Uk's All Time Top 5 point gaurds

[Sticeman]

All this talk about Point Gaurds got me thinking about all the great point gaurds of the past. So I started trying to rank the top 5 all time in Uk history. This is what I came up with, now I only go back to the 80's so some of you older guys will be able to give a little better perspective.

1.Kyle Macy( 1st team All-american)
2.Tony Delk (1st team All-american)
3.Dicky Beal( My personal favorite)
4.Wayne Turner
5.Sean Woods

[DCWildcat]

I'm a youngster and so I only really saw Turner and Delk from that list.

I think Jasper will be on that list before he's all done at UK, fwiw.

Interestingly, those are some great players but this position has not been as strong at UK as others have been.

[CaliUKFan]

a noticeable generational gap (unfortunately I never saw the past greats so it would be a bit superficial to rank them...with that being said I understand that this list is flawed)

So, i'll just list the best that i've seen

#1. Tony Delk
#2. Travis Ford
#3. Wayne Turner
#4. Rajon Rondo
#5. Saul Smith or J.P. Blevins (lol)

[Littlemeyer]

I don't recall the Delk-as-PG experiment turning out as well as some of you. I don't think I can put him in my (again, age-biased) top-five.

1) Wayne Turner
2) Travis Ford
3) Dicky Beal
4) Rajon Rondo
5) Cliff Hawkins / Sean Woods (tie) (seriously. I tallied the votes, and they came out even.)

[KYFaninColorado]

1) Kyle Macy
2) Dirk Minniefield
3) Wayne Turner
4) Anthony Epps
5) Rajon Rondo

[rickdacatkilla]

why no mention of this cat...??


http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Epps_Anthony.html

[WildcatRick]

Davender, Minniefield, Macy, Turner and Beal

[MurphyLee]

why no mention of this cat...??


http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Epps_Anthony.html

I was wondering the same thing as I was doing my list.How quickly we forget I guess.

1.Kyle Macy
2.Travis Ford
3.Wayne Turner
4.Anthony Epps
5A.Cliff Hawkins
5B.Dickie Beal
5C.Ed Davender

BTW Tony Delk only played PG for about a quarter of his freshman year before Pitino realized it was a mistake.

[Sticeman]

I was wondering the same thing as I was doing my list.How quickly we forget I guess.

1.Kyle Macy
2.Travis Ford
3.Wayne Turner
4.Anthony Epps
5A.Cliff Hawkins
5B.Dickie Beal
5C.Ed Davender

BTW Tony Delk only played PG for about a quarter of his freshman year before Pitino realized it was a mistake.


I know i went back and forth on Delk, and Epps. Delk did barely play the Point but that is his original position and Epps would be my replacement for him if I had a 5A

[Will Lavender]

Of those I've personally seen.

1. Turner
2. Davender
3. Epps
4. Hawkins
5a. Harden
5b. Fitch

[catman4]

1.Macy
2.Davender
3.Ford
4.Minniefield
5.Harden

[BamaCat86]

Hard to leave any of these guys off the list....

A long line of quality guys who could delivered the "ROCK".

1. Macy
2. Minniefield
3. Beal
4. Harden
5. Davender
6. Woods
7. Ford
8. Epps
9. Turner
10. Hawkins
11. Fitch
12. Sparks
13. Rondo
14. ??????

Of course there are many more who played before Macy who deserve to be on any list.

[CatClaws1]

My top five is
1. Macy-
2.Turner
3.Epps- One of my favorite UK player ever
4.Rondo
5.Hawkins

[Rockober]

1. Turner-3 National Championship games and a Elite 8 (one of the most under rated point guards)
2. Macy
3. Davender
4. Minnefield
5A Harden
5B Epps

[Terry L. Wildcat]

Ralph Beard
Kyle Macy
Tommy Kron
Wayne Turner
Dirk Minnifield

[DCWildcat]

Glad Beard gets mentioned. Everything I've read about him suggests that he was one of Kentucky's greatest pound-for-pound.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

Glad Beard gets mentioned. Everything I've read about him suggests that he was one of Kentucky's greatest pound-for-pound.

I never got to see him play but from what I have read about him I would put him first...the other four I had the pleasure of seeing play.

[jpay]

Kyle Macy, Anthony Epps, Larry Johnson, Ed Davender, Wayne Turner.....

