Question for the Bourbon connoisuers

[Grub]

I was in Schnucks in Evansville this past weekend and ventured into their wine and spirits department. They had a nice selection of bourbons ~ Buffalo Trace, Woodford Reserve, Elijah Craig, etc. I usually keep a bottle of Woodford Reserve and/or Elijah Craig around the house and I consider these good quality bourbons. They also had one I'd never heard of - "Old Pogue" - that was about $7-$8 dollars more than anything else. Do you really get what you pay for when it comes to bourbon?

[surveyor]

IMO, it's largely subjective. I've had some van Winkle offerings I liked very well, but the 20 YO Old Family Reserve, while it tastes good, isn't good enough that I would spend $95 for it.
I recall an article a few years ago in which there was an intense debate among 3 or 4 "experts" as to whether a bourbon benefits from aging beyond 6 - 8 years. They seemed to agree that aging to 10-12 years yielded a fine bourbon. Beyond that there was disagreement. IIRC, 2 felt that little to no additional benefit came from aging a bourbon beyond 12 years, opining that the 15, 20 and older offerings seemed little much better than those aged at 10 or 12. One even felt the flavor characteristics actually suffered because it was more subdued or muted.

Certainly it depends on one's palate and preference, and there's really no hard and fast rule.

[Jeff Craddock]

IMO, it's largely subjective. I've had some van Winkle offerings I liked very well, but the 20 YO Old Family Reserve, while it tastes good, isn't good enough that I would spend $95 for it.
I recall an article a few years ago in which there was an intense debate among 3 or 4 "experts" as to whether a bourbon benefits from aging beyond 6 - 8 years. They seemed to agree that aging to 10-12 years yielded a fine bourbon. Beyond that there was disagreement. IIRC, 2 felt that little to no additional benefit came from aging a bourbon beyond 12 years, opining that the 15, 20 and older offerings seemed little much better than those aged at 10 or 12. One even felt the flavor characteristics actually suffered because it was more subdued or muted.

Certainly it depends on one's palate and preference, and there's really no hard and fast rule.

Interesting. I have two bottles of bourbon in my cabinet. One is the Pappy Van Winkle 20 year-old, the other is Rare Breed. The former cost $75 appx., the Rare Breed was substantially less. Of the two, I much prefer the Rare Breed. It's richer and more complex, whereas the Pappy, while good, does seem muted, as if it had lost much of its mojo....

I don't think bourbon ages as well as scotch. The 30+ year-old single malts I've had are nothing short of sublime.

[surveyor]

I don't think bourbon ages as well as scotch. The 30+ year-old single malts I've had are nothing short of sublime.

Of the aged (better than 12 YO) bourbons and the similarly aged or older scotches I've had, I'd tend to agree.

One thing I've noticed is older spirits are best consumed `neat' in order to get the most out of the flavor. Ice furthers the potential towards blandness.

This is particularly true with premium tequillas and rums. :thumbup:

[KY Blue in Carolina]

It is up to individual taste.... but generally yes, I do think there are premiums well worth the price. Barrel proof William Larue Weller and Black Maple Hill 16 come to mind. Four Roses Single Barrel is a GREAT value when you can find that.

Old Pogue is very good - one I 1st sampled at a WCN Bourbon tasting. I think you'll find it worth 8 bucks more - give it a try. If you don't like it - send it on to me!

[surveyor]

A rule of thumb I've found useful for weeding out bourbons is to buy a small bottle (750ml) of one that may hold my interest and have 3 or so drinks (2 oz ea either neat or on rocks w/ splash of water) spread out over a 2 - 3 hour period. If I have a headache the following morning, my wife inherits the rest for her whiskey sours, lol.

[Grub]

Thank you guys for the insight. I had never heard of "Old Pogue" before and didn't want take a chance on a complete unknown. I'm in the process of finishing an Elijah Craig 18 Year Old Single Barrel that I much prefer over my last Woodford Reserve - it might be the best bourbon I've ever had.

[Levi]

Thank you guys for the insight. I had never heard of "Old Pogue" before and didn't want take a chance on a complete unknown. I'm in the process of finishing an Elijah Craig 18 Year Old Single Barrel that I much prefer over my last Woodford Reserve - it might be the best bourbon I've ever had.

If the Old Pogue was displayed in a saddle made from three pieces of oak, I helped make that saddle last year. :big_grin:

The best bourbon I have ever tasted was Wild Turkey twelve year old I had Pappy 20 year old recently for the second time and I prefer the Turkey. Alas it is not made anymore.

[Grub]

Any input on a bourbon called "Booker Noe's"? My brother-in-law was raving about it.

It's an odd name but easily remembered. :icon_mrgreen:

[surveyor]

Any input on a bourbon called "Booker Noe's"? My brother-in-law was raving about it.

It's an odd name but easily remembered. :icon_mrgreen:

I'm assuming you're referencing "Booker's"?

http://beamglobal.com/libraries/cm_brands/Bookers_bottle_new.png

Fine bourbon. Even though it's around 127 proof, it's good neat, or, on the rocks with a splash of water or not.:thumbup:

[boomdaddy]

For me, there is nothing more relaxing than a double bourbon and a nice hand rolled cigar. I keep premium bourbon, for when close friends stop by. I also keep an affordable bourbon, Elijah Craig 12 yr old. Bookers is my favorite, but there are a few I haven't tried yet. Evan Williams single barrel, at $25 to 27 a bottle is my best buy pick.

