Why no extra point?

[twincat]

Can someone fill me in on why we didn't kick the extra point after the last TD. I know time had expired, but I thought the EP was always allowed except under unusual circumstances. This may be a big issue to someone who had 7 points.

[UKS2H]

I was wondering the same. Vegas odds had us 7 in the hole and for those who took Kentucky and the points, it's what caused them to lose their money.

[LAcat]

I read on a SEC board that UK declined...they just walked off. That's really got to upset those that took the points at 7.

[RaviMoss#1fan]

heck we could of kick it or ran for two would of got it down to 7 or 6 and i wouldnt of lost no money

[catlovercardhater]

The rule is you don't kick the field goal if it has no effect on the game.

[Tom Blevins]

i heard on one of the post game shows that there is a rule that if time has expired and the extra point would have no effect on the outcome of the game, the scoring team is not allowed to attempt an extra point.

[lighthouse]

I'll get the answer and post it Monday.

[gerntz]

The rule is you don't kick the field goal if it has no effect on the game.

That's what the radio announcers said, right or wrong.

[twincat]

I'll get the answer and post it Monday.

Thanks Lighthouse. I was hoping you would see this. I'm not up on all the new rules (if this is a new one). I had just not heard a specific answer to this situation.

[jwade]

Here's an excerpt from the 2005 NCAA rulebook. Rule 8, Section 3, Article 2a. I doubt this article has changed since 2005.

The ball shall be put in play by the team that scored a six-point touchdown. If a touchdown is scored during a down in which time in the fourth period expires, the try is mandatory unless the team behind in the score leaves the field of play.

This would lead one to believe that we were entitled to the kick if we had chosen to do so.


Jim

[The Old School JPS]

Here's an excerpt from the 2005 NCAA rulebook. Rule 8, Section 3, Article 2a. I doubt this article has changed since 2005.

The ball shall be put in play by the team that scored a six-point touchdown. If a touchdown is scored during a down in which time in the fourth period expires, the try is mandatory unless the team behind in the score leaves the field of play.

This would lead one to believe that we were entitled to the kick if we had chosen to do so.


Jim

The radio guys said on the post game show that this very rule was changed after last season, before this season, and that UK was not entitled to try any conversion (1 or 2 points) because regulation had expired and it could not make a difference in who won.

[jkeller]

I think it's foolish to bet on college kids, anyway. But I do sympathize with those who lost money because of it.

There was really no good reason (besides Vegas) to attempt an extra point. What's the difference if you lose by 8 or 7? You still lost.

[The Old School JPS]

Here it is:

The NCAA rule - Rule 8, Section 3, Article 2, states:

"The ball shall be put in play by the team that scored a six-point touchdown. If a touchdown is scored during a down in which time in the fourth period expires, the try shall not be attempted unless the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game.''

Prior to 2006, the rule said the extra point try was mandatory unless the team that was losing left the field of play.

I think it's foolish to bet on college kids, anyway. But I do sympathize with those who lost money because of it.

There was really no good reason (besides Vegas) to attempt an extra point. What's the difference if you lose by 8 or 7? You still lost.

The difference is what happens with the BCS computers when you lose by 7 instead of 8 to a very good team. Unfortunately it affects UK, and other teams as well. That single point actually could result in one team ending up ahead of another in the BCS rankings.

Here's an article on the 'no extra point at the end of the game' rule and what it dis to bettors in Las Vegas:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21398738/

[DCWildcat]

Good find. Seems like a good rule to me--one less play means less potential for injury, even if it's small.

[jkeller]

So if the rule is that we weren't allowed to attempt an extra point because it wouldn't have affected whether or not we won or lost the game, then we couldn't have gained that one extra BCS point by kicking an extra point.

I believe that is one of the flaws that the BCS system has, points for margin of victory and how it is taken into consideration in every game. Sure Florida should have been better rewarded if we had not scored that last touchdown, and even less if we had been able to kick an extra point. But this is the technicality that rewards top ten teams for running up the score against the cupcakes they play in the early season, instead of using the opportunity of an easy opponent to let their younger players gain experience.

I know my rant was slightly unrelated to the topic at hand, but it just burns me when a team still has their starters in and they are up by 50 or 60. :mad:

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

Another ruled where college and NFL differ - it is required in the NFL.

[EricBigNally]

Now I don't run around betting much anymore but if the spread was 7 and the correct team wins by 7 and you took the bet either way (still assuming the final score is Florida winning by 7) then NO ONE the bets wins anything because the handicappers did their job exceptionally well... the 8 point loss meant that if you took Florida you won because they beat the spread. If kentucky kicks the PAT everyone that took Kentucky still would have lost because they would have hit the spread dead on... if this is not the case with whoever you bet with please give me his/her contact info.

[Brandon]

The difference is what happens with the BCS computers when you lose by 7 instead of 8 to a very good team. Unfortunately it affects UK, and other teams as well. That single point actually could result in one team ending up ahead of another in the BCS rankings.
I thought the BCS took the margin of victory factor completely out (including the computer ratings) several years back?

As for the betting thing, I have no sympathy - you deserve what you get for wasting your money.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

I don't think any of this matters because the sat. morning line, at least in the Gainesville Sun, was 6 and a half.

