Interesting Vaught article

[ukbob]

Vaught's Views: Don't blame Smith for all of UK's woes

By LARRY VAUGHT
larry@amnews.com

How much responsibility should coach Billy Gillispie take for Kentucky's 4-4 record? How much responsibility should he take for what Kentucky's record is when the season is over?


Those are questions many Big Blue fans are debating today after UK's come-from-ahead loss to Alabama-Birmingham Saturday in Louisville.


The Wildcats blew a 14-point lead midway of the second half against a team that had already lost four games and had been horrible at taking care of the basketball. Yet against the Cats, the Blazers' offense looked unstoppable in the second half.

http://www.amnews.com/public_html/?module=displaystory&story_id=36979&format=html

[RaleighCat]

Last line of the article:
"Yet it still seems that this UK team could be better than what is has shown so far and that blaming Tubby Smith for everything that is wrong with this team simply is not fair."

I agree with this. Something isn't clicking right now, beyond the injury issues and beyond the talent issues. There appear to be many factors at play in our start. How it works out this season is anybody's guess. Eight games do not a season make.

[wanderingcat]

Okay, we beat Gardner-Webb and UAB, we are not going to be 6-2, we are going to be 6-4 because we would have gone to New York by beating GW and would have lost those two games to superior teams. Maybe psychologically we would be better off by beating GW and UAB but we would be the same team that is not capable of competing against good teams. In other words a 6-4 record sounds better, but is not indicative of a team that is better than our current 4-4 record. I do not know about you, but the odds are that CBC knows more about basketball than me so I assume the reasons he does not zone, does not play Stewart, Carter, Williams, change defensive assignments have something to do with us getting better as a team with the talent we currently have so that we will compete with stronger teams as the year goes on.

[UFWildcat]

Eight games do not a season make.

A little Yoda action right there? :icon_mrgreen:

[Realist]

From Vaught:

"It was Gillispie, not Smith, who put the team through another strenuous practice Saturday morning only a few hours before the Cats played UAB. Did that have anything to do with UK fading in the final 10 minutes?"

You've got to be kidding. How much are we paying him for this kind of leadership? IF we were 12 deep I still don't see it but given how thin we are this is ludicrous. I have come to the conclusion that Gillespie doesn't care if he wins games this year or not, he's got some kind of compulsion to establish that he's THE MAN.

[crazzedcats22]

From Vaught:

"It was Gillispie, not Smith, who put the team through another strenuous practice Saturday morning only a few hours before the Cats played UAB. Did that have anything to do with UK fading in the final 10 minutes?"

You've got to be kidding. How much are we paying him for this kind of leadership? IF we were 12 deep I still don't see it but given how thin we are this is ludicrous. I have come to the conclusion that Gillespie doesn't care if he wins games this year or not, he's got some kind of compulsion to establish that he's THE MAN.

I'm not the coach but I don't really see the benefit of practicing that much before a game. I've played and coached a lot of sports and that just doesn't make any sense to me.

It does almost seem like that. I hope that's not the case because everyone already knew he was the man from day one, but it does kind of seem like he is giving everyone a big middle finger if they don't like the way he does things. That kind of attitude can be beneficial but doesn't seem to really be working with this years team (at least not so far).

[wildcat74]

From Vaught:

"It was Gillispie, not Smith, who put the team through another strenuous practice Saturday morning only a few hours before the Cats played UAB. Did that have anything to do with UK fading in the final 10 minutes?"

You've got to be kidding. How much are we paying him for this kind of leadership? IF we were 12 deep I still don't see it but given how thin we are this is ludicrous. I have come to the conclusion that Gillespie doesn't care if he wins games this year or not, he's got some kind of compulsion to establish that he's THE MAN.


Benefits of such acts aren't usually seen until the end of the year. Unfortunatly for us, the end of the year may not include the tourney!

[bret1555]

Benefits of such acts aren't usually seen until the end of the year. Unfortunatly for us, the end of the year may not include the tourney!

Sometimes, neither are the costs. . .

[BigblueDrew]

I'm not the coach but I don't really see the benefit of practicing that much before a game. I've played and coached a lot of sports and that just doesn't make any sense to me.

It does almost seem like that. I hope that's not the case because everyone already knew he was the man from day one, but it does kind of seem like he is giving everyone a big middle finger if they don't like the way he does things. That kind of attitude can be beneficial but doesn't seem to really be working with this years team (at least not so far).

Your claim that "everyone" knew Gillepie was boss from day one might be true but then agian it might not. Perhaps the most important group that needed to understand it, the players, didn;t. We have NO way of knowing this. It would seemm by some of our coaCHES ACTIONS THAT PERHAPS THAT MESSAGE HAS YET TO SINK HOME WITH A PORTION OF OUR TEAM. By the way another poster claimed that establishing your self as the undisputed leader as coach is a "compulsion" No it is a NECESSITY.

[catsfan20]

To the best of my knowledge UK's practices are closed to reporters, correct? How does LV know what is going on in practice? I am going to have to give someone with BG's track record the benefit of the doubt. If he is sending Stewart a message that he will not play in the game unless he works hard enough in practice, why does anyone have a problem with this? I thought the goal was to have UK get back to competing for NC's again. With the injuries that have occurred, we may not make the tourney this year (I happen to think we will), but if that is the cost of getting the ship righted and getting UK back to where we want to be, then so be it. It almost seems like a lot of the fans and media want BG to change the way he does things because of a few injuries, or because someone appears to be talented enough to be above BG's way of doing things (i.e. Bozich talking about Crawford, and LV talking about Stewart).

I for one would rather BG do things the way he sees fit, and let's see where it takes us. I assume with a brand new system, and a brand new way of doing things for these players, that it might take longer than 8 games to see the results we will like.

I am betting the BG gets the job done, but either way, I am going to go with a longer trial period than 8 games with a depleted roster to determine if his method is correct. Again, JMO.

GO CATS!!!

[jkeller]

Your claim that "everyone" knew Gillepie was boss from day one might be true but then agian it might not. Perhaps the most important group that needed to understand it, the players, didn;t. We have NO way of knowing this. It would seemm by some of our coaCHES ACTIONS THAT PERHAPS THAT MESSAGE HAS YET TO SINK HOME WITH A PORTION OF OUR TEAM. By the way another poster claimed that establishing your self as the undisputed leader as coach is a "compulsion" No it is a NECESSITY.

You assume that "buying into a system" is something that someone can do in the length of a finger snap. Gillispie is not coaching the same guys he has for the past 3 years, he has a new job. The players are not playing for the same guy they've played for for the past 3 years, thus they have a new job. When you start a new job you are not immediately in your comfort zone and there's no magic button you can push to immediately make you an expert at it. The main challenge of buying into a system is actually learning it. They've had two months to try to adjust. It takes longer than that.

[reggis]

From Vaught:

"It was Gillispie, not Smith, who put the team through another strenuous practice Saturday morning only a few hours before the Cats played UAB. Did that have anything to do with UK fading in the final 10 minutes?"

You've got to be kidding. How much are we paying him for this kind of leadership? IF we were 12 deep I still don't see it but given how thin we are this is ludicrous. I have come to the conclusion that Gillespie doesn't care if he wins games this year or not, he's got some kind of compulsion to establish that he's THE MAN.


I agree with Vaught and also believe Clyde is a control freak that may do him in at UK unless he adapts to higher level skilled players.

[bevcat]

What bothers me about BCG is that he stated when he was introduced as our coach that he didn't adhere to one particular system. Instead, he was flexible and would implement a system to complement the type of players that he had on the team and one which would yield the most number of wins.

Well, this is NOT what we are seeing right now. Just the opposite is true. It is appears that BCG is implementing a very rigid system that he refuses to make any adjustments to, even if it is evident that the strategies are just not working. He seems to be willing to lose games to make a point, regardless how senseless that point is. If he is a long term plan, I wish he would share it with us, because right now, his plan doesn't look like a very good one!

