A Problem I am noticing

[RP_McMurphy]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.

[teamchemistry09]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.

Players like Majok, Harrelson, and Flemmings are not "junk" but what you have to realize is that the best players in the class arent left.

[LiveBlue]

Flemings and Harrelson are not "junk". Flemings is an NBA prospect and a great scorer which is exactly what we need. and Harrelson by all scouts reports can step in and immediately be an upgrade over Stevenson and be able to put the ball in the basketball. Majok has huge upside, but is probably two years away from reaching his potential. The guys Gillispie is going after are immediate contributors. Besides, Goach G hasn't even put together one recruiting class, so you haven't "noticed" anything. You don't know what kind of players he brings in. I think you need to step back and let Coach Gillispie do his job and leave player evalution up to the people who know what they are talking about.

Just my opinion.

[DerbyCityGlobetrotter]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.


yeah, none of these guys are junk . Majok,Flemings and Harrelson are major immediate impact guys. I'm not real excited about Verdell Jones but other than him I have little concern.

[matt colvin]

You should also remember guys like Flemmings and Galloway would only be here for two years.

Harrelson would be 3?

Flemmings is a hot commodity. Not just because it is late in the signing period, but because he's a really good player. Nice size for his position as well.

[countrycat]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.
Maybe you should apply for recruiting corridinater. Just kidding. The man has done a great job recruiting in the short time he has been here.

[JWORLD]

yeah, none of these guys are junk . Majok,Flemings and Harrelson are major immediate impact guys. I'm not real excited about Verdell Jones but other than him I have little concern.


I agree 100%. :thumbup::thumbup:

Now i will have a problem if for some reason we don't get either Flemmings,Harrellson, or Majok.

[DBCAT]

Wasn't it Spring time when Gillispie signed Patterson??? It couldn't have been if he only goes after "junk" in the Spring.

[Will Lavender]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.

Flemings and Harrelson are every bit the talents that Majok is. In fact you're talking about two guys who, because of their age and their bodies, would contribute more right away than Majok, IMO.

You sort of have it in your mind that JUCO players can't help. You're wrong. Look at the schools that are recruiting these players. (Flemings and Harrelson, I mean.) Look at their stats, their sizes, their bodies.

If we can get Flemings or Harrelson, it'll be a major accomplishment. Flemings is a guy that NBA SCOUTS are after. I mean come on.

[JWORLD]

I would like to see us add Flemmings and Harrellson this year. Add Hood,Wall,and Favors next year.....................

[DerbyCityGlobetrotter]

I would like to see us add Flemmings and Harrellson this year. Add Hood,Wall,and Favors next year.....................

You certainly don't ask for much do you?:icon_lol:

[DTBrand]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.

Name two big-time recruits that he is not trying to bring here for next year. There is no-one left! He is recruiting the best he can bring to UK, and by no means are they junk. Harrelson, Flemings, Majok, Sutton, McCoy. Not one is junk. You under-estimate the talent these kids have.

[JWORLD]

You certainly don't ask for much do you?:icon_lol:


Well, since this is UK and cream of the crop, i wouldn't expect anything less:icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_lol::icon_lo l: Throw Rinardo Sydney in the mix also...........

Not sure if we have 6 scholarships over the next two years but if they were to come, we would have to find room to accomodate them.....

[countrycat]

Well, since this is UK and cream of the crop, i wouldn't expect anything less:icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_lol::icon_lo l: Throw Rinardo Sydney in the mix also...........

Not sure if we have 6 scholarships over the next two years but if they were to come, we would have to find room to accomodate them.....
Not trying to burst your bubble but we used to be well noted in the college basketball world. We were a lot more reguarded by recruits but we were left a mid-major instead of our rightfull place at the top of the heap. It will take BCG a while to get us back to where we used to be. In other words we used to be the "cream of the crop" and under BCG we will be again, I have no doubts about that.

[Blue_N_White]

I think (stress "THINK") I might know what the thread starter is referring to.

There are an awful lot of threads being started by forum members that are proclaiming their own personal interest in a player. And many times, that player is a "project" or a complete unknown. So perhaps RP_McMurphy is confusing the forum member who started the thread as an actual interest from Coach Gillispie.

Also, maybe he is a little disappointed by all the "walk ons", and that the names being mentioned as "potential recruits" haven't committed yet. Maybe he sees that as "slipping"...when a JUCO player that UK is interested in isn't salivating that Kentucky is interested in him, and hasn't committed ASAP!

I understand the frustration. It wasn't that long ago (pre-Tubby) that Kentucky routinely had a top 10 recruiting class. It wasn't that long ago that a UK recruiting class was full of 4 and 5 star McDonalds All-Americans, First-Team All-State and Mr. Basketball type players.

But the thing to remember is that this is Coach Gillispie's first year as a full-time recruiter for UK. This is his first year of having the resources at his disposal to be able to recruit UK caliber players...and his hands are tied a bit because of previous commitments from the previous coaching regime. Also, his time during the season was probably devoted to implementing a system, and turning around the program more so than hitting the scouting and recruiting trail.

But rest assured...as long as he is allowed to avoid entertaining offers from places like Oklahoma State, and he is entrenched as UK's coach and dedicated to the position...the recruits will come. As has been mentioned...the guys currently being considered are all good players...so it's not like Kentucky is having to "settle" for leftovers.........

[countrycat]

I think (stress "THINK") I might know what the thread starter is referring to.

There are an awful lot of threads being started by forum members that are proclaiming their own personal interest in a player. And many times, that player is a "project" or a complete unknown. So perhaps RP_McMurphy is confusing the forum member who started the thread as an actual interest from Coach Gillispie.

Also, maybe he is a little disappointed by all the "walk ons", and that the names being mentioned as "potential recruits" haven't committed yet. Maybe he sees that as "slipping"...when a JUCO player that UK is interested in isn't salivating that Kentucky is interested in him, and hasn't committed ASAP!

I understand the frustration. It wasn't that long ago (pre-Tubby) that Kentucky routinely had a top 10 recruiting class. It wasn't that long ago that a UK recruiting class was full of 4 and 5 star McDonalds All-Americans, First-Team All-State and Mr. Basketball type players.

But the thing to remember is that this is Coach Gillispie's first year as a full-time recruiter for UK. This is his first year of having the resources at his disposal to be able to recruit UK caliber players...and his hands are tied a bit because of previous commitments from the previous coaching regime. Also, his time during the season was probably devoted to implementing a system, and turning around the program more so than hitting the scouting and recruiting trail.

But rest assured...as long as he is allowed to avoid entertaining offers from places like Oklahoma State, and he is entrenched as UK's coach and dedicated to the position...the recruits will come. As has been mentioned...the guys currently being considered are all good players...so it's not like Kentucky is having to "settle" for leftovers.........
I can understand the frustration in a sense but BCG is trying to fill a serious talent void and is doing it the best he can witch is probably hat you just said. It will not take that long at all IMHO for BCG to get us back to the top of the mountain.

[JWORLD]

Not trying to burst your bubble but we used to be well noted in the college basketball world. We were a lot more reguarded by recruits but we were left a mid-major instead of our rightfull place at the top of the heap. It will take BCG a while to get us back to where we used to be. In other words we used to be the "cream of the crop" and under BCG we will be again, I have no doubts about that.


Im not buying into that, that's a bunch of bulllll if you know what i mean. When you look at our tradition, our facilities, and the exposure UK gets,UK should be able to get right back into the mix of things immediately......

[wildcat74]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.

huh?:shrug1:

[Blue Heaven]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.
A lot of the players in this years class had already chose a school when BCG got here. Just look at the rankings for the next few years classes and tell me he isn't doing better than you-know-who. It's exciting again just to have our names at or near the tops of these kids lists. I agree with you a lot, but this one has me wondering if you took your meds today.

[Will Lavender]

If you look at who Gillispie has missed on, really the only significant player I can point at is Singleton. That was in November.

I'm sure they would have liked Hopson -- but from reports I've read, the staff wasn't as high on him as many others. I don't think they were as high on Hopson as they are on Flemings and Harrellson (and maybe Majok).

If we can get one or two of those three, it'll be big.

And you can't just sit on the scholarship with the roster as thin as it is. Waiting until next year sounds fine and dandy in theory, but I'll wait for RP to tell us how patient of a man he is when we're playing in the 50s next year because we lack another big-time scorer. I'm going to say the "We should hold the scholarship" talk will be long forgotten at that point.

[Blue_N_White]

And you can't just sit on the scholarship with the roster as thin as it is. Waiting until next year sounds fine and dandy in theory, but I'll wait for RP to tell us how patient of a man he is when we're playing in the 50s next year because we lack another big-time scorer. I'm going to say the "We should hold the scholarship" talk will be long forgotten at that point.

There are reports that the Cats could see about a couple of players (Williams? etc.) transferring...and another or two possibly going on an academic scholarship, to free up more scholarships to offer for this year. And like you said...with the roster not devoid of warm bodies, but of TALENT....like it is, at this point one can certainly hope that this is the case.....

