had made the signal that he needed to come out of the game.

So I understand that you think Coach Smith "lied" about Hawkins' condition and has shown a lack of class many other times. My opinion will not change, though, as I have repeatedly heard everyone who knows Smith say that he is one of the finest human beings anyone could ever know, that he is a great coach and an even greater person.

No, I'm not saying anything about his coaching. I am merely saying that those folks who actually know the man think that he has PURE CLASS. Mr. Wildcat, Mr. Keightley, even said that no finer human being has ever walked the face of this earth (and I directly quoted that when he said it, once again, when Coach Smith left, the last time I began any thread about Coach Smith). Someone mentioned that Jesus Christ was certainly finer, and I would certainly agree with that. Yet, the point is simply made that most (and everyone who actually knows the man, to my knowledge) do not doubt Coach Smith's class. Again, naturally, it is still only everyone's OPINION, one way or the other. None of us here will be the One to judge the man. GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

I agree too Poodoo.....I heard MR Wildcat say all the time that Tubby Smith is the finest man you will ever meet...My husband had asthma growing up and it prevented him from playing any sports while in high school..I thank god neither one of my girls inheirted it from him since they both have played sports since they were young
I agree too about Hawkins..he always motioned to Tubby when he was ready to come out.....I am happy witht he new coach..GO CATS..GO BILLY G

[Caveman Catfan]

Is someone here implying that Mr. Kentucky is a liar????

[Terry L. Wildcat]

I just have to ask. Who is "bashing" Smith in this thread? Is the mere mention of Smith now considered a "bash?"

A. Orlando "Tubby" Smith is now and will always be a part of UK History. Therefore, he will be discussed from now until there comes a time that no fan of the program or follower of it's history exists.

B. The man is not above reproach. He was not perfect. I'm told by Christians that there was only one of those who ever tread upon this planet.

People need to get over their hyper-sensitivity concerning this man.

I listed each coach in a thread and was hardest on Sutton and even handed concerning both Smith and Hall. I praised Pitino and Rupp in this thread. The only comments that concerned some were my comments concerning Smith. Of course, it was the usual suspects who replied to that comment.

I was told repeatedly to get over Smith. I think there are many others who need to get over Smith.

There is a girlfriend analogy used often in reference to Pitino. I think it is more appropriate to the Smith Brigade of UK Fans. I've never seen a living person mourned with such passion.

let's move on

[katfever]

I typed a post about 2 weeks before Smith left that imo there was a good chance he would not hire new asst coaches if pushed to do so- and then leave. This quote shows something similar to that happened. I do not dispute Smith or his wife were classy- but what it shows me is he was not willing to make the necessary changes at UK to get the job done. Billy G's first two weeks also shows Smith and his staff's recruiting efforts were pathetic and lacking in motivation- leading to the ultimate demise of his tenure here.

[Ky Man]

Saul's senior year was one of my favorite Tubby teams. Good team. Flawed like most of Tubby's teams, but a good team nonethless.

I've always believed -- and still believe -- that If Saul didn't have "Smith" on the back of his jersey, he would have been a fan favorite. Kid played tremendously hard, and really he was more consistent (if not as talented) as some kids who were lauded as solid UK contributors.

I agree with you Will, that kid would have run thru a brick wall for the good of the team. I have never understood...[unless if was just BECAUSE he was Tubby son], why some fans did and still so give Saul a hard time becaude he was not the most talented kid around, but not many had a bigger heart IMO...

[TrueblueCATfan]

I agree with you Will, that kid would have run thru a brick wall for the good of the team. I have never understood...[unless if was just BECAUSE he was Tubby son], why some fans did and still so give Saul a hard time becaude he was not the most talented kid around, but not many had a bigger heart IMO...

wow..awesome post

[katfever]

I think most level headed UK fans had nothing against Saul- it was Smith putting him on the team. Same as Perry, Thomas etc.- you can not blame the kid but the coach's decision to give him a scholarship. Saul had no business being on the UK squad as a starting point guard. But again, this is old news- time to move on to more exciting times.

