Michael Porter aka Saul Smith Part Deux

[BlueRazor]

Could anyone tell me why Porter is getting so much playing time when it is obvious that the level of play is way above him?

When UK is on offense they might as well be playing four on five because he is no threat to shoot the ball. There is a greater chance of him making a stupid turn over than actually putting the ball in the basket.

Am I missing something? I haven't seen a kid this bad since Saul Smith. No wonder Legion wanted to leave. I would too if I had to sit on the bench behind Porter every game.

[Littlemeyer]

Firstly, I wish this team had a PG the caliber of Saul Smith. I think we'd see a HUGE difference on the floor with that kind of leader out there. Perhaps when/if (but especially when) Jasper gets back, we'll have that.

Secondly, you're right that Porter has been having some problems this season. I thought he played rather well against UNC. I can only remember one bad pass that resulted in a turnover. I thought he moved the ball well and took his shot when it was there. Horrid, though, against Stony Brook. (But then, who wasn't?) (Patterson.)

He'll be ok. Right now, Coach is in a situation where he has to play these guys. They're all we have.

[JayB]

I would be all smiles if we had Saul Smith instead of Porter, estatic even.... He was 10X the player MP is. And no I'm not a tubby crazyite or w.e the frig there calling them these days.

[ukbob]

I thought he was Saul, the way he is being talked about.

Why not cut the kid some slack. He's trying and just not there yet. He's also a Soph. He's playing too many minutes but until Jasper returns, it is what it is.

We have 3 active guards and he is one of them.

Instead of bashing the kid why not just hope he gets better. If and when Jasper returns, we will need a backup PG. Michael taking his lumps now wil only help us down the road.

[OldCatFan]

I thought he was Saul, the way he is being talked about.

Why not cut the kid some slack. He's trying and just not there yet. He's also a Soph. He's playing too many minutes but until Jasper returns, it is what it is.

We have 3 active guards and he is one of them.

Instead of bashing the kid why not just hope he gets better. If and when Jasper returns, we will need a backup PG. Michael taking his lumps now wil only help us down the road.

Good response UKBob. I agree.

[charms]

I thought he was Saul, the way he is being talked about.

Why not cut the kid some slack. He's trying and just not there yet. He's also a Soph. He's playing too many minutes but until Jasper returns, it is what it is.

We have 3 active guards and he is one of them.

Instead of bashing the kid why not just hope he gets better. If and when Jasper returns, we will need a backup PG. Michael taking his lumps now wil only help us down the road.

I agree, Porter is going to get better as time goes on, but until Jasper is 100%, this is all we have.

[Terry623]

I thought he was Saul, the way he is being talked about.

Why not cut the kid some slack. He's trying and just not there yet. He's also a Soph. He's playing too many minutes but until Jasper returns, it is what it is.

We have 3 active guards and he is one of them.

Instead of bashing the kid why not just hope he gets better. If and when Jasper returns, we will need a backup PG. Michael taking his lumps now wil only help us down the road.

I agree. Further, there may very well be a message being conveyed to players who do not do what is expected of them by the Coach. Bradley being late for a team meeting (I think that was the reason) kept him out of the starting line up. I am not thrilled with what's going on right now but I also anticipated a period of transition greater than 6 games.

I worry that the Cats' preseason ranking and some of the success in recruiting lead to a little too high expectations for this squad. I am still excited about the future under BCG's leadership and am willing to be patient.

[AugustaDan]

Could anyone tell me why Porter is getting so much playing time when it is obvious that the level of play is way above him?

When UK is on offense they might as well be playing four on five because he is no threat to shoot the ball. There is a greater chance of him making a stupid turn over than actually putting the ball in the basket.

Am I missing something? I haven't seen a kid this bad since Saul Smith. No wonder Legion wanted to leave. I would too if I had to sit on the bench behind Porter every game.
Every post like this leads me closer to the conclusion that Dick Vitale is more right about UK fans that I want to admit. :icon_frown:

[leroybyrd]

I thought he was Saul, the way he is being talked about.

Why not cut the kid some slack. He's trying and just not there yet. He's also a Soph. He's playing too many minutes but until Jasper returns, it is what it is.

We have 3 active guards and he is one of them.

Instead of bashing the kid why not just hope he gets better. If and when Jasper returns, we will need a backup PG. Michael taking his lumps now wil only help us down the road.

