Same old Tubby

[ImForKy]

http://www.kentucky.com/232/story/126800.html (http://www.kentucky.com/232/story/126800.html) :shrug1:

[matt colvin]

"and sophomore-to-be Bryce Webster might not return, Smith acknowledged."We don't know about Bryce Webster," Smith said. "He's going to have to make a decision. ... We're trying to give him time to make the correct decision for everyone involved."
Smith declined to elaborate further."






Wonder what the background on this situation is? Not looking for a whizzing match, just curious if anyone knows why this player's future is up in the air.

[Will Lavender]

Wonder what the background on this situation is? Not looking for a whizzing match, just curious if anyone knows why this player's future is up in the air.

Found this from a couple months ago:

—Internet reports continue to indicate Bryce Webster's departure is imminent, but the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported Webster was enrolled in classes at Minnesota for the summer semester. His mother declined to speak to the paper.

Link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/home.htm)

Webster averaged 1 point and 1 rebound last year.

[Will Lavender]

Article doesn't surprise me at all. One of the reasons Tubby left for that particular job was to get out of the spotlight. He could've gotten quite a few jobs. (I'm not going to say he could've gotten any job he wanted; that's not true. But a lot of folks would've been glad to have him.) Minnesota is still a major program, but in terms of notoriety and visibility, it might be on the opposite end of the spectrum from UK.

Frankly, I'm surprised anybody at Minnesota is surprised. Did they not do their homework on Tubby or something?

[matt colvin]

Found this from a couple months ago:

—Internet reports continue to indicate Bryce Webster's departure is imminent, but the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported Webster was enrolled in classes at Minnesota for the summer semester. His mother declined to speak to the paper.

Link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/home.htm)

Webster averaged 1 point and 1 rebound last year.


Thanks Will :thumbup: That works for me.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

"and sophomore-to-be Bryce Webster might not return, Smith acknowledged."We don't know about Bryce Webster," Smith said. "He's going to have to make a decision. ... We're trying to give him time to make the correct decision for everyone involved."
Smith declined to elaborate further."






Wonder what the background on this situation is? Not looking for a whizzing match, just curious if anyone knows why this player's future is up in the air.

Ask - Bradley, Hogan, Anthony, Sims, Cote, Parker, Carruth, and on and on and on- Tubby always had an excuse for everyone leaving but not one for the extremly high amount that left. After awhile, those excuses fall on deaf ears. Good look Gophers.

[matt colvin]

Ask - Bradley, Hogan, Anthony, Sims, Cote, Parker, Carruth, and on and on and on- Tubby always had an excuse for everyone leaving but not one for the extremly high amount that left. After awhile, those excuses fall on deaf ears. Good look Gophers.


Well John, I guess I'll answer that (in this thread) what I thought and what I posted were, ummm, a little dissimilar ;). But I wasn't going to say it.

(And I'd give one of my internal organs to know what the Bradley story was, not a rumor, but the true story)

[Will Lavender]

Ask - Bradley, Hogan, Anthony, Sims, Cote, Parker, Carruth, and on and on and on- Tubby always had an excuse for everyone leaving but not one for the extremly high amount that left. After awhile, those excuses fall on deaf ears. Good look Gophers.

Looks like Webster was leaving before Tubby ever got there, though. Don't know if this can be blamed on him or not.

[Will Lavender]

Well John, I guess I'll answer that (in this thread) what I thought and what I posted were, ummm, a little dissimilar ;). But I wasn't going to say it.

(And I'd give one of my internal organs to know what the Bradley story was, not a rumor, but the true story)

The true story as I understand it was that the dad didn't like the fact that Pitino left, Tubby wanted to push Jamal Magloire into his position and Magloire was threatening to go pro, Bradley was from the Northeast -- and so it made perfect sense.

It shows my ignorance, I guess, but I was always shocked at how good Bradley turned out to be. He was a very fine college player, and I bet he made a lot of money in the League.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

Well John, I guess I'll answer that (in this thread) what I thought and what I posted were, ummm, a little dissimilar ;). But I wasn't going to say it.