[Will Lavender]

I thought about starting a new thread for this, but Dennis's post is good advice so I'll just post it here.

Here's where I'm coming from. Seriously.

I would support the coach at UK pretty much regardless. I criticized Tubby and thought he had worn out his welcome, but I still supported him in the physical sense of the word, as I was down in Atlanta watching during his last days. I still support him; I still like him and feel he didn't destroy the program or antyhing like that, as many want to argue.

I will support Gillispie. I support the coach because he's the coach of UK. Some said about me and others that we were just Tubby supporters during the Tubby years, that we would leave when Tubby left.

Well here I am, as excited as ever about UK basketball.

Here we ALL are as far as I can tell.

What's that tell you?

It tells me that some of us like the coach of this team because he's the coach of this team. We are homers. Yes, I admit it. I'm a homer.

And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Some want to criticize and complain and "cut." Fine. But that's not my style. I have no truck with complaining about Tubby after he's gone. It's like talking bad about a relative after the relative is dead. It's called bad form.

There. My last word in this thread.

[Wildcatcrazy11]

Heretic... you do very well in separating the members on this site with your coach smith "groups"...

Can't we all just unite around a new era here people? The bad times are over.

[DCWildcat]

They evidently wanted him to get rid of his assistants, as has been rumored and reported. Tubby not wanting to be forced to fire someone who has been loyal to him does not mean that Tubby was wrong or that the administration was wrong to want change. The admins were not bad guys for demanding change and Tubby was not a bad guy for refusing the command.

Sums up my feelings on the matter.

[KYISSUPREME]

Ah, and there is the key phrase to your post.

Yep. That's why I put that in there. My aren't you the clever one for catching it. You get a cookie.

[blueheretic]

It's time for everyone to let Tubby go. His detractors and his Defense Squad as well.

[jdeasy]

I do not ever recall Tubby lying about an illness in order to play his son.. if you are talking about Hawkins he had asthma......as far as Tubby having class....he did not cheat or was not an embarrassment to the university....he conducted his self with class when ever he spoke.....unlike some coaches I know right here in the city I live in...his wife Donna was a class act..at every game cheering her husband on..wore BLUE no matter what....the Smiths were and are class people......now lets move on..we have a new coach


Yes, Hawkins had asthma. It did not keep him from playing 30 mins a game at Oak Hill before he got here. Hawkins himself said many times that the asthma did not affect his play.

And, miraculously, as soon as as Saul graduated, the asthma was no longer a problem at UK.

Stevie Wonder can see what went on there.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Yes, Hawkins had asthma. It did not keep him from playing 30 mins a game at Oak Hill before he got here. Hawkins himself said many times that the asthma did not affect his play.

And, miraculously, as soon as as Saul graduated, the asthma was no longer a problem at UK.

Stevie Wonder can see what went on there.

your opinion.....but there was NO lie about an illness..and care to explain why he always motioned to come out of the game....

[Caveman Catfan]

Yep. That's why I put that in there. My aren't you the clever one for catching it. You get a cookie.


Save it and give it to blueheretic. If he really means what he posts, he can have the cookie.

And, "clever" is an understatement. But, you tried.

[Caveman Catfan]

Yes, Hawkins had asthma. It did not keep him from playing 30 mins a game at Oak Hill before he got here. Hawkins himself said many times that the asthma did not affect his play.


Let's take another poll: Does anyone who knows college basketball think playing in an Oak Hill game against overmatched teams for 30 minutes compares to playing in a college game for 30 minutes?

[Coldstream]

Yes, Hawkins had asthma. It did not keep him from playing 30 mins a game at Oak Hill before he got here. Hawkins himself said many times that the asthma did not affect his play.

And, miraculously, as soon as as Saul graduated, the asthma was no longer a problem at UK.

Stevie Wonder can see what went on there.