I get your sentiment, but this is a message board. If everyone came on here and said, "I hope we get better" and "I have faith in Coach," pretty soon we wouldn't have much of a message board anyone would be interested in.

Also, I agree with other posters that if we had Saul, we would be much better as Porter is not half the PG and selfless leader that Saul was.

[ukbob]

I get your sentiment, but this is a message board. If everyone came on here and said, "I hope we get better" and "I have faith in Coach," pretty soon we wouldn't have much of a message board anyone would be interested in.

Also, I agree with other posters that if we had Saul, we would be much better as Porter is not half the PG and selfless leader that Saul was.

Your comparing Saul Smith the Senior who played for his father and knew his system inside and out, versus Porter the Sophomore learning a completely new one.

Look...I don't think by any stretch, he is our answer to the PG problem. But he is what we have right now and is trying to get better. It isn't happening quick enough for the fans but I think his effort is there. I just think cutting him some slack until the pieces are really together is the route to go.

If you disagree, then I have no issue with it.

[UedK]

I get your sentiment, but this is a message board. If everyone came on here and said, "I hope we get better" and "I have faith in Coach," pretty soon we wouldn't have much of a message board anyone would be interested in.

Also, I agree with other posters that if we had Saul, we would be much better as Porter is not half the PG and selfless leader that Saul was.

It's pretty simple but I guess it needs to be spelled out.

Bradley gives us a better chance of winning at the 2 spot and Porter is our only option at the 1.

The Saul crack was immature.

[RaleighCat]

Also, I agree with other posters that if we had Saul, we would be much better as Porter is not half the PG and selfless leader that Saul was.

And Alex Legion isn't half the freshman that Gerald Fitch was, either.

We can play this game all day long. Byrd is right, that as a message board we're going to see all kinds of opinions and attitudes towards players and coaches. I have no problem with that.

IMHO the original post was a little too harsh. It's not Porter's decision when he plays- or Legion's either. Coach Gillispie is calling the shots, and evidently not well enough in one mother's mind.

Let's not forget that Porter is only a soph. He's still learning. Legion isn't a true pg, and I haven't seen anything from him to warrant more time at the point. Bradley is in flux right now, so we just can't rely on him to run the team solo. We basically have three COMBO guards and Legion might be the least suited to playing pg right now (given age and inexperience).

[Ambassador of Love]

Porter is the only backup PG on scholly! Who do you recommend takes over the back up PG spot?

He is not even a true point guard but the kid is doing the best he can since there is no one else to do it. Get off of his back!

[AugustaDan]

And Alex Legion isn't half the freshman that Gerald Fitch was, either.

We can play this game all day long. Byrd is right, that as a message board we're going to see all kinds of opinions and attitudes towards players and coaches. I have no problem with that.

IMHO the original post was a little too harsh. It's not Porter's decision when he plays- or Legion's either. Coach Gillispie is calling the shots, and evidently not well enough in one mother's mind.

Let's not forget that Porter is only a soph. He's still learning. Legion isn't a true pg, and I haven't seen anything from him to warrant more time at the point. Bradley is in flux right now, so we just can't rely on him to run the team solo. We basically have three COMBO guards and Legion might be the least suited to playing pg right now (given age and inexperience).
And reading the outrage toward Porter and the longing for Legion, you'd actually think that Porter had committed more turnovers than Legion this season.

[RaleighCat]

And reading the outrage toward Porter and the longing for Legion, you'd actually think that Porter had committed more turnovers than Legion this season.

How true, how true.
10 TO's for Legion in 6 games, avg. 17.5 mins per.
9 TO's for Porter in 6 games, avg. 20.5 mins per.

But this story is all about what happened lately. Reminds me of Crawford's freshman year when he didn't play much in a game he parents attended and he almost went home with them.

[wildcat74]

Funny, last year when MP was in the games, I actually thought he did really well. I thought he played pretty heads up and made decent decisions. This year, it seems that his confidence has beeen ROCKED - most notably to me, his hesitancy to take a shot on offense, which is characteristic of lack of confidence. Its gonna take him some time, I think that the playing time will pay off in the long run, remember its a leraning experience and no matter how you practice, you cant simulate a game situation. I hope he pulls out of it.

[Mr. T]

Could anyone tell me why Porter is getting so much playing time when it is obvious that the level of play is way above him?

When UK is on offense they might as well be playing four on five because he is no threat to shoot the ball. There is a greater chance of him making a stupid turn over than actually putting the ball in the basket.

