Get Real

[hardwood2]

This recruiting talk of five or six players is a little out of control. If Flemings signs, he will take the fourth and final scholarship UK has to offer. If you look at the roster for '07-'08, you'll see the players listed with a scholarship. Coury is listed as a scholarship player and from what I gather he never was on scholarship. This still only leaves four. Worse than that, the only senior-to-be listed is Carter and that scholarship is filled. Williams and Jasper may leave and Patterson may go pro, so that would leave three more for '09. I think if Flemings signs he will be the last player UK looks for for the '08-'09 season and he should be. Even UK must play within the numbers and theres not enough talent left to put together an instant national championship team for '09.

[RaleighCat]

In BCG's last season at TX A&M there were 19 players on the official roster.

I'm going to trust our coach to figure this out. It's premature to definitely say how many players we're going to sign and how we're going to fit them in. But I'm confident we have a staff that will play through the whistle when it comes to recruiting.

[Will Lavender]

Scholarship talk is overrated. Schollies are moved around by teams all the time.

Plus, Gillispie knows what's going on behind the scenes. Many think Williams is gone, many think Jasper is gone, some think Carter is gone. I'd say Gillispie knows for certain.

There's no way he's after this many players to give one scholarship. The man has offered rides to players on the spot! How could that be? He offered Flemings, Harrelson, Kecman, Majok. We know that for a fact. I highly doubt he's worried about scholarship limits, nor is he just sitting back and waiting on one guy to sign so he can quit.

[hardwood2]

How do we know that for a fact? And scholarship talk is not overrated. Go look at that A&M roster with 19 players and you will find only 10 or 11 with the credentials of the players that UK is supposedly yet after for 2008-09. I suppose they should make room for Majok or McCoy if they want to wear blue, which appears very unlikely for Majok. Beyond that, save some for later because the numbers just aren't there. I don't think many major players will walk-on at Kentucky when they can have a scholarship somewhere else.

By the way, this is in no way negative talk. I believe UK will be a top 10 team next year.

[crazzedcats22]

Why people worry about scholarships really amazes me. Do you really think Billy G would recruit, offer, and let players commit and then worry about having a scholarship for them? There is no reason to worry about the scholarship situation....Billy G and UK will make it work.

[Littlemeyer]

Crawford and Bradley gone. 2
Legion gone. 3
One carried over from the previous season. 4
Williams looking at transfer. 5
Jasper more than likely gone. 6

So there's 6 very likely openings. Galloway, Miller, Liggins already committed. Can get three more.

Flemings. McCoy. Sutton. Maybe?

(This is top-of-head info. Could be some mistakes. Recruiting gurus, feel free to correct...)

[Littlemeyer]

Crawford and Bradley gone. 2
Legion gone. 3
One carried over from the previous season. 4
Williams looking at transfer. 5
Jasper more than likely gone. 6

So there's 6 very likely openings. Galloway, Miller, Liggins already committed. Can get three more.

Flemings. McCoy. Sutton. Maybe?

(This is top-of-head info. Could be some mistakes. Recruiting gurus, feel free to correct...)

Now where it really gets interesting is the following year. Assuming Carter gets his medical redshirt (which is probably, my guess, 50/50 as to whether it'll even be pursued), we could get in a bind for that class. But as others have said, these things have a way of working themselves out.

[UKBOO]

Crawford and Bradley gone. 2
Legion gone. 3
One carried over from the previous season. 4
Williams looking at transfer. 5
Jasper more than likely gone. 6

So there's 6 very likely openings. Galloway, Miller, Liggins already committed. Can get three more.

Flemings. McCoy. Sutton. Maybe?

(This is top-of-head info. Could be some mistakes. Recruiting gurus, feel free to correct...)

I think this is exactly the count situation. Also, reading between the lines, I do not think Coach would let Jasper go (and not redshirt him) if he didn't think he would fill all of them.

[hardwood2]

Your math is correct and I would say your assumptions as well. However, Carter will be the only senior. While big, he only takes one scholarship. What about '09? BCG and UK may "make it work" but they still have to play by NCAA rules, hopefully. All I know is if he can bring the speculated quantity and quality of recruits to UK, they shoud change the name of the arena. I would like to see him pull it off, but still the numbers don't lie.

[Littlemeyer]

Your math is correct and I would say your assumptions as well. However, Carter will be the only senior. While big, he only takes one scholarship. What about '09? BCG and UK may "make it work" but they still have to play by NCAA rules, hopefully. All I know is if he can bring the speculated quantity and quality of recruits to UK, they shoud change the name of the arena. I would like to see him pull it off, but still the numbers don't lie.

As we've seen this year, there could be some unfortunate transfers.

More positively, there is always the academic scholarship option. I've yet to see that pulled off anywhere, but it can be done. I think we've got some players that could qualify for that as well.