When Tubby motioned for Saul to return to the Vanderbilt game in place of freshman Cliff Hawkins, who had played well as a sub, the fans had a hissy fit. What they didn't see was Hawkins signal to the bench that his asthma was acting up. As the boos subsided, Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings turned to Saul before an inbounds play and said, "I hope one day you have a chance to tell these people to kiss your butt. You deserve better than this."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20010304/ai_n13900994

What you fail to understand is that Hawkins was a freshman trying to adjust to the speed of the college game. Saul was a senior as well. Also, I remember distinctively that Hawkins talked about improving his conditioning during the summer months to overcome is asthma problem.

[cnice11]

Mitch was trying to get Tubby to fire his assistants, I'd say.

I don't know if this is taking up for Tubby or not, but it's still my opinion that Tubby should NOT have fired his assistants. What was happening was not the fault of those three coaches.

So he left.

Best for all involved.
The only assistant from Tubbys staff that I wouldve kept is Shawn Finney. I heard when Tubby was going good early on at KY Shawn Finney was the recruiter. He came back and look what an awesome freshman class we had last year. But, Billy G seems to be better

[TrueblueCATfan]

When Tubby motioned for Saul to return to the Vanderbilt game in place of freshman Cliff Hawkins, who had played well as a sub, the fans had a hissy fit. What they didn't see was Hawkins signal to the bench that his asthma was acting up. As the boos subsided, Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings turned to Saul before an inbounds play and said, "I hope one day you have a chance to tell these people to kiss your butt. You deserve better than this."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20010304/ai_n13900994

What you fail to understand is that Hawkins was a freshman trying to adjust to the speed of the college game. Saul was a senior as well. Also, I remember distinctively that Hawkins talked about improving his conditioning during the summer months to overcome is asthma problem.

I remember that so well.....I thought how can our own fans boo one of their own....I have always had a hard time figuring out some UK fans ans I probably never will...but Saul had too much class to ever do what Coach Stallings said he should do

[poodoo]

When Tubby motioned for Saul to return to the Vanderbilt game in place of freshman Cliff Hawkins, who had played well as a sub, the fans had a hissy fit. What they didn't see was Hawkins signal to the bench that his asthma was acting up. As the boos subsided, Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings turned to Saul before an inbounds play and said, "I hope one day you have a chance to tell these people to kiss your butt. You deserve better than this."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20010304/ai_n13900994

What you fail to understand is that Hawkins was a freshman trying to adjust to the speed of the college game. Saul was a senior as well. Also, I remember distinctively that Hawkins talked about improving his conditioning during the summer months to overcome is asthma problem.

Exactly, Coldstream. FWIW, I remember all that as well.

[poodoo]

It's time for everyone to let Tubby go. His detractors and his Defense Squad as well.

I believe with all my heart that most folks did "let Tubby go" from the moment of the new hire. I think most everyone, and certainly including myself and others who had supported our former coach, immediately EMBRACED the new coach, which means they had "let Tubby go." Too, I think that's the case for BOTH "groups" (although I have personally always insisted on looking at us all as one group, UK basketball fans and still detest any labeling of UK fans, including that older label of "Tubby Haters"). The poster "katfever," by the way, is a perfect example of someone who had wanted Tubby gone and did exactly that, and, still again, kudos to him for that.

This thread, though, is a PERFECT example of when the supposed "Defense Squad" is going to respond. Attacks on the former coach's character are naturally going to be defended. Personally, I'm actually going to respond to any attacks on most anyone's character or true fanship or whatever (and it's something I do for our basketball players and for fellow posters and will also continue to do if Tubby's character is FIRST attacked by a poster).

Anyway, I LOVE and applaud the idea of EVERYONE's "letting Tubby go," blueheretic. I support that idea with all my heart. For it to work, though, NEITHER "group" can bring up Tubby's name with derision or disrespect OR adulation.