Am I missing something? I haven't seen a kid this bad since Saul Smith. No wonder Legion wanted to leave. I would too if I had to sit on the bench behind Porter every game.


I think I am leaning towards the reason being that LEGION WASN'T A PG!! MP is a pg for better or worse and honestly he's the only one we have on the team right now with Jasper hurt. Bradley is just a disaster when running the point. Legion wasn't fighting MP for playing time, he was fighting Crawford and Bradley for playing time..... now do you want to argue that he should play ahead of them or that he should be playing PG?

[TrueblueCATfan]

Could anyone tell me why Porter is getting so much playing time when it is obvious that the level of play is way above him?

When UK is on offense they might as well be playing four on five because he is no threat to shoot the ball. There is a greater chance of him making a stupid turn over than actually putting the ball in the basket.

Am I missing something? I haven't seen a kid this bad since Saul Smith. No wonder Legion wanted to leave. I would too if I had to sit on the bench behind Porter every game.

No clue..that might a question you could ask our new coach

[ntrich]

I want to give the kid a break this is going to be a very tough and long season... but I had to laugh when I read the thread title. :)

[Mr. T]

No clue..that might a question you could ask our new coach

We know you love Tubby, so maybe you should ask him why he signed Porter then?

[TrueblueCATfan]

We know you love Tubby, so maybe you should ask him why he signed Porter then?

I was just responding to the posters question.....you response was uncalled for.............nobody knows why porter is getting the minutes.....only the coach does.........

[wildcatcrazy]

I think some of you guys eat your young.

Why trash Michael Porter? What does that get us?

I have zero doubt that Michael is giving us all he has--what more can you ask for him--and what has he done wrong?

Now, to question why Porter got minutes over Legion is an entirely different matter (although Porter is a PG and Legion was a 2g).

I realize I am in the vast minority but I have issues with Billy G---not Michael Porter. Give the kid a break.

[jdeasy]

The only comparison between Porter and Saul is that tubby brought them both here.

Porter can play. He was actually recruited by many other D-1 schools. Saul had one other offer, East 10-E-C.

[FatCatDaddy]

Porter is the only True PG on the team right now who isn't injured. Who are proposing plays PG? Bradley? We already saw how that doesn't work.

[RichieFarmersMustache]

Porter is the only True PG on the team right now who isn't injured. Who are proposing plays PG? Bradley? We already saw how that doesn't work.


Is Porter really a true PG? I thought coming out of high school, he was described as a great shooter. Based on what I've seen from him so far, he doesn't look like he's ever been a true PG. He gets the ball ripped from him when he goes against good defenders or man-to-man pressure/full court pressure, makes bad passes and bad decisions with the ball, and tends to dribble mostly with his right hand only. I'm not against him playing, but it appears we are forcing him to play the point when shooting guard is a more natural fit for him.

[RCS]

I am not sure what Alex Legion most were watching. The kid clearly has talent and potential but he was constantly lost on both ends of the floor. The reason BCG kept pulling him out is he was coaching him. He would pull him over and go over things because Legion was clearly confused. The kid is very raw IMO. I think by the end of the year he would have been playing a lot but right now he was a liability much of the time.
Porter has not played well, and we can complain all we want, but who exactly would you like to see play? We simply don't have anyone. Crawford and Bradley played almost the entire game. Legion is not a PG and as I mentioned a huge defensive liability. We just don't have anyone.

We have 5 guys for 3 positions, and only 2 of them are ready for prime time. Crawford and Bradley. So that means Harris, Porter and formerly Legion had to get them. None of them have any experience nor, frankly are very good options at this point, but until Meeks and Jasper get back that is what we have. Now we only have Harris and Porter apparently.

Look at this team. Going into the season we only had 4 guys who saw very many minutes last year, Bradley, Crawford, Meeks and Jasper. Two of those are out, so now you have 5-7 guys playing major minutes with little to no experience learning a totally new system. That is why we look so discombobulated out there. We have no pg and a bunch of guys who have never really played college basketball. What did you expect?

[ukwebfan]

Porter's minutes and Legion leaving are 2 separate issues. We're lucky to have a tough competitor like Porter.

[OldCatFan]

Porter plays his heart out. I applaud his effort and the improvement he has shown since coming to UK.