[wanderingcat]

It is mentioned often that the players have not bought into the system. I suppose this is based to a large part on who starts a game and not who finishes? How do we really know they have not, but being a less talented team than in the past, it is an excuse for the way the current season has gone?

[crazzedcats22]

What bothers me about BCG is that he stated when he was introduced as our coach that he didn't adhere to one particular system. Instead, he was flexible and would implement a system to complement the type of players that he had on the team and one which would yield the most number of wins.

Well, this is NOT what we are seeing right now. Just the opposite is true. It is appears that BCG is implementing a very rigid system that he refuses to make any adjustments to, even if it is evident that the strategies are just not working. He seems to be willing to lose games to make a point, regardless how senseless that point is. If he is a long term plan, I wish he would share it with us, because right now, his plan doesn't look like a very good one!

Great point. I remember vividly that he talked about his flexibilty and would make changes to fit and adapt to this team. He hasn't done ANY of that. It's one way (his way) and if people don't like it it's basically f you then. Not sure what he's trying to prove but it does seem like he doesn't care if we lose as long as his point gets across. Now, I'm sure that's not the case but it's just been strange so far.

[RaleighCat]

I agree with Vaught and also believe Clyde is a control freak that may do him in at UK unless he adapts to higher level skilled players.

I have a major problem with your comment "Higher Level Skilled Players."

When BCG took over at TX A&M in 2004-05, he inherited a team that went 7-21 the year before (including 0-16 in Big 12 play).

However, on that team were two future Lottery Picks in Antoine Wright and Acie Law IV. Wright left early for the NBA after 2005 as a junior and Law finished his career before going #11 to the Hawks in last year's draft. Both were All Conference players, Law was an All American talent.

TX A&M went 21-10 in '05 (with both Wright and Law) and 27-7 last year (led by Law). Throw in 22-9 inbetween and BCG did OK. In fact, A&M was 30-57 in the three years before Gillispie arrived; they were 70-26 in Gillispie's three year tenure.

So, are you trying to tell us that Coach Gillispie can't handle "Higher Level Skilled Players?" By my count he's coached two players (Wright/Law) that were drafted higher than ANYONE TUBBY SMITH EVER COACHED! Please, get your facts straight before you try to railroad our coach.

[RP_McMurphy]

Not this article.

[AugustaDan]

I have a major problem with your comment "Higher Level Skilled Players."

When BCG took over at TX A&M in 2004-05, he inherited a team that went 7-21 the year before (including 0-16 in Big 12 play).

However, on that team were two future Lottery Picks in Antoine Wright and Acie Law IV. Wright left early for the NBA after 2005 as a junior and Law finished his career before going #11 to the Hawks in last year's draft. Both were All Conference players, Law was an All American talent.

TX A&M went 21-10 in '05 (with both Wright and Law) and 27-7 last year (led by Law). Throw in 22-9 inbetween and BCG did OK. In fact, A&M was 30-57 in the three years before Gillispie arrived; they were 70-26 in Gillispie's three year tenure.

So, are you trying to tell us that Coach Gillispie can't handle "Higher Level Skilled Players?" By my count he's coached two players (Wright/Law) that were drafted higher than ANYONE TUBBY SMITH EVER COACHED! Please, get your facts straight before you try to railroad our coach.
I was about to point that out but I don't think I could have done it half as well as you did. :)

I have wondered why Gillispie didn't just call the timeout. It didn't have to be Crawford calling it, right?

[ukbob]

I have a major problem with your comment "Higher Level Skilled Players."

When BCG took over at TX A&M in 2004-05, he inherited a team that went 7-21 the year before (including 0-16 in Big 12 play).

However, on that team were two future Lottery Picks in Antoine Wright and Acie Law IV. Wright left early for the NBA after 2005 as a junior and Law finished his career before going #11 to the Hawks in last year's draft. Both were All Conference players, Law was an All American talent.

