Spot check on two New Head coaches!

[UKhoov]

Before you click the link below, let me just say this isnt a stab at anyone.

Which I believe some people regardless of whether they have read the above statement or not, will think this is a jab at our former coach. But I read this article and was just amazed at the difference in what has happened since the start of both BCG and OTS new coaching jobs.

I am interested at what others think about this and although Im sure at some point it will,I hope this wont pan out into an OTS debate thread.

(hopefully the link works, I havent gotten used to the new forums yet)

http://www.kentuckyink.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Itemid=1















http://www.kentuckyink.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Itemid=1

[charms]

I agree it is not a stab, it is the truth! People will have to understand facts are facts. I wish OTS and Minnesota all the luck in the world.

[crazzedcats22]

I think his last sentence sums it up perfectly. I liked Tubby, thought he was a GOOD coach, and a fantastic human being but "It simply was the fact that Tubby was never the right fit for Kentucky."

[matt colvin]

Pretty good article. But, as you said, I'll be surprised if this thread remains a mature, thought provoking one.

[wildcat74]

I see nothing wrong with the article. Lots of facts in there. Smiths recruiting woes are well documented so no excitement on that end. What has been exciting is seeing what coach gillispie has done in such a short time, and to see us still in the hunt for pp.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

Pretty good article. But, as you said, I'll be surprised if this thread remains a mature, thought provoking one.

My thoughts exactly...I've got my :rolleyes: ready to go for when it happens.

[Caveman Catfan]

There are college, NBA, and high school coaches and many analysts from all over the country that repeatedly state that Tubby is one of the best coaches in the game. Personally, I think in 10 years at UK, he proved that to be true. Tubby's shortcomings at UK had nothing to do with his coaching ability, it had more to do with a poor recruiting strategy and with a failure to promote what he had to offer recruits.

I trust that Gillispie is also one of the finest in the country. The difference, I think and hope will be in the recruiting. I think Gillispie's strategy, hands on approach, and relentlessness are needed today, even at a powerhouse like UK.

[Caveman Catfan]

So true. I mean, players like Alex Legion, Jai Lucas, Patrick Patterson and Michael Sanchez simply aren't available at this time of the year. Plus, not signing another player in this class could be of great benefit.

Disregarding the sarcasm, the idea that Patterson and Lucas were going to wait this long to go to Minnesota, regardless of the coach is ridiculous. A kid from Michigan does not de-commit to the Wolverines to play for the Gophers. If you have lived in Big Ten country, you know that to be true.

Gillispie at A&M focused his attention on Texas kids, because he knew that Texas kids might consider a very good coach at A&M. Gillispie in Minnesota would still be a tireless worker, but would be a different recruiter.


Instead of keeping the assistants he fought for tooth and nail while at Kentucky, Tubby decided to start anew. Because of that, a complete revamp has taken place.

Tubby has taken abuse for remaining loyal to his staff at UK, but not taking them to Minn. It's a baseless criticism. Tubby knows that his staff was not solely responsible for the shortcomings of the past two seasons. Just because he refused to place sole blame on them at UK, does not mean that once he leaves his position that he must take them with him.

And, this comment assumes that the rumors about what the administration demanded of Tubby was that he fire assistants. It could have been more than that. I have yet to see any confirmation of that rumor that is taken now as fact.

As for Saul, no one has any idea what kind of recruiter he may be. He could be one helluva recruiter.


Even Draymond Green, a 2008 recruit that had already pledged his allegiance to Tubby and Kentucky said thanks but no thanks to a Minnesota offer even though Tubby is considering his high school head coach to be his director of basketball operations (which....this seems like a strange hire, to take a high school coach and make him DIRECTOR of basketball operations for a high Division 1 school even though he's never even coached at the NAIA level).

Clearly, a smarter conclusion about Green is not that Tubby failed, but that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN recruiting to UK than to UMinn. Fact, Tubby had a commitment from Green. So, it was not Tubby that forced Green to spurn UMinn. It was the idea of playing for the Gophers.

Finally, who is Jared Bonshire? I tried to find a bio to discern whether this is just a fan's perspective or if the guy actually has some credentials that would lead someone to believe he has some special insight.

I understand why those who agree will run to this opinion piece as somehow definitive, but I can find no reason to believe it is anything but a post on this board.

Kind of like the one that I just wrote.

[UKfaninCO]

I have nothing bad to say about Tubby. I thought the article wrapped it up pretty succinctly. I liked Tubby and thought he was a fine person and represented the University well. I thought he was a darned good in-game coach when he was on his game. I was disappointed in his recruiting methods and his organizational approach. I think we got a fine coach in Billy Clyde and am looking forward to the future with him at the helm.

