question here about next year

[wildcatdon]

if coach brooks goes 7-5 next fall and we get to a bowl game,are you people that have been trashing him,going to say good job,lets keep getting better,or will you say he should have done that because the schedule set up for it? think about it because you cant have it both ways....i hope coach brooks succeeds royally and when he does,you who have expressed disdain can come get your dose of crow...served in 55 gal drums..

[ukbob]

If he goes 7-5, then he will be on my good side for sure. Then I would expect him to embellish on that record each year. I have said many times that it is a WIN WIN for all UK fans if Brooks succeeds.

If OTS goes to a Final Four next year or the year after, will you quit trashing him or will you say, good job getting us back, now keep it up.

My point is that we can criticize all we want, and we do, but the best thing for all fans is for our coaches to do a better job than what they are doing nstead of eunning in new ones when things get bumpy. I was not and am still not a big Brooks fan. I thought his hiring was weak and I think his coaching has been the same. However, it has been determined he will be given a chance to get it done at least one more year and I support that. I hope he kicks butt as I hope all of our coaches do.

Not interested in eating crow but I have problem being wrong either. I am interested in Bowl games and wins.

[T75]

ukbob wrote: If he goes 7-5, then he will be on my good side for sure. Then I would expect him to embellish on that record each year. I have said many times that it is a WIN WIN for all UK fans if Brooks succeeds.

If OTS goes to a Final Four next year or the year after, will you quit trashing him or will you say, good job getting us back, now keep it up.

My point is that we can criticize all we want, and we do, but the best thing for all fans is for our coaches to do a better job than what they are doing nstead of eunning in new ones when things get bumpy. I was not and am still not a big Brooks fan. I thought his hiring was weak and I think his coaching has been the same. However, it has been determined he will be given a chance to get it done at least one more year and I support that. I hope he kicks butt as I hope all of our coaches do.

Not interested in eating crow but I have problem being wrong either. I am interested in Bowl games and wins.

Bob, I fully agree with your comments. I didn't think the Brooks hire was a good one and I feel free to criticize, or alternately praise, our coaches when they get the job done--or don't. I do, however, remember that Tubbycouldn't have walked in when the program was on a higher note and Brooks, like Pitino, couldn't have joined UK at a worse time. Big difference.

I easily get excited--bout UK football in the spring---nearly always do. And am again this year. I'd be thrilled silly with a 7 - 5 season. That would mean a Music City invite I think and it would also mean that we won all the games we should expect to have a good shot at. Wouldn'trequire an upset of either UofL, Florida, LSU, Georgia or Tenn. But I could accept a loss to Ole Miss if we replaced it with a win over the Cards or Vols.

We only need a modicum of improvement to be able to achieve a 7-5 record--we actually have been close in so many games. This just might be the year that won't require any miracles to win 7 games. AT least we can always hope in the spring.

[Matt Dillon]

I'd take 6-6 and a bowl bid.

[The Old School JPS]

I don't think it's much different than if we were having this discussion in February 1993 instead of February 2006.

In 1993 Bill Curry was entering his 4th year after going 4-7, 3-8 and 4-7 (better than Brooks each year). The 1993 UK team went to the Peach Bowl but that didn't erase the poor job Curry had done for three years nor the fact that he wasn't a good coach (he went 1-10, 4-7 and 4-7 afterward).

The 1993 team didn't beat anyone with a winning record (though they did beat Ole Miss and LSU, either of whom would've gone to the Peach Bowl in place of UK had either game gone the other way). The 2006 schedule may offer the same thing, with Texas State, Central Michigan, Louisiana-Monroe, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss and Mississippi State not looking good entering the season.

I think Brooks ought to be judged on the job he does and that while wins might be the biggest factor in that I'm not sure I see a certain number as the magic number that means he's all of a sudden a good coach. If UK suffered a lot of injuries and lost very close games to UF, UGA, UT, LSU, USC and UL, couldn't that say more about Brooks (in a positive way) than, say, winning 7 games against weak teams but being blown out by every halfway decent team UK faced? Or if UK lost close but competitive games against the likes of USC but had some wins against the likes of UF, UGA or UT?

I hope UK goes 7-5 (or better) and bowling in 2006 but I still might not be convinced that Brooks is that good. Curry started out with three lousy years and a bowl game in his fourth season, so we know this doesn't prove someone is a good coach or is taking the program in the right direction.

I will say this though: any UK fan is going to enjoy the season more by going into it without the attitude of "Coach better win X number of games or else he should be fired this year". You may think it, but just put it out of mind and go enjoy the games. Just my $0.02. I was sick of Curry as it dragged on, but went to the games to enjoy football and cheer for UK, not to keep score against the coach. You don't have to be a fan of the coach to be a fan of the team.

[Caveman Catfan]

Would you have fired Curry after 1993?

In 1993, Curry's team won 6 andlost 6. Curry started the season by smashing Kent, 35-0. I think that is the kind of win fans expect against such a team. The Cats followed that game by a heartbreaking last second/final playloss in Lexington to Florida, 24-20. Indiana, a good team under Mallory I think, beat the Cats 24-8 in Bloomington. UK then beat USC on the road and Ole Miss at home (21-7 and 21-0, respectively).