[Sticeman]

Ralph Beard
Kyle Macy
Tommy Kron
Wayne Turner
Dirk Minnifield

I was waiting for your list I knew you would have some good insight.

[Catdaddy]

Just running the show, my list is

#1-Kyle Macy
#2-Dirk Minnifield
#3-Roger Harden
#4-Travis Ford
#5-Sean Woods
tie #5- Wayne Turner

[WildcatRick]

No doubt Beard belongs at or near the top of the list. I just left him off because I never saw him play. Wah Wah Jones had some great things to say about Ralph Beard. Definitely one of UK's finest!!

[ukwebfan]

Minniefield, Davender, Macy, Beard, Turner

[bigkyfan2007]

wow i cant believe none of you have rondo as number 1 although im only 18 so i havent seen macey play but i think rondo even though he only played two years and wasnt a great shooter he was by far the most talented point gaurd ive ever seen since i was born.... toney delk was a sg not a pg............epps was the pg

[BrassowFan]

IMO Epps has to be in the top 5. Pitino tried several times to push the guy aside in favor of Turner but it was clear that the '96 team belonged to Epps and despite the great talent at other positions, IMO Epps was the reason that we were able to beat UMass and win the title.

[KYISSUPREME]

I was wondering the same thing as I was doing my list.How quickly we forget I guess.

1.Kyle Macy
2.Travis Ford
3.Wayne Turner
4.Anthony Epps
5A.Cliff Hawkins
5B.Dickie Beal
5C.Ed Davender

BTW Tony Delk only played PG for about a quarter of his freshman year before Pitino realized it was a mistake.

I believe the experiment was in Tony's senior year. It was an attempt by Pitino to get Tony more NBA attention. With his lack of size, RP thought Tony needed to be a point in the NBA. The experiment lasted maybe three games. The loss to UMass sealed his doom at point. That's to the best of my memory. I have seen Fitch on some peoples lists as well. I don't remember him ever playing point. Maybe in a pinch. Not that it matters, but some are confusing our pg's and sg's. Not trying to be Mr. Knowitall. Just the way I remember it. :)

[Littlemeyer]

I have seen Fitch on some peoples lists as well. I don't remember him ever playing point. Maybe in a pinch. Not that it matters, but some are confusing our pg's and sg's. Not trying to be Mr. Knowitall. Just the way I remember it. :)

Fitch started at point for most every game during the 2003 season. Hawkins was the 6th man that year.

Shamefully, I can't recall if it was Fitch or Hawkins who started at the point in '04. :icon_redface: (95% of me is pretty sure it was Hawkins.)

[BlueNeck]

1.) Jai Lucus (SR year)
2.) Jai Lucus (JR year)
3.) Jai Lucus (SO year)
4.) Jai Lucus (FR year)
5.) JAI JAI JAI

[FCFS82]

Yeah, I am a younger Cat, so basically a top five list would be pointless because it would be essentially from the 90's on, but I would end my list at one player, Wayne Turner. IMO, he won the 1998 Duke game by taking over and schooling Wojo. A lot of other Cats hit big shots down the stretch in that game but because Wojo or Avery couldn't drive past him, Duke had to settle for a ton of bad shots.

[Will Lavender]

I have seen Fitch on some peoples lists as well. I don't remember him ever playing point. Maybe in a pinch. Not that it matters, but some are confusing our pg's and sg's. Not trying to be Mr. Knowitall. Just the way I remember it. :)

Fitch was the point guard of the Suffocats.

Hawkins was suspended because of academics to start the season, if I remember correctly, and Tubby put Fitch at the point. He did a very fine job, and in some ways was even better than Cliff Hawkins.

[BlueNeck]

Yeah, I am a younger Cat, so basically a top five list would be pointless because it would be essentially from the 90's on, but I would end my list at one player, Wayne Turner. IMO, he won the 1998 Duke game by taking over and schooling Wojo. A lot of other Cats hit big shots down the stretch in that game but because Wojo or Avery couldn't drive past him, Duke had to settle for a ton of bad shots.


Hey...Wayne was good but....SCHOOLING WOJO is not a hard task.

[howieg]

I can only speak of the ones I have seen since 75. I have seen Rondo's name on this list. I am sorry there is no way he sniffs this list. He may have been one of the most talented, but no way was he one of our best points guards ever, let alone the last 30 years.

1. Kyle Macy - not even close
2. Dirk Minniefield
3. Jimmy Dan Connor
4. Wayne Turner
5. Anthony Epps

[Wildcat Larry]

Ralph Beard
Kyle Macy
Tommy Kron
Wayne Turner
Dirk Minnifield
I like that list, too, Terry. However, for the sake of discussion, I think I might trade Mike Casey for Tommy Kron. I liked Kron alot, but I just think Casey was a little more proficient in ball control and distributing the ball. While Kron was the point guard, Larry Conley was the ball distributer and passer on that team. Kron, at 6'5" was a very big point guard for that era and could do a lot simply from being taller than the opposition.

The car wreck that put Casey out of commission for a year certainly was a tragedy and slowed him down a step or two when he came back for his senior season. That also made him lose the chemistry with his classmates .... Issel and Pratt, who had graduated while he was healing.

[RaleighCat]

Since '78:

Turner
Macy
Minnifield
Epps
Davender/Hawkins (tie)

[teamchemistry09]

I would say Delk Turner Epps Bogans Hawkins. Rondo would have been first if he had stayed all 4 years. And again, Im a youngin so thats what Ive seen

[DCWildcat]

Did Bogans ever run point? I don't remember him doing it ever but I could be wrong.

[teamchemistry09]

I thought he did for some time

[Sticeman]

I think Cliff Hawkins ran the point while Bogans was there

[MurphyLee]

I believe the experiment was in Tony's senior year. It was an attempt by Pitino to get Tony more NBA attention. With his lack of size, RP thought Tony needed to be a point in the NBA. The experiment lasted maybe three games. The loss to UMass sealed his doom at point. That's to the best of my memory. I have seen Fitch on some peoples lists as well. I don't remember him ever playing point. Maybe in a pinch. Not that it matters, but some are confusing our pg's and sg's. Not trying to be Mr. Knowitall. Just the way I remember it. :)

He may have tried that his senior season I don't really remember,I know Epps started most of the season.But what I'm talking about is that Delk was recruited as a PG,early into his freshman year Pitino realized that his value was going to be at SG and not at PG.He was very shaky wherever he lined up as a freshman and I'm not sure anybody realized the greatness to come.

[boomdaddy]

All this talk about Point Gaurds got me thinking about all the great point gaurds of the past. So I started trying to rank the top 5 all time in Uk history. This is what I came up with, now I only go back to the 80's so some of you older guys will be able to give a little better perspective.

1.Kyle Macy( 1st team All-american)
2.Tony Delk (1st team All-american)
3.Dicky Beal( My personal favorite)
4.Wayne Turner
5.Sean Woods


Sean Woods and Dicky Beal...are you kidding me? Tony Delk was a 2 guard.

Dirk Minniefield, Jimmy Dan Conner, and Larry Conley, and Louis Dampier come to mind.

[Sticeman]

Sean Woods and Dicky Beal...are you kidding me? Tony Delk was a 2 guard.

Dirk Minniefield, Jimmy Dan Conner, and Larry Conley, and Louis Dampier come to mind.

No need to bash my list, those are guys I grew up watching you line them up with any guy on your list and there will be no signifigant drop off at all.

That was the purpose of the post, for you and everyone else to post your list and im not going to disagree with you your list is just as good as anyone esle.

And as far as Delk he played the point off and on his whole career I consider him a point guard regardless of what anyone thinks.

[lribookend]

Sean Woods and Dicky Beal...are you kidding me? Tony Delk was a 2 guard.

Dirk Minniefield, Jimmy Dan Conner, and Larry Conley, and Louis Dampier come to mind.

I thought Jimmy Dan Conner played the 2 and 3 rather than the point? Seems like Mike Flynn and Jerry Hale played the point in that class.
Also, he wasn't a great point guard, but I enjoyed watching Ronnie Lyons play the point.

[Wildcat Larry]

There seems to be some disagreement as to who played point guard on a number of the older (pre-90's) UK teams. Having watched the Cats play from the early 60's, I don't think there was near the difference in the two guards on a team as there is today. I'm not sure that there was such a position as point guard on teams in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Sure, there were specific players that seemed to fit the mold of the point guards of today, but back then both guards were pretty adept at bringing the ball up the floor, penetrating and distributing the ball.