(And I'd give one of my internal organs to know what the Bradley story was, not a rumor, but the true story)

I had always heard that Donna's intrusion into the team had much to do with Hogan and Bradley leaving, who knows? I can understand why Parker and Carruth left, acutally I can sit down and rationalize each departure but you have to look at the largest number of defections (by far) in UK's history and you can't defend Tubby on that. It can't be the practices, it's pretty common knowledge that Tub's practices were a cakewalks compared to Ricks' and will be compared to Billy G's, so what gives?

[matt colvin]

I had always heard that Donna's intrusion into the team had much to do with Hogan and Bradley leaving, who knows?


That was the rumor I heard too, but as you said, who knows?

And your new avatar just made me spill water on my shirt

[Will Lavender]

I had always heard that Donna's intrusion into the team had much to do with Hogan and Bradley leaving, who knows? I can understand why Parker and Carruth left, acutally I can sit down and rationalize each departure but you have to look at the largest number of defections (by far) in UK's history and you can't defend Tubby on that. It can't be the practices, it's pretty common knowledge that Tub's practices were a cakewalks compared to Ricks' and will be compared to Billy G's, so what gives?

I agree with most of that. The player defections were probably rooted in the same thing the recruiting woes were: Tubby just isn't a player's coach, IMO. He forgets his players' names, he seems to not get along with them at times, he let internal squabbles go on too long, etc. etc.

However, I've seen Tubby's practices. If they're "cakewalks," then God help us. It's basically three hours of constant motion.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

Looks like Webster was leaving before Tubby ever got there, though. Don't know if this can be blamed on him or not.

That's more than fair, Tubby hasn't been there long enough to say he's setting a pattern. It would be hypocritical to give Tubby a hard time for running off kids at and hope, as some have done, that BCG runs off some of the kids on the current UK squad- in hopes of having more schollys for 2008.B]

[TrueblueCATfan]

I had always heard that Donna's intrusion into the team had much to do with Hogan and Bradley leaving, who knows? I can understand why Parker and Carruth left, acutally I can sit down and rationalize each departure but you have to look at the largest number of defections (by far) in UK's history and you can't defend Tubby on that. It can't be the practices, it's pretty common knowledge that Tub's practices were a cakewalks compared to Ricks' and will be compared to Billy G's, so what gives?

wow..I can't imagine Donna having anything to do with players leaving..must have been a rumor

[BigBlue75]

It's a good article but all it tells me is that folks in Minnesota are just finding out what we Kentucky fans have known for quite some time. He was, as the article says, low-key while he was here and he's low key at Minnesota..does that really surprise anyone? I mean, really..

[kencat]

Article doesn't surprise me at all. One of the reasons Tubby left for that particular job was to get out of the spotlight. He could've gotten quite a few jobs. (I'm not going to say he could've gotten any job he wanted; that's not true. But a lot of folks would've been glad to have him.) Minnesota is still a major program, but in terms of notoriety and visibility, it might be on the opposite end of the spectrum from UK.

Frankly, I'm surprised anybody at Minnesota is surprised. Did they not do their homework on Tubby or something?

From spotlight to searchlight.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

I agree with most of that. The player defections were probably rooted in the same thing the recruiting woes were: Tubby just isn't a player's coach, IMO. He forgets his players' names, he seems to not get along with them at times, he let internal squabbles go on too long, etc. etc.

However, I've seen Tubby's practices. If they're "cakewalks," then God help us. It's basically three hours of constant motion.

I'm sure they were tough, but many have said that Rick's were of the most torture, I've heard Farmer and Pel talk about it many times.

[kencat]

I'm sure they were tough, but many have said that Rick's were of the most torture, I've heard Farmer and Pel talk about it many times.

I remember Farmer saying that he'd never run so much in his life. That he wasn't sure whether he was on the basketball team or the track team. And that was in pre-season conditioning.

[Grub]

I remember Farmer saying that he'd never run so much in his life. That he wasn't sure whether he was on the basketball team or the track team. And that was in pre-season conditioning.

Other than one year under Eddie Sutton, Richie didn't have much to compare it to. Richie played under Bobby Keith at Clay County. Coach Keith's conditioning program was predicated upon running in game type practice situations. Not trying to discredit your statement...I do remember Farmer saying that also.

[tcomnt2]

Showing my ignorance here but Bradley who?

[WildcatRick]

Showing my ignorance here but Bradley who?

Michael

[RaleighCat]

Back to Tubby Smith for a minute: I think MN fans are starting to realize that Tubby isn't a Visible Program Cheerleader. The comparison to MN's new football coach is interesting in terms of style. The football coach has apparantly been on the banquet circuit out in the state shaking hands. You know, FIRING UP THE FANBASE.

Tubby, OTOH, appears to be his old media/public-phobic self. And that's OK under two circumstances: 1) When he's winning a ton of games, and 2) When he's at a program with built-in fan participation. At MN he's missing both elements right now.

MN might just need a basketball coach who'll work the fans and media as hard as he does his recruits. Considering that roundball is probably 3rd most important on campus behind Football and Hockey. Throw in the NHL, NFL and NBA and MN Basketball is probably fighting for media time and fan dollars.

In those areas, Tubby isn't much of a fighter.

[KYISSUPREME]

Showing my ignorance here but Bradley who?

I believe that is Micheal Bradley, from the late 90's squads under Tubby. I always thought he had the makings to be a great one. So did Pitino. The handling of Bradley first made me doubt Coach Smith's managing of his players. He didn't seem to know what to do with Bradley. Villanova did.

EDIT: Sorry Rick. Didn't notice that you had already replied to this one. My apologies!

[Will Lavender]

I believe that is Micheal Bradley, from the late 90's squads under Tubby. I always thought he had the makings to be a great one. So did Pitino. The handling of Bradley first made me doubt Coach Smith's managing of his players. He didn't seem to know what to do with Bradley. Villanova did.

You could be right, who knows, but as I said above I always thought it had to do with Magloire. Jamaal and Bradley were going to play the same position, and I assumed that there was a meeting between the Bradleys and Tubby where they laid out their concerns about Michael's playing time. Tubby didn't tell them what they wanted to hear, maybe, and Tubby was good at telling people the wrong thing -- but at the time, we needed Magloire. Maybe Jamaal told Tubby he was going pro unless he got so many minutes, and Tubby promised him those minutes, which in turn caused a Bradley transfer.

That's all speculation, but I remember talking about all of this when the thing was going down.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

[QUOTE=JOHN BLUEBLOOD;304890]I had always heard that Donna's intrusion into the team had much to do with Hogan and Bradley leaving, who knows?

I had not hear this...could you explain...thanks.

[RP_McMurphy]

For stating that Tubby will be fired by 2012. Well nothing in his first four months has given me any indication that Tubby is at Minnesota for the long run. He will have a honeymoon period but when the 10 loss seasons pile up and the recruiting suffers he will either be fired or beat Minnesota to the punch. My biggest question is where he runs to after Minnesota?

[UKhoov]

Quick question. Bradley was a year behind Magloire correct?

[eman484]

For stating that Tubby will be fired by 2012. Well nothing in his first four months has given me any indication that Tubby is at Minnesota for the long run. He will have a honeymoon period but when the 10 loss seasons pile up and the recruiting suffers he will either be fired or beat Minnesota to the punch. My biggest question is where he runs to after Minnesota?

Well 20-10 and an NCAA berth at Minnesota will keep you around a lot longer than it would at Kentucky.

[scfcats]

Well 20-10 and an NCAA berth at Minnesota will keep you around a lot longer than it would at Kentucky.

Agreed, they would die if they had the last 9 seasons Kentucky had. Although at Minnesota it will be tougher to get 20 wins every year. Tubby will be there for a while regardless IMO.

[RP_McMurphy]

I don't think Minnesota is paying the money they are for those type of results. They want the Final Four like they had with Clem Haskins.

Well 20-10 and an NCAA berth at Minnesota will keep you around a lot longer than it would at Kentucky.

[RaleighCat]

Tubby Smith can go 20-10 in his sleep.

Which is exactly the problem- he seems to be half-asleep in terms of embracing the public and fanbase.

This article doesn't question Tubby's coaching ability. It questions his enthusiam and visibility.

[RCS]

I don't think Minnesota is paying the money they are for those type of results. They want the Final Four like they had with Clem Haskins.
I am sure they want it, but they won't demand it. Look at UK football. Rich Brooks could stay as long as he wanted if he went 8-4 every year with an occassional 9-10 win season. At UF or UGA that would get you fired. Same as UK and Minn. 22-10 and 2nd round of the NCAA will never, ever get him fired. That is easier said than done though. I do think he will get them back to respectability. The question will be whether anyone in Minn will notice. Winning helps, but you have to cheerlead at a place like that also or the fans will ignore you. That is what makes Bruce Pearl such a good addition for UT. He has had success, plus he has made UT BB fun. Tubbyball is rarely tons of fun.

[Swimmer4uk]

I think MN fans will love it if they go 20-10 every year. Different standards there and I think that lack of intensity among the fanbase is what he needs and is best suited to fufill. He is a good coach, just not a UK coach and that was proven.

It did surprise me that he still hasn't signed his contract and the admin is OK with that...

[84Cat]

I agree with most of that. The player defections were probably rooted in the same thing the recruiting woes were: Tubby just isn't a player's coach, IMO. He forgets his players' names, he seems to not get along with them at times, he let internal squabbles go on too long, etc. etc.

However, I've seen Tubby's practices. If they're "cakewalks," then God help us. It's basically three hours of constant motion.


I only saw two of his practices and they were cakewalks.

[DCWildcat]

Back to Tubby Smith for a minute: I think MN fans are starting to realize that Tubby isn't a Visible Program Cheerleader. The comparison to MN's new football coach is interesting in terms of style. The football coach has apparantly been on the banquet circuit out in the state shaking hands. You know, FIRING UP THE FANBASE.

Tubby, OTOH, appears to be his old media/public-phobic self. And that's OK under two circumstances: 1) When he's winning a ton of games, and 2) When he's at a program with built-in fan participation. At MN he's missing both elements right now.

MN might just need a basketball coach who'll work the fans and media as hard as he does his recruits. Considering that roundball is probably 3rd most important on campus behind Football and Hockey. Throw in the NHL, NFL and NBA and MN Basketball is probably fighting for media time and fan dollars.

In those areas, Tubby isn't much of a fighter.

Very good post and I agree.

As far as the practice thing goes, back in my playing days the intensity varied hugely from practice to practice. From the descriptions of their own practices that Dean Smith, Frank McGuire, Bob spear, and particularly John Wooden, the same goes for college as well. So it's probably impossible to judge one way or another without seeing dozens of them.

Overall, I would guess that Pitino's (from what I've read from Cameron Mills' book) and Billy G's (from his reputation) practices would be harder than Tubby's. Players have occasionally commented on the intensity of Tubby's practices, but certainly not with the same frequency of Pitino and Gillispie.

[BlueBalls]

From spotlight to searchlight.

Priceless!!!
Here is my take. Tubby WON'T consistently win 20 games at Minnesota. The lure of UK basketball tradition brought in just enough talent to win 20+ games at UK. Minnesota certainly doesn't have that allure and Tubby certainly doesn't have the fire to change it.
Minnesota needs a lot of intangible stuff. I don't see Tubby providing that. Tubby will find life in the Big 10 (or 11) VERY difficult.

[Will Lavender]

I only saw two of his practices and they were cakewalks.

Perhaps we have different ideas of what a cakewalk is. (I am, after all, pretty weak on the athletic front. My three-year-old could probably post me up.)

They stop for three water breaks in a three hour practice. The water breaks last 30 seconds. I can recite this because I have the practice guide they gave us at the coaches' clinic right here beside me.

This is obviously common for D1 practices. I realize that. But Tubby often got a bad, and unfair, rap for being soft on the conditioning front. I just don't think he recruited tremendous athletes consistently; you can condition all day and all night and if you don't have premier athletes, they're going to get outmatched. Notice that even after a year of Holsopple our guys were outmuscled and outquicked and outjumped much of the time.

A poster on another board, a guy who knows what he's talking about, said that he couldn't understand why Gillispie's conditioning was getting such play in the Kentucky media; he recounted a story that he had personal knowledge of where some of Tubby's players claimed they were going to quit the team because the conditioning was a nightmare.

[matt colvin]

Perhaps we have different ideas of what a cakewalk is. (I am, after all, pretty weak on the athletic front. My three-year-old could probably post me up.)

They stop for three water breaks in a three hour practice. The water breaks last 30 seconds. I can recite this because I have the practice guide they gave us at the coaches' clinic right here beside me.

This is obviously common for D1 practices. I realize that. But Tubby often got a bad, and unfair, rap for being soft on the conditioning front. I just don't think he recruited tremendous athletes consistently; you can condition all day and all night and if you don't have premier athletes, they're going to get outmatched. Notice that even after a year of Holsopple our guys were outmuscled and outquicked and outjumped much of the time.

A poster on another board, a guy who knows what he's talking about, said that he couldn't understand why Gillispie's conditioning was getting such play in the Kentucky media; he recounted a story that he had personal knowledge of where some of Tubby's players claimed they were going to quit the team because the conditioning was a nightmare.

Will, perhaps you addressed the matter in your own post.

You said, "he recounted a story that he had personal knowledge of where some of Tubby's players claimed they were going to quit the team because the conditioning was a nightmare."

To which you could say was because: "I just don't think he recruited tremendous athletes consistently; you can condition all day and all night and if you don't have premier athletes, they're going to get outmatched."

Gillispie will put even the premier athletes, which he will get, through all they want and then some.

I'd like to know who suggested they would quit the team due to the stringent workouts though. Lol, Shagari ???

[Will Lavender]

Will, perhaps you addressed the matter in your own post.

You said, "he recounted a story that he had personal knowledge of where some of Tubby's players claimed they were going to quit the team because the conditioning was a nightmare."

To which you could say was because: "I just don't think he recruited tremendous athletes consistently; you can condition all day and all night and if you don't have premier athletes, they're going to get outmatched."

Gillispie will put even the premier athletes, which he will get, through all they want and then some.

I'd like to know who suggested they would quit the team due to the stringent workouts though. Lol, Shagari ???

That comment was regarding the late '90s. And, as I said, this is a poster who knows what he's talking about. He's not like me: somebody who just posts his opinion. He is close to the situation, as they say.

But anyway, I agree that Gillispie will get the top players and then put them into a top-notch conditioning program. That's the thing: getting players who already have a wealth of power and agility. You can take an average boxer and train him like a beast 24/7, and he'll certainly be stronger than before--but he'll still be an average boxer.

[matt colvin]

I'd still like to know who said that (not suggesting you know and are not telling :p). That would really surprise me if they were players who'd played for Rick.

Anyways, I have a feeling Gillispie would tough to play for. I'm sure most D1 coaches aren't easy to play for. But here's the thing. You don't have to have fun during practice. You don't have to like the coach. You don't have to like you teammates.

You have to respect the coach. Not all of Tubby's players did that. I'm not going to give my opinion as to why (mostly because I don't know). You have to respect your teammates, and play within a system, as a unit. And you will have fun when everything culminates into the big win, when you make it to the end, and still have gas in the tank while the other team is dropping dead. When the 40 minutes of Heck is over, you'll appreciate what your coach put you through in practice, and understand why.

That's what I believe we'll see with Gillispie. Players might not like him, but they'll respect him. And they'll know what their goal is, and know how to reach it.

Finally, lol, they will reach it.