Scenario that I hope for...

[Craig the Blueheart]

If UK is up huge early in the 3rd quarter, do you let Andre inflate his numbers for his Heisman campaign? A lot of the powerhouses allow their players to remain in the game until very late to make the score look more impressive to poll voters, and to inflate numbers. What does the nation think? Do you leave Andre in, or do you sit him late? If you sit him, at what point in the game would you do so?

I would let Hartline get a couple series of work if the score permits. I would let Woodson play nearly the entire game so that he can get the numbers he needs, and the team gets the attention that they perhaps deserve. This may sound too flamboyant for some fans' taste, but it is just the way I feel.

[gsb315]

If UK is up huge early in the 3rd quarter, do you let Andre inflate his numbers for his Heisman campaign? A lot of the powerhouses allow their players to remain in the game until very late to make the score look more impressive to poll voters, and to inflate numbers. What does the nation think? Do you leave Andre in, or do you sit him late? If you sit him, at what point in the game would you do so?

I would let Hartline get a couple series of work if the score permits. I would let Woodson play nearly the entire game so that he can get the numbers he needs, and the team gets the attention that they perhaps deserve. This may sound too flamboyant for some fans' taste, but it is just the way I feel.

I think you pull Andre after halftime when it's clear the game is in hand. No need to risk injury.

[lighthouse]

It's a gamble to leave him in, but we also have to consider the inexperience of our backups. It could be huge if they could some snaps.

[Brian McCat]

It's a gamble to leave him in, but we also have to consider the inexperience of our backups. It could be huge if they could some snaps.

I agree. André will have plenty of chances to inflate his numbers in other games.

[MudCat]

I'm going to say that if we're up by more than two or three scores by half, you pull Woodson, and get the back-ups some time. (Also, depending on how EKU is playing.)

I hate to say this, because I am one of the most optimistic fans, but unless Woodson throws for 60 TDs and less than 3 INTs, and UK goes 11-1 or 10-2, and wins the SEC East, and a BCS bowl, he's not going to win the Heismann.

It's not fair, but that's what it is, and I wouldn't want to run the risk of him blowing his knee or shoulder out in the 3rd or 4th quarter of a game UK is way up in, just to pad some stats.

That's just my opinion.

(Edited: I HOPE he has that kind of season, and that UK is that successful, but with the other Heismann candidates out there on teams like USC, LSU, etc., it's looooong uphill climb. Don't get me wrong, it's possible, but inflating stats against EKU isn't going to get it done was just what my point was in that post.)

[RCS]

I agree. André will have plenty of chances to inflate his numbers in other games.
Huge numbers won't do much good for Andre. Only wins against UT, LSU or UF will get him noticed for the Hiesman. Plus he is WAY too important to just leave out there to get stats. Add in our total inexperience at back up QB and it is a no brainer. I think if we are up 21+ Andre will sit the entire 4th quarter. If we are up 28+ at half I think he may sit most of the 3rd also. I sure hope that is the case. If UK is up big Andre will have pretty good numbers as it is. No need to try to get 500 yards.

[Craig the Blueheart]

It appears that I don't have the popular view here, but I think that these are the games that a lot of your Heisman hopefuls post huge numbers. I do not think Woodson should play the entire game, but it would be nice to see him put up over 300 yards.

[RCS]

It appears that I don't have the popular view here, but I think that these are the games that a lot of your Heisman hopefuls post huge numbers. I do not think Woodson should play the entire game, but it would be nice to see him put up over 300 yards.
The point of playing is for the team to succeed, not individual honors. Andre winning the hiesman is a super long shot. You can't plan your season or even one game around it. Our backup situation is bad. They need experience WAY more than Andre need another hundred yards passing to pad his stats. We have been lucky, knock on wood, to not really need a back up QB much around here, but if Andre goes down, we are screwed. Hartline needs every possible snap that we can prudently give him. I imagine Woodson would agree. I have absolutely no doubt Brooks agrees.
Woodsons mean as much to UK as any player in the nation means to there team IMO. UK taking the next step depends on his play. If he got hurt late in a game UK had a large lead in, it would be devistating and stupid.

[MudCat]

It appears that I don't have the popular view here, but I think that these are the games that a lot of your Heisman hopefuls post huge numbers. I do not think Woodson should play the entire game, but it would be nice to see him put up over 300 yards.

Don't get me wrong, I agree in principle with you, and I think (IMO, again) that UK will use this game to establish the run and pick their spots for passing. That's been the Brooks/Phillips M.O. thus far, and also, remember, you've got a dangerous Kent State team coming in the next week, and Louisville after that, so I don't think you're going to see a lot of razzle-dazzle.