TX A&M went 21-10 in '05 (with both Wright and Law) and 27-7 last year (led by Law). Throw in 22-9 inbetween and BCG did OK. In fact, A&M was 30-57 in the three years before Gillispie arrived; they were 70-26 in Gillispie's three year tenure.

So, are you trying to tell us that Coach Gillispie can't handle "Higher Level Skilled Players?" By my count he's coached two players (Wright/Law) that were drafted higher than ANYONE TUBBY SMITH EVER COACHED! Please, get your facts straight before you try to railroad our coach.

BINGO

[RP_McMurphy]

It is obvious that Billy G. had more talent at Texas A&M than he does right now at Kentucky. The fault with lies directly in the lap of Tubby Smith. Only 1 player on the current roster is Billy G's and he is the teams best player by far.

[Mark Blueblood]

It is obvious that Billy G. had more talent at Texas A&M than he does right now at Kentucky. The fault with lies directly in the lap of Tubby Smith. Only 1 player on the current roster is Billy G's and he is the teams best player by far.

Actually, the only player on the team that was Billy G's just left.

I realize your hatred of all things Tubby blinds your judgment, but Patterson was a Tubby recruit. No way around it.

[RaleighCat]

Actually, the only player on the team that was Billy G's just left.

I realize your hatred of all things Tubby blinds your judgment, but Patterson was a Tubby recruit. No way around it.

Patterson is going to have to be cut down the middle (like the King Solomon fable) because BOTH coaches deserve credit for landing him. No way around that reality, actually.

[NOWIS]

Actually, the only player on the team that was Billy G's just left.

I realize your hatred of all things Tubby blinds your judgment, but Patterson was a Tubby recruit. No way around it.

Since Patterson never committed to UK while Tubby was the coach, its a stretch to say he was a Tubby recruit, no way around it. Tubby was recruiting him, but he never closed the deal.

[ukwebfan]

I have a major problem with your comment "Higher Level Skilled Players."

When BCG took over at TX A&M in 2004-05, he inherited a team that went 7-21 the year before (including 0-16 in Big 12 play).

However, on that team were two future Lottery Picks in Antoine Wright and Acie Law IV. Wright left early for the NBA after 2005 as a junior and Law finished his career before going #11 to the Hawks in last year's draft. Both were All Conference players, Law was an All American talent.

TX A&M went 21-10 in '05 (with both Wright and Law) and 27-7 last year (led by Law). Throw in 22-9 inbetween and BCG did OK. In fact, A&M was 30-57 in the three years before Gillispie arrived; they were 70-26 in Gillispie's three year tenure.

So, are you trying to tell us that Coach Gillispie can't handle "Higher Level Skilled Players?" By my count he's coached two players (Wright/Law) that were drafted higher than ANYONE TUBBY SMITH EVER COACHED! Please, get your facts straight before you try to railroad our coach.First off, I think it's great BCG excels at developing players because as a HS Senior, Wright was a no show on Rivals' top 100 AND Hoop Scoop's top 300. Law came in at #212 on Hoop Scoop and like Wright, didn't make the grade on Rivals.

The rankings are certainly moot when you look at the type of talent these players demonstrated but don't you think UK recruits of this caliber would have fans in an uproar?

Billy's notoriety as a recruiter obviously came as an assistant at Illinois. Yet with numbers like these, he would be run out of Lexington after only a few seasons.

The best news is yet to come because if he can send unheralded recruits to the NBA, just think what might happen with Miller, Liggins and company.

Of course this means little to me since college championships are what I yearn for.

[Mark Blueblood]

Since Patterson never committed to UK while Tubby was the coach, its a stretch to say he was a Tubby recruit, no way around it. Tubby was recruiting him, but he never closed the deal.

Not a stretch at all. It was between Kentucky and Florida and when Tubby left - it was Florida, with Duke as a longshot. I'll give Gillespie credit for "closing the deal" - BUT...he gives credit to Tubby and Hobbs for having set the deal up. I'm just sick and tired of RP giving Gillespie total credit for this recruit when it ain't so. Legion was the ONLY true Gillespie recruit and he's gone.

I would still wager - as would a lot of other people - Patterson was coming to Kentucky has Tubby stayed. Sure, it wasn't a lock, but it was a probability.

[RP_McMurphy]

Patterson is exclusively Billy G's recruit. Tubby tried and tried to get his name on the dotted line and couldn't get it done. In fact I think once Tubby realized he couldn't sign him he started looking for employment elsewhere.

[wildcatnc]

I agree with Vaught and also believe Clyde is a control freak that may do him in at UK unless he adapts to higher level skilled players.


I believe if you read about Rupp or Pitino they are both considered control freaks. I promise that Roy Williams and Bill Self are control freaks too. They win with their players in their system. IF Roy Williams was not a control freak do you think he would have won the NC with Doherty's tallent? Doherty could recruit but was way to easy in practice from all the reports. I live in Carolina so trust me I hear about it all the time. I promise you that all the great coaches of our time are considered control freaks fro mpeople who do not agree with them (ex players, upset fans, etc)
Anyone know of a coach that is not considered a control freak? I believe that even Pearl down south is like that.

[wildcat74]

PP himslef has said that UK essentially fell off the map after Tubby left, yet, he never signed when tubby was here (perhaps knowing he'd leave). So for us to get a signature after being off the map, a LOT of credit has to go to BG.

[ukbob]

It is just plain foolhardy to think Tubby did not have a big impact on Patterson and his eventual signing. Gillispie wasn't even recruiting the kid when he was at A&M.

Would we have gotten Patterson anyway? Who knows and who cares but it was sure possible. And I would bet a Diet Coke Lucas would be here running the point. As for Patterson not committing to Tubby, well, he did not commit to ANYONE early and never planned to. He made it clear half way through his process he was waiting until the final day to announce. Cannot blame OTS for that one....sorry.

But Mark is correct. Gillispie closed the deal on Patrick, which is all that matters. As for Legion.....this was a late Gillispie only recruit. Was being the operative word since he is gone.

It really is a non-issue, IMO. Patterson was a great get no matter who got him. But I would have loved to have gotten Lucas as well...but I digress.

[poodoo]

Without getting into more details, folks should be able to figure out what Patrick would have LIKELY done IF ONLY he were truly to listen to EVERYTHING all the Pattersons said from the beginning to to the end of Patrick's recruitment (and their worries about Patrick's signing early, in particular--a VERY SHARP family, in my opinion). All that evidence of quotes from "the horse's mouth" is all it takes for me to know how I would bet, for sure, and I find it hard to believe some of the stuff I read from some posters in that regard. :icon_lol: Go figure. :shrug1:

Most of all, though, as ukbob says, besides none of us knowing for certain, WHO CARES! Coach Gillispie, thankfully, signed the young man (after...and I just won't quote the details there, either :icon_lol:). I just wish all of us fans could be UNITED and start SUPPORTING these players as much as possible, not caring about who played what role in their recruitment or the past itself, period. These guys (and THIS coach) need our support NOW! GO CATS! GO COACH G!

[kyrgaines]

I know I don't have to read it, but I can't believe I'm reading arguments over who deserves credit over landing Patterson. It would make sense if it were who to blame for not signing him, if even that. We truly are the most fanatical fanbase in college sports, or even all sports for that matter.

As far as this team, I think there are a stack of issues that belong to OTS, but there is a different stack of items I think belongs to BCG. Tubby isn't responsible for decisions being made on the court but does have a part in who is on the court, or a lackthereof.