[teamchemistry09]

Itd be great if hed decide to play football for us as well

[countrycat]

We know you love Tubby, so maybe you should ask him why he signed Porter then?

Dang! you beat me to it.

[Craig the Blueheart]

We know you love Tubby, so maybe you should ask him why he signed Porter then?

Many folks seem to be on edge right now, and it would go a long way to consider what you are posting before you hit the "submit reply" button. Posts that are directly targeted at someone in an arguementative fashion are not acceptable!

[NOWIS]

Is Porter really a true PG? I thought coming out of high school, he was described as a great shooter. Based on what I've seen from him so far, he doesn't look like he's ever been a true PG. He gets the ball ripped from him when he goes against good defenders or man-to-man pressure/full court pressure, makes bad passes and bad decisions with the ball, and tends to dribble mostly with his right hand only. I'm not against him playing, but it appears we are forcing him to play the point when shooting guard is a more natural fit for him.


You're right, he came to UK as a 2 guard, Tubby used him as a PG last year because he had no other options. He may or may not do all the things you say, as bad as you say, but I'm sure the coach has given the other players a shot at it in practice and they do worse.

[NOWIS]

I get your sentiment, but this is a message board. If everyone came on here and said, "I hope we get better" and "I have faith in Coach," pretty soon we wouldn't have much of a message board anyone would be interested in.

Also, I agree with other posters that if we had Saul, we would be much better as Porter is not half the PG and selfless leader that Saul was.


What's with the selfless business. Porter is working his but off to learn to be a PG. I don't see him being a ball hog or forcing up bad shots or doing anything else selfish

[NOWIS]

Could anyone tell me why Porter is getting so much playing time when it is obvious that the level of play is way above him?

When UK is on offense they might as well be playing four on five because he is no threat to shoot the ball. There is a greater chance of him making a stupid turn over than actually putting the ball in the basket.

Am I missing something? I haven't seen a kid this bad since Saul Smith. No wonder Legion wanted to leave. I would too if I had to sit on the bench behind Porter every game.

The two fan favorites, Porter and Coury, are getting minutes because they do the right thing out on the court. They are where they are supposed to be and doing what they are supposed to do. They don't have the talent some of the other players have but they do understand the system and their job in it. When the other players have their understanding of what they are supposed to do Porter and Coury's playing time will decrease

[boomdaddy]

Firstly, I wish this team had a PG the caliber of Saul Smith. I think we'd see a HUGE difference on the floor with that kind of leader out there. Perhaps when/if (but especially when) Jasper gets back, we'll have that.

Secondly, you're right that Porter has been having some problems this season. I thought he played rather well against UNC. I can only remember one bad pass that resulted in a turnover. I thought he moved the ball well and took his shot when it was there. Horrid, though, against Stony Brook. (But then, who wasn't?) (Patterson.)

He'll be ok. Right now, Coach is in a situation where he has to play these guys. They're all we have.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Please tell me that you are joking??????????????? Saul was the 2nd worst coaches son to start for Ky. Sean Sutton was the worst. Porter does not have D1 talent. Why he is on the team is beyond me. I don't know why Legion left, but I guess it will be OK, since Porter can take up the slack.
( And yes, I am being sarcastic! )

[boomdaddy]

The two fan favorites, Porter and Coury, are getting minutes because they do the right thing out on the court. They are where they are supposed to be and doing what they are supposed to do. They don't have the talent some of the other players have but they do understand the system and their job in it. When the other players have their understanding of what they are supposed to do Porter and Coury's playing time will decrease

Are you watching the same games that I am? I see a guard that can't pass or shoot and a forward who can't jump, score, or rebound. I am truly baffled as to why those kids get PT. When Ky gets players back, I don't see Porter getting nothing but mop up time. As for Coury, his below average play speaks volumes of just how bad the two centers must be, to not get in the game.

As for the two fan favorites, they sure aren't mine and I am a huge Ky fan. My favorites are Crawford, Bradley, and Patterson.

[NOWIS]

Are you watching the same games that I am? I see a guard that can't pass or shoot and a forward who can't jump, score, or rebound. I am truly baffled as to why those kids get PT. When Ky gets players back, I don't see Porter getting nothing but mop up time. As for Coury, his below average play speaks volumes of just how bad the two centers must be, to not get in the game.

As for the two fan favorites, they sure aren't mine and I am a huge Ky fan. My favorites are Crawford, Bradley, and Patterson.

They don't have an icon for sarcasm, I guess I could have uses a wink.

My post is not from watching games, its from listening to coach Gillispie. Their competition haven't learned the offense and defense.

[bret1555]

The crack at Saul is uncalled for. . . Dirk Minnifield, he was not, but he was a solid PG.

The criticism of Porter, though some of it is mean-spirited, is worth discussing. He obviously has some ball-handling deficiencies that need shoring up, and he plays a bit meekly on the offensive end, but the kid does hustle. He has improved markedly on the defensive end (lest we forget last season's UT game. . . We're leading and Porter loses LOFTON three straight times in transition).

He will get better.

[nwmn9386]

When UK is on offense they might as well be playing four on five because he is no threat to shoot the ball. There is a greater chance of him making a stupid turn over than actually putting the ball in the basket.

I think you mean 3 on five, because Coury is the exact same. He has no business being on the floor, espcially not starting. I am a bit embarassed when I see him on the court at the beginning of the game

[jdeasy]

__________________________________________________ ___________

Please tell me that you are joking??????????????? Saul was the 2nd worst coaches son to start for Ky. Sean Sutton was the worst. Porter does not have D1 talent. Why he is on the team is beyond me. I don't know why Legion left, but I guess it will be OK, since Porter can take up the slack.
( And yes, I am being sarcastic! )


Sean Sutton was much, much better player than Saul. Sean was recruited by other D-1 schools. Sean was a finalist for Ky Mr Basketball. Sean went on to a fine career at OK State. Saul was all county in Ga. Saul had one other D-1 offer, East Tenn. Saul would not have gotten off the bench if his daddy was not the coach.

[Rockober]

Sean Sutton was much, much better player than Saul. Sean was recruited by other D-1 schools. Sean was a finalist for Ky Mr Basketball. Sean went on to a fine career at OK State. Saul was all county in Ga. Saul had one other D-1 offer, East Tenn. Saul would not have gotten off the bench if his daddy was not the coach.

Saul was not one of the finest point guards that UK has had. I agree. But to say he sucked and couldn't play division 1 basketball is asenine. Did he not play semi pro basketball? There should have been other guards recruited imo, but to make him out as lame as you describe is rediculous.

[BrassowFan]

Saul Smith played his butt off for Kentucky and got nothing but ridicule in return for it. Despite the abuse... and it was abuse... I've yet to hear him say one bad word about the program or the fans. He may not have been the best player but he was adequate and not one time, NOT ONCE, did he insert himself into the lineup, all that he did was answer the call when Tubby yelled his name. To blame him for that is ridiculous!

If you want to be upset with Tubby for recruiting and playing Saul, so be it, but to be critical of the young man is ridiculous and petty, IMHO.

I would love to see the fans treat Saul Smith with half as much dignity and class as he's treated us.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

Brassowfan, Excellent post and thank you :thumbup:

[BrassowFan]

Brassowfan, Excellent post and thank you :thumbup:

Thanks! I've never understood this criticism of Saul. He was a kid who played hard and despite many reasons to do otherwise, he always seemed like he loved playing at UK. He wasn't the most talented PG in our history but I always thought that he overcame a lot of that with heart. IMHO, the only difference between him and a few members of the Unforgetables is that he was Tubby's son, and for a few, that's enough to hate the poor kid forever.

[boomdaddy]

Thanks! I've never understood this criticism of Saul. He was a kid who played hard and despite many reasons to do otherwise, he always seemed like he loved playing at UK. He wasn't the most talented PG in our history but I always thought that he overcame a lot of that with heart. IMHO, the only difference between him and a few members of the Unforgetables is that he was Tubby's son, and for a few, that's enough to hate the poor kid forever.

I really don't know anyone who hates Saul. I do know plenty of people who dislike having a coach who plays their son, instead of getting better players. Smith lost out on great guard talent, because they didn't want to sit behind a coach's son. And as for the whole nepotism thing, Wade Houston is the only coach I can remember, who had a top D1 talented player for a son.

[OldCatFan]

Saul Smith played his butt off for Kentucky and got nothing but ridicule in return for it. Despite the abuse... and it was abuse... I've yet to hear him say one bad word about the program or the fans. He may not have been the best player but he was adequate and not one time, NOT ONCE, did he insert himself into the lineup, all that he did was answer the call when Tubby yelled his name. To blame him for that is ridiculous!

If you want to be upset with Tubby for recruiting and playing Saul, so be it, but to be critical of the young man is ridiculous and petty, IMHO.

I would love to see the fans treat Saul Smith with half as much dignity and class as he's treated us.


Great post. I agree. It is time for "fans" to quit trashing our current and former players. I thank them all for their hard work and effort in making UK basketball the greatest college BB program.

[sardiscat]

"Wade Houston is the only coach I can remember, who had a top D1 talented player for a son."

Press Maravich?

[TrueblueCATfan]

Saul Smith played his butt off for Kentucky and got nothing but ridicule in return for it. Despite the abuse... and it was abuse... I've yet to hear him say one bad word about the program or the fans. He may not have been the best player but he was adequate and not one time, NOT ONCE, did he insert himself into the lineup, all that he did was answer the call when Tubby yelled his name. To blame him for that is ridiculous!

If you want to be upset with Tubby for recruiting and playing Saul, so be it, but to be critical of the young man is ridiculous and petty, IMHO.

I would love to see the fans treat Saul Smith with half as much dignity and class as he's treated us.

EXCELLENT post Brassowfan......Saul Smith had more heart than any player ever....he never cause trouble..he was all class....this current team could use a SAUL right now.....

[Mr. T]

I agree there is no need to dog Saul at all. I never remember seeing him play without effort, he gave his all each time on the floor. He was also much better than many want to give him credit for. I may have not liked Tubby's last few years but I can see beyond that when evaluating Saul.

[leroybyrd]

What's with the selfless business. Porter is working his but off to learn to be a PG. I don't see him being a ball hog or forcing up bad shots or doing anything else selfish

I was not saying Porter was selfish, only praising Saul for just one of his many great traits. You are reading too much into my post.

[leroybyrd]

Many folks seem to be on edge right now, and it would go a long way to consider what you are posting before you hit the "submit reply" button. Posts that are directly targeted at someone in an arguementative fashion are not acceptable!


Come on, man. This is a messge board. What's wrong with spicing it up a little every now and then? This board needs to be spiced up sometimes.

[Littlemeyer]

Come on, man. This is a messge board. What's wrong with spicing it up a little every now and then? This board needs to be spiced up sometimes.

Well, for starters, depending on the degree of "spicing up" it could be agaisnt board rules.

I understand your point: Lively discussion/debate is not only fun, but it can often be very enlightening. I'm all for that.

But, it can be accomplished without getting personal with our fellow posters. That's all Craig, and any of us, ask.

[Mr. T]

Well, for starters, depending on the degree of "spicing up" it could be agaisnt board rules.

I understand your point: Lively discussion/debate is not only fun, but it can often be very enlightening. I'm all for that.

But, it can be accomplished without getting personal with our fellow posters. That's all Craig, and any of us, ask.

Well, it should be noted that what often gets called "personal" around here is often not. Discussing someones view on a current or former coach is most definitely relevant to the topic of Kentucky basketball and not even remotely personal. Getting personal would be more like telling someone they have an IQ of a tree stump. It does often seem like anything divisive gets shot down whether personal or not.

[jkeller]

I really don't know anyone who hates Saul. I do know plenty of people who dislike having a coach who plays their son, instead of getting better players. Smith lost out on great guard talent, because they didn't want to sit behind a coach's son. And as for the whole nepotism thing, Wade Houston is the only coach I can remember, who had a top D1 talented player for a son.

Lon Kruger's son could play for any D1 team.

[Craig the Blueheart]

Well, it should be noted that what often gets called "personal" around here is often not. Discussing someones view on a current or former coach is most definitely relevant to the topic of Kentucky basketball and not even remotely personal. Getting personal would be more like telling someone they have an IQ of a tree stump. It does often seem like anything divisive gets shot down whether personal or not.

You and I have discussed this issue, but crossing into personal territory can occur by someone posting something that they should know will start an argument. If for example, I knew you were Brandon Stockton's biggest fan when he came to UK, and I made an attempt to say that he was inadequate on several occasions, my views could probably be interpreted as a direct "dig" at you and your adoration.

Most of us know each other and our views around here. Some of us have been posting together for years. The only thing that I am trying to suggest is that we try to maintain civility by not making comments that we are certain will provoke an argument. I am a BIG on debates. I come here to discuss and debate issues with certain folks, because it is what I like to do. I encourage strong, wholesome exchanges of ideas, but I don't like seeing comments directly pointed at another user that we all know will start a fight.

I hope everyone embraces this notion; it makes our lives much easier, and it creates a premium discussion that cannot be found elsewhere.

[crazzedcats22]

You and I have discussed this issue, but crossing into personal territory can occur by someone posting something that they should know will start an argument. If for example, I knew you were Brandon Stockton's biggest fan when he came to UK, and I made an attempt to say that he was inadequate on several occasions, my views could probably be interpreted as a direct "dig" at you and your adoration.

Most of us know each other and our views around here. Some of us have been posting together for years. The only thing that I am trying to suggest is that we try to maintain civility by not making comments that we are certain will provoke an argument. I am a BIG on debates. I come here to discuss and debate issues with certain folks, because it is what I like to do. I encourage strong, wholesome exchanges of ideas, but I don't like seeing comments directly pointed at another user that we all know will start a fight.

I hope everyone embraces this notion; it makes our lives much easier, and it creates a premium discussion that cannot be found elsewhere.

I agree with you but we also don't want a board that is so G rated that nobody wants to be a part of it. Do you want it so that everybody is forced to agree with everyone else on every issue? This is the real world, people get fired up and are going to argue over UK basketball. Sometimes this place gets so censored it's silly. I don't think any of these posts have even come close to becoming personal attacks or warrant a warning.

[DCWildcat]

I like the way the discussion has turned on this last page.

I was never around the internet during Saul's days, so I didn't experience the frustration and blame surrounding him (regardless of whom it was directed at) to the extent that most of y'all probably did. I did know it was out there, though, as any Kentucky fan with a pulse did.

Believe it or not, players with the talent level of Porter aren't infrequent in high-major programs. They're certainly not signed every one or two years, but if you scour the rankings on many teams (there are of course exceptions), you might be surprised how many teams give scholarships to players of a similar caliber.

Porter is not ready to be a starter and, ideally, we'd have someone better to take over many of his minutes. That said, he's not a horrible player, and he's certainly got plenty of time to improve over the next two years. Considering his enthusiasm, reports of his work ethic, his ability to stay out of trouble, and Gillispie's great coaching abilities, I have no doubt that he'll achieve that.

[Mountain Cat]

Lon Kruger's son could play for any D1 team.

Mike Dunleavy Jr. is one of the best Coach's sons too.

And the Bibby kid too.

[Craig the Blueheart]

Do you want it so that everybody is forced to agree with everyone else on every issue?

Sometimes this place gets so censored it's silly.

After reading the first part of your post, I guess perhaps you may have misunderstood me. I actually said in my post that I like a healthy debate without making direct comments that try to annoy others.

As for the last part of your post, if you would like to complain about the way the board is being moderated, the most appropriate way to do so would be through a PM.

[Mountain Cat]

I have watched MP play only once in person this season and that was against Liberty, so it was a bit less than challenging.

Porter was always looking around and thinking on defense when he was off-ball and shifted very well to cover. On-ball he did a serviceable job of staying between his man and the basket. His quickness is not at Ramel's level, but he is not even close to being slowfooted. There will be some who can break him off the dribble, but most will pass around him.

Offensively MP looked to be more of a facilitator when we had a 3G set going. He really did not to shoot much and didn't. Though he finally did take one reluctant 3.....and drained it. I don't think BCG wants MP looking to create his own shot.

When we did not have Ramel or Joe on the floor to do the penetration, then MP was limited by his 1st step and imperfect handle. I do not think he will overcome that deficit soon, but he is serviceable in the 3G set playing the role of PG.

For now, we have what we have. He is no pig's ear, but he is no silk purse either. His tenacity and team-first play is making me a fan, but I am cheering for Jasper and Meeks to be available ASAP. That does not mean I want MP's minutes to go to zero, just that we need more offensive weapons.

[Craig the Blueheart]

I have watched MP play only once in person this season and that was against Liberty, so it was a bit less than challenging.

Porter was always looking around and thinking on defense when he was off-ball and shifted very well to cover. On-ball he did a serviceable job of staying between his man and the basket. His quickness is not at Ramel's level, but he is not even close to being slowfooted. There will be some who can break him off the dribble, but most will pass around him.

Offensively MP looked to be more of a facilitator when we had a 3G set going. He really did not to shoot much and didn't. Though he finally did take one reluctant 3.....and drained it. I don't think BCG wants MP looking to create his own shot.