UK next beat LSU at home, 35-17, and lost a close one to UGA on the road, 28-33. The team rebounded from the close loss to the Dawgs with a 26-17 win in Starkville, but lost a close one to Vandy on the road, 7-12. Next was a non-conference squeeker over East Carolina, 6-3, and a blowout loss to UT, 0-48.

Finally, as we remember, UK lost another heartbreaker to Clemson 13-14 in the Peach Bowl.

Not knowing what followed, would anyone here have fired Curry after such a year? Losing close to UGA and UF? Winning 6 games?

I think most fans were enthused by the season and were looking forward to continued success. I don't think any reasonable AD would have fired Curry after that season. Without the aid of a crystal ball, if Brooks has a season like that next year, he should be retained.

[The Old School JPS]

No, or at least I should say I know I didn't think so at the time. Like many here with the current coach I think I'd have been pleased with the season but remained unconvinced he was the best man available for the job but, no,I would not have advocated firing him at the close of that season.


But after the 1-10 1994 season when he had one decent season and four bad ones, I think it was obvious to everyone (except C.M. Newton I guess) that he wasn't the one. And I think after his first three seasons that was obvious too. But the fact of it is, at UK, you conclude a season with a bowl game, the fans will be rightfully happy for the time being. Getting to one doesn't entitle one to job security indefinitely (see Curci, Curry, Mumme) but to almost all fans will signal a successful season. I think any time a season at UK concludes with a bowl game, fans will be fine with it.

Side note: that 1993 Indiana team you mentioned was very good, and ran all over UK; the game was much more lopsided than the score indicated. It was the kind of overwhelming loss that sometimes has demoralized UK teams for the remainder of a season and easily could've done so that year, especially coming right after the end of game loss to Florida. Uncharacteristically UK responded by beating South Carolina on a nationally televised ESPN Thursday night game and then shutting outwhat was at the time a ranked Ole Miss team one week after the Rebels beat Georgia by 17. I wish I knew why that particular UK squad kept it together where others came apart (like the following season, for instance).

[wildcatdon]

these threads are funny..just for discussion but its amazing that my original question really didnt get answered maybe excpet for bob..oh well

[The Old School JPS]

I guess I disagree with the premise of the question because I don't see why a fan can't say, if Coach Brooks goes 7-5 next fall and we get to a bowl game, both"good job, lets keep getting better" but also that"he should have done that because the schedule set up for it".

Beating all the bad teams on the schedule would be an improvement in itself, as would a bowl game; why should fans not expect UK to beat six weaklings but also to keep getting better? Six wins would not be an awe-inspiring accomplishment with this schedule, but it would be enough to keep most fans content.

[Caveman Catfan]

wildcatdon wrote: these threads are funny..just for discussion but its amazing that my original question really didnt get answered maybe excpet for bob..oh well


LOL

Well, a thread is simply a conversation. Once started, it will go where it will go.

[Caveman Catfan]

If Brooks had a winning season next year and followed it the next with a 3 or 4 win season, I would say that something was amiss and that he should be back on the hot seat, perhaps fired, depending on the circumstances.

One major difference between Curry and Brooks is that Brooks sees the necessity of trying to maintain continuity in a staff. He also has replaced his first OC with one that maintained the same general offense. Curry would bounce around between schemes depending on his OC, as if recruiting and offensive schemes are not intimately related.

That difference, I think, should mean better things if Brooks can right the ship.

[MurphyLee]

Caveman Catfan wrote: If Brooks had a winning season next year and followed it the next with a 3 or 4 win season, I would say that something was amiss and that he should be back on the hot seat, perhaps fired, depending on the circumstances.

One major difference between Curry and Brooks is that Brooks sees the necessity of trying to maintain continuity in a staff. He also has replaced his first OC with one that maintained the same general offense. Curry would bounce around between schemes depending on his OC, as if recruiting and offensive schemes are not intimately related.

That difference, I think, should mean better things if Brooks can right the ship.
Curry didn't even wait between seasons to change the offense.He actually changed it for that Peach Bowl game.He used what was supposed to resemble a Fl St offense for that game and implied that it would be in place the next season.We never saw that offense again.

[poodoo]

If UK suffered a lot of injuries and lost very close games to UF, UGA, UT, LSU, USC and UL, couldn't that say more about Brooks (in a positive way) than, say, winning 7 games against weak teams but being blown out by every halfway decent team UK faced?QUOTE by JPS

______________

JPS, thanks! :)Seriously, that has been my answer every time folks want us to draw a line in the sand in regard to how many games this team must win next season, such as in the thread about the number FIVE.

Too, I agree we fans just need to try to enjoy the season. The only reason I worry about a number of wins is that I would love for this team to get six wins and qualify for a bowl. I would love to see this staff recruiting with that advantage, as it has done sowell under adverse conditions,and I would love for our guys to get that extra practice bowl games allow. In relation to whether the staff is retained, I feel it will be based on both the number of wins and how the team performs in games it loses.