[JawadtheChinchilla]

I thought the BCS took the margin of victory factor completely out (including the computer ratings) several years back?

As for the betting thing, I have no sympathy - you deserve what you get for wasting your money.

Yes, that is correct, they dropped it in 2002.

[UKATFAN]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/recap;_ylt=AuzcKtTIMU.WcoOWMa39zjyK1LYF?gid=200710 200069&prov=ap

[abovthecrowd]

I always thought you kicked the point, if there is a penalty on the defence the game can't end with that penalty. In that case would there not have to be a kick-off? I know this is a "what if" scenario and that Florida would probably not even take the field for the extra point.

[Brandon]

I always thought you kicked the point, if there is a penalty on the defence the game can't end with that penalty. In that case would there not have to be a kick-off? I know this is a "what if" scenario and that Florida would probably not even take the field for the extra point.
If it was a regular play that would be the case, but on the extra point if there's a penalty on the defense they would just have to re-kick the extra point or decline the penalty.

[hoosierhateruklover]

Former NBA ref Tim Donaghy was probably running out onto the field yelling kick the PAT! kick the PAT!
I'm sure the NCAA will make it a rule to kick a meaningless extra point so that the vegas gamblers will get their money.

[lighthouse]

I just got off the phone with my SEC contact, and the rule is this. Unless the kick would tie or win the game, is isn't an option. By book rule, no kick.

[The Old School JPS]

I thought the BCS took the margin of victory factor completely out (including the computer ratings) several years back?

As for the betting thing, I have no sympathy - you deserve what you get for wasting your money.

I think you're right; my mistake.

[The Old School JPS]

I just got off the phone with my SEC contact, and the rule is this. Unless the kick would tie or win the game, is isn't an option. By book rule, no kick.

Lighthouse: what if the team that scored at the end of the game has a 1 or 2 point lead and time expires? Are they required to take the field for the conversion since the team on defense could win or tie the game with a successful return? I know that's incredibly unlikely to happen, especially since the scoring team would most certainly just down the ball, but does the rule exclude that possibility?

[bret1555]

Lighthouse: what if the team that scored at the end of the game has a 1 or 2 point lead and time expires? Are they required to take the field for the conversion since the team on defense could win or tie the game with a successful return? I know that's incredibly unlikely to happen, especially since the scoring team would most certainly just down the ball, but does the rule exclude that possibility?

Good question. . . There could be a blocked PAT returned for two points in that case.

[lighthouse]

If there is a try, both teams must be on the field.

[The Old School JPS]

Right, but is the conversion attempt mandatory in that situation?

[gerntz]

Lighthouse: what if the team that scored at the end of the game has a 1 or 2 point lead and time expires? Are they required to take the field for the conversion since the team on defense could win or tie the game with a successful return? I know that's incredibly unlikely to happen, especially since the scoring team would most certainly just down the ball, but does the rule exclude that possibility?

I assume the team ahead trying the PAT would take a knee.

[lighthouse]

Lighthouse: what if the team that scored at the end of the game has a 1 or 2 point lead and time expires? Are they required to take the field for the conversion since the team on defense could win or tie the game with a successful return? I know that's incredibly unlikely to happen, especially since the scoring team would most certainly just down the ball, but does the rule exclude that possibility?

I read you post again, and called my buddy. If time expired during the TD play, the game is over and no PAT.

[VirginiaBlue]

Now I don't run around betting much anymore but if the spread was 7 and the correct team wins by 7 and you took the bet either way (still assuming the final score is Florida winning by 7) then NO ONE the bets wins anything because the handicappers did their job exceptionally well... the 8 point loss meant that if you took Florida you won because they beat the spread. If kentucky kicks the PAT everyone that took Kentucky still would have lost because they would have hit the spread dead on... if this is not the case with whoever you bet with please give me his/her contact info.

Incorrectamundo, my friend. Florida was favored by 7, and if UK had kicked the extra point the margin would have been 7, so it would have been a PUSH. All bettors get their money back. That's why everybody who took UK and 7 is steamed.

You may be thinking about the old football cards, where the bettor lost all ties.

[EricBigNally]

Incorrectamundo, my friend. Florida was favored by 7, and if UK had kicked the extra point the margin would have been 7, so it would have been a PUSH. All bettors get their money back. That's why everybody who took UK and 7 is steamed.

You may be thinking about the old football cards, where the bettor lost all ties.

You would be exactly right on what I was thinking of. Glad oyu pointed that out. I was trying to figure out what all the fuss was about.

[poodoo]

Florida was favored by 7, and if UK had kicked the extra point the margin would have been 7, so it would have been a PUSH. All bettors get their money back. That's why everybody who took UK and 7 is steamed.



I just hope all those folks realize that UK was NOT ALLOWED the opportunity to kick the extra point. We need NO fans upset with Coach Brooks. We need, instead, all the support we can get for the Cats and their coach. :)

[The Old School JPS]

I read you post again, and called my buddy. If time expired during the TD play, the game is over and no PAT.

That makes sense but I was curious. Thanks!

[abovthecrowd]

I too misplaced my 2007 rules and infractions book, and by no means was I worried about the gamblers, good Lord I see them everyday at work.