By the way, as I see it, several WCN members have made most legitimate negative comments about our former coach and have made it most clear that they do NOT mean it as a "dig" or further "bashing," and there is no anti-Tubby obsession revealed. In other words, those folks have seemingly "let Tubby go" and are merely posting something that is related to the topic. Actually, I have expressed agreement on such valid points that have been made and are RELATED to a particular thread (especially in regard to the former coach's recruiting efforts), points that have been made with no blatant disrespect. Blatant, intentional disrespect, though, is likely going to get a reaction from folks who believe more in showing the UK coach, WHOEVER he is, RESPECT. No, I don't see that the former coach's name must be "taboo." Instead, it's about truly "letting him go" or "not letting him go."

Regardless, I LOVE this post and VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT, absolutely. In fact, I go farther and vote that we basically FORGET THE PAST here at WCN. Who cares who had been a detractor, who had wanted Tubby fired, or who had not wanted Tubby fired! I don't care. I have never cared. In fact, I respect folks who had wanted the former coach to leave as much as I respect folks who had felt that Coach Smith deserved another year (and the main thing for ALL to remember here is that Coach Smith LEFT ON HIS OWN, which was probably the BEST POSSIBLE HAPPENING FOR ALL INVOLVED). Further, I THINK most others here likewise don't care and are NOT worried about any supposed "groups." I think most truly want merely to MOVE ON and ENJOY SUPPORTING the new coach. I VOTE for doing that, surely most obviously from all my posts in that regard.

Again, GREAT post. Let's ALL do it! GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[Caveman Catfan]

When Tubby motioned for Saul to return to the Vanderbilt game in place of freshman Cliff Hawkins, who had played well as a sub, the fans had a hissy fit. What they didn't see was Hawkins signal to the bench that his asthma was acting up. As the boos subsided, Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings turned to Saul before an inbounds play and said, "I hope one day you have a chance to tell these people to kiss your butt. You deserve better than this."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20010304/ai_n13900994

What you fail to understand is that Hawkins was a freshman trying to adjust to the speed of the college game. Saul was a senior as well. Also, I remember distinctively that Hawkins talked about improving his conditioning during the summer months to overcome is asthma problem.

I forgot about Stallings comment.

Tubby had a tendency to give great deference to all of his seniors, not just Saul. He played some seniors who were not his son much more than some fans would have liked. It was one of his things.

Like Pitino, Sutton, Knight and others, a coach should be able to hire his son to coach on his staff. Saul would have never been accepted back by UK fans under Tubby, even though he is an alum and a former player. It's one of the negatives that goes with all the positives of being a UK fan, IMO.

[bluegrassking]

I forgot about Stallings comment.

Tubby had a tendency to give great deference to all of his seniors, not just Saul. He played some seniors who were not his son much more than some fans would have liked. It was one of his things.

Like Pitino, Sutton, Knight and others, a coach should be able to hire his son to coach on his staff. Saul would have never been accepted back by UK fans under Tubby, even though he is an alum and a former player. It's one of the negatives that goes with all the positives of being a UK fan, IMO.

To be fair, Sean Sutton didn't go over well here either.

I'm also thinking that if you're on the hotseat yourself that it's not the right time to bring in your son.

Saul had a huge perception of purely being here due to his father being the coach and moreso he got the PT for that reason, it would not be sensable to bring him in as a rookie coach at UK after having similar issues as a player. If Saul had never played here and Tubby was seen more positively, I'm certain he or especially GG would have been pretty well accepted.

I think Saul was treated unfairly because he hustled and wasn't as bad as some make out. He would be much more favorably viewed had he been the backup at both guard spots but OTS either by failure or plan ended up having to be more of a factor than his talent would dicatate.
I'll also say it's weird how the asthma was less of a factor for Cliff before he came and after Saul graduated but that's why we have the word coincidence. I hope the word applies but it's not like insane to have some question about that.

[Caveman Catfan]

To be fair, Sean Sutton didn't go over well here either.

No doubt. Many UK fans acting like pigs about Sean, as well.

[Caveman Catfan]

I'm also thinking that if you're on the hotseat yourself that it's not the right time to bring in your son.


When some fans were continuously slamming Saul, the player, Tubby was not on a hot seat. Hot seat or not, there are fans that would have crucified Tubby and Saul had Tubby hired Saul onto his staff.