Bud Mackey,,,

[freethrow]

Have I missed something? On Bud Mackey's Myspace Page he has a message that says, Kentucky Wildcats here I come. Is Coach G talking to this young man?

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=38857255

[ChrisB60]

If so, he needs a Zero Tolerance policy.... Hes young he made mistakes and deserves a second chance... I would take him if I were BCG, who knows, he could work miracles with that kid! Would have to submit to drug testing.

[needmore44]

I hope that this is all a big jump to conclusions on are part. I don't want this kid. Isn't the quote cited to "C Court"? I don't want this to be one of our scholarships. Why Bud Mackey and not Hopson?

[Matt Dillon]

This doesn't pass the smell test with me. The last I heard, the Grand Jury was going to indite him on drug charges. I know it's a long time until next season and, if found guilty, he could get probation.

[RP_McMurphy]

Much less the University of Kentucky. He is trouble and Kentucky needs to stay far, far away from this guy.

[The Black Watch]

This perplexes me. From his myspace headline, it looks like it's a done deal. But, I just don't believe it. But then I see Roshawn McCloud(sp?) listed as a friend. And I seem to remember that McCloud is now, in some way, affliated with our basketball team. ??? Did McCloud play some part in recruiting this kid? Is he a secret agent, sent by Coach Ky3rertheruhsky to destroy our fine basketball school? :confused::confused::confused: I must be stuck in bizzaro world, or something. Nothing about this makes any sense.

[ChattyKat]

Much less the University of Kentucky. He is trouble and Kentucky needs to stay far, far away from this guy.

Bingo. This may be wishful thinking on his part.

[freethrow]

You know, we don't know that he is "trouble" anymore? That young man may have been scared straight and now goes on to be a fine young man and player? Sure, there is the chance that by him not getting hard time ut could spoil him even more, but if it were your kid I think you would consider all he has been through since being busted and want him to get a break. Maybe more community service or some such for a couple years or something is all. :shrug1:

[Terry L. Wildcat]

IMHO we do not need Michael Southall revisited.

[bevcat]

I doubt if Mackey would have posted such a bold statement without having some kind of contact with UK. Though I would prefer UK to stay away from this young man, our justice system dictates that one is presumed innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your peers. As of yet, he has been indicted, but a trial date has not been set. If he is found guilty, then UK should NOT recruit Mackey. We have a storied program that does not need to be blemished by the recuitment of a convicted felon.

Surely, BCG knows he would get a lot of criticism for Mackey's recruitment. Don't you think that BCG would need Barnhart's approval before he could offer Mackey a scholly?

[blue35]

Could he possibly be saying he is coming to Kentucky to play against the cats?

[golflender]

maybe he's been offered a chance to walk on? just guessing who knows

[cnice11]

maybe he's been offered a chance to walk on? just guessing who knows

I think it would be a no brainer to take him if he offered to walk on.

[Wildcat5369]

I doubt if Mackey would have posted such a bold statement without having some kind of contact with UK. Though I would prefer UK to stay away from this young man, our justice system dictates that one is presumed innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your peers. As of yet, he has been indicted, but a trial date has not been set. If he is found guilty, then UK should NOT recruit Mackey. We have a storied program that does not need to be blemished by the recuitment of a convicted felon.

Surely, BCG knows he would get a lot of criticism for Mackey's recruitment. Don't you think that BCG would need Barnhart's approval before he could offer Mackey a scholly?

Yeah, nobody would mislead the media or fans in where they are going to school. Just like the kid that committed to Cal for football...lol
http://www.wildcatnation.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36196

[Cal_tucky]

A kid makes a mistake...a bad one...but yeah he doesn't deserve to play collegiate basketball and try to get his life straightened out...man c'mon people, innocent until proven guilty.

[dwarfdorin]

Only way I would let him in the building is as a walk-on and evrn then I wouldn't be sure. If, once the case was settled, he is fond guilty he is gone from the team no ifs, ands or buts.

:widcat::widcat: Go CATS!!!

[needmore44]

A kid makes a mistake...a bad one...but yeah he doesn't deserve to play collegiate basketball and try to get his life straightened out...man c'mon people, innocent until proven guilty.

He can get his life straightened out all he wants, but playing at the University of Kentucky is a privilege and a dream of many kids. Only the honorable should be given an opportunity.

As for innocent until guilty. Being caught on school grounds with cocaine is pretty dispecable even if you don't intend on selling it.

[needmore44]

Apparently Matt Jones reads the board:

(2) BUD MACKEY?: At times trying to understand this Spring’s UK recruiting has been like trying to follow a Dennis Miller analogy….the more you try to grasp, the less you comprehend. Tonight Billy Clyde said the Cats need to pick up a big scoring wing player and most thought that meant that Scotty Hopson was the target of the comment. But rumblings are also coming that UK might be looking at Bud Mackey, yes that Bud Mackey…the young man who was arrested for a drug offense and has been dropped from his scholarship offer at Indiana….a school not exactly on the recruiting front line of cleanliness at this time. Mackey’s arrest always took me off guard as he seemed like a likable kid and today his Myspace site (which is where all the REAL news comes from these days) says “Kentucky Wildcats Here I Come.” Now the meaning of this could of course be wide and many are obviously jumping to conclusions to think that he is certainly now a Cat. But UK did once try and get involved with Bud and he is close to some on the team. If Mackey is given a chance by UK coaches, what would that mean? He is a local kid but one that comes with a LOT of baggage. Is he worth the risk….that is a question that may be hotly debated in coming weeks.

[Cal_tucky]

He can get his life straightened out all he wants, but playing at the University of Kentucky is a privilege and a dream of many kids. Only the honorable should be given an opportunity.

As for innocent until guilty. Being caught on school grounds with cocaine is pretty dispecable even if you don't intend on selling it.


I didn't know we had the Supreme Court playing on our basketball team.."only the honorable", c'mon that is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. So the dude wanted a little taste of the 'caine, big deal, I'm not asking him to come here on a D.A.R.E scholarship I just want him to 'ball.

[cnice11]

Allen Iverson was seen as trouble too. But he has straightened his life out and had an excellent career. All because he got a second chance. Like someone else said I think he should be on a tight leash though. One bar brawl, drug possession, PI, etc., he's gone.

[The Black Watch]

I didn't know we had the Supreme Court playing on our basketball team.."only the honorable", c'mon that is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. So the dude wanted a little taste of the 'caine, big deal, I'm not asking him to come here on a D.A.R.E scholarship I just want him to 'ball.

I hope you're joking. You are, right? Man, even if he's found innocent, and all charges are dropped, he will still have a mark against him. I'm pretty open-minded, but most aren't. I'm all for second chances, and not dwelling on the past. But with the bad press we have had lately, why risk making it even worse by taking this kid? It wouldn't be a good thing to be know as the UL football of the basketball world. Take every crook and felon, as long as they can play. You know the Willie Williams thing would be thrown up in our faces. OT, I always thought that Mackey should have been caught with weed and not coke. Then we would really have known why he is called "Bud". :icon_mrgreen:

[freethrow]

I hope you're joking. You are, right? Man, even if he's found innocent, and all charges are dropped, he will still have a mark against him. I'm pretty open-minded, but most aren't. I'm all for second chances, and not dwelling on the past. But with the bad press we have had lately, why risk making it even worse by taking this kid? It wouldn't be a good thing to be know as the UL football of the basketball world. Take every crook and felon, as long as they can play. You know the Willie Williams thing would be thrown up in our faces. OT, I always thought that Mackey should have been caught with weed and not coke. Then we would really have known why he is called "Bud". :icon_mrgreen:

Players all over the country have previous drug charges against them. The media doesn't hound them too much. Look at Mayo as an example and there are countless other players that had similar happen in their lives. Sure, seeing how it is UK there may be a bit more media noise but if he is the best option we can land then I can deal with what comes because of it.

[The Black Watch]

Players all over the country have previous drug charges against them. The media doesn't hound them too much. Look at Mayo as an example and there are countless other players that had similar happen in their lives. Sure, seeing how it is UK there may be a bit more media noise but if he is the best option we can land then I can deal with what comes because of it.

You are correct about the number of players that have ties to controlled substances. If it were marijaunna, that would be one thing. But trafficing, especially narcotics, is a greater offense than, say, possession of marijuanna. Which is what most of these kids are linked to. Possession of narcotics, with intent to sell, is a serious issue. I certainly hope the kid isn't guilty. I hope everything works out for him. If he wants to come, and BCG wants him, then fine. I think he knows what he's doing. But this one just looks like it could blow up in our faces.

[Cal_tucky]

I hope the same people who want to crucify this kid for making some bad judgements will take the same stance once/if more light is shed on the off-the-court behavior of our beloved coach.

Again, I'm all for second chances and I think Mackey did a good thing by getting away from all of that and moving to the 'Natti.

[flacat22]

Allen Iverson was seen as trouble too. But he has straightened his life out and had an excellent career. All because he got a second chance. Like someone else said I think he should be on a tight leash though. One bar brawl, drug possession, PI, etc., he's gone.

Oh theres a great example...Google "Allen Iverson arrests..." :icon_rolleyes:

http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/j/S/iverson_a.jpg

[sardiscat]

Isn't it the case that anybody can make a post on somebody's MySpace site? It would be pretty funny if so many folks were getting so worked up over a post that wasn't even made by Mackey.

[Will Lavender]

I hope the same people who want to crucify this kid for making some bad judgements will take the same stance once/if more light is shed on the off-the-court behavior of our beloved coach.

I'm not sure drug trafficking qualifies as "bad judgement."

[indycat]

I'm not sure drug trafficking qualifies as "bad judgement."

yeah...just "bad".

[DonnieKat]

I may be in the minority, but I say bring him on and keep him on a tight leash. No one on this board (including me) knows the extenuating circumstances surrounding Bud's arrest. We know nothing about his social circle, education, upbringing, etc. Everyone deserves a second chance including Bud Mackey.

[jkeller]

I'm sure glad that none of us have made one mistake in our lives that would bar us from being contributing members of society today....:icon_rolleyes:

He made a mistake, he's paying for it now. Maybe he's learned from his mistake and will never touch drugs again. Maybe he will not learn and continue to get in trouble. But none of us know that for sure. You all assume that he will continue to use and sell drugs at UK if he comes here, you don't know that for sure.

He's a hell of a player, if he wants to come play here then I'm all for letting him, and keeping him on a short leash. If he keeps out of trouble then he can be a very valuable asset to our team. There are many players that have been given second chances that have worked out well for both them and their team. Remember Jules Camara? Rules said he should have been shown the door after his DUI. But he was allowed a second chance and was a key asset to the team and was afforded the chance to finish his education.

[ChrisB60]

The point is, Drugs are a deterrent and this guy is somewhat of damaged goods, but he could be a blessing in disguise, he sees Coach G working with him and mentoring him, that could mean a lot to a guy. I say give him another shot at this. I mean hell if I had been held back from mistakes in my past I wouldn;t be where I am at today. Though those mistakes were not drug related or being arrested.

[RCS]

I think the bigger question is if he will be in jail. I don't think there is much use in discussing this until we find that out. If he is not guilting I see no reason not to take him and if he is he will be serving time next year not playing for UK. This isn't like a pot posession where he gets probation and we move on. He is either not guilty or in jail.

[NC Cat]

A drug trafficker with a first name of Bud? Maybe there's something to that divine providence stuff after all. ;)

[MakeItEight]

How about if Bud is willing to walk-on for a year and after that point Coach G determines if he has cleaned up and then decides whether to offer him a scholy? :shrug1:

[Matt Dillon]

I'm not trying to stir the pot here but I wonder, if Mackey wasn't such an outstanding prospect, how many of the posters that are for giving him a second chance would still feel the way they do.

[jkeller]

I'm not trying to stir the pot here but I wonder, if Mackey wasn't such an outstanding prospect, how many of the posters that are for giving him a second chance would still feel the way they do.

I would absolutely feel the same way. All people, no matter, their athletic ability, deserve a second chance.

[LiveBlue]

I am very, very iffy on this one. On one hand, it is extremely risky to bring on someone with this much baggage. Drug trafficing is a serious charge. He could get put away for a long time if found guilty. But, for Gillispie to be recruiting him regardless, you have to assume that the charges are going to be dropped or something.

On the other hand, this guy is just a kid. He made a mistake. It has yet to be seen whether or not he has learned from his mistake and changed or not. And it's not up to us whether or not to judge that. If Coach Gillispie thinks he can bring this kid on, and teach him not only about the game, but also about life and how to be a good person, who are we to say no? If Coach G wants to try to get this kid in shape and help turn his life around, I say go for it.

[Cal_tucky]

I'm not sure drug trafficking qualifies as "bad judgement."


Will, it's ALLEGED drug trafficking, let's not bring anything slanderous to the discussion. :icon_lol:

[freethrow]

You are correct about the number of players that have ties to controlled substances. If it were marijaunna, that would be one thing. But trafficing, especially narcotics, is a greater offense than, say, possession of marijuanna. Which is what most of these kids are linked to. Possession of narcotics, with intent to sell, is a serious issue. I certainly hope the kid isn't guilty. I hope everything works out for him. If he wants to come, and BCG wants him, then fine. I think he knows what he's doing. But this one just looks like it could blow up in our faces.

Were he an adult it would make a bigger difference I think. I was a semi hippie in the 60's and I wouldn't have gotten busted any worse for a couple dozen tabs of speed or acid or LSD when I was 16 than a couple of joints in my pocket. Kids get a break and they should IMO. I am hoping he gets a break and a chance to prove himself where ever he plays ball.

[sardiscat]

"I'm not trying to stir the pot here but I wonder, if Mackey wasn't such an outstanding prospect, how many of the posters that are for giving him a second chance would still feel the way they do."

Bong! We have a winner. Any dope can see that the "outstanding prospect" aspect makes all the difference.

[Doctor Zhivago]

you know, this would almost be like the Willie Williams saga with Louisville football ......