[leroybyrd]

If you look at who Gillispie has missed on, really the only significant player I can point at is Singleton. That was in November.

I'm sure they would have liked Hopson -- but from reports I've read, the staff wasn't as high on him as many others. I don't think they were as high on Hopson as they are on Flemings and Harrellson (and maybe Majok).

If we can get one or two of those three, it'll be big.

And you can't just sit on the scholarship with the roster as thin as it is. Waiting until next year sounds fine and dandy in theory, but I'll wait for RP to tell us how patient of a man he is when we're playing in the 50s next year because we lack another big-time scorer. I'm going to say the "We should hold the scholarship" talk will be long forgotten at that point.

If you offer and don't get a commitment it is a miss. We missed on Singleton and Hopson. Others we missed on include, Jennings, Zeller, Warren, Clarke, Osby, J'Mison Morgan, Demarcus Cousins and Tony Woods. I believe there may be others.

I am taking a wait and see approach, but I must say that I am beginning to get frustrated, especially when I look n the 2009 top 100 list and see that UNC has already got commitments from 2 5 stars and 2 4 stars.

We need to start getting some commitments. I think we should have already had a few more, not sure why we don't. Hopefully we'll start to see a couple of these high profile 09's commit. We need some good news.

[countrycat]

Im not buying into that, that's a bunch of bulllll if you know what i mean. When you look at our tradition, our facilities, and the exposure UK gets,UK should be able to get right back into the mix of things immediately......
JP and TF would be able to do it before BCG i guess. You told someone the other day you knew alot about UK basketball, I wander.:shrug1: We still have facilities and exposure but our tradition has suffered lately because of our pervious coach. Some UK fans expect things to happen yesterday like the past few years did not happen. The last few years our NCAA seeds were way to high for us to be reguarded in the same way we used to be. Now that has happened you can not pretend it did not.

[poodoo]

I am taking a wait and see approach, but I must say that I am beginning to get frustrated, especially when I look n the 2009 top 100 list and see that UNC has already got commitments from 2 5 stars and 2 4 stars.



I'm not getting at all frustrated. While I'm admit that we had two available schoarships before we added juco Galloway and are still in need of a couple more players this spring (and that part of the OP's post seems to be his trying to be fair), I certainly do NOT see these players we're still recruiting as "junk." Yes, of course, though, we do need actually to GET a couple of those guys, as someone pointed out here. A huge problem in the past had been our finishing up as the runner-up, frankly.

YET, in the statement you just mentioned about UNC, leroybyrd, I see a PROBLEM that exists for other recruiters, including UK. That problem is RoyWilliam's going to UNC, as I stated in a thread, quoting a West coast writer on recruiting. That writer said Roy Williams/UNC is a combination that beats out EVERY other program in recruiting, from coast to coast. Our program has already thusly been BURNED by Williams at UNC, especially the losses of Tyler Hansbrough and Brandan Wright. Most agree that losing out to Williams and UNC so hurt Kentucky the past few seasons, as we repeatedly did not get that sorely needed top-tier power forward. :icon_frown: Anyway, your examples are reality, unfortunately.

I LOVE Coach Gillispie as a recruiter, because he works SO HARD at it. So many bemoaned how we had been outrecruited by Roy Williams because of "style of play," though. Unfortunately, I suspect some of the top players are STILL going to find UNC and Roy appealing, more so than boot camp and playing so hard at BOTH ends. That is a likely reality that we fans are going to have to face.

Coach Gillispie's assistant, Coach Cyprien, has already said that Coach Gillispie has always liked to recruit the "blue-collar" guys. In other words, I suspect we are going to continue to lose out on some of those top recruits, especially the top scorers. We fans had better accept that and TRUST Coach Gillispie to do HIS job, in my humble opinion.

Personally, I DO trust him. I'm not frustrated. I'm just looking forward to UK fans' making Coach's job easier by LOUDLY cheering Majok, McCoy, and Sutton at the Derby Classsic. :) Again, those guys, along with Flemings and Harrelson, are far from "junk." :) GO CATS!!!

[JWORLD]

If you offer and don't get a commitment it is a miss. We missed on Singleton and Hopson. Others we missed on include, Jennings, Zeller, Warren, Clarke, Osby, J'Mison Morgan, Demarcus Cousins and Tony Woods. I believe there may be others.

I am taking a wait and see approach, but I must say that I am beginning to get frustrated, especially when I look n the 2009 top 100 list and see that UNC has already got commitments from 2 5 stars and 2 4 stars.

We need to start getting some commitments. I think we should have already had a few more, not sure why we don't. Hopefully we'll start to see a couple of these high profile 09's commit. We need some good news.


Man, the truth hurts..........Im with you on this:thumbup::thumbup:

[Will Lavender]

If you offer and don't get a commitment it is a miss. We missed on Singleton and Hopson. Others we missed on include, Jennings, Zeller, Warren, Clarke, Osby, J'Mison Morgan, Demarcus Cousins and Tony Woods. I believe there may be others.

A lot of those guys Gillispie was able to recruit for a matter of weeks. Literally.

And if you're frustrated about what UNC is doing, then you're going to be on pins and needles pretty much constantly. Tough to ask Gillispie to come in and take down the best recruiter in the game when he's had such short time to get anything done.

If we're missing out of guys at this time next year, then there's reason for concern. It's important to look at where the program was when Gillispie walked in if we're going to analyze his job on the recruiting front.

[countrycat]

A lot of those guys Gillispie was able to recruit for a matter of weeks. Literally.

And if you're frustrated about what UNC is doing, then you're going to be on pins and needles pretty much constantly. Tough to ask Gillispie to come in and take down the best recruiter in the game when he's had such short time to get anything done.

If we're missing out of guys at this time next year, then there's reason for concern. It's important to look at where the program was when Gillispie walked in if we're going to analyze his job on the recruiting front.
I could not agree more but one thing, Coaches have been in touch with these kids probanly 2 or 3 years. It will probably take BCG the same amount of time to stat getting top recruiting class consistantly and he will. That being said I believe he will get some top 2009 recruits.

[JWORLD]

I could not agree more but one thing, Coaches have been in touch with these kids probanly 2 or 3 years. It will probably take BCG the same amount of time to stat getting top recruiting class consistantly and he will. That being said I believe he will get some top 2009 recruits.


What was he doing at Texas@M? Where's the recruits(Deandre Jordan and ??????) that he has been recruiting for the last couple of years? Being from a school like Kentucky, it should only help to seal the deal.I rarely get into debates about Tubby, becuase i am for one glad he's gone(great person,wonderful coach),but he has put more recruits in the NBA than Pitino or Gillispie.

Problem with kids these days is that they don't wan't to play in a dribble,dribble,dribble,slowdown 1940's style of basketball, they wan't a uptempo system where they can get out and run and showcase there skills in preperation for the NBA(McDonald's 5 star recruits).Coaches like Pearl,Donavon,Pitino, and even Ford and Pelphrey can sell a recruit on style of play.My knock on Gillispie is that im still waiting for fast,fast, and faster but i have to give him the benefit of the doubt until the team is healthy and he adds another couple of studs to the stable.

Here's what's sad and i absolutely cannot stand it. If a top recruit has his choice down to Kentucky or Louisville. Each coach gets one shot to make a pass, who gets the recruit??

That's what i thought, it sucks doesn't it.................


Whatever it is, it stinks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't like it...........Two bad Pat Riley isn't 20 years younger................

[lighthouse]

Im not buying into that, that's a bunch of bulllll if you know what i mean. When you look at our tradition, our facilities, and the exposure UK gets,UK should be able to get right back into the mix of things immediately......

You wish, I wish, but in today's world it just doesn't happen that quick.

[Will Lavender]

What was he doing at Texas@M? Where's the recruits(Deandre Jordan and ??????) that he has been recruiting for the last couple of years? Being from a school like Kentucky, it should only help to seal the deal.

Pretty simplistic view of things, don't you think?

We do have recruits that Gillispie was in on and brought with him because of Texas ties. We obviously have Patterson. (Funny how people often forget him...) And we've got GJ and KC the next two years.

But there aren't a lot of kids that are going to just up and follow Gillispie to Kentucky. He's going to have to cut some inroads at UK, and those inroads are clogged up because the previous staff was having such a difficult time landing players.

Folks, the guy's been here for 12 months. He's landed one of the best players in the country in Patterson. He's landed a top 20 player in Liggins. He's landed a potential top 10 player in KC Ross-Miller. He's landed Kentucky's Mr. Basketball. And he's now after two (count 'em) top flight JUCO kids and a beast of a foreign player.

My Lord, what more do you all want the man to do?

[billoliver40]

Man, the truth hurts..........Im with you on this:thumbup::thumbup:

More truth...Duke has 7 McDonald's All americans on the team. Really smoked UK in the tourney this year, Huh?

Beasley was the best 'get' in his class. Gone.
UConn had the best class in the world two years ago. How'd they do?
Florida wasn't supposed to miss a beat with the best class in the history of the school coming in this year. Whoops.

