Not so fast,,,Tubby Bashers

[freethrow]

This is a link from the LHL. Sorry if it has been posted.
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/sports/colleges/university_of_kentucky/13978840.htm

[joneagin]

Good article...people are obsessed with certain phrases like "10 Loss season" "20 win season" and "Final Four" (where 3 of the teams end up at the same place as the other 61). People act like Tubbys lack of FFs means that he is so far below other UK coaches...As if his4 elite 8 apperances mean nothing.FFs mean nothing if you dont win it all.

[RaleighCat]

joneagin wrote: FFs mean nothing if you dont win it all.
You can't win the National Championship unless you play in the Final Four. And they do mean something even beyond that. FF's mean incredible media exposure nationally for an extra week. FF's mean you can showcase your program and success to recruits. FF's define a special level of success duringthe college basketball season. To me, Final Fours are the equivelent of "But these go to 11."

Also, it's not 10-loss seasons that drive me crazy about Tubby Smith. It'sTubby's inability to build on his positive momentum. One step forward- two steps back is no way to run an elite program. Think back to '03 and Bogans' Ankle and fast forward to today. One step forward, two steps back.

[Will Lavender]

RaleighCat wrote: joneagin wrote: FFs mean nothing if you dont win it all.
You can't win the National Championship unless you play in the Final Four. And they do mean something even beyond that. FF's mean incredible media exposure nationally for an extra week. FF's mean you can showcase your program and success to recruits. FF's define a special level of success duringthe college basketball season. To me, Final Fours are the equivelent of "But these go to 11."

Also, it's not 10-loss seasons that drive me crazy about Tubby Smith. It'sTubby's inability to build on his positive momentum. One step forward- two steps back is no way to run an elite program. Think back to '03 and Bogans' Ankle and fast forward to today. One step forward, two steps back.

I think the "steps back" happen to most every program. Duke may be the only exception to this rule, but even they went through a rough time in the mid-90s.

Roy Williams at Kansas had the best team in the country in '98. In 1999 they were a 6 seed. In 2000 they were on the bubble, barely got into the tournament, won their first round game in overtime, and then lost in the second round.

Louisville had a great year last year under Pitino and this year has been miserable.

It happens. I think the mark of a good coach is how the coach responds to the bad year. If a "step back" happens two years in a row, then there's a real problem. If the "step back" is isolated, then I think you can maybe say that that particular group of guys was not the right fit. If the step back is spread out over a couple of years, then you have to wonder if the coach is doing his job.

Tubby has had three steps back in his eight years at UK: 2000, 2002, 2006.

He followed up 2000 with a good run. We were the hottest team in the country in the second half of the season and made a good run at a 1 seed but got upset in the tourney. He followed 2002 with one of the best regular seasons in the history of the school.

The pressure is surely on for 2007. I don't think there's any question.

[HAMMERJACK]

RaleighCat wrote: joneagin wrote: FFs mean nothing if you dont win it all.
You can't win the National Championship unless you play in the Final Four. And they do mean something even beyond that. FF's mean incredible media exposure nationally for an extra week. FF's mean you can showcase your program and success to recruits. FF's define a special level of success duringthe college basketball season. To me, Final Fours are the equivelent of "But these go to 11."

Also, it's not 10-loss seasons that drive me crazy about Tubby Smith. It'sTubby's inability to build on his positive momentum. One step forward- two steps back is no way to run an elite program. Think back to '03 and Bogans' Ankle and fast forward to today. One step forward, two steps back.
A-freakin' men RC!!!!!!!!!!!

[joneagin]

RaleighCat wrote: joneagin wrote: FFs mean nothing if you dont win it all.
You can't win the National Championship unless you play in the Final Four. And they do mean something even beyond that. FF's mean incredible media exposure nationally for an extra week. FF's mean you can showcase your program and success to recruits. FF's define a special level of success duringthe college basketball season. To me, Final Fours are the equivelent of "But these go to 11."

Also, it's not 10-loss seasons that drive me crazy about Tubby Smith. It'sTubby's inability to build on his positive momentum. One step forward- two steps back is no way to run an elite program. Think back to '03 and Bogans' Ankle and fast forward to today. One step forward, two steps back.

I agree that it means something to the media, because they have built the FF up to earn money. And it does affect recruiting. However, the point is that it shouldnt be a measure of a coaches success. National Championships and the whole body of work over a season should be. People measure Tubby because he hasnt gone to a FF. I even have friends who say they would be happy with him if we could just go to the FF. My point is that Tubby has gone to 4 EE since he has been here but people act like he is a failure since he doesnt make the FF. And they shouldnt do that.

[blueheretic]

I think that a lack of Final Fours is but one factor in the criticism of Tubby Smith. This is a disingenuous argument. I have numerous complaints about Tubby's Tenure. He seems to lose control every 3rd year. He doesn't seem to be able to handle high level talent. At the very least, he has a lot of trouble with them. He can't seem to close the deal on recruits. He loses recruits in head to heads with Duke and UNC as if he is scared or something. He seems to have a lot of bad luck. He has too many ten loss seasons. He hasn't made it back to the Final Four with his own recruited and coached athletes. His offense isterrible unless the defense is great.The shooters he brings in seem to lose their touch. Freethrow shooting.

So if anyone who does not see Tubby Smith as infallible is a "Tubby Basher," what does that make those of you who think that he can do no wrong?

I mean we are speaking in absolutes here, correct?

Are you guys "Tubby Jock Riders?" "Tubby Butt Kissers?"

Why do you have to throw that stupid label out there? This and that label are weak arguments in my opinion.

[Buddah]

I think it is a question that should be asked, in twenty years of coaching roy williams has had what three or two ten loss season, coach k has had three or something, tubby in 9 years already has four, including one 9 loss season.. they are all legitmate questions. I have said ove and over, we have a good coach, but not an elite one.

I agree 100 percent, there is a huge segment of our fan base that if you don't see Tubby as infaillable, you do seem to get labeled, but labels can be applied for both sides.. hopefully some soul searching will be done in the off season,, to decide whether or not he wants that pressure anymore. I never posted them, but they are new tubby to the bobcat rumors, by seth davis, yes i know. plus more jay wright to uk rumors that have posted on another boards within the past few days, are they true, who knows ?

[Kentucky Jim]

Remember when Georgia Tech made it to the National Championship the year we was trying to sign Morris when he was thinking about GT? I like where he ended up. Having said that, I do think it helps recruiting, but it certainly doesn't affect it in a negative way.