[Blue Heaven]

We don't know the whole story. Sure what we've read about Mackey makes us think he's this terrible person. How do we know that someone said,"Here, Bud take these over there to that person and I'll give you some money for your trouble", or something to that effect. Assumptions and pre-conceived notions has made a fool out of many.:icon_idea:

[ukbob]

Pass.

Please.

[needmore44]

I didn't know we had the Supreme Court playing on our basketball team.."only the honorable", c'mon that is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. So the dude wanted a little taste of the 'caine, big deal, I'm not asking him to come here on a D.A.R.E scholarship I just want him to 'ball.

You're post sounds like you should be throwing the L's up. Kentucky is a class program. We don't take kids who want the 'caine. Kentucky should be an honor to play for and I don't want any player who doesn't think the same. As for him getting away from it in the natti, I don't know the last time you went to downtown Cincinnati, but he got away from nothing. Scott County's drug problem is a little dwarfed by Cincy. Even Kelvin Sampson has passed on this kid for god's sake.

[jkeller]

You're post sounds like you should be throwing the L's up. Kentucky is a class program. We don't take kids who want the 'caine. Kentucky should be an honor to play for and I don't want any player who doesn't think the same. As for him getting away from it in the natti, I don't know the last time you went to downtown Cincinnati, but he got away from nothing. Scott County's drug problem is a little dwarfed by Cincy. Even Kelvin Sampson has passed on this kid for god's sake.

First of all, Kelvin Sampson is in trouble because of some unauthorized phone calls, not because he is a morally reprehensible person. Secondly, Sampson pulled his scholarship pretty much directly after he got arrested, so the fact that Mackey could have changed his entire life in the aftermath had no affect on Sampson's decision. Thirdly, not everyone who lives in Cincinnati is a drugged out loser. And fourthly, the Kentucky program is not so high and mighty as to be immune from kids who have been involved in drugs. Remember Dirk Minnifield? He got high the night before a very important game.

[Cal_tucky]

Needmore,

So were you calling for Gerald Fitch and Eric Daniels to be kicked off after using fake ID's. Were you calling for Jules Camara to be kicked off after getting a DUI. I guess you weren't sorry to see Jason Parker go after getting caught smoking dope the 10th time. How about when Chuck Hayes was wrongfully accussed of rape, did you want to see his pics, jerseys, and stats wiped off before the truth came out?

[needmore44]

Thirdly, not everyone who lives in Cincinnati is a drugged out loser.

My point was that he certainly not escaping coke by moving to Cincinnati.

[needmore44]

Needmore,
So were you calling for Gerald Fitch and Eric Daniels to be kicked off after using fake ID's. Were you calling for Jules Camara to be kicked off after getting a DUI. I guess you weren't sorry to see Jason Parker go after getting caught smoking dope the 10th time. How about when Chuck Hayes was wrongfully accussed of rape, did you want to see his pics, jerseys, and stats wiped off before the truth came out?

Point 1: Fake ID's do not equal being caught with cocaine.
Point 2: I wasn't sorry to see Jason Parker go after smoking dope the 10th time. If the kid had some discipline he could be in the NBA now.
Point 3: Hayes was his word against her's. He wasn't caught in the act. Mackey was caught red handed with cocaine on school grounds.

Why are you trying to say a felony is no biggie? Just because the kid can shoot a basketball?

[JWORLD]

Hopson or Mackey?

If we clear out some scholarships at the end of the year, why not have them both along with Liggins and Miller plus another big man.


Patterson
Meeks
Jasper
Harris
Liggins
Miller
Hopson
BIG MAN/4 to 5 star
Mackey
Carter?
Porter?
Stevenson
Williams?
Coury?
Stewart?


In terms of talent, it wouldn't look to bad on paper.

[crazzedcats22]

I say give him a chance. We take chances on projects like Carter, Williams, etc... Make it clear to him that he is on absoulte 100% ZERO tolerance!!! Any bad behavior, I don't care if he litters, and he's gone.

Maybe the kid made one mistake and has straightened out, maybe he'll do it again. If he does, he's gone and we didn't miss out on anything. It's not like we are going to sign Mackey instead of another great player.

[ukwebfan]

Have I missed something? On Bud Mackey's Myspace Page he has a message that says, Kentucky Wildcats here I come. Is Coach G talking to this young man?

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=38857255

Not sure we're desperate enough to begin with. Those days have long passed imo.

[Cal_tucky]

Point 1: Fake ID's do not equal being caught with cocaine.
Point 2: I wasn't sorry to see Jason Parker go after smoking dope the 10th time. If the kid had some discipline he could be in the NBA now.
Point 3: Hayes was his word against her's. He wasn't caught in the act. Mackey was caught red handed with cocaine on school grounds.

Why are you trying to say a felony is no biggie? Just because the kid can shoot a basketball?


NO, a felony is a biggie IF he is convicted. He'll go to jail and won't be able to do anything for a few years. I'm saying let him have his day in court, and if everything checks out and he has gotten his act straight then give him a chance. What your saying is, if I read you correctly, is that you can't have a blemished record in order to get a scholarship offer to UK. Our current and most recent U.S. President have done more felonious acts than Mackey! Jalen Rose was caught in a crack house, he turned out OK!

[Matt Dillon]

[QUOTE=Got_Billie_G?;403604] Our current and most recent U.S. President have done more felonious acts than Mackey!

Just curious as to what you are referring, if I may ask.

[Cal_tucky]

Matt,

Clinton - purgery

Bush - coke head/DUI in his younger years

[ImForKy]

Why are you trying to say a felony is no biggie? Just because the kid can shoot a basketball?

Theft over $300 is a felony too. Until a few years ago it was $100. Now the legislature is trying to change it to $1000. Too many folks in jail for such a small amount. The point is there are felonies and there are FELONIES.

[flacat22]

Needmore,

So were you calling for Gerald Fitch and Eric Daniels to be kicked off after using fake ID's. Were you calling for Jules Camara to be kicked off after getting a DUI. I guess you weren't sorry to see Jason Parker go after getting caught smoking dope the 10th time. How about when Chuck Hayes was wrongfully accussed of rape, did you want to see his pics, jerseys, and stats wiped off before the truth came out?

Fitch/Daniels-misdemeanor
Camara-misdemeanor
Parker-misdemeanor

Mackey-possession of a trafficking amount of cocaine-felony

apples and oranges...I, too think we should pass.

[needmore44]

NO, a felony is a biggie IF he is convicted. He'll go to jail and won't be able to do anything for a few years. I'm saying let him have his day in court, and if everything checks out and he has gotten his act straight then give him a chance. What your saying is, if I read you correctly, is that you can't have a blemished record in order to get a scholarship offer to UK. Our current and most recent U.S. President have done more felonious acts than Mackey! Jalen Rose was caught in a crack house, he turned out OK!

Let him have his day in court and be proven innocent before you offer, and the only if he is proven innocent. I however, find it highly unlikely he will be proven innocent given he was caught red-handed.

[needmore44]

Theft over $300 is a felony too. Until a few years ago it was $100. Now the legislature is trying to change it to $1000. Too many folks in jail for such a small amount. The point is there are felonies and there are FELONIES.

I don't follow? Are you agreeing with me, or are you saying trafficking cocaine on school grounds should not be a felony?

[countrycat]

If he was selling drugs to school kids, we don't need him. Nuff said IMHO. That being said, I trust our coaching staff to do the right thing. We do not need a blemish like this. You talk about hurting recruiting. ESPN would be on us and this time we would deserve it.

[ImForKy]

Let him have his day in court and be proven innocent before you offer, and the only if he is proven innocent. I however, find it highly unlikely he will be proven innocent given he was caught red-handed.

Well, at least prior to the Bush adminstration, one must be proven GUILTY, not proven INNOCENT! And one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. As far as his being "caught red-handed" that may be true. However, I read just today that another man was just released from prison after serving ten years (3 on death row) for a crime he did not commit. He was convicted twice. Things aren't always as they appear.

[flacat22]

OK, what about this hypothetical scenario...lets say for instance he takes a plea, pleads "no contest (saying he did it)" avoids jail time and gets probation? Does that change anyone's outlook on his playing basketball at UK?

[Matt Dillon]

Matt,

Clinton - purgery

Bush - coke head/DUI in his younger years

I had read of the Bush DUI stuff. I have not heard of his being convicted of using and/or selling coke before. Is DUI a felony?

[teamchemistry09]

As long as Mackey didnt inhale

[countrycat]

If he sold drugs to kids we do not need him wearing UK blue. It could have been your kids.

[needmore44]

Well, at least prior to the Bush adminstration, one must be proven GUILTY, not proven INNOCENT! And one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. As far as his being "caught red-handed" that may be true. However, I read just today that another man was just released from prison after serving ten years (3 on death row) for a crime he did not commit. He was convicted twice. Things aren't always as they appear.

He had cocaine at Scott County High School. The only reason for a trial is to determine if there was intent to sell. Even if innocent, he's charged with possession.

[Doctor Zhivago]

Originally Posted by Got_Billie_G? http://www.wildcatnation.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wildcatnation.net/forum/showthread.php?p=403671#post403671)
Matt,

Clinton - purgery

Bush - coke head/DUI in his younger years
I had read of the Bush DUI stuff. I have not heard of his being convicted of using and/or selling coke before. Is DUI a felony?


I think Got_Bille_G? is just trying to prove a point by exaggerating and stretching the truth a bit. Bush got a DUI in the 70's ... but that hardly compares with trafficing & selling hard drugs. I'm not sure lying (Clinton's pergury) compares to that same level either.


(But, as always, I could be wrong!)

[grillman]

I'm going to put a different spin on this after looking at his page , maybe this a taunt toward ky for not recruiting him , maybe 'ala' lofton . Without any evidence that we are recruiting him , we could be missing his intent .

[Matt Dillon]

I think Got_Bille_G? is just trying to prove a point by exaggerating and stretching the truth a bit. Bush got a DUI in the 70's ... but that hardly compares with trafficing & selling hard drugs. I'm not sure lying (Clinton's pergury) compares to that same level either.


(But, as always, I could be wrong!)

I agree. My comments about DUI being a felony were tongue in cheek. Also, to the best of my knowledge, Pres. Bush has never been linked to coke in any way.

[Matt Dillon]

I'm going to put a different spin on this after looking at his page , maybe this a taunt toward ky for not recruiting him , maybe 'ala' lofton . Without any evidence that we are recruiting him , we could be missing his intent .

Someone else said basically the same thing. If we are recruiting Mackey, I'm surprised the media hasn't weighed in on it.

[leroybyrd]

I would not be surprised if we are recruiting him. IMO, like I have said numerous times on this board, I think we will see a different kind of kid (generally speaking) at UK under Billy than we have ever seen before. Remember, Billy is all about toughness and if he feels he can coach the kid, he will go after him, even with baggage.

To relate it to the Dusty Mills saga, I think he would rather have a kid who would try to swing on him than start breaking down crying (like Dusty) when taken to task.

[ImForKy]

He had cocaine at Scott County High School. The only reason for a trial is to determine if there was intent to sell. Even if innocent, he's charged with possession.

Did you see him with the cocaine? All we know is what the charges are and they probably are true. However, he either has to plead guilty, take the Alford plea, or it has to be proven at trial that he did in fact posses the cocaine. Just because he was allegedly caught with it does not prove guilt except in a court of law. We don't just skip due process.

[needmore44]

Did you see him with the cocaine? All we know is what the charges are and they probably are true. However, he either has to plead guilty, take the Alford plea, or it has to be proven at trial that he did in fact posses the cocaine. Just because he was allegedly caught with it does not prove guilt except in a court of law. We don't just skip due process.

Ok I take back everything I've said. I'm sure there is a logical explanation as to why he was arrested at school with coke on him, was kicked out of school, and moved to Cincinnati.

[JayB]

Ok I take back everything I've said. I'm sure there is a logical explanation as to why he was arrested at school with coke on him, was kicked out of school, and moved to Cincinnati.


Planted !!!!! :P He had powdered sugar for his morning coffee. The Gtown Cops were hatin on him, switched the sugar with the coke and bodaboom badabing no basketball for him..........

Was kicked out of school for the whole ordeal, and moved to Cinci because he was craving a chili dog.

:icon_mrgreen: I've had a few too many I know:)

[blue35]

bud

"Kentucky Wildcats here i come...... C court H.I.D.C. its a family thing "

Male
18 years old
cincinnati,ohio , Ohio
United States


Someone please help me and tell me what "C court H.I.D.C" means.

[westtncat]

Here, I, Dont Come?? Hey I Deal Coke?

[DCWildcat]

Ok I take back everything I've said. I'm sure there is a logical explanation as to why he was arrested at school with coke on him, was kicked out of school, and moved to Cincinnati.

This is a very dangerous sentiment to have, regardless of how obvious the facts are.

Fwiw, Clinton was acquitted of purjury.

[sardiscat]

"Fwiw, Clinton was acquitted of purjury."

No, he was disbarred because he committed perjury.

[JayB]

bud

"Kentucky Wildcats here i come...... C court H.I.D.C. its a family thing "

Male
18 years old
cincinnati,ohio , Ohio
United States


Someone please help me and tell me what "C court H.I.D.C" means.

I'm guessing what hes talking about is "Holder In Due Course" I have no idea if thats true or not, but for some reason when I saw that that popped into my mind. I can't remember where I heared that before but I went on wiki to refresh. It sorta makes since to his situation. Sorta I guess lol :shrug1::icon_biggrin::widcat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holder_in_due_course

[DCWildcat]

"Fwiw, Clinton was acquitted of purjury."

No, he was disbarred because he committed perjury.

No. The Supreme Court didn't give a reason when they disbarred him, and he was acquitted of purjury the Senate after impeachment. To be convicted of something, you have to go on trial for it, and Clinton was acquitted in that case. Disbarment is not a conviction.

[ImForKy]

No. The Supreme Court didn't give a reason when they disbarred him, and he was acquitted of purjury the Senate after impeachment. To be convicted of something, you have to go on trial for it, and Clinton was acquitted in that case. Disbarment is not a conviction.

You are correct DC. :thumbup::thumbup:

[Cory Conley]

if you read the replys of some of the people in his comments . He must be telling them in comments he is going to uk that one girl he commented a couple of times then she say you are going to look better in blue anyways.
Im so confused.
Take it for whats it worth!

[blue35]

If he means what it says, why hasn't he gave Coach G a commitment?

[teamchemistry09]

If he means what it says, why hasn't he gave Coach G a commitment?

Has coach offered?

[wildcatsundance]

Boys and Girls this is a bunch of kids on myspace... Be real!!!!

[sardiscat]

"No. The Supreme Court didn't give a reason when they disbarred him, and he was acquitted of purjury the Senate after impeachment. To be convicted of something, you have to go on trial for it, and Clinton was acquitted in that case. Disbarment is not a conviction."

He was found to have committed perjury by Judge Susan Webber Wright in U.S. District Court in Little Rock, Arkansas, and that is the reason he was disbarred. The Senate didn't try him for perjury. The Senate tried him for "high crimes and misdemeanors." The Senate declined to convict him of having committed high crimes and misdemeanors. Apparently the senators thought that if lying under oath amounted to high crimes and misdemeanors, a lot of them were guilty, too, and they didn't want to go there.

[Gunsmoke]

That was a combination of being informative and amusing. Thanks.:icon_biggrin:

[DCWildcat]

"No. The Supreme Court didn't give a reason when they disbarred him, and he was acquitted of purjury the Senate after impeachment. To be convicted of something, you have to go on trial for it, and Clinton was acquitted in that case. Disbarment is not a conviction."

He was found to have committed perjury by Judge Susan Webber Wright in U.S. District Court in Little Rock, Arkansas, and that is the reason he was disbarred. The Senate didn't try him for perjury. The Senate tried him for "high crimes and misdemeanors." The Senate declined to convict him of having committed high crimes and misdemeanors. Apparently the senators thought that if lying under oath amounted to high crimes and misdemeanors, a lot of them were guilty, too, and they didn't want to go there.

What of this? http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/impeachment/

There's literally dozens of identical articles all using the same wording--acquitted of perjury. I'm sorry if I'm mistaken here, but when most major news networks all relate the same information, I'm inclined to agree.

[sardiscat]

You're mixing up two different things. There was a lawsuit in Little Rock. There was an impeachment trial in the Senate. The impeachment trial did not have any effect on the lawsuit. They were entirely different matters.

[Mark Blueblood]

Yeah...and another thing...he didn't have sex with that woman either!

[justinrice07]

— As far as the future goes, three quick notes. Scotty Hopson played tonight in the regional tournament and both Billy Gillispie and Bruce Pearl were reportedly in attendance. These two may be the finalists coming down the home stretch for a late-choosing McDonalds All American….great subplot to the continued building rivalry. And I was told today by someone close to the staff that the Bud Mackey option is a real one….potentially as a walk-on….should be interesting to watch. Finally, June Buchanan star Clark Stepp will be visiting for the UK-Florida game on Sunday. Coach Cox is calling him regularly and there is a lot of interest in having him join the team….he doesnt have a scholarship offer yet, but apparently is of high interest to the UK staff. Three in-state kids all concievably still on UK’s radar…..interesting indeed.

Posted my Matt Jones on KSR

[teamchemistry09]

— As far as the future goes, three quick notes. Scotty Hopson played tonight in the regional tournament and both Billy Gillispie and Bruce Pearl were reportedly in attendance. These two may be the finalists coming down the home stretch for a late-choosing McDonalds All American….great subplot to the continued building rivalry. And I was told today by someone close to the staff that the Bud Mackey option is a real one….potentially as a walk-on….should be interesting to watch. Finally, June Buchanan star Clark Stepp will be visiting for the UK-Florida game on Sunday. Coach Cox is calling him regularly and there is a lot of interest in having him join the team….he doesnt have a scholarship offer yet, but apparently is of high interest to the UK staff. Three in-state kids all concievably still on UK’s radar…..interesting indeed.

Posted my Matt Jones on KSR

As far as Mackey goes, I have always questioned him coming to UK because of the whole situation, but if the staff trusts him enough to want him on our team I do too. I would love to get someone with his talent as a walkon. He would be a great addition

[poodoo]

I have not previously posted on the Mackey situation. Yet, I have just finished reading the other thread, in which the OP requested that posters not discuss anything other than the player's skills. I really felt like saying some things there, so I'm saying them here.

I am one who normally says that I trust the coach with decisions, period For example, if Coach wants to start Mark Coury every game, it's fine with me.

On this one, honestly, adding Mackey to the roster sounds too risky to me(and, by the way, we do NOT KNOW that the staff is considering that). We are talking something SERIOUS here, folks, not a simple spur-of-the-moment stupid decision, and especially so when you're talking about someone's being closely associated with other young, sometimes vulnerable young men. FWIW, something no one has mentioned ANOTHER potential recruit's possibly NOT joining the Cats if Kentucky were to allow Mackey to join the program--could that happen, SURE!

Some folks are talking about everyone's deserving a second chance. Like another poster, I want that second chance to be given by someone other than MY coach and team at the University of Kentucky. For sure, there are plenty of coaches out there out there who will jump at the chance of taking Mr. Mackey to help their team to WIN games. SO we UK fans do not have to worry at all about Mackey's getting HIS second chance. We only have to worry about the chance WE OURSELVES are taking.

I've seen Louisville go that very route and end up suffering because of it. Also, while there had been nothing approaching Mackey's situation in Rashad Carruth's background, Donna Smith had noted that her husband had thought that he could help the young Carruth. Her husband LATER said that he was going to recruit guys who could help HIM, not the other way around. We all know too well how Carruth's being a part of the team turned out. According to many, he was a "cancer" to the team. That happening had always been something I understood, as I had seen the same occur in the classroom.

Sure, Mackey MAY use that second chance to turn around his life and make good decisions in the future. He MAY become a "model citizen." Yet, again, we must ask ourselves if it's worth OUR taking the chance. Besides any potential problems with the team, do we really want the potential negative publicity, particularly if there are future problems with the young man? Remember that Indiana withdrew his scholarship offer, and I strongly respect they have not offered him the opportunity to walk on and join the squad. FWIW, in football, Louisville took a couple of young men whose scholarships had similarly been rescinded because of crimes committed. Louisville eventually got burned.

I had remained quiet on this one. Yet, so remembering experiences with former students I had so loved, young men who had been repeatedly given second chances (and I had so wanted and even trusted them to change), only to waste them, I am MOST LEARY of our coaching staff's taking a chance on this young man. I tend not to believe that they are considering doing such. I hope I'm right.

Yes, I absolutely think Mr. Mackey CAN turn around his life. Also, this post has nothing to do with the young man himself, as I do not personally know him, but only the part of his background that is a concern (his baggage," as posters are calling it). I SO hope that happens for Mr. Mackey.

GO CATS!!!

P.S. Obviously, this decision is not ours to make, though. That naturally goes to the university, its athletic department, and the coaching staff. Again, I do feel they will make the right decision.

[Ukosumu]

I have not previously posted on the Mackey situation. Yet, I have just finished reading the other thread, in which the OP requested that posters not discuss anything other than the player's skills. I really felt like saying some things there, so I'm saying them here.

I am one who normally says that I trust the coach with decisions, period For example, if Coach wants to start Mark Coury every game, it's fine with me.

On this one, honestly, adding Mackey to the roster sounds too risky to me(and, by the way, we do NOT KNOW that the staff is considering that). We are talking something SERIOUS here, folks, not a simple spur-of-the-moment stupid decision, and especially so when you're talking about someone's being closely associated with other young, sometimes vulnerable young men. FWIW, something no one has mentioned ANOTHER potential recruit's possibly NOT joining the Cats if Kentucky were to allow Mackey to join the program--could that happen, SURE!

Some folks are talking about everyone's deserving a second chance. Like another poster, I want that second chance to be given by someone other than MY coach and team at the University of Kentucky. For sure, there are plenty of coaches out there out there who will jump at the chance of taking Mr. Hopson to help their team to WIN games. SO we UK fans do not have to worry at all about Mackey's getting HIS second chance. We only have to worry about the chance WE OURSELVES are taking.

I've seen Louisville go that very route and end up suffering because of it. Also, while there had been nothing approaching Mackey's situation in Rashad Carruth's background, Donna Smith had noted that her husband had thought that he could help the young Carruth. Her husband LATER said that he was going to recruit guys who could help HIM, not the other way around. We all know too well how Carruth's being a part of the team turned out. According to many, he was a "cancer" to the team. That haapening had always been something I understood, as I had seen the same occur in the classroom.

Sure, Mackey MAY use that second chance to turn around his life and make good decisions in the future. He MAY become a "model citizen." Yet, again, we must ask ourselves if it's worth OUR taking the chance. Besides any potential problems with the team, do we really want the potential negative publicity, particularly if there are future problems with the young man? Remember that Indiana withdrew his scholarship offer, and I strongly respect they have not offered him the opportunity to walk on and join the squad. FWIW, in football, Louisville took a couple of young men whose scholarships had similarly been rescinded because of crimes committed. Louisville eventually got burned.

I had remained quiet on this one. Yet, so remembering experiences with former students I had so loved, young men who had been repeatedly given second chances (and I had so wanted and even trusted them to change), only to waste them, I am MOST LEARY of our coaching staff's taking a chance on this young man. I tend not to believe that they are considering doing such. I hope I'm right.

Yes, I absolutely think Mr. Hopson CAN turn around his life. Also, this post has nothing to do with the young man himself, as I do not personally know him, but only the part of his background that is a concern (his baggage," as posters are calling it). I SO hope that happens for Mr. Hopson.

GO CATS!!!

P.S. Obviously, this decision is not ours to make, though. That naturally goes to the university, its athletic department, and the coaching staff. Again, I do feel they will make the right decision.

I believe you are combining two different individuals in your post. The young man with the legal issues is Mackey. Hopson is the highly rated recruited who decommited from MSU. Mackey would be a risk for sure. Hopson would be an addition.

[Catligula]

I have not previously posted on the Mackey situation. Yet, I have just finished reading the other thread, in which the OP requested that posters not discuss anything other than the player's skills. I really felt like saying some things there, so I'm saying them here.

Thanks, though it looks like you may be the only one that actually read my post. :)

I agree with you that it seems like a bad idea on the surface, but I think it is a win-win situation for us if he's willing to walk on. I would be against offering a scholarship, but a walk-on can be dismissed at any time without consequence. Everything we know about coach says that he's got zero-tolerance for shenanigans, so if he takes him I will be behind it.

[PeachtreeCat]

Regarding Mackey, In poodoo I trust!

[jkeller]

I like the walk on angle in that with the zero tolerance policy you can keep him on the straight and narrow and also, if he and his family has to pay his way then it would show a deep commitment on his part and prove a possible deterrent to not appreciating his second chance.

[billoliver40]

The decision on Mackey could well be a moot point. I don't know what the courts will finally decide about the youngster, nor do I know what the NCAA may decide (given situations that happened at some football powerhouses in the past, the answer will probably be nothing...as long as Mackey isn't given a T-shirt).
But I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with a couple of my fellow posters...and it's hard, because I usually find myself right in line with them.

I've had two young men very dear to me make some hideous decisions. One went to juvenile detention for four years, the other was given the choice between prison and a year in a rehablilitation facility. Both are now in their very early twenties and facing the rest of their lives with the
consequences of what they've done. One will never finish high school.
He will also have a felony count on his record his entire life...and try to get a job like that. The other lives alone, somewhat isolated from others,
because his detention didn't really help with socialization skills. Did they make their own choices? Yep. Does it make it any easier to see...no,
not really.

Anyway....
if Mackey WAS to walk on
if he WAS to be put on the ultimate short leash
if he DOES realize that last chances are exactly that and society is not
as forgiving as movies and television show
IF coach Gillispie is willing to take a chance on him

go for it.

The worst that could happen is that it will be a repeat of the Alex Legion
situation...and Alex was by all accounts an absolutely outstanding young
man.
The best that could happen is a youngster given a chance to make his
family proud and turn his life around.

sorry....soapbox done.

[cnice11]

I know he has baggage, but why not let the guy walk on? We can kick him off the team if he causes trouble or runs into any many legal problems. I know hes a better player, but Billy G has already kicked one walk on off the team. I just dont think he would let someone stir up trouble.

[The Black Watch]

From the looks of his Myspace page, something IS going down. Too much UK talk on there for nothing to be going on. And I see Roshown McCloud as a friend on there. Interesting.

[teamchemistry09]

I know he has baggage, but why not let the guy walk on? We can kick him off the team if he causes trouble or runs into any many legal problems. I know hes a better player, but Billy G has already kicked one walk on off the team. I just dont think he would let someone stir up trouble.

Exactly. He kicked off Mills for laughing on the sideline. Doesnt that say he isnt going to take any kind of crap off of a walkon? Let the guy have a second chance. Hes already proven he wants to play ball by switching schools so he could do so. When he gets to UK and is going to school full time and playing ball he wont have time to do anything else. Give him a chance hes a steal of a talent if we get him for nothing

[KyCat]

Normally I agree with Poodoo and she makes some good arguments in her posts even if she did confuse him with Hopson at the end. I tend to think that it may very well be that Poodoo is right (as usual) but I think the position is based on an assumption that may or may not be true. That assumption being that the behavior that landed Mackey in trouble was NOT an isolated incident. Logic tells me that in all likelihood it was not a first time incident but for whatever reason, my gut seems to tell me that it was. Perhaps that is wishful thinking. If the behavior were representative of a pattern of similar activity, then I concur with Poodoo. However, if this was an isolated incident that was the result of some extinuating circumstances, then a second chance is a viable option or 'gamble'.

Not being close to the situation and circumstances and not knowing Mackey personally I find it hard to judge the motives that lead to this poor choice. I do know that he is a young man on the threshold of becoming an adult and that poor judgement is not uncommon even for older adutls (think New York Governor Eliot Spitzer throwing away a promising political future and perhaps ruining his family life over bad judgement).

I think we should trust our coach, trust our atheletic director, and trust our university to review the circumstances and make an informed decision.

Poodoo also said one other thing about Tubby and Carruth that made me think. She said Tubby was going to recruit players that could help him not the other way around. In this case, maybe - just maybe, they could help each other.

[poodoo]

Oh, dear. Thanks for catching my mistake, guys, and I will go back and make the corrections. :icon_redface: Too, I did not actually have the two men confused at all in my mind, BUT I surely did eventually type "Hopson" when I had definitely been referring to Mr. Mackey throughout that long post. It's like when I'm thinking one thing and the wrong word comes out! I do that so often with my own children. :icon_mrgreen:

Further, we are definitely in agreement in regard to this decision's not being ours (which I had noted). I fully trust UK athletic officials to make the decision. Yet, the risk still scares me a bit (and it obviously scared Indiana).

While I LOVE the stories of how young people have messed up in some way and end up leading straight, successful lives, again, THAT can happen for Mr. Mackey ANYWHERE. Even if it were an isolated incident, which I certainly hope is the case, it's a most serious lapse in judgement. IF he were to mess up here --and, yes, he would be dismissed, NO doubt, if that were to occur -- we're talking much more damage than Legion's departure, in my humble opinion. We would surely get "the win at all costs" label in the press, just as the principal and coach who have allowed him to play at their school this semester AND Coach Petrino while at Louisville (and he had had similar rules about dismissal IF the athlete were to mess up there). Further, internal situations CAN obviously hurt a team. KyCat, I so respect your posts, too. :) Yet, the key word in your last statement is "maybe." Sure, maybe we could help Mr. Mackey, and he could also help Coach and us. Such would be wonderful, but the "maybe" is the catch for me.

Also, again, I've just been in too many similar situations with former students I love not to be aware that's there some risk involved. HERE, as one who does not know the young man, I'm only thinking of my love for the UK basketball program. :) It scares me a bit. That's all. Again, though, I absolutely defer to Coach and the athletic administration, and I wish Mr. Mackey a bright future. :)

P.S. I just checked, and I called the young man "Mackey" EVERY time. :icon_biggrin:

[poodoo]

I believe you are combining two different individuals in your post. The young man with the legal issues is Mackey. Hopson is the highly rated recruited who decommited from MSU. Mackey would be a risk for sure. Hopson would be an addition.

Thanks again for that clarification, Ukosumo. Too, as I had just posted, it had been merely typo errors near the end of that lengthy post. :icon_redface:

Too, my apologies to Mr. Hopson. He is obviously on my mind as a recruit I am hoping we sign -- too much on my mind, obviously. :big_grin:

Also, we surely agree on Mr. Mackey. Taking him would be a risk. I cannot see that differently, although it COULD well turn out beautifully for all, of course. Most of all, again, I trust the decision to those WAY above me. :icon_mrgreen:

[JayB]

Ok my thoughts on the DUI and drug comparison. APPLES AND ORANGES??

DUI is much much worse than carrying a bag of coke around. I know too many people who's lives were lost or destroyed by low life POS that drink and drive and kill someone. Drug charges can change a persons life. I for one hope he gets one last chance and we get him 'along with hoppy of course".

DUI you have no chances to take it back after you kill someones kid.....

Drugs, if you try it.... then your brain should! click and realize not to do it anymore. And theres your first chance to disassociate yourself with drugs. One more than the dead person or the drunk has.

[poodoo]

Not being close to the situation and circumstances and not knowing Mackey personally I find it hard to judge the motives that lead to this poor choice. I do know that he is a young man on the threshold of becoming an adult and that poor judgement is not uncommon even for older adutls (think New York Governor Eliot Spitzer throwing away a promising political future and perhaps ruining his family life over bad judgement).



Ironically, I just read a piece on that sad situation (and I can still "see" his wife's devastated face), and, based on the evidence shared in the article, that had not definitely not been an isolated case of bad judgement. Even more ironically, he had run for office on getting rid of corruption in New York, including fighting prostitution -- and had won by a large margin. He had been called "Mr. Clean." He was obviously not what he had seemed to be. :icon_sad:

Certainly that example shows that it's not only young people who can show bad judgement. Yet, with all due respect (and, again, I surely have that for you :)), I fail to draw the connection with that happening to being willing to take a risk with Mackey. :shrug1:

By the way, I, too, am not judging Mackey's motives, as I do not know the young man. It's only the BEHAVIOR itself, which is one that points to a serious lack of judgement, at the very least.

You mention that your "gut" tells you that it's the first time. Here's HOPING you're right, but based on my experiences with students that I DID know well and trusted, that is too often not the case, most unfortunately. Again, though, all I'm saying is that taking the risk is surely a bit scary to me, nothing more. Maybe there's much more to the story that will come out and make me not feel the same. :shrug1: GO CATS!!!

[countrycat]

Ok my thoughts on the DUI and drug comparison. APPLES AND ORANGES??

DUI is much much worse than carrying a bag of coke around. I know too many people who's lives were lost or destroyed by low life POS that drink and drive and kill someone. Drug charges can change a persons life. I for one hope he gets one last chance and we get him 'along with hoppy of course".

DUI you have no chances to take it back after you kill someones kid.....

Drugs, if you try it.... then your brain should! click and realize not to do it anymore. And theres your first chance to disassociate yourself with drugs. One more than the dead person or the drunk has.
No one has ever had a car accident after using coke. You head it here first.

[Blue Heaven]

No one has ever had a car accident after using coke. You head it here first.
I'm sure someone has.

[JayB]

No one has ever had a car accident after using coke. You head it here first.

I'm sure some have. I didn't say that. And when you DUI you don't have "accidents" YOU MURDER" so lets not say accidents.. Thats something someone with a DUI would say.

[teamchemistry09]

Ok my thoughts on the DUI and drug comparison. APPLES AND ORANGES??

DUI is much much worse than carrying a bag of coke around. I know too many people who's lives were lost or destroyed by low life POS that drink and drive and kill someone. Drug charges can change a persons life. I for one hope he gets one last chance and we get him 'along with hoppy of course".

DUI you have no chances to take it back after you kill someones kid.....

Drugs, if you try it.... then your brain should! click and realize not to do it anymore. And theres your first chance to disassociate yourself with drugs. One more than the dead person or the drunk has.

I think your misunderstanding DUI. It means Driving Under the Influence. It doesnt say under the influence of what. Could be alcohol, drugs, even sudafed or painkillers. No where in the law of DUI does it say the word drunk. It says driving under the influence of anything that impairs your decision making. My traffic school instructor bet me 5 dollars that I couldnt prove that DUI means only alcohol. I read the entire law, and I lost. He also told me that in 10 cases of DUIs, only 6 of them are alcohol related. The rest are illegal or prescription drugs, or things such as cough medicine or any thing that can make you drowsy. And have you never heard of a person being on drugs and killing someone? A few years ago there was a guy on PCP who took 2 shots to the chest by the cops shotgun, and kept going at them with a knife. When drug dealers shoot people over drugs and money, is drugs not killing them?

[teamchemistry09]

I'm sure some have. I didn't say that. And when you DUI you don't have "accidents" YOU MURDER" so lets not say accidents.. Thats something someone with a DUI would say.

Its not murder its man slaughter. A death by accident. You dont get drunk and get in your car and say "I dont like that person so Ill slam my car into them and kill them" You are driving with impaired judgement and that causes an accident

[JayB]

My point was that DUIs "alcohol related I must add" are not just simple things that happen to everyone, and until it happens to you. You wouldn't understand or care what the def is.

But anyways thats all I gotta say about that, I try to say that DUIs alcohol or drugs are bad and I get jumped on because of my opinion but w.e

[teamchemistry09]

My point was that DUIs "alcohol related I must add" are not just simple things that happen to everyone, and until it happens to you. You wouldn't understand or care what the def is.

But anyways thats all I gotta say about that, I try to say that DUIs alcohol or drugs are bad and I get jumped on because of my opinion but w.e

I wasnt jumping on you I was trying to educate you on the topic. And I have been affected by a DUI in which was a case that the driver was on drugs not drunk.

[countrycat]

Drugs and alcahol are like comparing oranges to oranges, they can have the same outcome when used.

[KyCat]

Certainly that example shows that it's not only young people who can show bad judgement. Yet, with all due respect (and, again, I surely have that for you :)), I fail to draw the connection with that happening to being willing to take a risk with Mackey. :shrug1:GO CATS!!!

Poodoo, there is no connection between the two incidents other than both were cases of bad judgment, I think we can both agree. I used the most recent highly publicised incident of an adult making a bad judgment to demonstrate that people, even people we expect to have good judgment such as an elected Governor (perhaps a bad example given politics today) often exercise poor decision making.

In the case of the former Governor we have news and information that his behavior was not an isolated event but rather ongoing for a number of years. That 'history' or knowledge of such a history about Mackey is not apparent. In the absence of such a history perhaps it is indicative that there was no such pattern or prior bad acts. We also do not know the circumstances of why he did what he was alleged to have done. As a former teacher (assumption based on your posts) I am sure you know the power of peer pressure and the results of falling in with the wrong crowd. Knowing there are pressures that come to bare that are difficult for even an adult to resist, I am more ready to take a chance on a kid who makes a bad decision if there is no history. That is why I trust that the coach, AD, and UK Administration would look in to this situation and make an informed decision as opposed to speculation.

I agree with you it is a risk. Its the amount of risk that we do not know. I for one do not want to rush to judgment based on the limited information I have.

[teamchemistry09]

Sure we dont know how big the risk is but we need to keep in mind he would be a walkon. If something happens with drugs or legal issues or if he even laughs on the bench while the team is losing (sorry Dusty) he gets kicked off and nothing more is heard of him. No strings attached with a walkon. Hes more than worth the risk IMO

[poodoo]

Poodoo, there is no connection between the two incidents other than both were cases of bad judgment, I think we can both agree. I used the most recent highly publicised incident of an adult making a bad judgment to demonstrate that people, even people we expect to have good judgment such as an elected Governor (perhaps a bad example given politics today) often exercise poor decision making.

In the case of the former Governor we have news and information that his behavior was not an isolated event but rather ongoing for a number of years. That 'history' or knowledge of such a history about Mackey is not apparent. In the absence of such a history perhaps it is indicative that there was no such pattern or prior bad acts. We also do not know the circumstances of why he did what he was alleged to have done. As a former teacher (assumption based on your posts) I am sure you know the power of peer pressure and the results of falling in with the wrong crowd. Knowing there are pressures that come to bare that are difficult for even an adult to resist, I am more ready to take a chance on a kid who makes a bad decision if there is no history. That is why I trust that the coach, AD, and UK Administration would look in to this situation and make an informed decision as opposed to speculation.

I agree with you it is a risk. Its the amount of risk that we do not know. I for one do not want to rush to judgment based on the limited information I have.

Most of all, KyCat, we agree that the decision is up to the administration and trust THEM to make the decision. :) Also, I was not rushing to judgement and certainly not judging the young man at all, for I know neither him nor all the circumstances.

By the way, I never stated that I did not want UK to take the young man, period. I did express sincere concern that was going through my mind, though, concern about POSSIBILITIES I felt many posters were ignoring. I was actually trying to balance some of the enthusiasm and talk of the glory in giving second chances and that taking him as a "walk-on" is no big deal, for he could merely be kicked off the team.

I just think fans, like some coaches, are sometimes too anxious to get a player if he can PLAY. Would there be such a desire to give the young man a second chance (that someone else will certainly give him, promise!) if he were not one of the most talented players in the nation! Such thoughts bother me (and, no, I do not think you yourself were being influenced by such).

I just know too well that those stories with young people who have made some really bad choices do not always work out well. From my experiences in the school system, similar poor choices too often went the other way. Again, my heart was broken so many times.

To the "second chance" talk, I did say that I was a bit LEARY of taking such a risk OURSELVES. I meant it. I don't want to end up being a Louisville.I don't want my coach and team and university and to end up hurting. Mr. Mackey, again, will get his second chance somewhere, no doubt. Since I don't personally know him, yes, I currently LEAN on the side of not taking the chance while wishing him the best, although more of the story could come out and changes my mind. IF Mr. Mackey becomes a Cat, I think that means there is more to the story (but Indiana did not listen, I guess), and I will certainly be cheering for him. :) In other words, there will be no complaints here about any decision made.

In regard to the opinion that it's no big deal, for we can just kick him off if there is a problem, I presently disagree. For most who are caught at whatever, unfiortunately, it's not the first time. Believe me, from personal experience, fellow students have known things for months, years, while we "smart" :icon_mrgreen: adults have been totally trusting and have not been aware of anything improper. I've been there, too often. Oh, yes, I know well about peer pressure. I also know some young people are especially easily led in the wrong direction. Who knows in this case, but assuming it's just a weird, isolated incident doesn't work with me, although I, too, hope that's the case.

Most of all, we agree that there should be investigating, and if there's any actual interest from UK in Mackey, I feel sure that it's occurring. Again, the other kids are the ones who know. They're often quite quiet. Any investigators should talk to as many students as possible.

In regard to the comparison with the Governor, I understood what you were saying. That doesn't work at all for me, though. Instead, for me, such an example hurts. By the way, that adult was under no "pressure." The Governor essentially had everything (too similar to Mackey :icon_sad:) and wanted even more and basically threw everything away, seemingly for no other reason than the temptation and the thought that he could get away with it. While Mr. Mackey COULD have made a terrible decision, just once, that adult did FAR more than use bad judgement :icon_sad: -- I just see that as far too kind to the Governor and, again, personally see no value in that comparison.

Also, the adult's being the ELECTED Governor just scares me the more how we can be totally fooled by a human being. I do think we agree that a young person is FAR more deserving of sympathy, but sympathy or "understanding," to me, has NOTHING to do with whether or not UK should take a RISK (a decision neither of us will make).

Leaving UK out of the equation, most of all, I hope your "gut" is right that it was one isolated incident with Mackey and that things work out for his future. THAT is what really matters. As someone who truly loves young people (and I sense the same in you, and I like that :)), THAT I so hope.

In regard to UK and Mackey, again, I defer to those far above me, as always. :) So we agree on what matters the most (and it's so nice to be able to disagree with one another in a respectful way :)). GO CATS!!!