I share your concerns for the future classes, though. We've got a bit of an unbalanced situation right now. Need to "borrow" from the current crop of sophomores and spread them to some newcomers, in whatever way possible. (Otherwise, Senior Night in 2010 would be Senior Week instead.)

[Will Lavender]

How do we know that for a fact?

Because the players themselves and their coaches have said so.

Again. No way we sign just one. Do you think Gillispie's just chasing all these kids around to sign one guy? Really? I'm saying two at the very least, more likely three, and possibly even four.

Gillispie sees things like I do. We need depth next year, especially on the inside. And if Jasper leaves, we may need depth at his position as well.

[hardwood2]

I'm glad to see Gillispie has the equivalent to your insight. I'm certainly no NCAA rules expert but I don't think a player recruited on an athletic scholarship can switch to academic unless no longer playing. The NCAA is like the tax code in that respect. They try to close loopholes. I don't think BCG is chasing all these players just to offer one scholarship and, in fact, it looks as though he is about to land the second. But, I think he knows what he can and cannot get in the way of numbers and some of his offers are contingent on what another player may do. I think if Flemings signs, he will probably be the last for '08; however, I do believe BCG would make room for McCoy. Honestly, I think Majok is a pipe dream.

[leroybyrd]

Why people worry about scholarships really amazes me. Do you really think Billy G would recruit, offer, and let players commit and then worry about having a scholarship for them? There is no reason to worry about the scholarship situation....Billy G and UK will make it work.

Clearly Billy is not worried about the schollie count. In addition to the offers for '08, we have 7 offers on the table for '09 including one commitment from Villarino.

[Will Lavender]

I'm glad to see Gillispie has the equivalent to your insight.

What are you talking about? It's easy to assume what Gillispie is doing. Has nothing to do with "insight." Look at what's going on. Everything Gillispie has done suggests that he's after a handful of players.

Not sure what's so difficult to understand about that.

If he signs one, that means we've been jilted and not the other way around. Talk about loopholes and tax codes or whatever all you want, but you're missing the point. There are all kinds of (legal) ways to bypass scholarships. Tubby did it multiple times in the past. Remember?

But I don't think it'll come to that. This team is going to lose a couple of players at least.

And I agree that Majok is a pipe dream. Nobody that I've seen has said otherwise.

[Los Gatos]

I'm glad to see Gillispie has the equivalent to your insight. I'm certainly no NCAA rules expert but I don't think a player recruited on an athletic scholarship can switch to academic unless no longer playing.

(snip, snip)



Actually the NCAA rules do allow a player on athletic scholarship to go on academic scholarship and still play. However, the rules are very specific. He would have to compete for the scholarship just like any other student. No preference for being an athlete.

Although it's mentioned in post all the time, I'm not aware that it's ever been done, anywhere. Certainly not at UK.

As I said in a previous post, if I had a dollar for ever post that speculates someone will go on academic scholarship and had to pay ten dollars for everyone who actually did, I'd be rich.

[Will Lavender]

Clearly Billy is not worried about the schollie count.

At least I thought it was pretty clear.

[UKBOO]

Actually the NCAA rules do allow a player on athletic scholarship to go on academic scholarship and still play. However, the rules are very specific. He would have to compete for the scholarship just like any other student. No preference for being an athlete.

Although it's mentioned in post all the time, I'm not aware that it's ever been done, anywhere. Certainly not at UK.

As I said in a previous post, if I had a dollar for ever post that speculates someone will go on academic scholarship and had to pay ten dollars for everyone who actually did, I'd be rich.

Estil to hardship is as close as I can remember.

[Will Lavender]

As I said in a previous post, if I had a dollar for ever post that speculates someone will go on academic scholarship and had to pay ten dollars for everyone who actually did, I'd be rich.

Because we're in such an unusual situation. We need depth badly, especially inside. These are precarious times, and so you get these odd situations that come up regarding scholarships. I can't remember a time when UK was so thin in the frontcourt post-probation.

But again, I doubt it's going to come to this. Watch what happens when the semester ends. Scholarships are going to be freed up, IMO, and those are the holes that Gillispie is looking to plug.

[Will Lavender]

Estil to hardship is as close as I can remember.

Sparks walked on during his redshirt year to free a scholarship.

[hardwood2]

He would be stupid not to concern himself with the scholarship count. Clearly he is not stupid, but again, the numbers don't lie. You can't attract the top players as walk-ons. Possibly some that are coming in may qualify for academic scholarship but I don't think they can be recruited for athletic scholarship. Maybe we have one who does not qualify and maybe one who will go pro; yet another could leave. As we know, Billy knows what is going on behind the scenes.

[Will Lavender]

He would be stupid not to concern himself with the scholarship count.

Of course he would. No one is saying otherwise.

But you're putting way too much importance on something that can be manipulated within the rules if needs be. You mention tax code above. That's a flawed analogy, really; tax code is strict, whereas NCAA rule has certain loopholes that coaches use all the time. I.e. Morris, Randolph.

You don't go after the number of kids Gillispie has -- and offer everyone except Sutton -- with the idea that you're going to take the first one who signs and then call it quits.

He's either going to work his way around scholarships, or he knows we've got people leaving.

[hardwood2]

Or he's using the shotgun approach which I suspect is true. He didn't quit at one as another appears close to signing. I believe he would make room for a third if it was the right one. But recruiting is almost over for this period.

[UKBOO]

Sparks walked on during his redshirt year to free a scholarship.

I think we are talking of a current player on scholly moving to academic.

[Will Lavender]

I think we are talking of a current player on scholly moving to academic.

Right. But it doesn't matter how it's done as long as it's done.

Not even going to be an issue, IMO.

[jdeasy]

Right. But it doesn't matter how it's done as long as it's done.

Not even going to be an issue, IMO.


A player recruitied as an athletic scholarship cannot be changed to academic in order to circumvent the limits. A player on an athletic scholarship can be moved to an academic after he has been on athletic for 2 years.

[Will Lavender]

A player recruitied as an athletic scholarship cannot be changed to academic in order to circumvent the limits. A player on an athletic scholarship can be moved to an academic after he has been on athletic for 2 years.

I'm not saying break the rules. I'm saying there are hardship cases, walk-on situations, academic situations, redshirts -- a few other kinds of things to help bypass the limit.

But again, it isn't going to come to that. I just don't see a couple of the kids we have now on next year's roster, and then you have D. Jasper.

[UKBOO]

Right. But it doesn't matter how it's done as long as it's done.

Not even going to be an issue, IMO.

I agree. They will have their work cut out for them in filling all the available slots as it is. Which has me scratching my head over not wanting JD to red shirt. They must know something we do not.. :shrug1: ;)

[Littlemeyer]

A player recruitied as an athletic scholarship cannot be changed to academic in order to circumvent the limits. A player on an athletic scholarship can be moved to an academic after he has been on athletic for 2 years.

Are you sure it's 2 years? Not sure why, but I've been thinking that it's just one year. Could easily be wrong. I'll try to find something on the net...

[Los Gatos]

Are you sure it's 2 years? Not sure why, but I've been thinking that it's just one year. Could easily be wrong. I'll try to find something on the net...

No it's just a year. Actually the rule just requires the academic scholarship to be based solely on the players GPA in college. IE not high school.

So you can't give a recruited high school athlete an academic scholarship because you don't a years worth of college grades to base the award on.

[jdeasy]

Are you sure it's 2 years? Not sure why, but I've been thinking that it's just one year. Could easily be wrong. I'll try to find something on the net...


It's one year. Ityped that wrong. Sorry for the mistake.

[crazzedcats22]

Or he's using the shotgun approach which I suspect is true. He didn't quit at one as another appears close to signing. I believe he would make room for a third if it was the right one. But recruiting is almost over for this period.

Sorry to disagree but you are completely wrong on this. No way any coach, let alone Billy G at UK, would throw out scholarship offers to multiple people then when the first one commit tell everyone else they are screwed. It doesn't work like that and I don't think Billy G operates that way

[Will Lavender]

Sorry to disagree but you are completely wrong on this. No way any coach, let alone Billy G at UK, would throw out scholarship offers to multiple people then when the first one commit tell everyone else they are screwed. It doesn't work like that and I don't think Billy G operates that way

It would send a horrible message to these players and their coaches if hardwood2's theory is correct.

But it isn't, IMO. Gillispie is legitimately after these players for a reason, and it isn't just to see who signs up first.

[hardwood2]

I think there's a contingency in some of the offers. Sutton would sign but has to wait and see if someone better signs first. I love UK; graduated from UK, but I would tell them to stuff the scholarship on that note. I think BCG knows the stroy and knows what he can offer and knows what he can accept. I don't think this board has a clue. But if he didn't take the shotgun approach and lost a target he would be screwed. Eventually, he will do great but it will take some time and I doubt that you will see more than one recruit beyond Flemings and I'm making an assumption about him. Face it guys, UK is somewhat down in the eyes of top recruits. Billy has definitely done well, but anybody that thinks some repair is not needed is fooling himself.

[Littlemeyer]

I think there's a contingency in some of the offers. Sutton would sign but has to wait and see if someone better signs first. I love UK; graduated from UK, but I would tell them to stuff the scholarship on that note.

There's no scholarship to "stuff". Sutton has not been offered.

I don't think this board has a clue.

I visit several boards. This board has more clues than most. Stick around a while and you'll see what I mean.

I don't get too worked up over most stuff, but I don't like it when my fellow WCN posters are questioned like that. So you should take that back, before we call on our army of bots to "take care" of the issue. (Yes. We have bots.) (They're intelligent bots, too.) (But don't let that fool you. They've still got a mean-streak.)

[/reminiscing]

Ahhh, the bot days! Weren't those fun? :big_grin:

[Will Lavender]

I think there's a contingency in some of the offers. Sutton would sign but has to wait and see if someone better signs first. I love UK; graduated from UK, but I would tell them to stuff the scholarship on that note. I think BCG knows the stroy and knows what he can offer and knows what he can accept. I don't think this board has a clue. But if he didn't take the shotgun approach and lost a target he would be screwed. Eventually, he will do great but it will take some time and I doubt that you will see more than one recruit beyond Flemings and I'm making an assumption about him. Face it guys, UK is somewhat down in the eyes of top recruits. Billy has definitely done well, but anybody that thinks some repair is not needed is fooling himself.

I'm not sure what your point is, really, so I'm bowing out of the argument. No one really knows what's going to happen, but I would bet the house and the land and the car that he's not just after one player only to stop there. Sort of goes against logic.

Anyway. As Littlemeyer said, Sutton hasn't even been offered a scholarship.

[hardwood2]

Then if I was Sutton, I would tell UK to stuff the potential scholarship by taking the one in Indiana.

Hey, you're not talking to a non-fan or even a fair weather fan. I was there at the first game in Rupp Arena, saw the 78 team win the championship, watched Dwight Anderson take Kansas apart in just a few minutes and even sat in a sea of orange while Melvin Turpin scored 40 points (I think the team had a total of 41). This among many other adventures follwing the Big Blue. Before I calmed down, I couldn't watch a close game and would even leave the house and that was only during the regular season.

So, the point of all this is I've heard the recruiting talk for years and years and the majority is pure speculation. The only difference is now there's a wider audience for the random rumor. On the average, the rumor mill has some information but not a clue to the true picture. Count the scholarships, even those that are speculated, and do the math. We can't have all of them and I don't think BCG believes we can.

Oh, and bring on the bots. You shouldn't post if you don't want to be questioned. That includes all of us.

[hardwood2]

[quote=Will Lavender;448485]I'm not sure what your point is, really, so I'm bowing out of the argument.
quote]

My point is that I think there is a greater expectation that reality will allow. That's not unusual with the UK basketball and helps to make it what it is for better or worse. In my opinion, there is no argument, only discussion of which I think you contribute quality opinions and posts. For that reason I hope you don't bow out, but I think this thread has about run it's course anyway.

[Littlemeyer]

Hey, you're not talking to a non-fan or even a fair weather fan. I was there at the first game in Rupp Arena, saw the 78 team win the championship, watched Dwight Anderson take Kansas apart in just a few minutes and even sat in a sea of orange while Melvin Turpin scored 40 points (I think the team had a total of 41). This among many other adventures follwing the Big Blue. Before I calmed down, I couldn't watch a close game and would even leave the house and that was only during the regular season.

So, the point of all this is I've heard the recruiting talk for years and years and the majority is pure speculation. The only difference is now there's a wider audience for the random rumor. On the average, the rumor mill has some information but not a clue to the true picture. Count the scholarships, even those that are speculated, and do the math. We can't have all of them and I don't think BCG believes we can.

I agree with most of this, especially with regard to speculation. You've got to understand where we're coming from, though: You start a thread titled 'Get Real', go on to say that we can only sign one more player, and that's just not accurate. Many folks, not just I, have explained (or rather, tried) the various ways that we can sign up to three more players. Not sure what else there is to accomplish here.

And I don't doubt your fandom at all. Not sure where that came from. I've enjoyed your posts.

Oh, and bring on the bots. You shouldn't post if you don't want to be questioned. That includes all of us.

:big_grin: I was only half-way kidding about the bots. It's a long story...

[hardwood2]

The idea was not that we could only sign one more player but that it might be the best idea considering there would be only one opening in '09 and that's filled. Now we have the rumor that Meeks is leaving, so who knows. I hope we sign all of them, but the reality seems to be closer to one more, or at least it was. The fandom (good word) was just a way of saying these are not flame posts or posts designed to make the die-hard mad. I am a die-hard; I've just learned to expect much less than the rumor mill. However, I think BCG has done very well and will only get better. He seems to be the right guy for the job.

I figured the bots were some sort of inside joke. I'm a vetran of forums just kinda new to this one.

[Ukosumu]

I know Sutton wants to come to UK but has not been offered. I believe that I read both Majok and Harrelson have been offered. Is this correct? Has any of the other recruits (Flemming, McCoy, etc) been offered?

[Matt Dillon]

Flemmings is headed to Hawaii.

http://www.kentucky.com/276/story/387455.html