There are many teams in the Rupp era and into the Hall era that didn't have a player on the team that really fit the mold of today's definition of a point guard. For instance, when Dwight Anderson played opposite to Kyle Macy, both had point guard skills and made the team more versatile because of it.

Just a thought.

[Sticeman]

There seems to be some disagreement as to who played point guard on a number of the older (pre-90's) UK teams. Having watched the Cats play from the early 60's, I don't think there was near the difference in the two guards on a team as there is today. I'm not sure that there was such a position as point guard on teams in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Sure, there were specific players that seemed to fit the mold of the point guards of today, but back then both guards were pretty adept at bringing the ball up the floor, penetrating and distributing the ball.

There are many teams in the Rupp era and into the Hall era that didn't have a player on the team that really fit the mold of today's definition of a point guard. For instance, when Dwight Anderson played opposite to Kyle Macy, both had point guard skills and made the team more versatile because of it.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the insight Larry, thats what I was seeking when I posted this thread to get a better understanding from the guys who have been around longer than me on who were the best gaurds we have had.

[JohnJ]

There seems to be some disagreement as to who played point guard on a number of the older (pre-90's) UK teams. Having watched the Cats play from the early 60's, I don't think there was near the difference in the two guards on a team as there is today. I'm not sure that there was such a position as point guard on teams in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Sure, there were specific players that seemed to fit the mold of the point guards of today, but back then both guards were pretty adept at bringing the ball up the floor, penetrating and distributing the ball.

There are many teams in the Rupp era and into the Hall era that didn't have a player on the team that really fit the mold of today's definition of a point guard. For instance, when Dwight Anderson played opposite to Kyle Macy, both had point guard skills and made the team more versatile because of it.

Just a thought.

That is exactly what I was thinking. Dwight "The Blur" Anderson (capable of playing PG, 2G, and SF or 3rd G all well) and Rex Chapman (who could play both guard positions) played some wicked PG on brief occasions. You can't really get more talented than those two. I'll never be able to forget The Blur going 1-on-5 for several minutes against a Notre Dame team loaded with future pro players and whipping them all.

Kyle Macy was a 1st team NCAA All American, so I would probably have him #1 PG and Wayne Turner #2 based on accomplishments.

[KYISSUPREME]

Fitch started at point for most every game during the 2003 season. Hawkins was the 6th man that year.

Shamefully, I can't recall if it was Fitch or Hawkins who started at the point in '04. :icon_redface: (95% of me is pretty sure it was Hawkins.)

Fitch started the games Cliff was suspended for in '03. When Cliff came back, he was the starter. As he was in '04. In my mind, I guess, Fitch was the two guard to Cliff. Fitch did sub Cliff at point some as well, but was more of the two guard.

[bluegrassking]

In my time.

Turner
Macy
Epps
Rondo
Minniefield

Honorable mention to Woods.

Delk started like 2 games at point, backed up rarely and I can't see how anyone could say he was one of our top point guards. TD was a fantastic player but a weak to mediocre point. The guy was a straight up 2. I'd be almost willing to bet that in his time Dale Brown played more point than Delk.

[WildcatRick]

There seems to be some disagreement as to who played point guard on a number of the older (pre-90's) UK teams. Having watched the Cats play from the early 60's, I don't think there was near the difference in the two guards on a team as there is today. I'm not sure that there was such a position as point guard on teams in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Sure, there were specific players that seemed to fit the mold of the point guards of today, but back then both guards were pretty adept at bringing the ball up the floor, penetrating and distributing the ball.

There are many teams in the Rupp era and into the Hall era that didn't have a player on the team that really fit the mold of today's definition of a point guard. For instance, when Dwight Anderson played opposite to Kyle Macy, both had point guard skills and made the team more versatile because of it.

Just a thought.

Very good post!!:thumbup:

[Terry L. Wildcat]

I like that list, too, Terry. However, for the sake of discussion, I think I might trade Mike Casey for Tommy Kron. I liked Kron alot, but I just think Casey was a little more proficient in ball control and distributing the ball. While Kron was the point guard, Larry Conley was the ball distributer and passer on that team. Kron, at 6'5" was a very big point guard for that era and could do a lot simply from being taller than the opposition.