Most of all, I just want this program to get to go BOWLING! Yes, too, it would be nice for the coaching staff to be rewarded for its hard work and successful recruiting. We'll see. :)

[RCS]

The difference is that the 93 UK team was very SR heavy. If this team goes to a bowl game it should be an excellent sign of things to come since we are still so young. Most of the OL would be back, all the RBs, all the QBs, all but Burton at WR, and most of the D. It is a double edged sword though. If they had succes this year it would really point to future success more than Curry's year did, but if they followed it up with a bad season it would look even worse. Curry had a built in excuse (though nothing excuses a 1-10 season), Brooks would not. He would have most of the team back and if they did not at least equal their previous season it would be very hard to argue that the program is moving in the right direction.

JPS answered your question, just not the answer you were looking for when you ask it. If UK goes 7-5 I will be very happy, but that is not the same as saying I was wrong about Brooks. If he wins 7+ the next few seasons I do not think anyone will doubt he was the right choice. One season beating mediocure teams would not necessarily do that.

I say if he gets to 7 wins by beating UT, UF or UGA, it is a much bigger deal than if he does not.

[boomdaddy]

The fans, myself included, will all be satisfied with 6 wins and a bowl. Looking at the recent past, and coming off the probation years and last season's injuries, 6 wins and a bowl is the make or break mark. The coaching staff, on paper, is very impressive. The staff is getting paid very well to stay put. Now, they just need to produce some wins. This is the year to show improvement.

Also, the season after next year's expectation is to keep winning at least 6 wins a year to be bowl elligible. Not only do bowl games give the progam more notariety, but it allows the team to get more practice time in, that helps with the play of next seasons team.

Deep down, all any fan wants to see is a team that competes and produces wins. You can compare how nice or nasty a coach may be in person, but the bottom line of a coach's worth is in the won/loss column. Take Spurrier, for example, people rant about his superior attitude, but he is winning at USC. So, if Brooks wins, I am in his corner. If he loses, I will support the team, but will be screaming for a coaching change.

[johnkyblue]

RCS wrote: Curry had a built in excuse [in the loss of seniors from the 2003 season] (though nothing excuses a 1-10 season), Brooks would not.
There was also the Trent DiGuiro (sp?) thing. That messed them up real bad in the head.

[BigblueDrew]

wildcatdon wrote: if coach brooks goes 7-5 next fall and we get to a bowl game,are you people that have been trashing him,going to say good job,lets keep getting better,or will you say he should have done that because the schedule set up for it? think about it because you cant have it both ways....i hope coach brooks succeeds royally and when he does,you who have expressed disdain can come get your dose of crow...served in 55 gal drums..There are MANY UK fans that will NEVER accept Rich Brooks IMO. They will be alot less conspicious and much easier to tune out IMO if we go to a bowl. I would personally enjoy seeing thier discomfort, as listening to them whine and cry the last 3 years has made me plenty uncomfortable.

[Matt Dillon]

BigblueDrew wrote: wildcatdon wrote: if coach brooks goes 7-5 next fall and we get to a bowl game,are you people that have been trashing him,going to say good job,lets keep getting better,or will you say he should have done that because the schedule set up for it? think about it because you cant have it both ways....i hope coach brooks succeeds royally and when he does,you who have expressed disdain can come get your dose of crow...served in 55 gal drums..There are MANY UK fans that will NEVER accept Rich Brooks IMO. They will be alot less conspicious and much easier to tune out IMO if we go to a bowl. I would personally enjoy seeing thier discomfort, as listening to them whine and cry the last 3 years has made me plenty uncomfortable.


Great post BigblueDrew. I feel the exact same way.

[gerntz]

Since I haven't been trashing RB, can't respond.

[poodoo]

gerntz wrote: Since I haven't been trashing RB, can't respond.

I hear you, gerntz. :DI started not to respond, either, as I have certainly never "trashed" Rich Brooks.

Again, may the coaching staff be justly rewarded for all their hard work with a bowl appearance this coming season. To be honest, Ihappen tothink they deserve a little good luck this season, for a change. May it happen! :)

[Matt Dillon]

I've taken a lot of flak for being a staunch support of coach Brooks. Not necessarily the man or his methods, but I felt heshould be given adequate time to overcome the mess he inherited. I feel he's been here long enough that, given the '06 schedule andbarring another rash of serious injuries or some other unforseen catastrophy, we should win at least six games this season. If not, I'd be in favor of a new coach.

[T75]

poodoo wrote: Most of all, I just want this program to get to go BOWLING! Yes, too, it would be nice for the coaching staff to be rewarded for its hard work and successful recruiting. We'll see. :)
With a young team like we've had every year lately, it's impossible to estimate how much help that extra 4 - 6 weeks of continuing work between the end of the season and a bowl game would help prepare for the follow year. It's a big edge indeed! IMO getting a bowl bid is a big part of getting over the hump--no matter what bowl. Also, since all the bowls are televised these days, it could only help in the minds of some borderline recruits--especially if we do well.