When we did not have Ramel or Joe on the floor to do the penetration, then MP was limited by his 1st step and imperfect handle. I do not think he will overcome that deficit soon, but he is serviceable in the 3G set playing the role of PG.

For now, we have what we have. He is no pig's ear, but he is no silk purse either. His tenacity and team-first play is making me a fan, but I am cheering for Jasper and Meeks to be available ASAP. That does not mean I want MP's minutes to go to zero, just that we need more offensive weapons.

This is a great assessment, in my opinion. :thumbup:

[crazzedcats22]

After reading the first part of your post, I guess perhaps you may have misunderstood me. I actually said in my post that I like a healthy debate without making direct comments that try to annoy others.

As for the last part of your post, if you would like to complain about the way the board is being moderated, the most appropriate way to do so would be through a PM.

Maybe I did mis-understand your post, so I apolgize. As far as complaining, I'm not doing that, just voicing my thoughts.

[Mountain Cat]

This is a great assessment, in my opinion. :thumbup:

thanks

[SamKat]

That is, I agree, a fair assessment, MountainCat.

[leroybyrd]

I agree with you but we also don't want a board that is so G rated that nobody wants to be a part of it. Do you want it so that everybody is forced to agree with everyone else on every issue? This is the real world, people get fired up and are going to argue over UK basketball. Sometimes this place gets so censored it's silly. I don't think any of these posts have even come close to becoming personal attacks or warrant a warning.

I totally agree. I love this board, but it gets a little touchy feely sometimes and seems a little cliqueish.

[leroybyrd]

As for the last part of your post, if you would like to complain about the way the board is being moderated, the most appropriate way to do so would be through a PM.

Disagree. I think it would be most appropriate and I would like to see that discussion out in the open, in the light of day, so that everyone could participate.

[poodoo]

I agree. It is time for "fans" to quit trashing our current and former players. I thank them all for their hard work and effort in making UK basketball the greatest college BB program.

I rarely post on the basketball forum anymore (and thanks for your kind comment on a post I read here several days ago, Raleigh Cat) :). I do want to say DITTO to this comment, though, OldCatFan. :) AMEN to that.

I rather jokingly named myself "Public Defender" in a post here a long while back. :icon_biggrin: Well, if I were posting on the basketball forum, I would be just too busy constantly defending those who are "trashed"--current players, former players, current coach, former coach, and fellow posters with whom one disagrees or holds grudges in regard to either current or former posts. Yes, it seems to be too much about trashing of whomever, both CURRENT and FORMER. :shrug1:

I agree, OldCatFan, that Kentucky is the GREATEST college basketball program that has ever existed. I thank EVERYONE who has contributed to that. I love to discuss Kentucky basketball in a supportive way with fans who want to do the same.

Too, fair criticism with no malice is one thing. Sometimes, though, the line is most obviously crossed. Civil discussion of opposite opinions is what makes a message board. Extreme and personal comments, though, generally seem to lead to trouble, as I see it.

Further, things are not going to be rosy all the time--and are not going to warrant cheerleading. In fact, they are not too rosy at the moment, although I really feel that Coach G will, with time, straighten things out, something that could surely be aided by players' returning to action. BLAMING (and "trashing") current or former whatever does no good at all, as I see it. That's just my most humble opinion, though. :)

Actually, this ONE response on this ONE thread probably takes care of my public defending. :) Thanks for the opportunity, OldCatFan. :) GO CATS! GO COACH G! GO PORTER! GO ALL CATS! (Also, to a lesser degree, GO FORMER CATS AND COACHES!)

[boomdaddy]

Mike Dunleavy Jr. is one of the best Coach's sons too.

And the Bibby kid too.

Didn't Dunleavy play at Duke for coach K? Didn't the Bibby Kid play for Lute Olsen at Arizona? Yes, those kids are talented, but they didn't play for their dads. By the way, both made the pros.

[Mountain Cat]

Didn't Dunleavy play at Duke for coach K? Didn't the Bibby Kid play for Lute Olsen at Arizona? Yes, those kids are talented, but they didn't play for their dads. By the way, both made the pros.

Yes, but they were the first two really good Coach's sons I thought of off the top of my head.

I am sure there are others.....I just can't think of them.

[matt colvin]

If I had to admit that I liked a Dukie :icon_redface:, then Dunleavy would be it. He was a pretty tough college player. Could do it all for his size.