I proclaimed "no expectations" for myself in regards to this year's team but I have to admit that I am astonished by the outcome thus far and believe we are in unchartered territory. My question to this coach is, if we don't have the guns to run, why are we running??? I think we should play a tempo more suitable for our situation but we run like were 1996. The fact that we or playing this fast of an offense and not utilizing what we have for a bench is mind-boggling. I like what he has to say on the radio, his offense makes sense, the defense is horrible, but if he knows all this, why isn't he adjusting?

[Mark Blueblood]

It is just plain foolhardy to think Tubby did not have a big impact on Patterson and his eventual signing. Gillispie wasn't even recruiting the kid when he was at A&M.

Would we have gotten Patterson anyway? Who knows and who cares but it was sure possible. And I would bet a Diet Coke Lucas would be here running the point. As for Patterson not committing to Tubby, well, he did not commit to ANYONE early and never planned to. He made it clear half way through his process he was waiting until the final day to announce. Cannot blame OTS for that one....sorry.

But Mark is correct. Gillispie closed the deal on Patrick, which is all that matters. As for Legion.....this was a late Gillispie only recruit. Was being the operative word since he is gone.

It really is a non-issue, IMO. Patterson was a great get no matter who got him. But I would have loved to have gotten Lucas as well...but I digress.

Appreciate the backup my friend.

[BigblueDrew]

Appreciate the backup my friend. However, one must consider the delusional source that caused the defense in the first place!

Why don't you and RP take this to the private message board, the only thing more tiresome than the endless Tubby debate is your continious snide remarks aimed at those that were vocal in thier criticism of Tubby when he was here.

[leroybyrd]

Why don't you and RP take this to the private message board, the only thing more tiresome than the endless Tubby debate is your continious snide remarks aimed at those that were vocal in thier criticism of Tubby when he was here.

The only reason it is an endless debate is because some on this board have extreme hatred for a man that no reasonable person would or should hate. It doesn't make sense to most and therefore conjours strong emotions in some others to defend him.

[Gunsmoke]

BINGO
Second that Bingo.

[Gunsmoke]

As far as Tubby goes I love the man, but the fact is for a major high level program like ours the cupboard was left with a lot of free space.

[Craig the Blueheart]

This thread is headed nowhere good. Please get back on topic and stop the finger pointing, or we will have to lock down yet another thread with the same, recurring theme.

[Gunsmoke]

Craig I have decided that I am going to park at your house before the MCB game and ride with you to the tailgate. How I get back over after the game would be anyone's guess.:icon_mrgreen:

[Craig the Blueheart]

Craig I have decided that I am going to park at your house before the MCB game and ride with you to the tailgate. How I get back over after the game would be anyone's guess.:icon_mrgreen:

You are welcome to do that. I have about 10 idiots that I am in charge of that morning, but I will get them all up... the transportation could get interesting if we add many more... but we always will have roof space.

[Littlemeyer]

You are welcome to do that. I have about 10 idiots that I am in charge of that morning, but I will get them all up... the transportation could get interesting if we add many more... but we always will have roof space.

Make that 11 idiots. I just found out yesterday that I have tickets to the game, so I'll crash your party too. :icon_mrgreen:

[Craig the Blueheart]

Make that 11 idiots. I just found out yesterday that I have tickets to the game, so I'll crash your party too. :icon_mrgreen:

It is always good to have more good idiots like myself around... come one, come all!

[Gunsmoke]

With my sordid past:eek: :shock:I would venture to say I would be the most experienced idiot of the bunch!!:icon_lol:

[Mark Blueblood]

Why don't you and RP take this to the private message board, the only thing more tiresome than the endless Tubby debate is your continious snide remarks aimed at those that were vocal in thier criticism of Tubby when he was here.

The operative word in your response is "Tubby when he was here". I'm at a loss as to why the criticism continues.

But you're absolutely right. I'll end my portion of this ongoing debate, although leroybyrd's response pretty well covers my motive. For those who want to continue the debate - so be it. I'm done.

We have a new coach and a new regime and it appears we have enough to discuss without bringing prior coach's into the discussion.

Your point is well taken.