I could be wrong, but I think the game plan (dumbed down to my language, of course) is "run the ball to set up the pass, pass effectively when it's there, PLAY DEFENSE, and don't get anyone hurt".

Again, maybe that's dumbed down a bit, but IMO, this is a unique opportunity to not have to open up the playbook (not that UK did totally in the past) with UL as the first game.

[Coldstream]

I would put in Hartline as well. The backup QB is a sore spot if you think about it. Hartline, Lentz and Fidler have practically zero snaps.

[Craig the Blueheart]

Don't get me wrong, I agree in principle with you, and I think (IMO, again) that UK will use this game to establish the run and pick their spots for passing. That's been the Brooks/Phillips M.O. thus far, and also, remember, you've got a dangerous Kent State team coming in the next week, and Louisville after that, so I don't think you're going to see a lot of razzle-dazzle.

I could be wrong, but I think the game plan (dumbed down to my language, of course) is "run the ball to set up the pass, pass effectively when it's there, PLAY DEFENSE, and don't get anyone hurt".

Again, maybe that's dumbed down a bit, but IMO, this is a unique opportunity to not have to open up the playbook (not that UK did totally in the past) with UL as the first game.

I agree with this entire assertion. You have to run to set up the pass in the SEC. In addition, we have a tremendous talent in Little, who makes it easier to set the pass up.

[SBCatMan]

Quote: "Hartline, Lentz and Fidler have practically zero snaps."

Actually, it is not "practically zero snaps," it is absolutely zero snaps.

I think this is an utter no-brainer. At the risk of sounding disrespectful to EKU, I think that if UK is up "safely" -- whatever that means -- you absolutely put in the reserves, not only at QB, but all over the place. I think the starters need a good two quarters, maybe two and a half, but then start building depth.

[Matt Dillon]

I think you pull Andre after halftime when it's clear the game is in hand. No need to risk injury.

Totally agree. Not just Andre, but empty the bench if possible.

[Catmaster]

If UK is up big at the half, Woodson should start the 3rd QTR. It should be 1 series and out. NEVER risk injury for stats. Remember M. Bush last year? As much as I would like to see Woodson get the trophy, I wouldn't want to see our year go down the tubes because of it. JMHO

[F4F]

CRB has built a classy program at UK. He is probably aching to not be able to get another shot a Petrino for the FG insult a few years ago.
EKU is a classy program and has been for decades.
The last "Numbers Coach" at UK is humping camels in the New Mexico desert. This is the first year without suffering from the lingering stench he left in Commonwealth Stadium.
Score a few more points than your opponent, congratulate him on his effort and competiveness, go to the house.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

If UK is up huge early in the 3rd quarter, do you let Andre inflate his numbers for his Heisman campaign? A lot of the powerhouses allow their players to remain in the game until very late to make the score look more impressive to poll voters, and to inflate numbers. What does the nation think? Do you leave Andre in, or do you sit him late? If you sit him, at what point in the game would you do so?

I would let Hartline get a couple series of work if the score permits. I would let Woodson play nearly the entire game so that he can get the numbers he needs, and the team gets the attention that they perhaps deserve. This may sound too flamboyant for some fans' taste, but it is just the way I feel.

I would let Hartline play for sure. I don't think Woodson can win the Heisman unless UK mad the SEC title game, UK just doesn't have the name of a Miami, Notre Dame or Florida in football. Hartline is an injury away from being the man.

[bleedbluelady]

Okay, I believe in this team as much as anybody. But, this whole discussion makes me nervous. We (the players) need to put EKU away in the first half before I feel comfortable discussing whether we need to empty the bench. Call me superstitious. That won't be the worst thing anybody ever called me.

[Matt Dillon]

If UK is up big at the half, Woodson should start the 3rd QTR. It should be 1 series and out. NEVER risk injury for stats. Remember M. Bush last year? As much as I would like to see Woodson get the trophy, I wouldn't want to see our year go down the tubes because of it. JMHO

Just curious as to why you would play Andre for one series in the third qtr. He could suffer a season ending injury on the first off. play of the third qtr. if you start him.

[pjquirk]

My initial thought was you get experience with the backups, but, stay with me on this thought...

Bigger numbers for Andre leads to more national media. More media makes recruiting easier. When recruits also can think "Hey, that's a school that I can get all of the exposure I need to get to the next level" recruiting gets another notch easier.

I'm all about doing what's best for the team, but in this case does getting additional media by hyping one player end up being better for the team the next 2-4 years than getting experience for backups this year???

[kyjohn]

I really hope Hartline and other new players get to play.A program is built by letting kids play,and hopefully all non redshirt players get in the game Saturday.

[gerntz]

Just curious as to why you would play Andre for one series in the third qtr. He could suffer a season ending injury on the first off. play of the third qtr. if you start him.

You could say that about any play anytime. The logical conclusion if you're worried about the 1st play of Q3 is to be worried the play before that & then the play before that till you don't play him at all.

[Craig the Blueheart]

My initial thought was you get experience with the backups, but, stay with me on this thought...

Bigger numbers for Andre leads to more national media. More media makes recruiting easier. When recruits also can think "Hey, that's a school that I can get all of the exposure I need to get to the next level" recruiting gets another notch easier.

I'm all about doing what's best for the team, but in this case does getting additional media by hyping one player end up being better for the team the next 2-4 years than getting experience for backups this year???

I think that it might. I think that by having this many NFL caliber players on one team helps out tremendously, and I think that if we have one of our kids up in New York City eating dinner with a couple of other Heisman candidates, it only help our image more.

[RCS]

I think that it might. I think that by having this many NFL caliber players on one team helps out tremendously, and I think that if we have one of our kids up in New York City eating dinner with a couple of other Heisman candidates, it only help our image more.
Winning draws recruits more than anything. Our best shot at winning is with Andre at QB for the whole year. Win games in the SEC and you will get noticed. Andre is already on everyone's radar so he doesn't need to pad stats to get noticed.

[Craig the Blueheart]

Winning draws recruits more than anything. Our best shot at winning is with Andre at QB for the whole year. Win games in the SEC and you will get noticed. Andre is already on everyone's radar so he doesn't need to pad stats to get noticed.

I don't disagree that having Andre for the full year is what is most important. I am not sure about winning being the most important factor for young kids anymore, however. Ten years ago, I might have agreed whole heartedly with that assertion. IMO, the mentality of "what can you do for me" wins out. Have we been the benefactor of that at UK recently? No. If an out of state top 10 QB is considering us, however, and they see that we are an average 5-win team, with a history of producing NFL caliber QB's, that recruit may lean our direction. Why do you think that Butch Davis has had such a tremendous amount of luck at UNC thus far? It is not because the program has won a lot of games lately. It is because the man is sitting in living rooms and telling them he has experience in getting kids to the NFL. In this day and age, that is probably what matters most to kids.

[Matt Dillon]

You could say that about any play anytime. The logical conclusion if you're worried about the 1st play of Q3 is to be worried the play before that & then the play before that till you don't play him at all.

Agreed, but the point I was trying to make is if you have a comfortable lead at the end of the first half, why play him at all in the second half?

[RCS]

I don't disagree that having Andre for the full year is what is most important. I am not sure about winning being the most important factor for young kids anymore, however. Ten years ago, I might have agreed whole heartedly with that assertion. IMO, the mentality of "what can you do for me" wins out. Have we been the benefactor of that at UK recently? No. If an out of state top 10 QB is considering us, however, and they see that we are an average 5-win team, with a history of producing NFL caliber QB's, that recruit may lean our direction. Why do you think that Butch Davis has had such a tremendous amount of luck at UNC thus far? It is not because the program has won a lot of games lately. It is because the man is sitting in living rooms and telling them he has experience in getting kids to the NFL. In this day and age, that is probably what matters most to kids.
There is some truth to that, but not really the whole picture. Davis can also say, I have won and won big at the college level, plus UNC is really pretty.
Kids want to get to the NFL but they also want to win. Do you think a kid that is the behind 3 future NFL RBs has a better chance of getting to the NFL at USC or at UK? Probably at UK but he goes to USC 99 times out of 100. Couch was the 1st pick in the draft but we didn't suddenly start signing top 10 QBs. We have had very good QBs but they all have been KY kids. Win in the SEC and kids will come. Put one QB in the NFL and people yawn. Hawaii has a kid putting up rediculous numbers but I doubt they are recruiting as well as USC. Vandy had a SEC 1st team QB and top 10 pick, but still can't recruit.
I think both are important, but winning is way more important. Publicity of a heisman campaign helps, but not like winning does. Plus there is the sportman ship factor that should play into this at some point.

[Craig the Blueheart]

There is some truth to that, but not really the whole picture. Davis can also say, I have won and won big at the college level, plus UNC is really pretty.
Kids want to get to the NFL but they also want to win. Do you think a kid that is the behind 3 future NFL RBs has a better chance of getting to the NFL at USC or at UK? Probably at UK but he goes to USC 99 times out of 100. Couch was the 1st pick in the draft but we didn't suddenly start signing top 10 QBs. We have had very good QBs but they all have been KY kids. Win in the SEC and kids will come. Put one QB in the NFL and people yawn. Hawaii has a kid putting up rediculous numbers but I doubt they are recruiting as well as USC. Vandy had a SEC 1st team QB and top 10 pick, but still can't recruit.
I think both are important, but winning is way more important. Publicity of a heisman campaign helps, but not like winning does. Plus there is the sportman ship factor that should play into this at some point.

I agree with pretty much all of your post; We will have to agree to disagree about your thoughts on what is most important to teenagers these days. The fact of the matter is this: If Andre gets great PR this year from his wonderful numbers, and as a result he gets drafted high, I think it only adds to the overall perception of UK players going pro. In my opinion, that perception is probably what matters most to a potential recruit. If UK wins the SEC in the mean time, that would be an added bonus. In addition, with Couch, we only had one QB in the NFL at the time, and we currently are on the brink of having 3-4 there simultaneously (Lorenzen, Boyd, Woodson and MAYBE Couch if he can get on with someone else). If I were a young stud QB, I would think a lot about that. What message would our number of QBs say to me if I was a recruit? It would probably indicate to me that UK is a place where the team might be "ok" when compared to national power schools, but they really must sling the ball around and get their kids to the NFL. I am not saying that everyone thinks like this, but I think there is an overwhelming majority of kids that do. Truth be told, I think that this logic is much more relevant in Men's Basketball than it is in football. You see super high school athletes running to small unknowns to get their playing time and make a big splash immediately.

[BlueBalls]

It appears that I don't have the popular view here, but I think that these are the games that a lot of your Heisman hopefuls post huge numbers. I do not think Woodson should play the entire game, but it would be nice to see him put up over 300 yards.

If UK doesn't have a successful season, , it doesn't matter what kind of numbers Andre has. McFadden can have the same numbers as last year and if Arkansas finishes 6-6, he won't be in New York for the presentation. Numbers alone don't get you Heismans.

[poodoo]

I agree with hoping that we are UP BIG in the third quarter. FWIW, Coach Brooks said Monday, I believe it was, that he was "scared to death" that we could lose the game. He is concerned that his players could come out flat. In my opinion, Commonwealth fans had better be sure that does NOT happen.

In regard to playing Hartline IF we do have a big lead, I suspect that it will happen. I don't think anyone on the UK sideline, including Andre Woodson himself, has his mind on Andre's winning the Heisman. Just BE READY, Cats, and BEAT the Colonels! GO CATS! GO RICH!

[The Old School JPS]

What I hope to see vs. EKU:

1) no injuries

2) some significant time on the field for Hartline, Alphonso Smith, Maurice Grinter, backup tight ends and some reserve wide receivers

3) few penalties, and even fewer flat stupid ones

4) Woodson, if pressured much at all in the game, demonstrating an improved ability to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack. I doubt EKU will get to them much, but this leads to #5:

5) solid and consistent offensive line play

6) good heads up defensive play, especially in the secondary, with the guys back there showing again an aptitude for causing turnovers

Give me that half dozen and I'll be pleased with even a one point win and feeling good about the rest of the season.

[RedandBlackATTACK]

"I'm going to say that if we're up by more than two or three scores by half, you pull Woodson, and get the back-ups some time."

Wow. 14 or 21 by half is certainly not much of lead, IMO. I would consider pulling him mid fourth quarter if up by 21, with only a two score lead, it would be late fourth quarter before I hooked him.

[Wildcatgirl19]

I agree. André will have plenty of chances to inflate his numbers in other games.
I agree

[pharmcat]

[quote=RCS;316879]The point of playing is for the team to succeed, not individual honors. Andre winning the hiesman is a super long shot. You can't plan your season or even one game around it. Our backup situation is bad. They need experience WAY more than Andre need another hundred yards passing to pad his stats. We have been lucky, knock on wood, to not really need a back up QB much around here, but if Andre goes down, we are screwed. Hartline needs every possible snap that we can prudently give him.


agreed. as much as i'd like to see andre get monster numbers and the press that goes along with it, what the team needs comes before what an individual needs. i just hope this is something we have to worry about starting in the 3rd quarter.

[FCFS82]

Kent State is a good team. Woodson will have to play into the 4th quarter, more than likely the whole game.

Kentucky 31, Kent State 16.