By the way, if you want to see a true bourbon lover cry, like that american indian in that old pollution comercial of the 70's, just mix some nice single barrel with some soda in front of him.

[UK Lola]

Grub, I don't know where Monroe City is, but if it's close to Louisville, here's a copy-n-paste of a post I made on a similiar thread a long time ago-

"You are fairly close to Louisville.It has some "bourbon bars" that are perfect for bourbon tasting. They serve various bourbon selections in "flights" that provide for great side-by-side tasting comparisons. Two that come to mind are Bourbon's Bistro on Frankfort Avenue, and Makers Mark Bourbon House and Lounge at 4th Street Live. Both are a bit pricey, but my experience with both has been positive."

[Matt Dillon]

I don't drink much anymore. Usually just a nightcap if I feel I'm going to have trouble sleeping. Having said that, Irish whiskey or Scotch are my favorites. This probably goes back many years ago to when I drank more than I should, but my favorite bourbon is Jack Daniel black label. Black Jack as it is affectionately known.

[boomdaddy]

I don't drink much anymore. Usually just a nightcap if I feel I'm going to have trouble sleeping. Having said that, Irish whiskey or Scotch are my favorites. This probably goes back many years ago to when I drank more than I should, but my favorite bourbon is Jack Daniel black label. Black Jack as it is affectionately known.

Jack is not bourbon. It is Tenn whiskey.

All bourbon is a type of whiskey, but all whiskey is not bourbon.

Another example is Rye, a type of whiskey, but it is not bourbon.

[Matt Dillon]

What then is Jack?

[Matt Dillon]

I think I answered my own question It says sour mash on the bottle.

[jwade]

I think I answered my own question It says sour mash on the bottle.

No, bourbon is made from sour mash as well.

Bourbon whisky must, by law, comply with the following:
Mash must be at least 51% corn.
Must be distilled at no more than 160 proof.
Must be aged in new, charred White Oak barrels.
Must be stored at no more than 125 proof.
Must be bottled at not less than 80 proof
Nothing other than water can be added.
Must be aged at least two years in order to be labeled "Straight Bourbon Whisky."Jack Daniel's No. 7 isn't a bourbon because it undergoes a charcoal filtering process. This filtering process adds a sweetness which, as stated in rule #6 above, isn't permitted in bourbons.

George Dickel No. 12 is produced by a process similar to Jack Daniel's.

Jack Daniel's and George Dickel are frequently referred to as Tennessee Whiskies.

Other than the charcoal filtering process, both Daniel's and Dickel are very similar to bourbon.


Jim

[boomdaddy]

If one wants to be a purist about the whole thing, then it also has to be made in Kentucky to be called bourbon. Champagne has to be made in the Champagne region of France and Scotch must be made in Scotland.

[Matt Dillon]

Thanks all for the info. Very enlightening.

[jwade]

If one wants to be a purist about the whole thing, then it also has to be made in Kentucky to be called bourbon.

No, that's an urban legend. Federal regulations permit whiskies made in other states to put "bourbon" on the label as long as it meets the production standards. But there aren't many non-Kentucky bourbons out there. I think A. Smith Bowman is still in business, and may be the only one.


Jim

[UKSam]

I was in Schnucks in Evansville this past weekend and ventured into their wine and spirits department. They had a nice selection of bourbons ~ Buffalo Trace, Woodford Reserve, Elijah Craig, etc. I usually keep a bottle of Woodford Reserve and/or Elijah Craig around the house and I consider these good quality bourbons. They also had one I'd never heard of - "Old Pogue" - that was about $7-$8 dollars more than anything else. Do you really get what you pay for when it comes to bourbon?

I think that Pogue is a very good bourbon. I typically drink this, Knob Creek and Woodford reserve. They all have their own taste but I think that Pogue is the "smoothest" of the three. I was given a bottle of Russell's 10 yr reserve and found it to be pretty good as well.

If you are in Evansville and can stay. Go eat at the Firefly. They keep about 40 different bourbons in stock and occasionally have samplings. As far as bourbon prices in Evansville. CVS Drug Store is the most reasonable. Not a huge selection but the do keep Knob, and Woodford stocked.

[KY Blue in Carolina]

No, that's an urban legend. Federal regulations permit whiskies made in other states to put "bourbon" on the label as long as it meets the production standards. But there aren't many non-Kentucky bourbons out there. I think A. Smith Bowman is still in business, and may be the only one.


JimYou are absolutely correct. A Smith Bowman, in Fredricksbug, Virginia, still produces Virginia Gentleman bourbon - the only bourbon produced outside of the state of Kentucky today.

[UKSam]

You are absolutely correct. A Smith Bowman, in Fredricksbug, Virginia, still produces Virginia Gentleman bourbon - the only bourbon produced outside of the state of Kentucky today.

Still a Commonwealth. I guess that is ok.

[jwade]

One manages to pick up a thing or two when one is married to the granddaughter of a Master Distiller for 27 years (and counting). :cool:


Jim

[moody85]

Something to look for in one's friendly neighborhood liquor store:

Bernheim Wheat Whiskey. It's expensive but worth it, definitely a sippin' whiskey. It's fine enough that it was a gift to jwade for Valentine's Day.

:thumbup: