Arkansas messed over on a 10 second (no-) call

[Athens2005]

Tied at 55, the Bucknell player had the ball in the backcourt and the shot clock was already at 25 seconds, then, he jumps up and hits a man under the basket with a pass.
By the time the guy catches it, the clock is clearly reading "24".

He hits a wide-open lay-up that puts Bucknell in the lead for good.


The announcer says, "That was 9 and a half seconds." :thumbdown:tongue:?:X

[VIIBanners]

it was 9.5 seconds.... you heard the experts.

[Mr. T]

I have never been able to figure out how you can blow a 10 second call when you have clocks all over the arena.

[Wildcat Larry]

I concur, but still can't figure out why Heath didn't call TO when the Hogs had the ball at the end.

[Mr. T]

Wildcat Larry wrote: I concur, but still can't figure out why Heath didn't call TO when the Hogs had the ball at the end.

Initially I think it is good to NOT call the TO and try to get the defense before they are set, but once you see the offense is all over the place you gotta call it. Maybe they didn't have any though, I'm not sure.

[Doug Hardin]

What's the rule on this? Does someone in the frontcourt have to have possession within 10 seconds, or does the ball just have to leave the backcourt within 10 seconds? Basically, if the ball is in the air at the 10 second mark, is that a violation?

I thought it was really close whether the pass was made before the clock reached :25, but the player who scored clearly didn't catch the ball until :24 left on the shot clock.

[Classof93]

Arkanasas got messed over when their AD, Mr. Broyles, hired Stan Heath. They finally made it to the dance and assuming Brewer decides to cash a check, will not be back to the dance next season.

[Mr. T]

FCFS82 wrote: Lighthouse can correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought the ball just had to be out of the backcourt in 10 seconds...

...just like the ball just has to be out of the inbounders hands on the 5-second rule.



I am pretty sure you are correct, but I think he still had it in his hands (in backcourt) with under 25 on the shot clock.

[Wildcat Larry]

Mr. T wrote: Wildcat Larry wrote: I concur, but still can't figure out why Heath didn't call TO when the Hogs had the ball at the end.

Initially I think it is good to NOT call the TO and try to get the defense before they are set, but once you see the offense is all over the place you gotta call it. Maybe they didn't have any though, I'm not sure.
They had a timeout because they called it to ice the freethrow shooter, which never works and didn't this time. I still say you set something up to be sure you get Brewer an open shot. That's the way I would coach.

[KY Native in IN]

i had them going to the sweet 16...oh well...

[tauzreborn]

I saw a ten second call made earlier in the season where the ball was thrown before 10 seconds but the guy caught it past the 10 second mark. I believe the possesion stays with the passer until it touches someone else.

[wildcatdon]

if the ball is in the air and 10 seconds has expired,it is a violation,even if it has crossed midcourt...it must be in someone's possession or have touched the floor in the frontcourt according to my case book..

[Wildcat Larry]

The last two posts are correct. This was discussed in the Rules forum and it's clear that the rules say it's not in front court until it's in someone's possession in front court. This was a possible game changing no-call that the refs just plain blew.

[lighthouse]

Mr. T wrote: I have never been able to figure out how you can blow a 10 second call when you have clocks all over the arena.

First, let me say The call may have been wrong, I don't know. But to answer this question.

The count is applied by the trail official, and it's his count which may or may not coincide with the clock. For example, I was in a meeting of officials and the commissioner asked everyone to close their eyes. On his whistle, we were to start a 10 second count and when we counted to 10 raise our hand. He said the first hand went up at 8 sec, and the last one at 13. That's the human element of the game. The official never looks at the clock.

[lighthouse]

FCFS82 wrote: Lighthouse can correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought the ball just had to be out of the backcourt in 10 seconds...

...just like the ball just has to be out of the inbounders hands on the 5-second rule.

On the 10 second count, the ball has to be touched in the front court before 10 seconds expire. You're right on the inbound pass, it just has to leave his hands.

[Mr. T]

lighthouse wrote: Mr. T wrote: I have never been able to figure out how you can blow a 10 second call when you have clocks all over the arena.

First, let me say The call may have been wrong, I don't know. But to answer this question.

The count is applied by the trail official, and it's his count which may or may not coincide with the clock. For example, I was in a meeting of officials and the commissioner asked everyone to close their eyes. On his whistle, we were to start a 10 second count and when we counted to 10 raise our hand. He said the first hand went up at 8 sec, and the last one at 13. That's the human element of the game. The official never looks at the clock.


And the fact that there can be that much variation in a "10 second" count is absurd. In that case the refs need to carry handheld timers with 5 and 10 sec buttons. I understand the human element but a 50% variation is totally unreasonable. Especially as it isn't always the same official. That means on a critical possession one team may get the "8 second" official or they may get the "13 second" official.

[Wildcat Larry]

I watched the replay on MMOD and here's what I saw. The ball did not leave the guard's hand in backcourt until the 10 second mark and the ball touched no one in front court until the 11 second mark. The play started a 1:15 on the clock and the guy in front court touched the ball at 1:04 and scored immediately.

[Mr. T]

Thanks for the clarification on the rule though lighthouse. I'm to lazy to go the ncaa site and look it up.

[Athens2005]

lighthouse wrote: FCFS82 wrote: Lighthouse can correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought the ball just had to be out of the backcourt in 10 seconds...

...just like the ball just has to be out of the inbounders hands on the 5-second rule.

On the 10 second count, the ball has to be touched in the front court before 10 seconds expire. You're right on the inbound pass, it just has to leave his hands.
Since the clock should always be right, an official (especially when a shot clock is in use), should always consider looking to it for verification.

Think about this, Lighthouse. If the official who reached "10" at 8 seconds whistles a violation, how will they be able to justify this if a 35 second shot clock is currently reading "27"?
There is absolutely no good justification for this that would hold weight.

And, the official who took 13 seconds to count to 10, well, he should be able to glance at the clock (especially once a pass is airborn) and check to see if he is correct or not.

Three officials - tons of clocks - ball in air - easy call to make.

[lighthouse]

I understand what you're saying Athens, but the 8 & 13 second counts are the extreme and not the norm. In the room that day the majority were between 9.5 & 10.5 seconds. After the test, it was suggested that we stand in front of the microwave and practice our counts, which is what I did. Another point, it's very difficult for an official to look at the clock during play because there are many other things they are concerned with besides the count.

[Mr. T]

Like I said, they need timers with 5 and 10 sec buttons. Once the ball is inbounded click the 10 sec button and if it goes off in your hand (vibration) and the ball is still in backcourt it's a violation. I understand the subjectivity of officiating, but timing issues/rules shouldn't be subjective.