Chill, guys....I think most analysts hit it right. Gillispie's recruits are what he sees as sophomores and juniors. What they become in his system.

You really think Hopson would have lasted through hell week? There is
a rare kid like Patrick Patterson, but how many high-school superstars
that have been told they are 'can't miss NBAers 'since the 6th grade
will have the fortitude and will power to last through Gillispie's coaching
style and how many would leave? Some people have wondered what
Rondo, Crawford, Bradley and Morris would have been if they signed with
Gillispie as freshman. I can tell you what I think they'd have been...gone.

Patience....give the man three years with this system and some luck with
folks being healthy before we start getting frustrated.

If I remember right, I think Acie Law was kind of judged a low 4 star to
3 star when he went to A&M. He turned out all right.

[FCFS82]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.

Eh, Go Cats.

[countrycat]

What was he doing at Texas@M? Where's the recruits(Deandre Jordan and ??????) that he has been recruiting for the last couple of years? Being from a school like Kentucky, it should only help to seal the deal.I rarely get into debates about Tubby, becuase i am for one glad he's gone(great person,wonderful coach),but he has put more recruits in the NBA than Pitino or Gillispie.

Problem with kids these days is that they don't wan't to play in a dribble,dribble,dribble,slowdown 1940's style of basketball, they wan't a uptempo system where they can get out and run and showcase there skills in preperation for the NBA(McDonald's 5 star recruits).Coaches like Pearl,Donavon,Pitino, and even Ford and Pelphrey can sell a recruit on style of play.My knock on Gillispie is that im still waiting for fast,fast, and faster but i have to give him the benefit of the doubt until the team is healthy and he adds another couple of studs to the stable.

Here's what's sad and i absolutely cannot stand it. If a top recruit has his choice down to Kentucky or Louisville. Each coach gets one shot to make a pass, who gets the recruit??

That's what i thought, it sucks doesn't it.................


Whatever it is, it stinks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't like it...........Two bad Pat Riley isn't 20 years younger................
Shurely you do not think with the lack of depth on our team last year he could have did a lot of running. The reason Petino could run and press was because he had 10 or more players he could turn to. After our best 5 we had nothing to turn to. Everyone we played last year had more deapth than uk, and he still beat JP, who I love as a coach and former player, but he is not in BCG league as a coach. When he gets some deapth, he will show what UK is all about again, and players will be knocking on our door again. You forget or ignore BCG has been here 1 year and it takes some time. If you are so impatient you want it now, at this second you are going to be disappointed and think "it stinks". And show you are not very realistic.

[JOHN BLUEBLOOD]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.

5 star and 4 star players are pretty good. Gillispie got in late for 2008, it takes a couple of years to really get the Blue-chips. Besides, Miller and Liggins alone are a top-15 class and most big-time recruits had committed before BCG got here. Another thing, recruiting isn't over yet.

Oh, in the spring of 2007, Gillispie hauled in a guy named Patrick Patterson and a guy named Alex Legion - not exactly junk.

[Blue_N_White]

What was he doing at Texas@M? Where's the recruits(Deandre Jordan and ??????) that he has been recruiting for the last couple of years? Being from a school like Kentucky, it should only help to seal the deal.

It's been reported that Coach Gillispie felt a little bad leaving the university (Texas A&M)..and didn't want to "rub salt in the wound" when he left by asking Jordan to come with him (to UK). He would have had to ask the university to release the kid from his NLOI...and he didn't want to do that, after leaving the school in a position to have to find a head coach late in the school year!


I rarely get into debates about Tubby, becuase i am for one glad he's gone(great person,wonderful coach),but he has put more recruits in the NBA than Pitino or Gillispie.

Must correct you on this one.

I've said on numerous, numerous occasions to anyone who would listen...that I really liked Tubby Smith - the man. Thought he would have made a great Athletic Director (i.e. - like C.M Newton was). Didn't like Tubby Smith - the coach, very much. Questioned many of his decisions on a regular basis. And hated Tubby Smith - the recruiter. Hated his "avoid early NBA draft entrants and focus on 4 year players and projects" approach to college basketball.

Now...having said that....Pitino, in his 8 years at UK, successfully recruited and developed many more players that wound up playing in the NBA than Tubby did in 10 years.

Here are some names of players that Pitino (in 8 years) was responsible for: Jamal Mashburn, Antoine Walker, Tony Delk, Ron Mercer, Derek Anderson, Walter McCarty, Mark Pope, Scott Padget, Nazr Mohammed, Jamaal Magloire (10 in 8 years)

While Tubby recruited and "developed" (in 10 years): Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Kelenna Azubuike, Chuck Hayes, Randolph Morris, Rajon Rondo. (6 in 10 years)

And Coach Gillispie is responsible for bringing Deron Williams, the Utah Jazz All-Star Point Guard, to Illinois. Gillispie was also responsible for bringing Acie Law, current Hawks PG and former Aggie All-American, to Texas A&M. And Jordan to A&M (last year's #2 rated Center)....so he does recognize talent, and have a decent (albeit short) record of attracting it to the school he is associated with....

[ibleedblue2]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.


When BCG got here he had to go after the best of the recruits left over. Geez, where do these guys come from? Harrelson is supposed to be a force inside, averaging a dd. He got game. From what I have seen from Majok, he was trained like a pitbull. Flemings? I bet he is awesome. From what I have read about him, he seems to be. Cut the coach some slack guys, we are rebuilding. If we don't add another big, we are hurting inside when 2Pat and Perry get tired.

[jkeller]

It's been reported that Coach Gillispie felt a little bad leaving the university (Texas A&M)..and didn't want to "rub salt in the wound" when he left by asking Jordan to come with him (to UK). He would have had to ask the university to release the kid from his NLOI...and he didn't want to do that, after leaving the school in a position to have to find a head coach late in the school year!



Must correct you on this one.

I've said on numerous, numerous occasions to anyone who would listen...that I really liked Tubby Smith - the man. Thought he would have made a great Athletic Director (i.e. - like C.M Newton was). Didn't like Tubby Smith - the coach, very much. Questioned many of his decisions on a regular basis. And hated Tubby Smith - the recruiter. Hated his "avoid early NBA draft entrants and focus on 4 year players and projects" approach to college basketball.

Now...having said that....Pitino, in his 8 years at UK, successfully recruited and developed many more players that wound up playing in the NBA than Tubby did in 10 years.

Here are some names of players that Pitino (in 8 years) was responsible for: Jamal Mashburn, Antoine Walker, Tony Delk, Ron Mercer, Derek Anderson, Walter McCarty, Mark Pope, Scott Padget, Nazr Mohammed, Jamaal Magloire (10 in 8 years)

While Tubby recruited and "developed" (in 10 years): Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Kelenna Azubuike, Chuck Hayes, Randolph Morris, Rajon Rondo. (6 in 10 years)

And Coach Gillispie is responsible for bringing Deron Williams, the Utah Jazz All-Star Point Guard, to Illinois. Gillispie was also responsible for bringing Acie Law, current Hawks PG and former Aggie All-American, to Texas A&M. And Jordan to A&M (last year's #2 rated Center)....so he does recognize talent, and have a decent (albeit short) record of attracting it to the school he is associated with....

From what I understood Gillispie absolutely did not want to poach Jordan from A&M. He wanted him to honor his LOI unless he decided he didn't want to play for Turgeon. Jordan met Turgeon and everything was A-OK and he honored his commitment to A&M.:shrug1:

As someone stated before, Acie Law was not a Burger Boy by a long shot. He was probably at the same kind of rankings level out of high school that (one of the "junk":icon_rolleyes: players we are currently recruiting) Paul McCoy is at. It's easy to look back in hindsight and see that Acie Law was a great recruiting victory for Gillispie, but that is after seeing him set the world on fire. Some of our "fans" would be crapping on him if he were an '08 recruit for Kentucky (where only 5 stars need apply:icon_rolleyes:)

The bottom line is I trust Billy Gillispie as a far better judge of basketball talent and players that are a good fit for his philosophy than all of these arm chair recruiting gurus whose understanding of a kid's abilities begins and ends with the number of stars beside their name on a website they probably don't even subscribe to.

[Bombastic Blue]

Billy G. is starting to slip into the habit of going after less than quality recruits in the spring just to fill the numbers. I got on Tubby for putting junk on the team with his spring classes and now I have get on Billy G. for the same stuff. Unless it's Majok I don't want any other players this spring. Save the scholarships for the more talented class of 09.

I'm sure Coach will take your "wants" into consideration......NOT!

[Levi]

Gawd the guy has been hewre one year!

[JWORLD]

[quote=Blue_N_White;443122]It's been reported that Coach Gillispie felt a little bad leaving the university (Texas A&M)..and didn't want to "rub salt in the wound" when he left by asking Jordan to come with him (to UK). He would have had to ask the university to release the kid from his NLOI...and he didn't want to do that, after leaving the school in a position to have to find a head coach late in the school year!



Must correct you on this one.

I've said on numerous, numerous occasions to anyone who would listen...that I really liked Tubby Smith - the man. Thought he would have made a great Athletic Director (i.e. - like C.M Newton was). Didn't like Tubby Smith - the coach, very much. Questioned many of his decisions on a regular basis. And hated Tubby Smith - the recruiter. Hated his "avoid early NBA draft entrants and focus on 4 year players and projects" approach to college basketball.

Now...having said that....Pitino, in his 8 years at UK, successfully recruited and developed many more players that wound up playing in the NBA than Tubby did in 10 years.

Here are some names of players that Pitino (in 8 years) was responsible for: Jamal Mashburn, Antoine Walker, Tony Delk, Ron Mercer, Derek Anderson, Walter McCarty, Mark Pope, Scott Padget, Nazr Mohammed, Jamaal Magloire (10 in 8 years)

While Tubby recruited and "developed" (in 10 years): Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Kelenna Azubuike, Chuck Hayes, Randolph Morris, Rajon Rondo. (6 in 10 years)





You forgot that Tubby coached Fitch(Heat and Hawks),Daniels(Kings),and soon to be Crawford and possibly Bradley.That equals 10 by my count.

[JWORLD]

More truth...Duke has 7 McDonald's All americans on the team. Really smoked UK in the tourney this year, Huh?

Beasley was the best 'get' in his class. Gone.
UConn had the best class in the world two years ago. How'd they do?
Florida wasn't supposed to miss a beat with the best class in the history of the school coming in this year. Whoops.

Chill, guys....I think most analysts hit it right. Gillispie's recruits are what he sees as sophomores and juniors. What they become in his system.

You really think Hopson would have lasted through hell week? There is
a rare kid like Patrick Patterson, but how many high-school superstars
that have been told they are 'can't miss NBAers 'since the 6th grade
will have the fortitude and will power to last through Gillispie's coaching
style and how many would leave? Some people have wondered what
Rondo, Crawford, Bradley and Morris would have been if they signed with
Gillispie as freshman. I can tell you what I think they'd have been...gone.

Patience....give the man three years with this system and some luck with
folks being healthy before we start getting frustrated.

If I remember right, I think Acie Law was kind of judged a low 4 star to
3 star when he went to A&M. He turned out all right.


The Hawks have so much faith in Law that they traded for Mike Bibby.......

[Will Lavender]

The Hawks have so much faith in Law that they traded for Mike Bibby.......

So what's your point?

Are you using that argument to show that Gillispie can't recruit? Are you saying that Law wasn't a great college point guard?

I don't really understand the relevance of that comment.

[Will Lavender]

You forgot that Tubby coached Fitch(Heat and Hawks),Daniels(Kings),and soon to be Crawford and possibly Bradley.That equals 10 by my count.

Not sure I understand this either.

Are you seriously going to try and argue that Tubby was recruiting the way a coach should at UK? Are you really trying to compare Gillispie to Tubby when Gillispie's been here twelve months? (And when Gillispie had to clean up Tubby's mistakes.) Seriously?

I think you're arguing just to be arguing now.

[freethrow]

I think Coach G is doing what he can to land the best of what is left of this class and juco players so we have a solid team next season. Personally, I think he is doing a fine job. While I am not as excited by some of these other possible recruits as I would be 4 and 5 * players I do feel that these guy's "are" players and will help us. Maybe even more so?

[DTBrand]

So what's your point?

Are you using that argument to show that Gillispie can't recruit? Are you saying that Law wasn't a great college point guard?

I don't really understand the relevance of that comment.

I don't understand the relevance of this thread. BillyClyde has barely been here a year and people are already dogging him about recruits. He hasn't had time to set any roots. This may be Kentucky, but the coach plays a big part in what recruits decide. Let him plant some seeds, and see what happens.

It's amazing what the off-season does.

[RP_McMurphy]

That the route to a National Championship for Kentucky will not and has not ever been with JUCO's on it's roster. Name me one JUCO that has ever worn a National Championship ring at Kentucky. Nope can't do it so to put JUCO's on the roster for a one or two year fix isn't the answer. The problem with the previous regime is that they always seemed in the patching it routine instead of the fixing it routine. The only way to build the program and roster back up is with quality high school players not JUCO's. I have never been and will never be a fan of JUCO's in Kentucky uniforms. JUCO's are not the answer......Renardo Sidney's and John Wall's are the answer.

[DTBrand]

That the route to a National Championship for Kentucky will not and has not ever been with JUCO's on it's roster. Name me one JUCO that has ever worn a National Championship ring at Kentucky. Nope can't do it so to put JUCO's on the roster for a one or two year fix isn't the answer. The problem with the previous regime is that they always seemed in the patching it routine instead of the fixing it routine. The only way to build the program and roster back up is with quality high school players not JUCO's. I have never been and will never be a fan of JUCO's in Kentucky uniforms. JUCO's are not the answer......Renardo Sidney's and John Wall's are the answer.

Getting JUCO's for 08' has nothing to do with Sidney and Wall. Different class obviously so what's your point? Who else is he going to get for 08'? Why not take highly touted JUCO's? There is no one else.

[RP_McMurphy]

Use the energy and time to convince Renardo Sidney and John Wall they can help bring a national championship to Lexington.

[FCFS82]

And you can't just sit on the scholarship with the roster as thin as it is. Waiting until next year sounds fine and dandy in theory, but I'll wait for RP to tell us how patient of a man he is when we're playing in the 50s next year because we lack another big-time scorer. I'm going to say the "We should hold the scholarship" talk will be long forgotten at that point.

Bang! Frame this and keep it under glass for next December/January.

:thumbup:

[DTBrand]

Use the energy and time to convince Renardo Sidney and John Wall they can help bring a national championship to Lexington.

I see what your saying but I take it as, forget about next year there is no hope. When it could be the last year year we have PatPat. Why not get the best that is left for 08' and make some noise next year? Let people know that UK will be on top very, very soon, and be the team next year that nobody wants to play in the tournament.

[poodoo]

More truth...Duke has 7 McDonald's All americans on the team. Really smoked UK in the tourney this year, Huh?

Patience....give the man three years with this system and some luck with
folks being healthy before we start getting frustrated.

If I remember right, I think Acie Law was kind of judged a low 4 star to
3 star when he went to A&M. He turned out all right.

Exactly, billoliver.

As I read through the thread, I saw a lot of blaming the previous staff (and sure there were misses and mistakes, and we especially need more athleticism, but at some point the past must be let go)AND expectations that Coach Gillispie soon will get all those four- and five-star recruits of which we fans are dreaming. Repeat--Coach reportedly recruits mostly "blue-collar" guys. Repeat--the main losses of the previous staff were power forwards that ROY WILLIAMS grabbed, leaving us as a disappointed runner-up. Repeat--Coach Gillispie's style and emphasis is rather similar to our former staff's and is not going to cause us to win over some of those top guys that are more enamored by a style of play that is run and gun and less disciplined. Repeat (similarly)--some of those guys are not going to choose boot camp and having to play tenacious over WILLIAMS' style and others. I sense some fans are thinking there will soon be miraculous changes in those regards, and I'm far from sure of that, based on what I've seen and heard, although I'm naturally hoping they are right.

Is my post not supportive of Coach Gillispie" Quite the opposite! I STRONGLY support Coach Gillispie. Just as billoliver is saying, pointing out how well Duke performed in the Tourney with all its McDonald's All-Americans (NOT!), I think Coach Gillispie's system of recruiting is FINE and can still WIN games and championships. In other words, I think he can do more with less.

I do think Coach must succeed at getting HIS type of players to come here, though, and, yes, SOME of the commitments need to be highly ranked guys. Yet, he does not automatically FAIL as a recruiter and coach merely because he does not get one of the highest ranked classes every year, even down the road.

Too, even his teams' winning a lot of games will not automatically cause all the top recruits to come running to Kentucky. Kentucky had the winningest program in the country for three straight years and STILL lost out to Roy Williams for a position it had sorely needed, for example. In other words, there are no guarantees that Coach will get the recruits WE FANS want him to get. Failure to get those guys will NOT mean that he has failed as a recruiter and coach, though, far from it.

The HUGE positive, though, is that NO ONE will out-work Coach Gillispie. That is all we fans can fairly ask, in my opinion. Too, I agree with others here that recruiting will get much better over time (although I'm still expecting a fine class THIS year, for I do not consider those recruits "junk"). I think UK/Coach G can even become a GREAT recruiting combination. YET, still again, my concern is fans' having unrealistic expectations for Coach G's recruiting (and style of play, too) and potentially becoming disappointed in him and not as supportive. I do NOT want THAT to happen.

Am I frustrated? Again, NO! Besides this year's being Coach's first full year, I see a man who shined as a coach after they bought into his system. I see a man who showed that he can get his players to perform ABOVE their talent level. I see a coach that was named SEC Coach of the Year after having with starters' miss a total of 43 games, besides having some holes in the roster he had inherited.

In summary, I think the man WILL WIN with the recruits he gets (and I sense that billoliver thinks the same). Yes, we need SOME highly ranked guys, BUT I think he can do that without getting as many as some expect him to get. I truly trust Coach Billy Gillispie to do the job with whatever recruits HE chooses and convinces to come to Kentucky. I wish we fans would meanwhile be a bit more patient, forgetting the past and looking to the FUTURE with HOPE. I think that FUTURE is BRIGHT, especially if Coach gets a couple more of HIS targets this spring. Just my humble opinion on the matter. GO CATS! GO COACH G!

[jkeller]

That the route to a National Championship for Kentucky will not and has not ever been with JUCO's on it's roster. Name me one JUCO that has ever worn a National Championship ring at Kentucky. Nope can't do it so to put JUCO's on the roster for a one or two year fix isn't the answer. The problem with the previous regime is that they always seemed in the patching it routine instead of the fixing it routine. The only way to build the program and roster back up is with quality high school players not JUCO's. I have never been and will never be a fan of JUCO's in Kentucky uniforms. JUCO's are not the answer......Renardo Sidney's and John Wall's are the answer.

It's too bad Renardo Sidney and John Wall will both be playing in the high school ranks next year and absolutely no help to us at all. Meanwhile you'll be griping about our lack of depth all next year. You want us to kick half the team to the curb, but you don't want to fill any open roster spots with players eligible for next year. How does that make any sense? We might as well not field a team next year, just wait til '09 :icon_rolleyes:

Yeah and before '78 there hadn't been a black player win a national championship at Kentucky, that didn't mean that black players aren't capable of winning championships.

[RP_McMurphy]

Of the Billy G. regime that this was a five year fix at best. I won't complain at all if there is a lack of depth as I would know those scholarships are going for top notch talent to be on campus for the fall of 09. There are right ways to fix and rebuild the program. I believe the right way is thru top notch high school talent not JUCO's. Would I love to be wrong hell yeah but history and my basketball knowledge say otherwise.

[DCWildcat]

RP calls it like he sees as well or better than everyone else on this forum. I disagree a little this time, but not comfortably.

If Vilarino does indeed come to UK, we'll have 0 scholarships for 2009. We keep saying "they'll work themselves out," etc., but that just doesn't reassure me. Players won't go on academic scholarship--they never do. And having only Vilarino for 09 will really set us back.

[DerbyCityGlobetrotter]

Anyone that is worried about the quality of the future recruits that the current staff brings in, IS ABSOLUTELY PARANOID! Period!

Coach Gillespie and his assistants were specifically brought in because of their ability to land good players. He has done it everywhere he has been not just at Texas A&M . How about Luther Head, Deron Williams and that other little guard ILL had a few years back. Guess who recruited them.

If you want to worry about something related to BCG worry about him getting a DUI or an offer to coach the Lakers but don't worry about him bringing in the players.........it is his specialty.

[Dawood Khan]

I have one question.

Why call these kids "Junk?" It's small.

[Dawood Khan]

Of the Billy G. regime that this was a five year fix at best. I won't complain at all if there is a lack of depth as I would know those scholarships are going for top notch talent to be on campus for the fall of 09. There are right ways to fix and rebuild the program. I believe the right way is thru top notch high school talent not JUCO's. Would I love to be wrong hell yeah but history and my basketball knowledge say otherwise.

Well, hell People!

If Coach G goes anywhere, we got our guy. lol

[DCWildcat]

If Coach Gillispie takes 5 or 6 years to build the program back to national prominence, he'll probably be fired. And rightfully so. We aren't in great shape right now but by no means should it take over a generation of players to rebuild this program. Many other coaches in far uglier circumstances have done much better (e.g., Thad Matta at Ohio State with far less talent and probation).

College basketball isn't college football. Three or four recruits can turn an entire program from NIT-bound to championship contender.

[jkeller]

Well, hell People!

If Coach G goes anywhere, we got our guy. lol

I don't know, with that kind of basketball knowledge I say he gets scooped up pretty quickly. I expect T. Boone to be knocking on his door with a giant check any day now....

[FCFS82]

Of the Billy G. regime that this was a five year fix at best. I won't complain at all if there is a lack of depth as I would know those scholarships are going for top notch talent to be on campus for the fall of 09. There are right ways to fix and rebuild the program. I believe the right way is thru top notch high school talent not JUCO's. Would I love to be wrong hell yeah but history and my basketball knowledge say otherwise.

I don't wait five years for anyone.

I had better think that UK has a shot at the Final Four before 2013. Mind you, unlike some wacko standards, I just hope UK is at the level of being in the discussion not a mandate to hanger a banner or else.

I guess I could say I expect an SEC title in five years. I would certainly hope any coach could get that done.

Pitino had the team at 22-6 in 1991, SEC champions in 1992. That was year two and three. And he had to recruit while on probation. I am sure that was an easy pitch.

Then again, I guess it could go for something that he took four lightly regarded recruits and Jamal Mashburn within a whisker of beating defending national champion Duke. Maybe you can have less talented guys running through walls and turning out to be great.

What a concept.

[countrycat]

When BCG was introduced as coach he stated he did not have a full roster. Now did that mean he did not have bodies, no it meant he did not have quality talent. I am not downing anyone on this team, those are just the facts. Now what are you as fans going to do with that knowledge? Now are you all coaches? Because if was a betting man I would bet he knows better how to build a program than me, you or anyone on WCN. If he thinks he can get us back in contention quicker with JUCO players well thats what is going to happen. Now I realise you do not have to like it and you are free to express your opinion, this is a message board. At this time there is one person he has to please and he is not a member of WCN. Also, who knows when he would be fired if we do not get back to the final 4, again it ain't us.

[JWORLD]

So what's your point?

Are you using that argument to show that Gillispie can't recruit? Are you saying that Law wasn't a great college point guard?

I don't really understand the relevance of that comment.



Not at all................

[KYISSUPREME]

Am I incorrect in thinking that BCG didn't recruit Acie Law IV? I thought he was already there when BCG got there. And, relax folks. BCG is getting some players, and not just some crappy leftovers. You must realize where our recruiting was when he arrived. And the class imbalance we have. Both of these situations he had nothing to do with. The fact that we only have ONE scholly for '09 is only one person's fault. And that person is not BCG. Sure, I wish we had all spots covered by 5 star kids for the next 4 years. It doesn't work like that, especially where our recruiting had been the last 3 years. As for JUCO's, if you they can come and give you 2 great years, what's the problem? NONE of these kids are guaranteed to be at your school, high schoolers or JUCO's, for anything longer than a season. If a player is any good, chances are he will look at the NBA. Sometimes they look at the NBA even if they aren't very good. See: Dereck Caracter, Maurice Speights, etc.

[Dawood Khan]

[quote=Blue_N_White;443122]It's been reported that Coach Gillispie felt a little bad leaving the university (Texas A&M)..and didn't want to "rub salt in the wound" when he left by asking Jordan to come with him (to UK). He would have had to ask the university to release the kid from his NLOI...and he didn't want to do that, after leaving the school in a position to have to find a head coach late in the school year!



Must correct you on this one.

I've said on numerous, numerous occasions to anyone who would listen...that I really liked Tubby Smith - the man. Thought he would have made a great Athletic Director (i.e. - like C.M Newton was). Didn't like Tubby Smith - the coach, very much. Questioned many of his decisions on a regular basis. And hated Tubby Smith - the recruiter. Hated his "avoid early NBA draft entrants and focus on 4 year players and projects" approach to college basketball.

Now...having said that....Pitino, in his 8 years at UK, successfully recruited and developed many more players that wound up playing in the NBA than Tubby did in 10 years.

Here are some names of players that Pitino (in 8 years) was responsible for: Jamal Mashburn, Antoine Walker, Tony Delk, Ron Mercer, Derek Anderson, Walter McCarty, Mark Pope, Scott Padget, Nazr Mohammed, Jamaal Magloire (10 in 8 years)

While Tubby recruited and "developed" (in 10 years): Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Kelenna Azubuike, Chuck Hayes, Randolph Morris, Rajon Rondo. (6 in 10 years)





You forgot that Tubby coached Fitch(Heat and Hawks),Daniels(Kings),and soon to be Crawford and possibly Bradley.That equals 10 by my count.

Fitch spent about 15 seconds in the NBA. Daniels spent about 30 seconds in the NBA.

Hayes and Azibuike had to go to the NBDL first.

Prince and Rondo were underdrafted. As was Bogans who went in the 2nd Round.

Are you seriously comparing that to the 9 to 10 Lottery and First Rounders that went to the NBA under Pitino. Laughable at best.

Crawford and Bradley weren't being looked at by the NBA until the latter part of this year. Not even close.

What a joke.

[boomdaddy]

Pretty simplistic view of things, don't you think?

We do have recruits that Gillispie was in on and brought with him because of Texas ties. We obviously have Patterson. (Funny how people often forget him...) And we've got GJ and KC the next two years.

But there aren't a lot of kids that are going to just up and follow Gillispie to Kentucky. He's going to have to cut some inroads at UK, and those inroads are clogged up because the previous staff was having such a difficult time landing players.

Folks, the guy's been here for 12 months. He's landed one of the best players in the country in Patterson. He's landed a top 20 player in Liggins. He's landed a potential top 10 player in KC Ross-Miller. He's landed Kentucky's Mr. Basketball. And he's now after two (count 'em) top flight JUCO kids and a beast of a foreign player.

My Lord, what more do you all want the man to do?


The doubters will be there, until they see the kind of athletic, tough, and dominant team that is put out on the floor, next season. This really shouldn't be a time for hand ringing. We fans should be like kids in November, waiting and wondering about what neat gifts will be placed under the UK tree.

[poodoo]

We fans should be like kids in November, waiting and wondering about what neat gifts will be placed under the UK tree.

I vote for that, boomdaddy!!! :) In fact, that's exactly where I am on this one (and my hubby even says that I'm still just a "little girl" :icon_mrgreen:), just a "little kid" anxiously awaiting some "neat gifts." :big_grin: Too, personally, I imagine I'll be happy with my "gifts," even if they aren't the VERY best imaginable, just as I am on real Christmas mornings.

[JWORLD]

[quote=JWORLD;443256]

Fitch spent about 15 seconds in the NBA. Daniels spent about 30 seconds in the NBA.

Hayes and Azibuike had to go to the NBDL first.

Prince and Rondo were underdrafted. As was Bogans who went in the 2nd Round.

Are you seriously comparing that to the 9 to 10 Lottery and First Rounders that went to the NBA under Pitino. Laughable at best.

Crawford and Bradley weren't being looked at by the NBA until the latter part of this year. Not even close.

What a joke.


You see, now i have you where i wanted you which brings me to this point that i brought up the otherday.......

If you have a 5 star McDonald's All American and his two choices are Louisville and Kentucky with each coach getting the opportunity to make one pass, which school will the recruit choose?

I think you know the answer and it damn sure sucks. I absolutely can't stand it:tongue3::tongue3::tongue3:

[Dawood Khan]

[quote=Legionaire;443584]


You see, now i have you where i wanted you which brings me to this point that i brought up the otherday.......

If you have a 5 star McDonald's All American and his two choices are Louisville and Kentucky with each coach getting the opportunity to make one pass, which school will the recruit choose?

I think you know the answer and it damn sure sucks. I absolutely can't stand it:tongue3::tongue3::tongue3:

I think Pitino is a great recruiter. I think Billy G will start to give him a run for his money soon, though.

Right now, if it comes down to UL and UK. Pitino gets an edge. Two stints in the NBA. Several guys to the NBA. One guy on his bench that he put in the NBA (McCarty). 5 Final Fours and 1 NC.

It's hard to beat that. Difficult. But not impossible.

Most people see Gillispie as an up and coming coaching phenom. People are going to want to be a part of that. Plus he loves his job and he love UK. Recruits will sense that vibe and want to be a part of that as well. It's incredible to be around people who love what they do. It lifts everyone around them up about ten feet in the air (if you've never experienced this).

UK fans probably should try to be more positive at this point in the Gillispie tenure. At least let him get his team in place and see what he can do before you start to tear him apart.

Pitino may have the edge now. This will not always be the case.

Gillispie will put a couple of guys in the NBA here soon. Patterson will probably be a lottery pick after his Junior year if not next year. That will start the process. If Ramel and Joe do well in the Draft, Coach G will get a lot of the credit because most people didn't think they would get a sniff. Acie Law always speaks well of Coach G.

That NBA list will grow. And Coach G seems to develop a bond with players that I didn't see with Smith. The same kind of bond that Pitino seems to develop with players.

Funny how that works. Pitino and Gillispie are supposed to be stern taskmasters who care more about the results than the players. Smith was supposed to be the "father figure." Yet, Pitino's players and former coaches hang around like extended family. I've not seen that with Smith. Hopefully, Coach G will develop those kinds of relationships as well. Those relationships aid recruiting as well.

[Blue_N_White]

I think Pitino is a great recruiter. I think Billy G will start to give him a run for his money soon, though.

Right now, if it comes down to UL and UK. Pitino gets an edge. Two stints in the NBA. Several guys to the NBA. One guy on his bench that he put in the NBA (McCarty). 5 Final Fours and 1 NC.

It's hard to beat that. Difficult. But not impossible.

Most people see Gillispie as an up and coming coaching phenom. People are going to want to be a part of that. Plus he loves his job and he love UK. Recruits will sense that vibe and want to be a part of that as well. It's incredible to be around people who love what they do. It lifts everyone around them up about ten feet in the air (if you've never experienced this).

UK fans probably should try to be more positive at this point in the Gillispie tenure. At least let him get his team in place and see what he can do before you start to tear him apart.

Pitino may have the edge now. This will not always be the case.

Gillispie will put a couple of guys in the NBA here soon. Patterson will probably be a lottery pick after his Junior year if not next year. That will start the process. If Ramel and Joe do well in the Draft, Coach G will get a lot of the credit because most people didn't think they would get a sniff. Acie Law always speaks well of Coach G.

That NBA list will grow. And Coach G seems to develop a bond with players that I didn't see with Smith. The same kind of bond that Pitino seems to develop with players.

Funny how that works. Pitino and Gillispie are supposed to be stern taskmasters who care more about the results than the players. Smith was supposed to be the "father figure." Yet, Pitino's players and former coaches hang around like extended family. I've not seen that with Smith. Hopefully, Coach G will develop those kinds of relationships as well. Those relationships aid recruiting as well.

Great post, Legionaire. :thumbup:

I'll be honest here: I am a huge fan of Coach Rick Pitino. I know, I know...that's not always the most popular stance to take these days....especially among some Kentucky fans. I've argued with some of my best friends until I'm blue in the face (to match the heart :big_grin:)...and I've came a lot closer to changing their minds on that than they ever will mine.

Personally, I like Rick Pitino - the man. I respect the Hell out of the job he did at Kentucky. He took a job that a lot of other coaches probably would have passed on at the time (Probation/era of scandal, embarrassment and shame) and took a program that was down in the dumps to the promised land. When he left Kentucky, it was an elite program and in very, very good shape. You listed his resume of accomplishments quite nicely.

Having said that...I like Coach Gillispie as well. I like what Gillispie is doing, and think the verdict isn't anywhere close to being back yet on him. I give him high marks for what he has done THUS FAR! I really, truly believe he is taking the program in the right direction...and within a few years, we should be back close to being considered not just traditionally an elite program, but by then a MODERN DAY elite program as well.

I'd just like to add, that Gillispie is the man responsible for Deron Williams, the terrific Utah Jazz point guard, signing with Illinois. Not many people think to give him that credit, since he wasn't the head coach, but was the chief recruiter and responsible for Williams signing with Illinois. Also, DeAndre Jordan, last year's #2 Center prospect in America by most scouting/ranking services....signed with Texas A&M last year BEFORE Coach Gillispie took the Kentucky coaching job. So Gillispie is also responsible for the Aggies landing Jordan.

Yes, Tubby Smith won a title his first year...but that was with Coach Pitino's players and a successful system already in place. Within a few years, though, we would get a good look at what a Tubby team would look like. And the pendulum swung downward as a result. So now, within a couple of years, we'll see what a Billy Gillispie team will look like, and I think that the pendulum is already swinging back upwards now as a result.....

EDIT: P.S. - There is a problem with the boards right now correctly quoting and identifying the person who a post should be addressed to. Some of the replies "APPEAR" to be addressing the wrong person, and the wrong quote. Anyway, just a littlle heads up....

[poodoo]

When he left Kentucky, it was an elite program and in very, very good shape. QUOTE by Blue_N_White
**********

There is no doubt about so many positives that were mentioned in your post. I agree with them. Too, the recruiting Coach Pitino did in the early to mid-nineties was phenomenal. That '96 championship team had eight first-round picks, if I'm not mistaken. I've never seen that much talent on a team, and I've never had that much fun watching a team.

Along with many others, though I respectfully disagree that Coach Pitino left Kentucky in "very, very good shape." Once Pitino began flirting with the NBA, his ability to garner in those top recruits waned. Those years we had all those guys in for Midnight Madness, but we would lose virtually all of them, usually to Duke. A good number of UK fans and some in the media were complaining about that and thus ready to see Pitino leave. I personally was not ready for him to leave. I continued to support him, watching the Celtics games and pulling for his team to win. Part of that was definitely because he was the coach.

Anyway, the recruiting definitely suffered. Yes, the team had finished as the runner-ups in '97, BUT the talent level in the lower classes did not remotely match what he had recruited earlier. I've listened to the discussions about why the coach's son joined the team. UK did not have a backup true point guard. Although a lot of fans have hated Saul, he was a backup at that position. Yes, we probably lost some recruits because of that, but that's another debate. I just know that plenty of UK fans did NOT feel the program was in that good of shape because of the late recruiting misses by Pitino, and I'm merely sharing the fact that a differing point of view exists on that point. I think the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle, and it seems to lie there on Pitino's recruiting, which was outstanding before the NBA flirtations.

What matters, though, is Coach Gillispie's recruiting. Again, I love how he works at it, and I think most who work so hard are rewarded. :) Gillispie does not have the appealing style of play Pitino had, though. At least he's not had it yet in his career. That doesn't bother me, though. I think he will do FINE, and it well may "take off" with time and success, as Legionaire mentioned. Anyway, I'm most happy with him, period. We'll see. Here's hoping things go really well these next couple of weeks. :)

P.S. One statement I did not address because it involves Coach Smith. I will merely say that statement makes his former players absolutely "furious," according to those players' themselves. Also, I LOVE your moniker. :) GO CATS! GO COACH G!

[RP_McMurphy]

Most do not include any JUCO's and only Indiana of 87 can point to JUCO's that were a major part of their Championship squads. Point blank you don't build NCAA championship teams with JUCO's and Kentucky should be building towards a Championship squad.

[RCS]

You certainly can't build strictly with JUCO kids but you can use them. There are talented kids in the JUCO ranks and right now we need talent. My biggest concern is that is swells an already huge JR class. Harrelson doesn't but the others do. It is going to be boom or bust in 2010 at this rate since it is looking like we may sign 7 or 8 kids that year. At least we already have 2 commits for that year.

[MercerTitans]

Most do not include any JUCO's and only Indiana of 87 can point to JUCO's that were a major part of their Championship squads. Point blank you don't build NCAA championship teams with JUCO's and Kentucky should be building towards a Championship squad.


I realize that winning championships through JUCO players is the exception and not the rule but didn't the '90 Vegas team do the same thing as Indiana in '87? I think Larry Johnson and Stacey Augmon were both former JUCO players.

[matt colvin]

No offense, but look at the players, not their status as "JUCO". I look at it as a plus due to extra experience at a higher level. They're hopefully more mature, as well.

Not every player will fulfill their potential, but not every player will be a bust. All Coach can due is evaluate their potential to fit in with this team, thus utilizing their talents to their full extent.

[Ukosumu]

Most do not include any JUCO's and only Indiana of 87 can point to JUCO's that were a major part of their Championship squads. Point blank you don't build NCAA championship teams with JUCO's and Kentucky should be building towards a Championship squad.
Not picking on RP but using his quote. Most UK fans want us back as a "modern day" elite program but fail to realize that just because you want it doesn't mean that it will happen. The program has slipped and 5 star recruits are not going to come here because of what we accomplished 20 years and two coaches ago. If it takes a heavier lean on talented JUCO players to return to dominance then so be it. IMO. Once UK is mentioned in the top 5 year in and year out, we will not have to look at the JUCO ranks except in certain circumstances.

[crazzedcats22]

I realize that winning championships through JUCO players is the exception and not the rule but didn't the '90 Vegas team do the same thing as Indiana in '87? I think Larry Johnson and Stacey Augmon were both former JUCO players.

No, Augmon was a 4 year player at UNLV.

Larry Johnson went to Odessa College and then transfered to UNLV after one year

[LiveBlue]

[quote=Legionaire;443584]


You see, now i have you where i wanted you which brings me to this point that i brought up the otherday.......

If you have a 5 star McDonald's All American and his two choices are Louisville and Kentucky with each coach getting the opportunity to make one pass, which school will the recruit choose?

I think you know the answer and it damn sure sucks. I absolutely can't stand it:tongue3::tongue3::tongue3:

I don't know...ask Darius Miller.

[teamchemistry09]

[quote=Legionaire;443584]


You see, now i have you where i wanted you which brings me to this point that i brought up the otherday.......

If you have a 5 star McDonald's All American and his two choices are Louisville and Kentucky with each coach getting the opportunity to make one pass, which school will the recruit choose?

I think you know the answer and it damn sure sucks. I absolutely can't stand it:tongue3::tongue3::tongue3:

Or Patterson. Or Rondo. When was the last time a 5 star McDonalds AA had UK and uofl high on their list and picked uofl?

[bigblue23]

[quote=JWORLD;443711]

Or Patterson. Or Rondo. When was the last time a 5 star McDonalds AA had UK and uofl high on their list and picked uofl?

Rondo wanted to go to UofL, but Pitino wanted Telfair over him and that's the only reason we got Rondo.

[KYISSUPREME]

Why is JUCO considered by some to be the worst four-letter word out there? With the holes this roster has, if we can get a skilled guy that fits a need, you better take him. Waiting around for the cream of the high school crop to fall in your lap isn't going to work this late in the game. That's what got us in this mess in the first place. BCG was already behind for this year's class when he hired here. I think he is just trying to get some players for some spots where he needs players. I think 5 years down the line you won't see us look at JUCO's very often. You've got to walk before you can run. This is a rebuilding effort, and don't think it's not. We don't have the luxury of reloading at this point. And think about some of the other programs we have been competeing with for some of these JUCO's. Kansas, UConn, Indiana, etc. This year's JUCO class has some good kids in it. Galloway and Flemings alone have had several NBA scouts checking them out. And a guy like Harrelson has 3 years left. Not your typical JUCO kid, and will see about as much playing time at the D1 level as Ramon Harris.

[JWORLD]

[quote=JWORLD;443711]

Or Patterson. Or Rondo. When was the last time a 5 star McDonalds AA had UK and uofl high on their list and picked uofl?


Had Pitino not have been after Telfair, then Louisville was Rondo's first choice. I know that to be a fact. My gut feeling with Patterson is that he would have ended up at Uk with Smith or Gillispie.

[countrycat]

[quote=teamchemistry07;444014]


Had Pitino not have been after Telfair, then Louisville was Rondo's first choice. I know that to be a fact. My gut feeling with Patterson is that he would have ended up at Uk with Smith or Gillispie.
There is no way you can prove that statement so why assume that. I disagree because he had plenty of time to commit while Smith was here and did not. "Gut feeling tells me that if Tubby had stayed Mr. Patterson would be at UF at this time but I can not prove that either.

[teamchemistry09]

[quote=teamchemistry07;444014]


Had Pitino not have been after Telfair, then Louisville was Rondo's first choice. I know that to be a fact. My gut feeling with Patterson is that he would have ended up at Uk with Smith or Gillispie.

But where did Rondo end up? And as far as Patterson, yes, I also think he was UK bound no matter who the coach was.

[teamchemistry09]

[quote=JWORLD;444036]
There is no way you can prove that statement so why assume that. I disagree because he had plenty of time to commit while Smith was here and did not. "Gut feeling tells me that if Tubby had stayed Mr. Patterson would be at UF at this time but I can not prove that either.

Why tell him he has to prove his opinion? He said it is his gut feeling. He never said it was a fact. I feel the same way and have stated that on a number of acounts on here. I think Patterson was UK bound no matter who the coach was. Yes he did have plenty of time to commit while Tubby was here, but if it was Billy G, why didnt he commit to Texas A&M? They werent even on his list. So that proves it isnt the coach it is the school.

[dstnshpp]

Im not buying into that, that's a bunch of bulllll if you know what i mean. When you look at our tradition, our facilities, and the exposure UK gets,UK should be able to get right back into the mix of things immediately......


You have to remember that when 16,17,18 year old kids (KIDS!!) see the same thing from a program for years and years, that it is hard to change their perception. UK basketball is not seen as an elite program right now in most of the country. It may take a year or so to build that perception back up.

Also, most of the kids that are getting ready to go to college have heard from the same coaches since they started high school. Coach Gillispie is getting into the game a little late with a lot of these recruits, and what he has done in his short time should be commended. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was UK basketball. Take a break and let the coach do his job.

[Blue_N_White]

Why tell him he has to prove his opinion? He said it is his gut feeling. He never said it was a fact. I feel the same way and have stated that on a number of acounts on here. I think Patterson was UK bound no matter who the coach was. Yes he (Patterson) did have plenty of time to commit while Tubby was here, but if it was Billy G, why didnt he commit to Texas A&M? They werent even on his list. So that proves it isnt the coach it is the school.

I beg to differ. That's not necessarily true.

Kids are released from their NLOI all the time because the coach leaves or is fired. I was just reading about Terrell Holloway, who was granted permission to back out from attending Indiana because Sampson was let go (basically). Same with a kid that had agreed to attend Western Kentucky University. Once Darrin Horn left, the kid was allowed to back out of his NLOI and he did.

So for all we know....a big part of the reason Patterson came to UK *WAS" Gillispie's arrival. Maybe Texas A&M wasn't on his radar for geographical reasons. But perhaps he liked UK, but wasn't sold on Tubby.

Of course, this is all speculation....but to suggest that the coach doesn't have anything to do with where a kid goes to school is wrong, IMHO....

[Catligula]

At the time there was plenty of speculation about Tubby's future. To say Patterson would've gone ahead and committed to Tubby already if he wanted to play for him is a disingenuous statement.

[countrycat]

[quote=countrycat;444054]

Why tell him he has to prove his opinion? He said it is his gut feeling. He never said it was a fact. I feel the same way and have stated that on a number of acounts on here. I think Patterson was UK bound no matter who the coach was. Yes he did have plenty of time to commit while Tubby was here, but if it was Billy G, why didnt he commit to Texas A&M? They werent even on his list. So that proves it isnt the coach it is the school.
FWIW A&M was not recruiting Mr. Patterson as far as i know or he may have commited to BCG, they had a commitment froma top recruit. Maybe Patterson was not on THERE list. You recruit for the needs of you team at the time you are there. When coach Billy met with Patterson in his home, he was pretty well sold. Also IMO it was a good thing Tubby left him with 2 visits left with Mr. Patterson. Listen my point is we do not know but when he did not commit that was the final nail. So I disagree it was not the coach in this instance.

[teamchemistry09]

I beg to differ. That's not necessarily true.

Kids are released from their NLOI all the time because the coach leaves or is fired. I was just reading about Terrell Holloway, who was granted permission to back out from attending Indiana because Sampson was let go (basically). Same with a kid that had agreed to attend Western Kentucky University. Once Darrin Horn left, the kid was allowed to back out of his NLOI and he did.

So for all we know....a big part of the reason Patterson came to UK *WAS" Gillispie's arrival. Maybe Texas A&M wasn't on his radar for geographical reasons. But perhaps he liked UK, but wasn't sold on Tubby.

Of course, this is all speculation....but to suggest that the coach doesn't have anything to do with where a kid goes to school is wrong, IMHO....


Im not saying for every kid, just for Patterson. I know players back out when coaches leave. Alex Legion is a good example as well as Draymond Green and even Beasley tried to. But for Patterson, I think Kentucky was more than Gillispie in his decision. And youll never convince me that Gillispie didnt contact Patterson while he was at A&M. Youll never convince me that he didnt want Patterson or that there wasnt room for him. Look at our roster now. We are filled with guys who can play the 2 and 3 spots. And look who he is still recruiting. Wing forwards. Not saying its a bad thing, but he is. But all Im saying is that if Billy G was the reason Patterson came here, so much for the saying, "We are Kentucky" because obviously being Kentucky means nothing to recruits

[JWORLD]

[quote=JWORLD;444036]

But where did Rondo end up? And as far as Patterson, yes, I also think he was UK bound no matter who the coach was.


I'll tell you what, why don't i give you Rondo's telephone number and you can ask him for yourself.............Rondo was not going to play second fiddle to a damn Telfair or any other point guard.You ever heard of the Bibby family, Mike Bibby......Rondo knew he could play with anyone ........

Get your facts straight especially when it comes to Rondo..........

[JWORLD]

At the time there was plenty of speculation about Tubby's future. To say Patterson would've gone ahead and committed to Tubby already if he wanted to play for him is a disingenuous statement.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Exactly...................

[wildcat74]

.I rarely get into debates about Tubby, becuase i am for one glad he's gone(great person,wonderful coach),but he has put more recruits in the NBA than Pitino or Gillispie.


You lost all credibility with this. My take is the players that played under tubby and are in the NBA got there through HARD WORK. Not a slap at tubby by any means, but a comliment to the work ethic of bogans, prince, buike, chuck, et al. None had an easy route to where they are. They worked through D-leagues and 10-day contracts, and prince didn't play until the playoffs his first year when he absolutely came alive. Your sentiment takes away from what the players have accomplished and makes it look like tubby actually developed them into lottery picks.

[bigblue23]

[quote=JWORLD;444036]

But where did Rondo end up? And as far as Patterson, yes, I also think he was UK bound no matter who the coach was.

Dude, what part of Rondo was going to UofL until Pitino passed on him for Telfair do you not understand? We only got him because they thought they were going to get someone better. I guess you needed a translation.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Last time I checked Patterson is on OUR roster............Tubby found him and Gillespie finished it.............he is a great player..can't wait until next season to see him in action:thumbup::big_grin:

[teamchemistry09]

[quote=teamchemistry07;444061]


I'll tell you what, why don't i give you Rondo's telephone number and you can ask him for yourself.............Rondo was not going to play second fiddle to a damn Telfair or any other point guard.You ever heard of the Bibby family, Mike Bibby......Rondo knew he could play with anyone ........

Get your facts straight especially when it comes to Rondo..........

I know Rondo wanted to go to uofl because he came out and said it. And I, who used to play with Rondo, know that for a fact. But my point is, where did he play college ball?

[teamchemistry09]

[quote=teamchemistry07;444061]

Dude, what part of Rondo was going to UofL until Pitino passed on him for Telfair do you not understand? We only got him because they thought they were going to get someone better. I guess you needed a translation.

I know Pitino passed on him for Rondo. But what part of my question dont you understand? Where did Rondo play college? Do you know? I know Rondo said he wanted to play at UofL. I heard him say it. And he told me a number of times. But, the question I asked. Where did Rondo play college? Do you need a translation? Ill give ya one.

I asked because someone said that if a 5-star recruit was down to UK and UofL he would go to uofl. Well, Rondo, who WANTED to go to uofl but DIDNT, went to UK and played. A 5-star recruit, McDonalds All-American, went to UK over uofl. Do you understand that he played at UK, (University of Kentucky, in Lexington, the colors are blue and white, mascot is the Wildcat) and not at uofl? I never said he didnt want to go to uofl. I know Pitino passed on him for a shot at telfair. Im not a moron, like some other fans on this board who have a hard time answering a simple question about where a kid played college

[JWORLD]

You lost all credibility with this. My take is the players that played under tubby and are in the NBA got there through HARD WORK. Not a slap at tubby by any means, but a comliment to the work ethic of bogans, prince, buike, chuck, et al. None had an easy route to where they are. They worked through D-leagues and 10-day contracts, and prince didn't play until the playoffs his first year when he absolutely came alive. Your sentiment takes away from what the players have accomplished and makes it look like tubby actually developed them into lottery picks.


Anyone will tell you that Tubby is a great half court defensive coach. Yes these players did work there tales off but in the NBA, they can all score. Believe it or not, you get to stay in the NBA by playing defense if your not one of the bona fide superstars. Alot of the NBA players could average 20 plus a night if given the green light.........

[JWORLD]

[quote=bigblue23;444094]

I know Pitino passed on him for Rondo. But what part of my question dont you understand? Where did Rondo play college? Do you know? I know Rondo said he wanted to play at UofL. I heard him say it. And he told me a number of times. But, the question I asked. Where did Rondo play college? Do you need a translation? Ill give ya one.

I asked because someone said that if a 5-star recruit was down to UK and UofL he would go to uofl. Well, Rondo, who WANTED to go to uofl but DIDNT, went to UK and played. A 5-star recruit, McDonalds All-American, went to UK over uofl. Do you understand that he played at UK, (University of Kentucky, in Lexington, the colors are blue and white, mascot is the Wildcat) and not at uofl? I never said he didnt want to go to uofl. I know Pitino passed on him for a shot at telfair. Im not a moron, like some other fans on this board who have a hard time answering a simple question about where a kid played college


He played at Kentucky but had Pitino had told him that Telfair was not coming, he would have ended up at Louisville............That's the bottomline whether you like it or not.......

[JWORLD]

Last time I checked Patterson is on OUR roster............Tubby found him and Gillespie finished it.............he is a great player..can't wait until next season to see him in action:thumbup::big_grin:


And he's a great kid, good student, respectful to others.............

Forget about basketball, Patterson is the total package on and off the court..............

[poodoo]

Last time I checked Patterson is on OUR roster............Tubby found him and Gillespie finished it.............he is a great player..can't wait until next season to see him in action:thumbup::big_grin:

:thumbup::thumbup:, TrueblueCATfan. I had not intended to post on this thread, for I so tire of the Tubby references and Tubby debates, especially all the arguing. By the way, neither of those coaches who helped to recruit Patterson is perfect. No coach is perfect, just as none of us are perfect.

Yet, your post IS perfect, so I'm responding. :) You stated FACTS. Plus, most of all, Patterson is on OUR roster. Patrick Patterson is a fine player and also a fine person, as teamchemistry07 points out. May OUR coach land some more like Patterson. :)

[teamchemistry09]

[quote=teamchemistry07;444114]


He played at Kentucky but had Pitino had told him that Telfair was not coming, he would have ended up at Louisville............That's the bottomline whether you like it or not.......

I know that. I know Rondo said he wanted to go to uofl. It doesnt matter whether anyone likes it or not it only matters that he played at UK, not uofl. Whether he wanted to or not, he played for UK

[Catligula]

Rondo wanted to stay close to home and go where he could play right away. U of L was closer, but UK had minutes to give. That's it really.

Generally, players will go where they feel (genuinely) wanted. Which is good for us, because Gillispie wants everyone at UK.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Rondo was 2-0 agianst UL while he was at UK............had he gone to UL he would have been 0-2........:icon_mrgreen::eek: