Rule Change Needed

[Wildcat Larry]

I think it's time to make a rule change to bring the semi-circle into play beneath the basket where you can't take a charge. It was tried in some exhibition and early season tournament games, and I liked it.

[cumberlandredskin]

I like it too and it should be changed. Makes it a little easier for the refs. The pros have had it for a few seasons.

[Mr. T]

That would be a horrible rule. I mean the last thing College BBall needs to do is try to copy the NBA. If the defender is there then they have the right to that space, if you can't score without running them over that is your problem. Learn to hit a pull up 5 footer, go around them, or get a foul - your choice.

[Wildcat Larry]

I just figure anything to take a subjective decision away from the officials, the better. ;):lol:

[Mr. T]

Wildcat Larry wrote: I just figure anything to take a subjective decision away from the officials, the better. ;):lol:

The problem isn't the rules, it's that officials guess and anticipate calls (not to mention getting caught up in the emotion of the games) and I would even say there are a few that are downright dirty.

On the otherhand if every call was always gotten right it really would take away from the charm of the game IMO. Where would fans be if they couldn't complain about officiating? If everytime your team lost there was nothing to argue about?

There are plenty of NCAA rules that could be looked at but I don't think the block/charge circle is one. If anything there aren't enough charges called as it is. Rules to look at (or at least their interpretations) are the timeout rule, the jump ball rule (called WAAAAAY to often - a blocked shot isn't a held ball people), the 3 pt line perhaps, etc.

[VIIBanners]

DITTO! I loved the rules introduced in the pre-season. I especially liked the 3 point line further out.

[Will Lavender]

Mr. T wrote: That would be a horrible rule. I mean the last thing College BBall needs to do is try to copy the NBA. If the defender is there then they have the right to that space, if you can't score without running them over that is your problem. Learn to hit a pull up 5 footer, go around them, or get a foul - your choice.

The problem is you've got too many guys setting up right beneath the basket.

The offense is punished too much because defenders have learned the histrionics of taking a foul: if they scream, thrash, and fall hard, they'll get the call most every time.

I think there's some merit to the fact that players need to learn how to hit that mid-range shot instead of taking it all the way to the glass, but I also think refs are duped too much by the art of a defender's fall.

This is one NBA rule that I would like to see in the college game. Get rid of Shane Battier's influence on the game! :D

[Mr. T]

Will Lavender wrote: Mr. T wrote: That would be a horrible rule. I mean the last thing College BBall needs to do is try to copy the NBA. If the defender is there then they have the right to that space, if you can't score without running them over that is your problem. Learn to hit a pull up 5 footer, go around them, or get a foul - your choice.

The problem is you've got too many guys setting up right beneath the basket.

The offense is punished too much because defenders have learned the histrionics of taking a foul: if they scream, thrash, and fall hard, they'll get the call most every time.

I think there's some merit to the fact that players need to learn how to hit that mid-range shot instead of taking it all the way to the glass, but I also think refs are duped too much by the art of a defender's fall.

This is one NBA rule that I would like to see in the college game. Get rid of Shane Battier's influence on the game! :D


As I said, it's a problem with the refs, not the rule. If I am not mistaken a technical foul for delay of game can be called for a player "flopping" (and if it can't maybe THAT is the rule change that needs to be made). I mean they can flop anywhere on the court, so you just want to make sure they can't do it under the basket? Sorry, but a charge is a charge no matter where it is. If the refs can't tell the difference (whether blind or because they aren't in good enough shape to get in position) then they need to find something else to do. The CHANGE that needs to be made is the NCAA holding refs accountable for their performance.

[Will Lavender]

Mr. T wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Mr. T wrote: That would be a horrible rule. I mean the last thing College BBall needs to do is try to copy the NBA. If the defender is there then they have the right to that space, if you can't score without running them over that is your problem. Learn to hit a pull up 5 footer, go around them, or get a foul - your choice.

The problem is you've got too many guys setting up right beneath the basket.

The offense is punished too much because defenders have learned the histrionics of taking a foul: if they scream, thrash, and fall hard, they'll get the call most every time.

I think there's some merit to the fact that players need to learn how to hit that mid-range shot instead of taking it all the way to the glass, but I also think refs are duped too much by the art of a defender's fall.

This is one NBA rule that I would like to see in the college game. Get rid of Shane Battier's influence on the game! :D


As I said, it's a problem with the refs, not the rule. If I am not mistaken a technical foul for delay of game can be called for a player "flopping" (and if it can't maybe THAT is the rule change that needs to be made). I mean they can flop anywhere on the court, so you just want to make sure they can't do it under the basket? Sorry, but a charge is a charge no matter where it is. If the refs can't tell the difference (whether blind or because they aren't in good enough shape to get in position) then they need to find something else to do. The CHANGE that needs to be made is the NCAA holding refs accountable for their performance.

It's a problem with both the refs and the rule.

Here's why:

Basketball is a game of angles. Defense especially is playing angles, figuring out the quickest way to spots, cutting off guys at the pass. What's happened is that the game - at least on the defensive end - has begun to favor bulkier, slower players because they've learned that the easiest angle, especially when there's a break-away, is to rush on a straight line and get right underneath the goal. They get down there, flop, and the charge is taken.

Also, guys who are being dominated down on the blocks do this: they'll let themselves be pushed back directly under the goal, they'll flop as if electiricity is coursing through their bodies, and they'll get the call.

It's a problem with refs allowing themselves to be baited, but it's also a problem of where these charge smost often happen: straight beneath the bucket. Take out that place on the floor as a possible zone to take a charge and you make the refs' jobs much easier.

[Athens2005]

Wildcat Larry wrote: I think it's time to make a rule change to bring the semi-circle into play beneath the basket where you can't take a charge. It was tried in some exhibition and early season tournament games, and I liked it.

It's just another rule for the referees to ignore.

In the NBA, when the officials blow that call, Steve Kerr will say, "I don't like the rule anyway, so I think it's a good call." :thumbdown:tongue

[Mr. T]

Will Lavender wrote: Mr. T wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Mr. T wrote: That would be a horrible rule. I mean the last thing College BBall needs to do is try to copy the NBA. If the defender is there then they have the right to that space, if you can't score without running them over that is your problem. Learn to hit a pull up 5 footer, go around them, or get a foul - your choice.

The problem is you've got too many guys setting up right beneath the basket.

The offense is punished too much because defenders have learned the histrionics of taking a foul: if they scream, thrash, and fall hard, they'll get the call most every time.

I think there's some merit to the fact that players need to learn how to hit that mid-range shot instead of taking it all the way to the glass, but I also think refs are duped too much by the art of a defender's fall.

This is one NBA rule that I would like to see in the college game. Get rid of Shane Battier's influence on the game! :D


As I said, it's a problem with the refs, not the rule. If I am not mistaken a technical foul for delay of game can be called for a player "flopping" (and if it can't maybe THAT is the rule change that needs to be made). I mean they can flop anywhere on the court, so you just want to make sure they can't do it under the basket? Sorry, but a charge is a charge no matter where it is. If the refs can't tell the difference (whether blind or because they aren't in good enough shape to get in position) then they need to find something else to do. The CHANGE that needs to be made is the NCAA holding refs accountable for their performance.

It's a problem with both the refs and the rule.

Here's why:

Basketball is a game of angles. Defense especially is playing angles, figuring out the quickest way to spots, cutting off guys at the pass. What's happened is that the game - at least on the defensive end - has begun to favor bulkier, slower players because they've learned that the easiest angle, especially when there's a break-away, is to rush on a straight line and get right underneath the goal. They get down there, flop, and the charge is taken.

Also, guys who are being dominated down on the blocks do this: they'll let themselves be pushed back directly under the goal, they'll flop as if electiricity is coursing through their bodies, and they'll get the call.

It's a problem with refs allowing themselves to be baited, but it's also a problem of where these charge smost often happen: straight beneath the bucket. Take out that place on the floor as a possible zone to take a charge and you make the refs' jobs much easier.


And as I said, learn to hit a 5 foot jumper at a 75% clip and the fact that they run right under the basket mean exactly jack squat. Then they have to come out to stop that and bada bing you get someone for a layup.

Also (as I also said) start calling the floppers for delay of game, problem solved. Also for whoever said it, I agree the TO rule needs to be changed.

[Mr. T]

Look at it this way, it's like telling a football team they can't play a goal line defense at the 1 yard line because it makes it too hard to run the ball in.

[Doug Hardin]

As if making a determination as to whether it was a block or a charge isn't hard enough, it would make it even harder for referees to determine block/charge when they also have to check to make sure the defender's feet were outside the circle.

It's a good rule in theory, but it really doesn't help things much in the NBA.

[scars.of.grace]

I definitely think they should change this rule. I think it's needed.

[Mr. T]

Doug Hardin wrote: As if making a determination as to whether it was a block or a charge isn't hard enough, it would make it even harder for referees to determine block/charge when they also have to check to make sure the defender's feet were outside the circle.

It's a good rule in theory, but it really doesn't help things much in the NBA.


And ALL THE TIME you see them not call something when the guy is outside the circle and they will call it when they are in it so it's just one more thing to screw up.

[Wildcat Larry]

Mr. T wrote: Look at it this way, it's like telling a football team they can't play a goal line defense at the 1 yard line because it makes it too hard to run the ball in.
No way it could be compared to that. It's more like telling a team that they can play offsides if the ball is inside the 5 yardline in order to get a defensive advantage. ;)

[Mr. T]

Wildcat Larry wrote: Mr. T wrote: Look at it this way, it's like telling a football team they can't play a goal line defense at the 1 yard line because it makes it too hard to run the ball in.
No way it could be compared to that. It's more like telling a team that they can play offsides if the ball is inside the 5 yardline in order to get a defensive advantage. ;)

Nope, as you are NEVER allowed to play offsides. On the other hand you can draw a charge anywhere on the court.

[Wildcat Larry]

Mr. T wrote: Wildcat Larry wrote: Mr. T wrote: Look at it this way, it's like telling a football team they can't play a goal line defense at the 1 yard line because it makes it too hard to run the ball in.
No way it could be compared to that. It's more like telling a team that they can play offsides if the ball is inside the 5 yardline in order to get a defensive advantage. ;)

Nope, as you are NEVER allowed to play offsides. On the other hand you can draw a charge anywhere on the court.
Okay, I'll buy that. How about intentioal grounding. Out in the middle of the field it's loss of down, but from the endzone it's a safety. ;):D:P

[lighthouse]

Wildcat Larry wrote: I just figure anything to take a subjective decision away from the officials, the better. ;):lol:
Larry, I don't think the problem is the rule or the officials. The problem is they are training the officials to make that call from out on the court instead of allowing the lead official on the baseline to call it. The defense determine's block or charge, and nobody has a better look at it than the official the play is moving toward. The officials are doing what the NCAA is asking them to do, I think it's wrong.

[Mr. T]

Wildcat Larry wrote: Mr. T wrote: Wildcat Larry wrote: Mr. T wrote: Look at it this way, it's like telling a football team they can't play a goal line defense at the 1 yard line because it makes it too hard to run the ball in.
No way it could be compared to that. It's more like telling a team that they can play offsides if the ball is inside the 5 yardline in order to get a defensive advantage. ;)

Nope, as you are NEVER allowed to play offsides. On the other hand you can draw a charge anywhere on the court.
Okay, I'll buy that. How about intentioal grounding. Out in the middle of the field it's loss of down, but from the endzone it's a safety. ;):D:P

Yeah, but that's offense not defense :P

[Wildcat Larry]

lighthouse wrote: Wildcat Larry wrote: I just figure anything to take a subjective decision away from the officials, the better. ;):lol:
Larry, I don't think the problem is the rule or the officials. The problem is they are training the officials to make that call from out on the court instead of allowing the lead official on the baseline to call it. The defense determine's block or charge, and nobody has a better look at it than the official the play is moving toward. The officials are doing what the NCAA is asking them to do, I think it's wrong.
Excellent point. Thanks for the input, it's good to hear your take on the matter.

[Wildcat Larry]

Mr. T wrote: Wildcat Larry wrote: Mr. T wrote: Wildcat Larry wrote: Mr. T wrote: Look at it this way, it's like telling a football team they can't play a goal line defense at the 1 yard line because it makes it too hard to run the ball in.
No way it could be compared to that. It's more like telling a team that they can play offsides if the ball is inside the 5 yardline in order to get a defensive advantage. ;)

Nope, as you are NEVER allowed to play offsides. On the other hand you can draw a charge anywhere on the court.
Okay, I'll buy that. How about intentioal grounding. Out in the middle of the field it's loss of down, but from the endzone it's a safety. ;):D:P

Yeah, but that's offense not defense :P
It just doesn't pay to argue with Mr. T. ;):shock:

[cats4lifenc]

FINALLY!!! someone mentions the worst thing in college..i hate it when the refs give a timeout to a guy flying out of bounds......i could be wrong and if i am i am sure to be corrected here...but...do the rules not say that you have to have established position on the floor IN BOUNDS before you can call a timeout....if not then it should be changed...this simply should not be allowed
FCFS82 wrote: Gotta get rid of the "timeout in midair" rule before that one.

[Mr. T]

Wildcat Larry wrote: Mr. T wrote:Yeah, but that's offense not defense :P
It just doesn't pay to argue with Mr. T. ;):shock:

When it comes to arguments, I'm like a boxer, I beat my opponents into submission.... just ask my wife. Doesn't matter if I am actually correct or not, by the end you WILL believe that I am!!!! It's like torture, I just stay on ya till you give in! :ggrin:

[lighthouse]

Mr. T wrote: When it comes to arguments, I'm like a boxer, I beat my opponents into submission.... just ask my wife. Doesn't matter if I am actually correct or not, by the end you WILL believe that I am!!!! It's like torture, I just stay on ya till you give in! :ggrin:
You'd make a great coach Mr. T, and you would probably get some of them too. :D

[Mr. T]

lighthouse wrote: Mr. T wrote: When it comes to arguments, I'm like a boxer, I beat my opponents into submission.... just ask my wife. Doesn't matter if I am actually correct or not, by the end you WILL believe that I am!!!! It's like torture, I just stay on ya till you give in! :ggrin:
You'd make a great coach Mr. T, and you would probably get some of them too. :D

I'd get a "T" you mean.... har har :ggrin:

[UedK]

Wildcat Larry wrote: I think it's time to make a rule change to bring the semi-circle into play beneath the basket where you can't take a charge. It was tried in some exhibition and early season tournament games, and I liked it.Do it and while we are at it go back to two officals.