The car wreck that put Casey out of commission for a year certainly was a tragedy and slowed him down a step or two when he came back for his senior season. That also made him lose the chemistry with his classmates .... Issel and Pratt, who had graduated while he was healing.

I had to put Tommy Kron on the list because of my love for the Runts...help me here as I don't remember Mike Casey playing the point although he is one of the best all around UK players of my era...Larry Conley is the best "point forward" I remember at UK.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

I thought Jimmy Dan Conner played the 2 and 3 rather than the point? Seems like Mike Flynn and Jerry Hale played the point in that class.
Also, he wasn't a great point guard, but I enjoyed watching Ronnie Lyons play the point.

I'm a big Jimmy Dan Conner fan but you are correct, as Mike Flynn was the starting point guard...Ronnie Lyons drove me crazy because he was terrible on defense but you had to like him...IMHO Ronnie Lyons and Bob Tallent were two of the worst defensive guards I've ever seen at UK.

[Chaz]

There seems to be some disagreement as to who played point guard on a number of the older (pre-90's) UK teams. Having watched the Cats play from the early 60's, I don't think there was near the difference in the two guards on a team as there is today. I'm not sure that there was such a position as point guard on teams in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Sure, there were specific players that seemed to fit the mold of the point guards of today, but back then both guards were pretty adept at bringing the ball up the floor, penetrating and distributing the ball.

There are many teams in the Rupp era and into the Hall era that didn't have a player on the team that really fit the mold of today's definition of a point guard. For instance, when Dwight Anderson played opposite to Kyle Macy, both had point guard skills and made the team more versatile because of it.

Just a thought.
Larry, You are right in that guards in the pre 90's had less defined roles than what we have today. Today's point guard was yesteryears lead guard. Both guards handled the ball and ran plays, but usually one was usually the "lead" gurad. Same with forwards. There were no SF or PF,just forwards and a center. Even when you played with 3 guards and two forwards, they still labled them center, forward and guard. Shoot, I remember teams with a 6'1" center and 4 other 5'8"-5'11" "guards". :big_grin:

[lribookend]

I'm a big Jimmy Dan Conner fan but you are correct, as Mike Flynn was the starting point guard...Ronnie Lyons drove me crazy because he was terrible on defense but you had to like him...IMHO Ronnie Lyons and Bob Tallent were two of the worst defensive guards I've ever seen at UK.

Ronnie Lyon's definition of defense seemed to be limited to trying to steal the ball after it was passed to another player. (He did get some steals). But except for that, he was a defensive liability. His playing time came because he could pass the ball and shoot the long outside shot pretty well, which in today's game would have nearly always been a 3 point shot. At 5'10 (many said he was shorter than that), he couldn't defend anyone who moved faster than an oak tree. But I still enjoyed watching him run the break. I remember one time he was driving to the basket after a steal, and a taller defender was right behind him ready to block his layup. Lyons never looked back, but just dribbled the ball backwards to a teammate trailing the play (don't remember who it was), who sank the layup. It was the first time I had ever seen anyone do that in Memorial.
I agree with the earlier post who said the distinction between the guards was less pronounced back then. They didn't refer to them as point guards or shooting guards. Actually, the distinction is not as great today as many believe. Most coaches expect players to be able to play at least 2 positions, except for very short guards and very tall centers who tend to play only the 1 and the 5 positions. Jared Carter will probably only play center next year, but I look for everyone else to switch between at least 2 positions depending on the game situation.

[leroybyrd]

The first game I ever watched was the '78 championship, so I only go back to '78, but of those I have seen my list would go like this:

1. Macy ( I was only 7, 8 ,9 when he played but he was a total icon in Kentucky, every kid shot free throws like Macy for several years after he played and then Jim Master continued it becaues he copied Macy's style almost to the tee)
2. Turner - He was so key the way he could take over games with his penetration, was the consummate team player and a great, great defender.
3. Davender - I remember him as so solid and steady. Scored over 1600 points. I think people are sleeping on him a little, for those who think Rondo was a great PG, I wish you could have seen guys like Davender and Macy if you didn't.
4. Minniefield - Straight up baller and athlete at the PG is my memory of him.
5. After those four, probably Hawkins, but to me, he and Epps, Harden, Saul, etc were alla bout the same.

Kinda fun trippin down memory lane.