[Caveman Catfan]

I think we got a fine coach in Billy Clyde and am looking forward to the future with him at the helm.

Most definitely!

[lribookend]

Tubby has taken abuse for remaining loyal to his staff at UK, but not taking them to Minn. It's a baseless criticism. Tubby knows that his staff was not solely responsible for the shortcomings of the past two seasons. Just because he refused to place sole blame on them at UK, does not mean that once he leaves his position that he must take them with him.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have to disagree. I think it is the exception, rather than the rule, to ditch your entire assistant coaching staff when you take a different head coaching position. If they were good enough to be assistant coaches at the University of Kentucky, why are they suddenly not good enough to be assistant coaches at Minn??? Either he was too loyal to them while he was at UK, or he is not loyal enough now that he has changed jobs. Which is it???

[poodoo]

I have nothing bad to say about Tubby. I thought the article wrapped it up pretty succinctly. I liked Tubby and thought he was a fine person and represented the University well. I thought he was a darned good in-game coach when he was on his game. I was disappointed in his recruiting methods and his organizational approach. I think we got a fine coach in Billy Clyde and am looking forward to the future with him at the helm.

TWO THUMBS UP, UKfaninCO, especially the last statement (and no additional comment!).

[Cant Get Right]

The difference in the two coaches ability to sell the program are like night and day. The future's so bright, I've got to wear shades. :cool:

[Caveman Catfan]

I have to disagree. I think it is the exception, rather than the rule, to ditch your entire assistant coaching staff when you take a different head coaching position. If they were good enough to be assistant coaches at the University of Kentucky, why are they suddenly not good enough to be assistant coaches at Minn??? Either he was too loyal to them while he was at UK, or he is not loyal enough now that he has changed jobs. Which is it???

First, your conjecture or mine is irrelevant on this issue. All we can do is speculate.

But, let's offer one possibility. We know that Tubby wanted to take Saul to his staff at UMinn, something he could never have done at UK (I think we can agree on that). Perhaps, and this speculation is just as valid as your speculaiton, he did not want to take all of his staff BUT one, the position he gave to Saul, because he thought it would stigmatize the one who was not taken.

Another equally viable reason: His staff saw what heat he took here and respected his loyalty and told him NOT to take any of them to UMinn.

Or, perhaps he really wanted to work with Ron Jirsa again. Think that would have gone over with the UK faithful that wanted Tubby's head? No.

One more: If he was going to retain his job at UK, perhaps, as suggested before, he did not think it was right for one or some of his staff to take the hit, while he survived.

There are a number of reasons that have nothing to do with the alternatives you suggest must have been at play.

[Caveman Catfan]

I think it is the exception, rather than the rule, to ditch your entire assistant coaching staff when you take a different head coaching position.

Also, I don't agree with that premise.

[phoenix]

Sure glad nobody wanted to take a stab at anyone or restart the Tubby debate, LOL...

I would say this article is comparing apples and oranges though.

MN is not KY when it comes to these particular recruits, both in prominence and geography.

I would not have discounted Tubby's ability to grab a player like Legion, I am thinking he is the type of kid that would have liked Tubby, and he was a front runner for Patterson and Lucas, when at KY.

You guys ever been to MN in January?

[bluecat406]

Great article. I was always a Tubby supporter, but I have to agree with everything said in the article.

[UderricKY]

Sure glad nobody wanted to take a stab at anyone or restart the Tubby debate, LOL...

I would say this article is comparing apples and oranges though.

MN is not KY when it comes to these particular recruits, both in prominence and geography.

I would not have discounted Tubby's ability to grab a player like Legion, I am thinking he is the type of kid that would have liked Tubby, and he was a front runner for Patterson and Lucas, when at KY.

You guys ever been to MN in January?

Yes, he was a front runner for Jai and Pat...but he still had his eggs in one basket again. Chances are they would have committed elsewhere and then we were left with a class that would have been worse than the one that just graduated.

Tubby supporters will make excuses for this article...

People who felt Tubby's time was up...will agree...its the same cycle with this discussion.

OTS made the smart move..and we now have the most motivated individual..and quite possibly the best fit in the history of the program..(based on work-ethic.)

[Will Lavender]

I have nothing bad to say about Tubby. I thought the article wrapped it up pretty succinctly. I liked Tubby and thought he was a fine person and represented the University well. I thought he was a darned good in-game coach when he was on his game. I was disappointed in his recruiting methods and his organizational approach. I think we got a fine coach in Billy Clyde and am looking forward to the future with him at the helm.

Well-said.

[Caveman Catfan]

Tubby supporters will make excuses for this article...


Let's not be confused. This is not an article. It is an opinion piece. From what I can tell, the author has no better credentials than anyone who posts here. And, it is only his opinion, mainly supported by conjecture.

Those who share the opinion, seem to like the piece.

[phoenix]

[QUOTE=UderricKY;271701]Yes, he was a front runner for Jai and Pat...but he still had his eggs in one basket again. Chances are they would have committed elsewhere and then we were left with a class that would have been worse than the one that just graduated.

Tubby supporters will make excuses for this article...

[/ QUOTE]

Bull. Excuses don't need to be made for a slanted internet piece. You guys seem obsessed with the need to continue to attack Tubby, obviously, as this article writer, to the point of using exaggerations, misstruths and outright lies to make your attacks. I don't see the people defending Tubby's record or his work at UK doing any of those things. Ever wonder why that is?

As for Tubby supporters, you act like they are some special group that still want him back. I don't think ANY of us particularly worry about Tubby at this point in time. He moved on in a classy way. He did not "scurry" any more than any other coach moving from job to job. Tubby deserves fair play. He doesn't deserve the pack of carrion feeders still posting ugly things on this and other forums. He's gone. The continued attacks are starting to amaze me. Not the exaggerations, misstruths and outright lies, they were being slung around long ago. But the continued venom certainly is amazing.

You DO NOT KNOW that Tubby would not have gotten PP, or JL. You make that supposition though to denigrate him. Typical tactic we see here.

You also make a derisive comment on new recruits which shouldn't even be on this board, stating if Tubby doesn't get those guys, our incoming class would be worse than Woo, Perry and Thomas. Uncalled for and bashes both the outgoing seniors, and bashes two new freshman that haven't even been on the court yet, and who might do great things before they leave KY.

Why do you guys feel the need to continually do this kind of stuff? It's uncalled for and it has gone on to the point where it is getting sickening. Why do we have fans that feel the need to continue to do this? Do we have a rotten inner core here at KY? I don't know, but I find it perplexing.

Get over the past, and my hopes are that G is the best dang thing since sliced bread and canned peaches! Forward(in fact FORWARDS WOULD BE EVEN BETTER)!

[RaleighCat]

There are college, NBA, and high school coaches and many analysts from all over the country that repeatedly state that Tubby is one of the best coaches in the game. Personally, I think in 10 years at UK, he proved that to be true. Tubby's shortcomings at UK had nothing to do with his coaching ability, it had more to do with a poor recruiting strategy and with a failure to promote what he had to offer recruits.

Yet these responsibilities are a key component to being a coach in today's environment. You can't just be a clipboard genius, or just a dynamite recruiter. You must have the whole package to thrive at a program like UK, UNC, Dook, UCLA, IU, KS, etc. etc.

I'll also argue that Tubby slipped in the X 'n O department the past couple of years. The infamous Sheray Thomas play at Baton Rouge. Leaving Sparks on the bench so long in the 2nd half against UT. Chuck Hayes on the bench against Michigan State when we needed one extra rebound. Tubby was fearless with his lineup gambles, but that faded when his talent eroded. The same coach who pulled every possible string in that comeback at Freedom Hall a couple years ago had little to work with in the end. Self-inflicted wounds truly.

Finally, as Phoenix correctly points out, recruiting at MN and UK are completely different animals. Yet this exercise only points out how little milage Tubby was getting from the Kentucky-brand by the end of his tenure. It's one thing to own a Ferrari, yet another only to use it to pick up mail at the end of your driveway. Tubby Smith seemed to tire of being the coach at Kentucky. It takes a ton of energy and focus to fully realize the potential of this job. By the end I feel Tubby Smith didn't want to drive that Ferrari any more, so he used the Volvo wagon for his errands.

[phoenix]

I'll also argue that Tubby slipped in the X 'n O department the past couple of years. The infamous Sheray Thomas play at Baton Rouge. Leaving Sparks on the bench so long in the 2nd half against UT. Chuck Hayes on the bench against Michigan State when we needed one extra rebound. Tubby was fearless with his lineup gambles, but that faded when his talent eroded. The same coach who pulled every possible string in that comeback at Freedom Hall a couple years ago had little to work with in the end. Self-inflicted wounds truly.

.

Don't have any big qualms about the unquoted parts of your post but though you point out a couple or three instances where one might scratch their head, I don't really know that he slipped in the x's and o's at all. Speculation I think. Your points are not definitive proof nor in any way a solid case. I also think back in recent history to Carrier in against UL during the comeback, the many regroupings and comebacks in recent history. The ability of his teams to stick with teams and beat teams that were more athletic(repeatedly). Most recently the first half against FL this season, which was a definitive defensive attack, and well concieved even if we didn't have the bodies to carry it through the game. His recruiting recently did not yield the high efficiency athlete to finish at crucial junctures in the game and though he had a good one coming up in Meeks, Meeks wasn't ready to finish this season in some of his opportunities. He will later in his career. X's and O's look alot better with MC's and AA's on the floor.

But WTH, Tubbys at MN. Lets see what G's x's and o's look like...

[Katfan74]

Liked that article. Facts are there in black and whte. I've always said that Tubby could coach, he proved that in 98, but his recruiting left something to be desired.

[blueheretic]

The truth is the truth. No matter how much you attempt to deny it or who says it. I don't need God or a commentator with "credentials" to tell me that something is a truth. I can see it with my own eyes.

I find this thread to be humourous in it's predictability. Consistent blind loyalty. But the Big Blue malaise is over now. Even as some long for and remain loyal to it's architect than to the University of Kentucky itself. If I never see another article about that man again, I will be happy. It seems as if the very people who wish not to discuss him are the ones who can't stop posting about him.

[poodoo]

Let's not be confused. This is not an article. It is an opinion piece. From what I can tell, the author has no better credentials than anyone who posts here. And, it is only his opinion, mainly supported by conjecture.

Those who share the opinion, seem to like the piece.

Exactly, Caveman, in regard to the piece's merely being an "opinion" piece. Too, since this particular thread was already at the TOP of the basketball forum, I will post here and note that this thread is, unfortunately, starting to seem like still another Tubby debate to me. Too, yes, both sides of the debate are merely OPINIONS.

Speaking of opinion pieces and our posters here, I recommend that folks who have not yet read DenCat's thread do so now. There are folks posting from both sides of the original Tubby debate there (based on when I read it yesterday). Personally, I LOVED DenCat's post, and it seemed the same for a lot of WCN folks from both sides of those Tubby debates. Anyway, the thread is about supporting our CURRENT COACH and looking forward to the FUTURE--and essentially forgetting the PAST. GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[poodoo]

Liked that article. Facts are there in black and whte. I've always said that Tubby could coach, he proved that in 98, but his recruiting left something to be desired.

By the way, I just wanted to share that this post doesn't sound to me like a Tubby debate or something that would potentially divide our fans into groups again. Instead, it's only a comment with which most everyone would agree, at least to an extent, and a comment most specifically related to the linked editorial opinion. To me, it does not seem to be "a bringing up of the old Tubby debates themselves." Only an observation. GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[blueheretic]

I'm reminded of a song.

Ramble On

[poodoo]

The truth is the truth. No matter how much you attempt to deny it or who says it. I don't need God or a commentator with "credentials" to tell me that something is a truth. I can see it with my own eyes.

I find this thread to be humourous in it's predictability. Consistent blind loyalty. But the Big Blue malaise is over now. Even as some long for and remain loyal to it's architect than to the University of Kentucky itself. If I never see another article about that man again, I will be happy. It seems as if the very people who wish not to discuss him are the ones who can't stop posting about him.

Just for the record, this particular post was NOT visible to me when I had just posted my two posts on this thread (and had posted merely because this thread, unfortunately, had already been at the VERY TOP of the forum, as I would have otherwise refused to have bumped it to the top). In fact, if it had been here, I would have avoided this thread.

My post had been written to recommend DenCat's thread, which I thought was absolutely TREMENDOUS. Unfortunately, the "column" linked here (and it is true that it is an opinion piece, some of which I happen to agree with, by the way) is ABOUT TUBBY SMITH. Obviously, folks are going to be discussing that former coach when he is the topic of a linked piece. I thus wish it had not even been linked. Regardless, personally, I think we can all still be careful not to label and divide ourselves and get into either totally positive or totally negative comments about the former coach as he is discussed. That seemed to be occurring for a while, so at least that's a good thing.

By the way, Dave, I had personally been celebrating your comment on DenCat's fantastic thread yesterday. There had been no mention of anything other than letting the past go, period--and kudos for that post on that thread. Anyway, again, in NO form or fashion was either of my posts directed toward yours (as yours had been posted only moments before mine and had not become visible on my computer), so PLEASE leave me out of this discussion.

By the way, I believe a label (and actually not a negative one) and an objectionable term to some may have been used within a post. I suspect that person had not even read DenCat's thread, FWIW. Anyway, perhaps that was part of the thread's disintegrating into a debate or merely the topic itself. Regardless, that is why I recommended that everyone read DenCat's wise advice. I do know that for it to work, EVERYONE on both sides will have to "let Tubby go," as MOST of which on BOTH sides have done.

Too, as I just stated, in a thread about Tubby, Tubby is going to be discussed. It just seems to me in that case that responding with both GOOD and BAD points about the former coach seems to match reality. That's at least how I see it. I had thought UKfaninCO's response had been perfect, and that is why I had originally responded on this thread, period. Folks are united when they look for common ground, rather than points of disagreement. Too, I think that is how most here feel. In contrast, if ANY of us start leaning to extremes and labeling the other side (either way), it's back to those old horrid "Tubby debates."

I've always felt the truth usually lies in the middle, as I so often post. I think that's where it lies in regard to Tubby. The post that I responded to in my second post fell right into that category, as I saw it. It seems to me if we don't EMPHASIZE extremes and divisions and forget past posts and speak RESPECTFULLY to one another, without labeling and insults and looking for some areas of agreement, then we CAN all get along, which is what I so desire. As soon as a label or insult is tossed out to our former coach OR to either side of the issue, it goes back to a Tubby debate and division, as I had just noted (BEFORE reading this post, a post with a reaction that would have kept ME out of it, to be totally honest).

I really believe we ALL need to read DenCat's thread again and LET THE PAST GO. I honestly believe the PAST is influencing reactions to current posts. Beside wishing the Tubby piece (which I opened not realizing it was about Tubby) had not been linked, I wish I had never even responded on this thread at all, although I had done so because of UKfaninCO's EXCELLENT assessment and response, at least as I see it.

This post is written, in general, to the entire WCN community, by the way. Again, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND DenCat's thread, as he says what I am trying to say in such a refreshing, brief way. KUDOS to him again for that thread, and perhaps we can go there instead of continuing this thread that has so disintegrated into something not intended by the starter of the thread, I suspect. GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[Caveman Catfan]

The truth is the truth. No matter how much you attempt to deny it or who says it. I don't need God or a commentator with "credentials" to tell me that something is a truth. I can see it with my own eyes.

I find this thread to be humourous in it's predictability. Consistent blind loyalty. But the Big Blue malaise is over now. Even as some long for and remain loyal to it's architect than to the University of Kentucky itself. If I never see another article about that man again, I will be happy. It seems as if the very people who wish not to discuss him are the ones who can't stop posting about him.


And then incivility entered the room in the form of a blueheretic.

It appears from your second paragraph that you really don't know the truth when you see it.

[UKfaninCO]

There may come a time in the future that we can look back on Tubby's tenure objectively, all of us, and discuss his time in such a way that we don't have to resort to name-calling and such ridiculousness. I don't think that time has come yet and it'll likely be another decade before it does come. The fact is Tubby is part of the heritage of the basketball program. Whether you think that to be good or bad is up to you. There will continue to be discussions about his program here. It's up to the individual whether or not they choose to join the discussions. As for me... I have made my last comment about the former Coach above. He's gone, nothing else really matters.

[poodoo]

There may come a time in the future that we can look back on Tubby's tenure objectively, all of us, and discuss his time in such a way that we don't have to resort to name-calling and such ridiculousness. I don't think that time has come yet and it'll likely be another decade before it does come. The fact is Tubby is part of the heritage of the basketball program. Whether you think that to be good or bad is up to you. There will continue to be discussions about his program here. It's up to the individual whether or not they choose to join the discussions. As for me... I have made my last comment about the former Coach above. He's gone, nothing else really matters.

I hear you, UKfaninCO. Of course, too, I can blame YOU for my ever responding in the first place! (SMILEY FACE). Seriously, though, after reading what has occurred here (and I say that as one who never opened the thread on Tubby's tenure as I had known what that one would surely be), I will be careful not even to respond on a thread that has even mentioned the man's name (EXCEPT to defend any character attack on Tubby, which I will do because I believe it is only right to stand up for folks whose character is unfairly attacked). I hear you and SO REGRET that I had responded at all on this thread, although I had THOUGHT it had been a good thing because of your excellent post.

The best sentence in this post of yours is the last one. Yes, Tubby is GONE. Yes, NOTHING ELSE really matters. We have a NEW coach whom most everyone already LOVES. It's a wonderful, exciting time. Like you, I will tread more carefully, trying to realize what the topic is and AVOIDING the topic of Tubby Smith even in a most innocent way, as it can be most disconcerting during such a HAPPY, EXCITING time.

So I began this thread because of your post, and I came back to END my posting on this thread (regardless of what is further said here, by the way) because I glimpsed your name when I had gone back to the first page.

Now, PLEASE, someone bring DenCat's thread BACK TO THE TOP, where this thread had again appeared before this response. (Smiley face.) GO CATS! GO BILLY G!

[phoenix]

The truth is the truth. No matter how much you attempt to deny it or who says it. I don't need God or a commentator with "credentials" to tell me that something is a truth. I can see it with my own eyes.

I find this thread to be humourous in it's predictability. Consistent blind loyalty. But the Big Blue malaise is over now. Even as some long for and remain loyal to it's architect than to the University of Kentucky itself. If I never see another article about that man again, I will be happy. It seems as if the very people who wish not to discuss him are the ones who can't stop posting about him.

Pot, why bother talking to the Kettle? Here is the chimney sweep himself, defining the word black!

[bluegrassking]

I don't get the sensitivity on OTS. Pitino was pretty fair game and nobody seemed to shed a tear, few seemed loath to discuss him even after ten years but OTS aka the sacred cow must be either deleted from memory and all discussion or spoken of glowingly.

Pitino rebuilt the program from a severe probation, won like 82% of his games, took us to three final fours, won a championship, and left enough talent for us to be preseason top 10 giving Tubby the talent needed to bring home #7. It would seem he would be due the same (if not more) respect for his time here as anyone but Rupp but it is Tubby who must be treated with kidd gloves.

If someone is giving bad information on OTS then refute it, but the emotionalism and zeal to rush to his defense seems at least odd. Of course I finished his term believing he would have about destroyed the program as an elite by the time his contract expired but at the same time I didn't about loose it every time someone had an ill word to speak about Pitino or Joe B either.

Seriously, Pitino being the goat bothers few, especially of those who are defensive of Tubby, why can't people that see OTS as the goat be given the same tolerance.

[Caveman Catfan]

I think there was a civil discussion about Tubby taking place before BH decided to cast all those who disagree with him in an unflattering light.

I don't think "objective" and "civil" mean that all people must agree about Tubby. But, when someone starts saying that people who disagree are blindly loyal and loyal to Tubby at the expense of loyalty to the school, then it stops being a discussion about Tubby and becomes what the rules of this forum forbid.

[Caveman Catfan]

And, let's not pretend that when Pitino is criticized there are not those who jump up to defend him. (See above)

[charms]

I think most fo us will agree, OTS is no BG! I think we need to move on and support our new coach. BG has done a great job in the short time he has been here, and the future looks even brighter. I think it is time to let OTS go, and let the future do all the talking.

[blueheretic]

Just for the record, this particular post was NOT visible to me when I had !

Poodoo,

That post was not directed at any one person. It was a general you. Stop taking every post as a personal attack. YOU are not the ONLY "YOU" on this board. There are approximately 2300 posters on this forum. Not every post that follows yours is directed at you. Most are general posts directed towards the general reader.

If I intend a message for someone, I almost always state the name of the person to whom it is directed.

[blueheretic]

I think most fo us will agree, OTS is no BG! I think we need to move on and support our new coach. BG has done a great job in the short time he has been here, and the future looks even brighter. I think it is time to let OTS go, and let the future do all the talking.

Some people are trying to move on. Some people just won't let it go and have to post Smith defense speeches over and over again.

[blueheretic]

:shrug1: I don't get the sensitivity on OTS. Pitino was pretty fair game and nobody seemed to shed a tear, few seemed loath to discuss him even after ten years but OTS aka the sacred cow must be either deleted from memory and all discussion or spoken of glowingly.

Pitino rebuilt the program from a severe probation, won like 82% of his games, took us to three final fours, won a championship, and left enough talent for us to be preseason top 10 giving Tubby the talent needed to bring home #7. It would seem he would be due the same (if not more) respect for his time here as anyone but Rupp but it is Tubby who must be treated with kidd gloves.

If someone is giving bad information on OTS then refute it, but the emotionalism and zeal to rush to his defense seems at least odd. Of course I finished his term believing he would have about destroyed the program as an elite by the time his contract expired but at the same time I didn't about loose it every time someone had an ill word to speak about Pitino or Joe B either.

Seriously, Pitino being the goat bothers few, especially of those who are defensive of Tubby, why can't people that see OTS as the goat be given the same tolerance.

:shrug1: I often wonder the same thing. Pitino did more for UK than any Coach except Rupp. It was open season on Pitino way before he want to UL. So that excuse doesn't fly.

[Caveman Catfan]

Yup, some people only want their position to be told. When was the last time you heard blueheretic complain about someone continuing to criticize Tubby? Answer: never. But, he cannot help to complain when those who disagree voice their opinions.

:rolleyes:

[Caveman Catfan]

:shrug1:

:shrug1: I often wonder the same thing. Pitino did more for UK than any Coach except Rupp. It was open season on Pitino way before he want to UL. So that excuse doesn't fly.



Won't the Legion Of Pitino Defenders let it finally go???? LOL!

[TrueblueCATfan]

Won't the Legion Of Pitino Defenders let it finally go???? LOL!

LOL.................GOOD ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blueheretic]

LOL.................GOOD ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Begs the question:

Who was defending Pitino?

And who was complaining that he got "bashed" or unfairly treated. I merely mentioned the fact that these events transpired. That these posts were made without all of the gnashing of teeth and hellfire and brimstone lamentations.

So...not really a "good one." But hey...good try.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Begs the question:

Who was defending Pitino?

And who was complaining that he got "bashed" or unfairly treated. I merely mentioned the fact that these events transpired. That these posts were made without all of the gnashing of teeth and hellfire and brimstone lamentations.

So...not really a "good one." But hey...good try.

YOUR OPINION....I thought it was funny

[TrueblueCATfan]

Begs the question:

Who was defending Pitino?

And who was complaining that he got "bashed" or unfairly treated. I merely mentioned the fact that these events transpired. That these posts were made without all of the gnashing of teeth and hellfire and brimstone lamentations.

So...not really a "good one." But hey...good try.

no one in particular......but in the past many on here always defended him..

[UKhoov]

Next time I wont post anything involving the following....I should have known better.

Wont post articles or start threads or replys involving:
OTS
Tubby
Coach Smith
The Tubster
or any variations of the above, or other


This started as a mere observation of where the two coaches are and the difference in how they operate. I supported our former coach until he left and wish him the best at his new job. But I will no longer engage in message board discussions involving this.

Thank you and sorry I started this; now someone beer me a new topic!

GO CATS!! GO BCG!!

[TrueblueCATfan]

Next time I wont post anything involving the following....I should have known better.

Wont post articles or start threads or replys involving:
OTS
Tubby
Coach Smith
The Tubster
or any variations of the above, or other


This started as a mere observation of where the two coaches are and the difference in how they operate. I supported our former coach until he left and wish him the best at his new job. But I will no longer engage in message board discussions involving this.

Thank you and sorry I started this; now someone beer me a new topic!

GO CATS!! GO BCG!!

for the record it is a good thread and I agree with the article..believe it or not...I like Tubby and I supported him..but he got in over his head here in the last few years...I love our new coach...and I love what he is already doing for UK

[Caveman Catfan]

now someone beer me a new topic!



ANDY!!!!!

[charms]

Some people are trying to move on. Some people just won't let it go and have to post Smith defense speeches over and over again.

If they dont want to let go then follow him to Minnesota! As for me and I m sure others I will continue to follow The University of Kentucky and Billie G.

[lribookend]

Also, I don't agree with that premise.

Perhaps you can give an example or two to demonstrate the accuracy of your opinion. I cannot think of even one.

[UKhoov]

ANDY!!!!!

I have been saying it since that episode...i think its funny...however my girlfriend and co-workers dont think it is as humorous.


I have to say that Littlemeyer was the first poster on here I saw use it. Hat tip to Littlemeyer!!

[Littlemeyer]

...beer me a new topic!


:icon_lol: I'm tellin' ya...that'll never get old!

I've been using another line from that episode. At work, if things tend to be getting hectic, I'll yell out, "Come on people! Threat level: Midnight!"

Nobody laughs except for me. :shrug1::icon_lol:

[poodoo]

Poodoo,

That post was not directed at any one person. It was a general you. Stop taking every post as a personal attack. YOU are not the ONLY "YOU" on this board. There are approximately 2300 posters on this forum. Not every post that follows yours is directed at you. Most are general posts directed towards the general reader.

If I intend a message for someone, I almost always state the name of the person to whom it is directed.

Dave, I had not intended to respond anymore, period, BECAUSE of repeatedly being misunderstood. Ironically, I must respond here because still again, you have totally misunderstood my post.

I had not THOUGHT that your response had been a response to me. INSTEAD, my post had FOLLOWED yours, and I suspected you were immediately going to think I had directed it toward YOU. You have it backwards. Please read my post again.

Since you posted to me that you were losing respect for YOU folks who kept defending Smith AND essentially accused me of being a member of the Smith Defense Brigade, I had privately (between ME and MYSELF) decided to be sure not to respond to ANYTHING you said here, as I was obviously been misinterpreted and had THOUGHT I had been responding to someone who RESPECTED me.

Anyway, I have figured out from some of the comments to me that you seem "to have a problem with me." Dumb me, for I had honestly not had a problem with you. Instead, I had honestly wanted you to ENJOY this new hire and enjoy discussing UK basketball here and FORGET anything from the past, both the coach or interaction with posters. I cared for you as a person and had thus continued to "talk" with you in that regard here. When I saw you agree with DenCat, I probably smiled the biggest smile I've smiled in a while, and I smile a lot.

So that is how it has REALLY been, regardless of some of the ways you have been interpreting my posts. I figured it out, though, and decided I had just better not respond at all. If you will read my post, hopefully you will see that you have it backwards. I had not thought anything from you had been directed toward ME, but, instead, I FEARED you had thought that comment was directed toward you when I saw your post was ahead of mine. In other words, I did not want you to think that my post had been meant to be critical of yours. I TRY to be so careful not to offend anyone, to see BOTH the good and bad within our former coach whom I would prefer not to discuss at all (and check out my response on this thread--in that regard--right in the MIDDLE, just like usual).

If I'm not on your "ignore" list, you can hopefully read this response and read through the thread and see that this "rant" toward me goes right with some of the other false accusations. Beyond that, as I said, I give up. Because I had known and liked you, I was TRYING to reach you. I obviously FAILED.

Also, WHEN you have addressed me in posts with these various accusations, am I suppose to think they are really intended for someone else, too? It's all confusing to me, besides, yes, hurtful, for there have been no bad feelings from this side of the aisle or whatever. I am finding it more and more diffcult to understand you, though, as you repeatedly misunderstand what I am saying in my posts to you (and, yes, misunderstand the feelings of a lot of posters as you still somehow BELIEVE that there are folks here (and MAYBE there might be ONE or TWO) who are loyal to Tubby Smith over this university and basketball program. I have tried so hard to get you to see that is NOT the case, and you STILL post about that. Please read what you posted on DenCat's thread the FIRST time and do that. Then we can ALL be so happy and enjoy this hire TOGETHER.

Yes, stupid me, I tried STILL AGAIN. I had not meant to post another word, but after reading your misunderstanding of my post, I had HAD to post just one more "long-winded" response (and I HOPE that term was not also a label for me, but "ramble on" was a response here that DID seem to be directed to me, as it had followed my post). I KNow I certainly prefer to talk with you "face to face." That's for certain. THEN you can SEE there is NOTHING in my heart but love and kindness and truly understand. Oh, well. That's it.

[poodoo]

UKhoov, you do NOT need to apologize for starting this thread. You provided a link to a legitimate, interesting article. Yes, seeing how the thread disintegrated into another Tubby debate, I wish it had never been linked. HOWEVER, you should NOT feel any blame.

Too, notice some of the early responses, especially UKfaninCO's, with which both Will Lavender and I agreed. By the way, besides briefly noting both good and bad about our former coach, his response ENDED with focus on our NEW coach, who is none other than Billy Clyde Gillispie.

For the umpteenth time, I think virtually EVERYONE already LOVES Coach Gillispie, and I think that is a wonderful thing. I just want us ALL to enjoy that. Yes, though, while you did NO wrong in starting this thread, I will certainly be much happier when EVERYONE "lets Tubby go."

[BigBlue75]

Next time I wont post anything involving the following....I should have known better.

Wont post articles or start threads or replys involving:
OTS
Tubby
Coach Smith
The Tubster
or any variations of the above, or other


This started as a mere observation of where the two coaches are and the difference in how they operate. I supported our former coach until he left and wish him the best at his new job. But I will no longer engage in message board discussions involving this.

Thank you and sorry I started this; now someone beer me a new topic!

GO CATS!! GO BCG!!

There's no need to apologize, UKhoov. Yours was a legitimate observation and it was good thread for discussion, which is exactly what was taking place until ONE PERSON (and we all know who it is) decided he was going to come in and turn it into something you never intended. Further, he has the unmitigated GALL to act like everyone else has the problem and it's everyone's else's fault, yet he takes every post that doesn't agree with him as a personal affront.

You keep right on making observations. :thumbup: