How Did this very Elite Program Get in this Shape

[BJL]

we have got no power forward or weak side help and no relief for Morris...There has to be a really big lack of organization or the inability to recxruit the 3/4 spots and 5 for that matter....what a shame..UK is now in the pack and not at the top nor is it an elite program any more....I hope the bleeding stops soon

[KennesawCat]

I'm going to bank onthe fact that every no program stays at the top year after year after year. Heck, most programs don't get there once in 15 years.

So we have a down year, maybe next year also.

Tubby has a great class coming in next year. It's going to take a few years to build back this program.

It's not like we're 8-20 (UNC). We've got something to build on, it's just not going to happen this year.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

agreed with above. Yeah this year sucks...and it hurts ... real bad. I'm so dejected and almost at a loss for words. It's tough, when you put your heart into something like this so much and thenfeel embarassed because your team has "let you down".I just think we all have to realize that this is just one season, and we're still not having that "bad" of a year. OK, nothing by our standards but stll alot better than most teams out there. Anyone please I beg you to quote me now """""WE WILL BE IN NCAAS"""""". Stop worrying ! If for no more than tv ratings, we will freakin be there.Then, look at next year. I for one think Cats are looking at solid top 10 when we get that next class and current guys grow up a little

[cbc317]

CatFanInTheBathtub wrote: agreed with above. Yeah this year sucks...and it hurts ... real bad. I'm so dejected and almost at a loss for words. It's tough, when you put your heart into something like this so much and thenfeel embarassed because your team has "let you down".I just think we all have to realize that this is just one season, and we're still not having that "bad" of a year. OK, nothing by our standards but stll alot better than most teams out there. Anyone please I beg you to quote me now """""WE WILL BE IN NCAAS"""""". Stop worrying ! If for no more than tv ratings, we will freakin be there.Then, look at next year. I for one think Cats are looking at solid top 10 when we get that next class and current guys grow up a little
You are in absolute denial. If this group doesn't signigicantly improve in the near future, they are facing four more losses, which would make them 8-8 in the SEC. They are NO lock for the NCAA. TV ratings don't matter when you can't even WIN the first round game.

As for next year. TOP 10. Were you talking about UT? If not, how are a group of freshman going to make this a TOP 10 team? We are losing our most consistent 3-point shooter (who is not all that consistent) and our best player, who happens to be a walk-on? Throw in the fact that there will definitely be some defections from the current team and I just don't know how you can make that prediction. A good recruting class won't solve the problems we are going to be facing.

[BigblueDrew]

Top 10 next year, bring on Tattoo and Mr. Rourke you are definitly on Fantasy Island man.

[jtclarkUK]

We have the potential not even to be ranked next year.

If you think about we lose:

Patrick and Ravi

We have the potential to lose (and a good pecetage to lose):

Randolph, Rajon, and possibly now Ramel after hearing what Tubby said in the post game conference.

We are left with Joe (who will soon be a GREAT player) and the suckiest recruiting class Tubster has ever brought in (the current junior class) and this years class (which isn't all that great) and the new comers who will be here in the fall (which is a pretty darn good class but they are young and no experience.)

A possible UK lineup next year could be:
Jodie, Jasper, Joe, Perry, and Jared

Could be another LONG year next year. Here's to the hope that everyone comes back that can come back next year with a much higher basketball IQ than this year....If not, I will be bald and have gray hair before my 24th birthday

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

Not to bring up old sheist but looking through somepast threads I was involved in I came across this and thought it applied well to whatever situation we are in right now. I also noticed that I got some replies that I had not noticed before where people thought I was dreaming to think that we would actually make the ncaa tournament and that we would **gasp** ...be a top 10 team next year. It got me thinking about how things went after this thread, which was right after ut took us down in Rupp. As you know, we went on to drop one at Vandy four days later to reach what I have described as the lowest of low points this season. Then, Tubby benched the attitudes and we started winning again. In fact, if you look at what we did since that point, in relation to how the entire ncaa has done...we looked pretty damn good.

After Feb. 11, we had 7 wins and 4 losses

wins included south car, tenn, alabama, and uab

losses were to LSU (reached final four), uf (reached final four),

south car (NIT runner up or champ) and uconn (reached elite eight)



in case it matters, the lsu and uconn games were, of course,down to the wire, where we didn't necessarily get "outplayed"

By ourfinal game, I do indeed we were playing like a top ten team. No, I do not think we will be in the top ten to start06-07, due to our early exit, but will we get there and stay ?you'd have to say it's a very real possibility.

[wildcatdon]

if we are better next year i will be shocked..the recruiting or lack thereof has absolutely killed our program..we landed exactly 0 of the kids that played in the all star game last night..two are still undecided and we are not players with them either..why the hell not? this is ridiculous..and both are forwards..one of them is considering Rutgers for crying out loud..

[SouthBeachWildcat]

I guess we all should forget about the fact that our 2 power forwards, Sheray and Sims, have both had life altering medical situations happen to them that uncontrollably caused their game to deminish significantly.

[Houstoncat]

I would think massive improvment say to 25 wins is unlikely unless the PF position is solved and we do not have mass defections.

We played well against UConn but frankly I don't believe in moral victories this team has problems that need to be addressed and unless intensive tutoring increases a basically low BBall IQ we are looking at a very long year next year....at least by big blue standards.

[Stretch]

Tubby had a strong relationship with Brandon Wright developed over a long period of time. I have no doubt that Wright told him more than once that he would be a Wildcat.

The problem was, there was two years between Chuck Hayes leaving and Wright arriving. Tubby had too much loyalty to Wright to go after another elite HS player in the 2005 class so he did the next best thing. He identified Rekalin Sims as the best juco PF in the nation, the national juco player of the year, and he went out and got him. Anybody who saw Sims against Iowa knows he can play but bad luck reared its ugly head and Sims developed back problems that relegated him to ineffective spot duty.

So, we had two players in the program--Sheray and Sims--to plug the PF dike until Brandon Wright took over and BOTH of them got sick. What are the chances of that?

And then Wright made an impulsive choice to turn his back on Tubby and sign with UNC completely out of the blue. There is no way that anybody could have seen that coming.

Just bad luck, but I am confident that Tubby will persevere and overcome those setbacks. He is too good of a coach and man and his national stature is too strong not to.

[freethrow]

I'm not in the same boat with you guys. While I don't see us opening the season in the top 10, I do see it as quite possible by the latter half of the season. I would think that Tubby has proven he knows what he is doing. Yes, we missed out on some big time recruits last year, but even with the lack there of we had a pretty solid team by the end of this season.

My biggest concern about next season, as with most fans, is scoring from the power forward spot. I don't think defense will be that big of a problem though. We will have a ton of experience and with Stevenson coming in to help out in that area we should be pretty solid.

Meeks, Jasper, Porter, Stevenson should all be a plus next year. I think it still possible that we see another decent PF added before it's all over too. And hasn't this season shown folks that the rankings miss a lot of jewels?

[Athens2005]

I think it is the fans' fault.

They clearly do not cheer properly, and also are guilty of booing at the wrong times.

I've also heard that some of them, if they can't watch the games, do not leave the TV on when they leave the house, thus ruining the karma.

[graham51]

Just bad luck, but I am confident that Tubby will persevere and overcome those setbacks. He is too good of a coach and man and his national stature is too strong not to.


Does "bad luck" explain all of Tubby's recruiting misses?

[DCWildcat]

We went into 2 overtimes last year in the elite eight, and were a Bradley injury away from the final four. Relax. Our program is not in the dumps. How shortsighted some of us are.

[Buddah]

graham51 wrote:

Does "bad luck" explain all of Tubby's recruiting misses?



Pretty Much it, atleast in some people's eyes. that and kids that don't turn out are usually just head cases, that seem to conceal their thugishness and just don't want to dedicate themselves. ;)

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

I guess I just don't understand why so many people are dogging next year's class.

We're getting, supposedly, the 34th, 35th and 59th best high school players in the country. Given the thousands and thousands of high schools out there times 10-15 players each, and I'd saythat's a pretty decent accomplishment. Sometimes folks act as if recruits should be begging at our door to let them play for us, because we're Kentucky. Folks act as if Tubby's not doing his job because he can't convince7 foot Johnny Prospect to come live inhillbilly farm town, freeze hisroundballs off during theseason, anddeal with the most critical fan base in America should he actually lose a game.I say we're lucky to be getting who we're getting, and I look forward to seeing what Tub can do with them.

[RCS]

Do you know who else got zero Mc D AA, the entire SEC. The same SEC that has two teams in the Final 4. Next year class is solid. If you look at the probable top 5 picks in the NBA draft, probably the only McAA is Gay, maybe Aldridge. Noah, Ty Thomas, Morrisson were not close to Mc D AA. It is not the end all be all. We clearly need a PF and I have no idea why we have failed to get one that could contribute,but we do actually have a PF coming in that looks to be pretty good in Stevenson. I am excited about his potential.If Morris and Crawford continue to improve and can become leaders, I think this team has a very high ceiling. Frankly we will have a whole lot of talent on this team, and unlike last year, quite a few athletes. A late addition of Smith or Darrell Arthur(Unlikely) would make for a fantastic class.

UF turned their program around with a class similar to what we have coming in, not with a class of McD AA.

[Will Lavender]

Talking about next year is about as productive as filling out my NCAA brackets.

It's interesting that those who don't like Tubby claim we'll suck next year.

And it's interesting that those who do like Tubby claim we'll be awesome next year.

Me? I think I'll wait and see. We could lose everybody that we fear we might lose and be better - that's how strange and unpredictable college basketball is.

I'm of the mind that if we can keep Randolph Morris, then we will be a better team next year. Everything else will take care of itself.

Oh, and this recruiting class is a good one. Don't let anybody tell you different.

[poodoo]

CatFanInTheBathtub wrote:As you know, we went on to drop one at Vandy four days later to reach what I have described as the lowest of low points this season. Then, Tubby benched the attitudes and we started winning again. In fact, if you look at what we did since that point, in relation to how the entire ncaa has done...we looked pretty damn good.

After Feb. 11, we had 7 wins and 4 losses

wins included south car, tenn, alabama, and uab

losses were to LSU (reached final four), uf (reached final four),

south car (NIT runner up or champ) and uconn (reached elite eight)



in case it matters, the lsu and uconn games were, of course,down to the wire, where we didn't necessarily get "outplayed."

________________________

Exactly, CatFanInTheBathtub.Yes, overall, this past season was most disappointing. However, many fanshave not seemed to notice what you just pointed out. After that lowest point of the season, thesecond loss to Vandy, Tubby benchedseveral starters, and things really turnedaround. Wefinally started playing well.

As you have pointed out, from that point, weonly hadfour losses, three of which were one-possession games, folks. Those thre losses were to Final Four participantLSUon their court, tonumberseed and predicted winner of the national championship UCONN, and to a South Carolin team that we had already beaten twice and whothen lost to Florida by one possession, besidespossiblybeing the NIT champ tonight. The fourth loss, the only loss that was more than a loss by one possession,was to Final Four participant Florida at their place.

UK'sschedule at the end of the season was very difficult.PlayingFinal Four participantasLSU and Florida on the road, besides UT on the road, was the toughest stretch of the season. For that reasonfans havetended not to notice how much better we were playing.FWIW, while I think Tubby didnot have atypical good year coaching-wise, I think he did a GREAT job, for the mostpart, beginning with the benchingof the players who were notdoing some of the things important to his system.

What you have shared shows that things were on a definite upswing late in the season, even though we still had those thirteen losses and a disappointing exit from thetourney. Inother words, yes, TubbySmith CAN still coach.For me, it's not Doom and Gloom. Yes,Tubby's not getting a power forward to signwith us is hurting us, and I fully understand everyone's concern in that regard.On the other hand, I sawhow Tubby changed things around with this group, who had performed so poorly during much of the season, and that still gives me HOPE for the future.

This program is not yet in such badshape. A program that had been the winningest program in the nation for three straight seasons had ONE bad year. Look at how some of the other "elite" programs fared this year. Look at how the so-hyped BigEast fared in the tourney.Look just down the roadand see how a team who had made it to the Final Four last season and had been ratedin the top five before theseason begandid noteven make it to the NCAATourney this season.That teamsupposedly didn't make it because of that hyped "mighty" Big East in which it competed. Well, that's thesame BIg East that has zero teams in theFinal Four while UK's conference hastwo teams there.That team down the road was DESTROYED by alittle old SEC team Tuesday night. :)

No,our program is NOT inbadshape at this time.We had ONE bad year. Yes, I am concerned about that power forward position. Let's wait and see, though,how next season actually goes before we pronounce Doom and Gloom. At least that is my choice, forsure. :)

FWIW, the last time UK fans pronounced Doom and Gloom was after the loss to Louisville three years ago. Thatteam went on towin nineteen in a row in theconference and narrowly missed a Final Four appearance, perhaps because of an injury toits star player.Fansshouldlearn not to giveup on Tubby Smith. Hang in there. :)

[poodoo]

Me? I think I'll wait and see. QUOTE by Will Lavender

________

Your post had not been there when I had written mine. Well, I just read it, and these words caught my attention. Those same words were in my rather lengthy post. :cool:

Yes, as I said, fans, let's just WAIT AND SEE. That's certainly what I will do. Too, as I see it, no one KNOWS how this team will perform next season. I have no idea. Yet, I am hoping for the best. :)

[Will Lavender]

poodoo wrote: CatFanInTheBathtub wrote:As you know, we went on to drop one at Vandy four days later to reach what I have described as the lowest of low points this season. Then, Tubby benched the attitudes and we started winning again. In fact, if you look at what we did since that point, in relation to how the entire ncaa has done...we looked pretty damn good.

After Feb. 11, we had 7 wins and 4 losses

wins included south car, tenn, alabama, and uab

losses were to LSU (reached final four), uf (reached final four),

south car (NIT runner up or champ) and uconn (reached elite eight)



in case it matters, the lsu and uconn games were, of course,down to the wire, where we didn't necessarily get "outplayed."

________________________

Exactly, CatFanInTheBathtub.Yes, overall, this past season was most disappointing. However, many fanshave not seemed to notice what you just pointed out. After that lowest point of the season, thesecond loss to Vandy, Tubby benchedseveral starters, and things really turnedaround. Wefinally started playing well.

As you have pointed out, from that point, weonly hadfour losses, three of which were one-possession games, folks. Those thre losses were to Final Four participantLSUon their court, tonumberseed and predicted winner of the national championship UCONN, and to a South Carolin team that we had already beaten twice and whothen lost to Florida by one possession, besidespossiblybeing the NIT champ tonight. The fourth loss, the only loss that was more than a loss by one possession,was to Final Four participant Florida at their place.

UK'sschedule at the end of the season was very difficult.PlayingFinal Four participantasLSU and Florida on the road, besides UT on the road, was the toughest stretch of the season. For that reasonfans havetended not to notice how much better we were playing.FWIW, while I think Tubby didnot have atypical good year coaching-wise, I think he did a GREAT job, for the mostpart, beginning with the benchingof the players who were notdoing some of the things important to his system.

What you have shared shows that things were on a definite upswing late in the season, even though we still had those thirteen losses and a disappointing exit from thetourney. Inother words, yes, TubbySmith CAN still coach.For me, it's not Doom and Gloom. Yes,Tubby's not getting a power forward to signwith us is hurting us, and I fully understand everyone's concern in that regard.On the other hand, I sawhow Tubby changed things around with this group, who had performed so poorly during much of the season, and that still gives me HOPE for the future.

This program is not yet in such badshape. A program that had been the winningest program in the nation for three straight seasons had ONE bad year. Look at how some of the other "elite" programs fared this year. Look at how the so-hyped BigEast fared in the tourney.Look just down the roadand see how a team who had made it to the Final Four last season and had been ratedin the top five before theseason begandid noteven make it to the NCAATourney this season.That teamsupposedly didn't make it because of that hyped "mighty" Big East in which it competed. Well, that's thesame BIg East that has zero teams in theFinal Four while UK's conference hastwo teams there.That team down the road was DESTROYED by alittle old SEC team Tuesday night. :)

No,our program is NOT inbadshape at this time.We had ONE bad year. Yes, I am concerned about that power forward position. Let's wait and see, though,how next season actually goes before we pronounce Doom and Gloom. At least that is my choice, forsure. :)

FWIW, the last time UK fans pronounced Doom and Gloom was after the loss to Louisville three years ago. Thatteam went on towin nineteen in a row in theconference and narrowly missed a Final Four appearance, perhaps because of an injury toits star player.Fansshouldlearn not to giveup on Tubby Smith. Hang in there. :)



Very fine post, poodoo. :thumbup:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup

[bluegrassking]

CatFanInTheBathtub wrote: Not to bring up old sheist but looking through somepast threads I was involved in I came across this and thought it applied well to whatever situation we are in right now. I also noticed that I got some replies that I had not noticed before where people thought I was dreaming to think that we would actually make the ncaa tournament and that we would **gasp** ...be a top 10 team next year. It got me thinking about how things went after this thread, which was right after ut took us down in Rupp. As you know, we went on to drop one at Vandy four days later to reach what I have described as the lowest of low points this season. Then, Tubby benched the attitudes and we started winning again. In fact, if you look at what we did since that point, in relation to how the entire ncaa has done...we looked pretty damn good.

After Feb. 11, we had 7 wins and 4 losses

wins included south car, alabama, and uab

losses were to LSU (reached final four), uf (reached final four),

south car (NIT runner up or champ) and uconn (reached elite eight)



in case it matters, the lsu and uconn games were, of course,down to the wire, where we didn't necessarily get "outplayed"

By ourfinal game, I do indeed we were playing like a top ten team. No, I do not think we will be in the top ten to start06-07, due to our early exit, but will we get there and stay ?you'd have to say it's a very real possibility.



Wow! your right! The last third of the season we played on such a pace that we would only have lost about 12 games.

These negative Nellys are really confused, who cares if you can rarelybeat teams that last to their second game of the NCAA's, when you know you beat the NIT Championshipteam 2/3 times.

Nothing to hang your head about when your are 4th or 5th in your confrence and make the big dance!!!

I wish O wish, a mighty big wish, that the NCAA gave out banners for participation.

Show up against good teams and get your *** handed to you is the way to go!

Much preferable to being The Best is showing up and being decent!!!

OK RULES!!!!

[DCWildcat]

bluegrassking wrote: CatFanInTheBathtub wrote: Not to bring up old sheist but looking through somepast threads I was involved in I came across this and thought it applied well to whatever situation we are in right now. I also noticed that I got some replies that I had not noticed before where people thought I was dreaming to think that we would actually make the ncaa tournament and that we would **gasp** ...be a top 10 team next year. It got me thinking about how things went after this thread, which was right after ut took us down in Rupp. As you know, we went on to drop one at Vandy four days later to reach what I have described as the lowest of low points this season. Then, Tubby benched the attitudes and we started winning again. In fact, if you look at what we did since that point, in relation to how the entire ncaa has done...we looked pretty damn good.

After Feb. 11, we had 7 wins and 4 losses

wins included south car, alabama, and uab

losses were to LSU (reached final four), uf (reached final four),

south car (NIT runner up or champ) and uconn (reached elite eight)



in case it matters, the lsu and uconn games were, of course,down to the wire, where we didn't necessarily get "outplayed"

By ourfinal game, I do indeed we were playing like a top ten team. No, I do not think we will be in the top ten to start06-07, due to our early exit, but will we get there and stay ?you'd have to say it's a very real possibility.



Wow! your right! The last third of the season we played on such a pace that we would only have lost about 12 games.

These negative Nellys are really confused, who cares if you can rarelybeat teams that last to their second game of the NCAA's, when you know you beat the NIT Championshipteam 2/3 times.

Nothing to hang your head about when your are 4th or 5th in your confrence and make the big dance!!!

I wish O wish, a mighty big wish, that the NCAA gave out banners for participation.

Show up against good teams and get your *** handed to you is the way to go!

Much preferable to being The Best is showing up and being decent!!!

OK RULES!!!!


Sarcasm is fun.

Man, it sucks to be a fan of a team that's been to 4 elite 8's and won a national championship since 1998, and has the 3rd highest winning percentage of any team in country. God, I hate that so much.

[TOPCAT]

Tubby couldn`t control the two defining events that devastated the team this year!Azibuike leaving and only having Morris for half the year doomed this team!Having Buike at the four and Morris with him would have given us a team that would still be playing.You take two players of the magnitude of `buike and randolf off any of the final four teams and they would not be there!

[SunBaller]

Buddah wrote: graham51 wrote: Does "bad luck" explain all of Tubby's recruiting misses?Pretty Much it, atleast in some people's eyes. that and kids that don't turn out are usually just head cases, that seem to conceal their thugishness and just don't want to dedicate themselves. ;)

Buddah,

I never noticed your signature before "You're flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore". I'm a big John Prine fan. Learned his trade in Muhlenberg County, Kentucky (Patrick Sparks' Central City to be exact). His grandparents were from there and he visited frequently and learned that Muhlenburg Sound from the Everly Brothers via Merle Travis.

I think I'll change my handle to "Sam Stone". There's a hole in daddy's arm where all the money goes.

[Lost Highway]

TOPCAT wrote: Tubby couldn`t control the two defining events that devastated the team this year!Azibuike leaving and only having Morris for half the year doomed this team!Having Buike at the four and Morris with him would have given us a team that would still be playing.You take two players of the magnitude of `buike and randolf off any of the final four teams and they would not be there!
Think about what you just said. Think about it.Don't you recall LSU and UF had players toleave early?

You see we are looking for excuses. Kentucky should not make excuses.

[bluegrassking]

TOPCAT wrote: Tubby couldn`t control the two defining events that devastated the team this year!Azibuike leaving and only having Morris for half the year doomed this team!Having Buike at the four and Morris with him would have given us a team that would still be playing.You take two players of the magnitude of `buike and randolf off any of the final four teams and they would not be there!


Kaz is a 6"5 shooting guard. He is not a 4 by any stretch of the most blue tinted imagination. Hayes may have been no taller but neither is Charles Barkley. Kelenna's game was not that of a PF and you know better than to say it was, if you followed his career.

In any event, this is modern college basketball and you have to recruit and develop players to fill the shoes of those that move on. Only a fool expects stud players to hang out four years.

You are implying then, that Kaz is no stud and therefore couldn't have made that big a diffrence on a team withSparks and two McDonald's All-American guards. Or you are saying we have a coach that neither understands the modern game nor is he prepared to cope with it.

It would have been nice to have Azubuike but with guard talent we had, it is unexcusable to miss him as bad as you make out.

This team was devasted by not having talented depth and by having a coach that plays a style that doesn't fit the players on hand.

Forcing a half-court approach, with no cutting and movement with a guard heavy team is damn silly in my opinion, and that is the straw that broke the camels back with my belief in Orlando Smith.

[Will Lavender]

bluegrassking wrote: TOPCAT wrote: Tubby couldn`t control the two defining events that devastated the team this year!Azibuike leaving and only having Morris for half the year doomed this team!Having Buike at the four and Morris with him would have given us a team that would still be playing.You take two players of the magnitude of `buike and randolf off any of the final four teams and they would not be there

Forcing a half-court approach, with no cutting and movement with a guard heavy team is damn silly in my opinion, and that is the straw that broke the camels back with my belief in Orlando Smith.

You picked the wrong straw.

What you point out here was the least of our problems this year. This team could score. It just couldn't do anything else well, especially guard people.

[allday]

DCWildcat wrote: bluegrassking wrote: CatFanInTheBathtub wrote: Not to bring up old sheist but looking through somepast threads I was involved in I came across this and thought it applied well to whatever situation we are in right now. I also noticed that I got some replies that I had not noticed before where people thought I was dreaming to think that we would actually make the ncaa tournament and that we would **gasp** ...be a top 10 team next year. It got me thinking about how things went after this thread, which was right after ut took us down in Rupp. As you know, we went on to drop one at Vandy four days later to reach what I have described as the lowest of low points this season. Then, Tubby benched the attitudes and we started winning again. In fact, if you look at what we did since that point, in relation to how the entire ncaa has done...we looked pretty damn good.

After Feb. 11, we had 7 wins and 4 losses

wins included south car, alabama, and uab

losses were to LSU (reached final four), uf (reached final four),

south car (NIT runner up or champ) and uconn (reached elite eight)



in case it matters, the lsu and uconn games were, of course,down to the wire, where we didn't necessarily get "outplayed"

By ourfinal game, I do indeed we were playing like a top ten team. No, I do not think we will be in the top ten to start06-07, due to our early exit, but will we get there and stay ?you'd have to say it's a very real possibility.



Wow! your right! The last third of the season we played on such a pace that we would only have lost about 12 games.

These negative Nellys are really confused, who cares if you can rarelybeat teams that last to their second game of the NCAA's, when you know you beat the NIT Championshipteam 2/3 times.

Nothing to hang your head about when your are 4th or 5th in your confrence and make the big dance!!!

I wish O wish, a mighty big wish, that the NCAA gave out banners for participation.

Show up against good teams and get your *** handed to you is the way to go!

Much preferable to being The Best is showing up and being decent!!!

OK RULES!!!!


Sarcasm is fun.

Man, it sucks to be a fan of a team that's been to 4 elite 8's and won a national championship since 1998, and has the 3rd highest winning percentage of any team in country. God, I hate that so much. Ok here is some sarcasm for you since you love it so much.I love being a fan of a team that was considered the teams of the 90's that is turning into the also ran of the 00's. I love being a fan of a team that lacks effort.I love being a fan of a team that has to depend on marginal players turning into superstars as we all know that happens so often. HMMM i can remember that happening to lets see.. Chuck Hayes.. well thats one...I love being a fan of a team that once was FEARED.I love being a fan of a team that has a selfish star player that doesn't care how bad it looks to drive around in a $75,000 SUV that belongs to a former player here. Is that enough sacrcasm for you???

[Buddah]

TOPCAT wrote:
Tubby couldn`t control the two defining events that devastated the team this year!Azibuike leaving and only having Morris for half the year doomed this team!Having Buike at the four and Morris with him would have given us a team that would still be playing.You take two players of the magnitude of `buike and randolf off any of the final four teams and they would not be there!

Kaz was not a four RFLMAO, he was lucky to play the three. He should have played the two. The same way Joe Crawford is not a three and should be a two. There is as many playing out of position for tubby as anyone i can remember.

[Will Lavender]

Buddah wrote: TOPCAT wrote:
Tubby couldn`t control the two defining events that devastated the team this year!Azibuike leaving and only having Morris for half the year doomed this team!Having Buike at the four and Morris with him would have given us a team that would still be playing.You take two players of the magnitude of `buike and randolf off any of the final four teams and they would not be there!

Kaz was not a four RFLMAO, he was lucky to play the three. He should have played the two. The same way Joe Crawford is not a three and should be a two. There is as many playing out of position for tubby as anyone i can remember.
Joe and Kelenna are two different players.

Kelenna is 6'5" and never had, that I saw, problems containing people on the wing defensively. Joe is closer to 6'2" (and that's being generous) and, as you say, is completely out of position and tends to get obliterated by taller, longer people.

But heck, Buddah, why are you worried about people playing out of position? You spent the entire year begging for the Jay Wright four-guard offense. Obviously, people have to play out of position when you play four guards.

[allday]

Will Lavender wrote: Buddah wrote: TOPCAT wrote:
Tubby couldn`t control the two defining events that devastated the team this year!Azibuike leaving and only having Morris for half the year doomed this team!Having Buike at the four and Morris with him would have given us a team that would still be playing.You take two players of the magnitude of `buike and randolf off any of the final four teams and they would not be there!

Kaz was not a four RFLMAO, he was lucky to play the three. He should have played the two. The same way Joe Crawford is not a three and should be a two. There is as many playing out of position for tubby as anyone i can remember.
Joe and Kelenna are two different players.

Kelenna is 6'5" and never had, that I saw, problems containing people on the wing defensively. Joe is closer to 6'2" (and that's being generous) and, as you say, is completely out of position and tends to get obliterated by taller, longer people.

But heck, Buddah, why are you worried about people playing out of position? You spent the entire year begging for the Jay Wright four-guard offense. Obviously, people have to play out of position when you play four guards. Well, in Buddah's defense, when all your "players" are guards you pretty much have no choice but to play a four guard offense. Unless you want to go with that intimadating lineup with Woo and Thomas at the 4 and 5. Buddah is talking necessity, not preference. Joe is a 2, but to be honest, did we really have a 3 or a 4 this year???

[Buddah]

Two totally different things, Tubby tried, as he always has, the conventional lineup of two guards, two forwards and a center, if you are going to go that route, at least get the players that play that position

Wright on the other hand, had four guards and forward, he didn't pretend it was anything else... two totally different things. this season is over with, we will have plenty of time to either disdain or laude coach when the season starts back up....

on kaz and joe, while two different players at the heart of it all, lies two two guards playing out of position, no matter how you want to shake it.

[BigblueDrew]

Will Lavender wrote: Talking about next year is about as productive as filling out my NCAA brackets.

It's interesting that those who don't like Tubby claim we'll suck next year.

And it's interesting that those who do like Tubby claim we'll be awesome next year.

Me? I think I'll wait and see. We could lose everybody that we fear we might lose and be better - that's how strange and unpredictable college basketball is.

I'm of the mind that if we can keep Randolph Morris, then we will be a better team next year. Everything else will take care of itself.

Oh, and this recruiting class is a good one. Don't let anybody tell you different.
Will, I don't think next years class is bad, it isn't, but as has happened several times during Tubby's tenure he failed to recruit what we NEEDED most. Where's the beef, Perry Stevenson may turn out to be a great one, but I have seen the kid and it is difficult for me to believe he will provide the inside impact next year that we DESPERATELY need. It just blows my mind that a program like Kentucky can have such a glaring hole at the 4(one that would provide immediate playing time for a good freshman) and still we can't get a single big time recruit to come here. I saw at least 3 or 4 kids last night in the Mac. game that obviously could start for us right away and yet all ofthem( and several more) are going elsewhere, often to schools where they will have to wait in line or copete agianst other talented upperclassmen. I just don't understand it, it is a PROBLEM. A problem that many and even Tubby himself seem unwilling to deal with. Something is wrong with our recruiting, I don't know what it is and apparently niether does Tubby. I hope he figures it out somehow because from where I'm sitting next years team appearson paper at least to have the same glaring holes we had this year.

[Stretch]

As everybody has said, we had a subpar season in terms of the UK tradition, the somewhat grandiose expectations of many Wildcat fans AND the track record of Tubby Smith. It was not, however, the manifestation of anything evil and ominous shaking the program to its roots. If we had Randolph Morris in the lineup from Day One without the distracting will he/won't he NCAA soap opera, and if Thomas and Sims had not had their health problems of the kind that usually plague middle aged men (not big time college athletes), then I firmly believe we would have:

beaten Iowa and North Carolina;
been competitive and certainly not embarrassing at IU and Kansas;
begun the conference season with home wins against Vandy and Bama; and
picked up at least one more win along the way to finish the regular season a very respectable 24-6.

We would have been ranked in the Top 15 in America and been seeded in the 3-4 range for the NCAA Tournament and all but the most hard core of the Tubby bashers would have been back in the closet.

Next season, barring any major personnel failures, we should be much much better. Morris will be improved and will be with us all year. Crawford will be a two, Perry can be a three and we won't have to hide a slow 5'11" shooting guard on defense. We can substitute on the wings with long 6'5" players in Jasper and Meeks, not just the 6'2" walk-on Ravi Moss; and for a change we will have a quick and mobile shot-blocking presence inside with Stevenson. That same 24-6 is VERY doable next season.

[DCWildcat]

allday wrote: DCWildcat wrote: bluegrassking wrote
Sarcasm is fun.

Man, it sucks to be a fan of a team that's been to 4 elite 8's and won a national championship since 1998, and has the 3rd highest winning percentage of any team in country. God, I hate that so much. Ok here is some sarcasm for you since you love it so much.I love being a fan of a team that was considered the teams of the 90's that is turning into the also ran of the 00's. I love being a fan of a team that lacks effort.I love being a fan of a team that has to depend on marginal players turning into superstars as we all know that happens so often. HMMM i can remember that happening to lets see.. Chuck Hayes.. well thats one...I love being a fan of a team that once was FEARED.I love being a fan of a team that has a selfish star player that doesn't care how bad it looks to drive around in a $75,000 SUV that belongs to a former player here. Is that enough sacrcasm for you???


As long as your argument is based around emotion, you will never make any progress. Close-mindedness may make you feel more secure in your beliefs, but it doesn't make them correct.

Give me a solid, logical, cogent argument, rather than just spewing your anger and we can have a solid debate. So far, you've utterly failed to debunk what I've said. What little facts you have don't necessitate your conclusion.

I'm sorry you have to resort to anger to get your point across.

[blueheretic]

What shape? We ain't in no stinkin' shape. Get outta here...

[Lost Highway]

blueheretic wrote: What shape? We ain't in no stinkin' shape. Get outta here...
Kentucky beat UL. That makes it wonderful for many of the Big Blue. The Cards fell to theWildcats........

Who needs a Final Four if you can beat Little Ricky

[wildcatdon]

topcat,tubby should have recruited better and then we would not have had to worry if kelenna and morris werent back..we should have had quality backups on our team and not what we have now..

the only thing we can do is wait and see..no other way around it..but you people that are satisfied with this type of season,just sit back and relax because this is all you are going to get,or maybe worse..your low expectations continually amaze me..

[blueheretic]

wildcatdon wrote: topcat,tubby should have recruited better and then we would not have had to worry if kelenna and morris werent back..we should have had quality backups on our team and not what we have now..

the only thing we can do is wait and see..no other way around it..but you people that are satisfied with this type of season,just sit back and relax because this is all you are going to get,or maybe worse..your low expectations continually amaze me..



KAZ's replacement was already here. Joe Crawford.

What is missing and has been missing is a PF? Even Hayes was a PF in a SF Body. Hayes was a basically a heavy weight rebounding/blockingSF with no outside shot.

Tubby has never had a year since he started recruiting that UK had 5 athletes playing in position.

Always someone playing outside of their comfort zone.

Can the man plan? The betting man says no.

[DCWildcat]

wildcatdon wrote: just sit back and relax because this is all you are going to get,or maybe worse..your low expectations continually amaze me..

It's a horrible mischaracterization of the pro-Tubby side to say they have "low expectations." It's absurd to think that we expect to have a long string of years like this past one.

We were inches away from a final four last year. Is it ok to have a down year every once in a while? Of course. With the small edges coaches have to work with, combined with variance and unforeseeable/uncontrollable events, it's impossible to have a great year every year. I want the best out of my cats just as much as the next man--I just don't go ape**** when we slide down a notch after a great season.

There's a huge difference between having low expectations and having realistic ones. We may be Kentucky, but we can't win them all. So I'm not going to jump all over Tubby for failing to get us to the final four since '98 because frankly, he's gotten us damn close time and time again.

[poodoo]

wildcatdon wrote:

the only thing we can do is wait and see..no other way around it..but you people that are satisfied with this type of season,just sit back and relax because this is all you are going to get,or maybe worse..your low expectations continually amaze me..



I am being sincere. Who is satisfied with this season we had this year? Who could possiblybe satisfied with this most disappointing season? Too, who has low expectations for UK basketball?I guess I have missed something. Who are "you people"?

As I said in my post, along with others, I feel that we must "wait and see" what next season brings. At this moment we have had one subpar, "bad" season for UK basketball. Too, although we played much better late in the season, how we had played earlier put us in a bad position in the NCAA Tourney at an eight seed. That does not mean the program is in bad shape. We'll see. Meanwhile I am hoping for the best. :)

[Will Lavender]

wildcatdon wrote: topcat,tubby should have recruited better and then we would not have had to worry if kelenna and morris werent back..we should have had quality backups on our team and not what we have now..

the only thing we can do is wait and see..no other way around it..but you people that are satisfied with this type of season,just sit back and relax because this is all you are going to get,or maybe worse..your low expectations continually amaze me..

First, who's satisfied with this season?

And second, what do you base your "this is all you are going to get" point on? How many other 13-loss, second-round-in-the-NCAA-Tournament-exit seasons has Tubby Smith had, exactly?

[blueheretic]

Will Lavender wrote:
First, who's satisfied with this season?

And second, what do you base your "this is all you are going to get" point on? How many other 13-loss, second-round-in-the-NCAA-Tournament-exit seasons has Tubby Smith had, exactly?



I will not seek them out. Not worth my time. But I recall reading several posters saying that there is nothing wrong with this type of season.

You're last sentence/question seems to imply that it is ok that Tubby had this type of season once.

I would disagree with that.

This type of year should never be acceptable at UK. Ever. Never.

Never ever ever.

The TLT nickname should be an impossibility at UK.

Team Turmoil should be not have been acceptable.

The combination of the 3 events should be a firing offense in my opinion.

Should be have a "down year" again next year. He should be shown the door.

Tubby clearly has UK heading in the wrong direction. This should not be so.



UK football would be happy to have an 8-4 season.



Try making that the standard at UF or OU or USC or one of those Football powers.

This is the same thing.

At least, I think it is...

[Will Lavender]

But I recall reading several posters saying that there is nothing wrong with this type of season.

Really? I have read this board every day since I registered in June. Never have I seen anybody post anything remotely like, "There's nothing wrong with this type of season."

Sounds to me like sensitivity on the part of the folks who don't like Tubby. One might say, "Tubby needs some time to make changes..." or whatever. That is construed, by people like wildcatdon who never post anything other than anti-Tubby screeds, as, "You people that are satisfied."

I think anytime there's something in a post that's NOT ultra-critical, some people stop reading and just assume that the poster is an "apologist" or a "loyalist."

What ever happened to the middle ground? Why can't someone admit that Tubby frigging sucked this year and he better get his *** in gear, but also say that he's done a good job at Kentucky and should get the benefit of the doubt?

Isn't there some in-between area that I can nestle in and still be objective?

[Houstoncat]

This program does have a problem or problems, for whatever reason we lose top flight PF prospects even though there is an obvious need and playing time. The staff is evidently not getting this across. We lack a long slasher type at the three. Perry has improved but frankly he's not the solution. Crawford has much potential at the two but he needs to play there. Bradley can be an effective point if he gets his shoot first mentality adjusted. I really think he can do that. Morris assuming he stays is solid especially if we have a big PF to take some pressure off. Then we need some support people to give 10-13 minutes a game. Carter has potential but he needs to hit the weights four hours a day, hit the track for two, and go to a big man camp and TS needs to play him.

Recruiting is the main problem, style will take care of itself if you win. coaches have to be able to communicate with players. I'm not sure this staff has been doing that certainly not the recruiting.

If these problems are not addressed immediately or measures taken to correct them, we will have a middle of the pack SEC team and that friends is unacceptable.

[skyknight1000]

I think what most fans, especially young fans that followed during the mid 90s, fail to understand is UK has had MANY stretches of down years and terrible seasons. We have gone through recruiting violations, losing seasons, average years, and so on. WE, like any of the greatest programs in history, are having times like everyone has faced. UCLA has blown out the record for championships, but then they went on for many years with no NCAA tourney bids, some crappy seasons, etc. UNC went on just a few years ago with more losses than wins.

Believe me, I broke a few remotes this season at our sloppy and no-heart play, but I also know we will always be fighting to the end each year. Even with what we consider as bad years recently, take our last 8 and compare it to the rest of the ELITE programs and you will find that there isn't to much of a gap. Yeah we didn't add to our 2nd place 8 championships, but heck, the odds are against us considering there have only been 7 in OVER 100 years of play! We were spoiled in 96, 97, and 98 and it caused all the teens and recent fans to think that should be how it is every year, but the fact is, ALMOST no one makes it to the finals in that kind of window.

GO KENTUCKY!

BJL wrote: we have got no power forward or weak side help and no relief for Morris...There has to be a really big lack of organization or the inability to recxruit the 3/4 spots and 5 for that matter....what a shame..UK is now in the pack and not at the top nor is it an elite program any more....I hope the bleeding stops soon

[trublu]

Excellent post SkyKnight:thumbup

Yes, we old fans have hung in there through the 20 year periods of no chamionship banners. We didn't give up then and we're not giving up now.

[graham51]

he's gotten us damn close time and time again.


To regurgitate and old old saying " close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades"

[DCWildcat]

graham51 wrote: he's gotten us damn close time and time again.


To regurgitate and old old saying " close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades"


To regurgitate from my stats professor,

"Variance sucks, man. It sucks."

[SunBaller]

graham51 wrote: he's gotten us damn close time and time again.


To regurgitate and old old saying " close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades"

" . . . and NUCLEAR WEAPONS"

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

bluegrassking wrote: CatFanInTheBathtub wrote: Not to bring up old sheist but looking through somepast threads I was involved in I came across this and thought it applied well to whatever situation we are in right now. I also noticed that I got some replies that I had not noticed before where people thought I was dreaming to think that we would actually make the ncaa tournament and that we would **gasp** ...be a top 10 team next year. It got me thinking about how things went after this thread, which was right after ut took us down in Rupp. As you know, we went on to drop one at Vandy four days later to reach what I have described as the lowest of low points this season. Then, Tubby benched the attitudes and we started winning again. In fact, if you look at what we did since that point, in relation to how the entire ncaa has done...we looked pretty damn good.

After Feb. 11, we had 7 wins and 4 losses

wins included south car, alabama, and uab

losses were to LSU (reached final four), uf (reached final four),

south car (NIT runner up or champ) and uconn (reached elite eight)



in case it matters, the lsu and uconn games were, of course,down to the wire, where we didn't necessarily get "outplayed"

By ourfinal game, I do indeed we were playing like a top ten team. No, I do not think we will be in the top ten to start06-07, due to our early exit, but will we get there and stay ?you'd have to say it's a very real possibility.



Wow! your right! The last third of the season we played on such a pace that we would only have lost about 12 games.

These negative Nellys are really confused, who cares if you can rarelybeat teams that last to their second game of the NCAA's, when you know you beat the NIT Championshipteam 2/3 times.

Nothing to hang your head about when your are 4th or 5th in your confrence and make the big dance!!!

I wish O wish, a mighty big wish, that the NCAA gave out banners for participation.

Show up against good teams and get your *** handed to you is the way to go!

Much preferable to being The Best is showing up and being decent!!!

OK RULES!!!!



wow

I haven't been around here for very long myself but I can tell you that your approach is old, boring, and makes me want to take a nap. Reeling off sarcasm is a good way to have your opinions disregarded too. If you must use it though, please at least come up with something new.

But since you're so mad that we weren't "The Best" this year, I've got some otheryears for you to whine about.

1939 to 1941

1943 to 1947

1950

1952 to 1957

1959 to 1965

1967 to 1974

1976, 1977

1979 to 1983

1985 to 1992

1994, 1995

These are all years since the ncaa tourn. started that we didn't even reach the final four.I know you'd probably complain about Tubby's bad years on your own so I won't even bring them up. That's 46 times in 58 years pre-tubby that we FAILED. I hate to bring this stuff up but I really think people like you need to realize that we as a program have not been as dominant as we'd like to think we've been. Pay a little attention to our history and you'll see that years like this have occured several times, but we've always climbed back to the top. If you folks could drop the satisfy me NOW attitude and show a little support maybe you'd make it a little easier for us to make that climb.

[poodoo]

Recruiting is the main problem, style will take care of itself if you win. coaches have to be able to communicate with players. I'm not sure this staff has been doing that certainly not the recruiting. QUOTE by Houstoncat

_______

FWIW, while Istill do not think this program is remotely in bad shape at this time, I will agree on the point you make here, Houstoncat. I think the staff has failed to communicate well with recruits (specifically power forwards) and definitely needs to changeitsapproach,and I also feel the coachesprobably need toimprove their communication skills with their players. Just my humble opinion on the matter.