Crawford to Lakers

[Radiated]

Congrats Joe

[jkeller]

Great for Joe!

But I was hoping he would last til the Pistons or Celtics.

I hate the Lakers.

[Will Lavender]

Congrats to Joe! :thumbup:

[MakeItEight]

Glad he made it...was afraid he might have not been drafted.

[kentuckyforthewin]

I was waiting all night. I am glad he is going to a good team.

[DBCAT]

If Joe is able to make it out there, then there is a good chance we could see him joining the other Wildcats that have recently won NBA rings in the very near future.

[colonelcatfan]

Great to see Joe drafted...sucks to see him with the Lakers. Still, really happy for Joe, Congrats!!!

[Terry L. Wildcat]

"Hey Joe"...Congratulations and best of luck...the folks in Los Angeles might remember another Wildcat named Pat Riley. :thumbup:

[Mackcat]

I assume he wont wear the number 32 (magic).

[freethrow]

Way to go Joe. I can't believe that some of those others were taken before you. I know you will work your tail off and do a great job. BTW, I hate the Lakers but I will root for them now when you are on the court. Except when you are playing the Celtics, my favorite NBA team, that is. :)

:thumbup::thumbup:

[catscan]

Great for Joe!

But I was hoping he would last til the Pistons or Celtics.

I hate the Lakers.

Join the club,I personally hate the Hollywood blitz type s---! too!;but he is a former KENTUCKY WILDCAT in the NBA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another one bites the dust, gold dust that is.CONGRATS to JOE CRAWFORD, come on show um up!I just LOVE KENTUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GO CATS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nwmn9386]

Hate to sound repetitive, but I also don't like LA, but liked to seem him drafted. Personally I don't think he'll be an NBA'er long, would not doubt it if he doesn't make the cut for the team.

[SamKat]

Congratulations for sticking with Coach Builly Gillispie and making the big draft Joe! Kentucky fans will continue to follow you throughout your life. Thanks for all of the good times you gave us!

You and Ramel became aircraft carriers for Kentucky through stormy seas!

[Matt Dillon]

Congrats, Joe.

[Tom Blevins]

Congratulations, Joe. The Lakers got a real steal.

[Got_Billie_G?]

Congrats Joe!

I know one thing, he's better than Luke freaking Walton so he should get SOME playing time. Walton plays 3/4 the game, and no one can explain to me why...

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

ALL RIGHT JOE !!!!!

I fell asleep mid first round so just saw this this morning. I was REALLY hoping Joe would be picked. Like others, I'm not much of a lakers fan but I am glad he went to a good team instead of one like the clippers or bulls or something ! So I guess that's the third straight year a Cat has gone to the nba...pretty soon we'll be giving them 3 every year.

GO CHUCK
GO KAZ
GO TAY
GO RAJON
GO KEITH
GO RANDOLPH
AND NOW GOOOOOOO JOE !!!!!!
WE LOVE YOU MAN !

[matt colvin]

^^^^ Go Antoine

Go Nazr

Go Jamal Magloire

Go Da

Go Who Ever Else I Might Be Forgetting!!!!!!!!!!

[Chaz]

Congrats to Joe. Like many, I'm not a fan of the Fakers and will only cheer for Joe, not the team. I will always pull for the former Cats to do well.

[crazzedcats22]

Congrats to Joe!

Here's ESPN's analysis of the pick...ouch

28 (58)LA Lakers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/team?team=lal&draftyear=2008)Joe Crawford (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19312&draftyear=2008)6-4213SG (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/position?id=2&draftyear=2008)Kentucky (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/school?id=96&draftyear=2008)Crawford is a bit of a tweener as a combo guard. He played well in Orlando but I doubt he sticks in the league.

[Ukosumu]

Congrats to Joe!

Here's ESPN's analysis of the pick...ouch

28 (58)LA Lakers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/team?team=lal&draftyear=2008)Joe Crawford (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19312&draftyear=2008)6-4213SG (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/position?id=2&draftyear=2008)Kentucky (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/school?id=96&draftyear=2008)Crawford is a bit of a tweener as a combo guard. He played well in Orlando but I doubt he sticks in the league.
With little expected, the sky is the limit. Nobody thought Chuck Hayes would play in the NBA.:shrug1:

[BOURBON TOWN CAT FAN]

58. Los Angeles Lakers (http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/teams/lakers/index.html): Joe Crawford, Kentucky, G, 6-4 DeCourcy's take: During his senior season, Crawford revealed a competitive spirit that previously was hidden -- and that's what got him into the draft. He'll probably have to spend some prep time in the D-League to crack a roster that was capable of getting to the Finals, but Crawford will get the opportunity to shoot his way onto the team. He is especially adept at one-dribble moves, which can work well in the NBA if they're executed quickly enough. His biggest problem will be defending his position -- is he long enough to contain NBA wings?

[TrueblueCATfan]

CONGRATS to Joe...........he is just one more to add to the list of WILDCATS in the NBA draft....

Did anyone from Loserville get drafted???

[MO UK FAN]

Congrats to Joe. That's what you get for working your butt off your senior season!! Good luck!!

[ukwebfan]

This might be a good fit. Fox has him listed as a SF but with his skill set, I can see him backing up Kobe at SG.

Fox Sports (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/teamRoster?statsId=13)

Come to the Summer league in shape and make noise Joe. Turn me into a Laker fan the way Rajon made me a Celtic fan. :thumbup:

[John Clay Rice Jr.]

Congrats to Joe. That's what you get for working your butt off your senior season!! Good luck!!
Nope and neither Duke or UNC.:icon_mrgreen:

[John Clay Rice Jr.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RPdCpjRwxg

[catszoom54]

Joe's passion for the game led the Wildcats last year to the tournament and the way the man played cannot be overlooked and I am glad the Lakers saw what kinda player he can be and they will not regret this pick because he will be a key reserve for somebody one of these days and I hope Ramel can be patient and stick in the NBDL cause I think he can wiggle his way to an NBA team because he is better than some of the 2nd round talent selected.

[Catligula]

Not much new here, but here's an article:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_9715800

[Calsegs]

Well I'll be hornswoggled, I just became a fan of the team I love to hate!

[DonnieKat]

Awesome news and well deserved. Way to hang in there Joe. Good things are a comin'.

NBA teams that have taken a flyer on UK players in recent years have really been rewarded. Bogans, Rondo, Hayes, KAZ and Prince were all late 1st round/second round/non-drafted players that have found their niche. I confident that Joe will be joining that group soon.

[KY Native in IN]

Congrats to Joe!

Here's ESPN's analysis of the pick...ouch

28 (58)LA Lakers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/team?team=lal&draftyear=2008)Joe Crawford (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19312&draftyear=2008)6-4213SG (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/position?id=2&draftyear=2008)Kentucky (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/school?id=96&draftyear=2008)Crawford is a bit of a tweener as a combo guard. He played well in Orlando but I doubt he sticks in the league.


since when do we give a poop what ESPN has to say about anything? just cause he came from UK....if he'd been a starting 5'er for the ACC they'd be lauding him as the next big thing....

glad Joe got drafted, just wish it'd been for another team....never liked the Lakers myself...but i wish him the best....i feel he gave UK his....

[Blue Bleeder1]

Wish it were somewhere else, but Congrats Joe.

[westtncat]

Im really happy for Joe. I have nothing against the Lakers per say but in my opinion hes not playing with the best personel right now. He needs to get away from Kobie. Far far away.

[UKhoov]

when he got picked and Jay Bilas gave his run down of Joe (which can be seen in the video above) he described Joe perfectly, and I'm surprised I havent heard it before or thought of it myself. He is a smaller version of Keith Bogans.

Good Luck Joe.:widcat:

[WildcatRick]

Kentucky guard Joe Crawford said he had been waiting for this moment all his life.

For Mitch Kupchak it felt like a lifetime before the Lakers were able to announce that they had selected Crawford with their lone pick, No. 58, in Thursday’s NBA Draft.

When Kupchak finally called Crawford after 9 p.m. PDT, 57 players had been selected.

“When the day started, I was really nervous,” Crawford said. “Then to go to one of my favorite teams in L.A, I can’t explain it.”

http://www.kentucky.com/276/story/445183.html

[wildcat537]

must be some more jay bilas logic!!!!^^^^

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

^^^^ Go Antoine

Go Nazr

Go Jamal Magloire

Go Da

Go Who Ever Else I Might Be Forgetting!!!!!!!!!!

yeah..sorry.

not much of an nba follower here, but I do try to see former Cats if they're on. I just saw today where Antoine was traded in the Mayo/Love deal, I thought he was already out of the league. I simply forgot about Mags and didn't know if Nazr was still playing. DA though, isn't he retired
already ??

[matt colvin]

Not according to Yahoo sports. Just checked. He and Nazr are under the watchful blind eyes of MJ.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

WOW
I didn't know the lakers only had one pick! that's pretty cool to think that an nba finals team only got one crack at getting a quality guy for next year and took Joe. the 57 players selected ahead of may have thinned the lakers' selection pool but not all of those guys were better college players than Joe so who cares?

and the fact that LA is apparently one of Joe's favorite teams is pretty special too. The guy's been working and waiting his whole life for this...he probably pretended himself a laker as a kid out on the playground, taking the last second shot, just as I pretended myself as Roger Hardin or James Blackman out in the neigbor's driveway.

Joe's been working too hard to quit now, Billy really taught him something. That guy will do everything he can to make the team, and that, having watched him pick apart defenses all season, will be enough to make him a pro.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

Not according to Yahoo sports. Just checked. He and Nazr are under the watchful blind eyes of MJ.

hey great then !

thanks.

[poodoo]

Again, CONGRATS to Joe! :) Also, here's hoping Joe makes the roster AND that Ramel eventually lands in the NBA.

[jjcatfan000]

when he got picked and Jay Bilas gave his run down of Joe (which can be seen in the video above) he described Joe perfectly, and I'm surprised I havent heard it before or thought of it myself. He is a smaller version of Keith Bogans.

Good Luck Joe.:widcat:


I think Bilas is dead on. Crawford is a slightly smaller version of Keith Bogans and Keith just happens to be one of my favorite players.

The Lakers clearly picked up Crawford because of his defense. The Lakers have a void there that showed up against The Celtics. Kobe can't guard Ray Allen AND Paul Pierce. That left The Lakers with guys like Sasha Vujicic and Jordan Farmar trying to defend those guys and Kobe got into foul trouble.

And by the way. Another Kentucky player going to The NBA who was recruited and developed by Tubby Smith, who in "most circles" (translation, Kentucky) is considered to be a poor recruiter...

[matt colvin]

And by the way. Another Kentucky player going to The NBA who was recruited and developed by Tubby Smith, who in "most circles" (translation, Kentucky) is considered to be a poor recruiter...

Sorry, but I have to say my opinion on this. NO way Crawford gets drafted after a senior year under Smith.

I've held my silence long enough. Joe, once he gave in to BCG, began to realize his potential.

You have to realize he was rated #8 overall in THAT class in 2004. Getting drafted shouldn't have been a problem, based upon his accolades coming out of high school. He was a hair under-sized or a step slow, however you want to view it. But BCG brought the fightin' side out of Joe Crawford, and THAT is why he was drafted. I believe the lessons he learned will help him earn a spot on the roster, given continued health.

[jdeasy]

I think Bilas is dead on. Crawford is a slightly smaller version of Keith Bogans and Keith just happens to be one of my favorite players.

The Lakers clearly picked up Crawford because of his defense. The Lakers have a void there that showed up against The Celtics. Kobe can't guard Ray Allen AND Paul Pierce. That left The Lakers with guys like Sasha Vujicic and Jordan Farmar trying to defend those guys and Kobe got into foul trouble.

And by the way. Another Kentucky player going to The NBA who was recruited and developed by Tubby Smith, who in "most circles" (translation, Kentucky) is considered to be a poor recruiter...


tubby was not a poor recruiter. The problems tubby had at UK were not player problems. They were purely coaching problems.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

Sorry, but I have to say my opinion on this. NO way Crawford gets drafted after a senior year under Smith.

.

wow, I'm surprised it took even SEVEN minutes for somebody to say this after Tubby's name was brought up. The truth of the matter is that NOBODY KNOWS whether Joe would have been drafted under Smith, just like NOBODY KNOWS whether 2Pat would have come here, or if Jodie would have been injured.....and the list goes on.

It is completely pointless and non fact-based to say that there is "no way" Joe would have gone pro otherwise. Keep in mind that as much fire Billy brought out in Joe, it's not like the guy was a nobody in his fresh-junior years. His junior year he was the best player on the team. And I think we can all agree that he wouldn't have had so many high scoring games had we not had a ridiculous amount of injuries. Also keep in mind that BG couldn't even get Joe onto SEC first team, so let's not make this a Tubby/Billy thing.

Joe got HIMSELF to the league, and that's really all we know for sure.

[matt colvin]

Seven minutes makes a big difference.

I don't see what Patrick's decision has to do with anything here. I especially have no clue what Jodie's injury has to do with anything. Your wording above makes it sound like you think it was Coach's fault :icon_rolleyes:.

But that's not the point here. First, imo, Joe wasn't the best player on the team his junior year. When Randolph had "his head in the game", it wasn't even close!

He didn't make first team because Shan Foster deserved it more. Ramel made it though. Patrick didn't even make, instead he was second team along with Joe. It's easy to make statements like that without looking at who beat them out and why.

And it is a question of player development. That's kind of the whole point of this part of the discussion. You're right, Joe made the choice to work hard and listen to Coach. IMO, had he continued in line with career previous to that decision, he wouldn't have been drafted. He might have worked his way onto a roster, but he wouldn't have been drafted.

We surely don't know, and won't know. But that's the whole point of the phrase "IMO", :icon_lol:. Crawford's comments about Coach's impact on his life and game certainly don't hurt though :thumbup:

[jjcatfan000]

Sorry, but I have to say my opinion on this. NO way Crawford gets drafted after a senior year under Smith.

I've held my silence long enough. Joe, once he gave in to BCG, began to realize his potential.

You have to realize he was rated #8 overall in THAT class in 2004. Getting drafted shouldn't have been a problem, based upon his accolades coming out of high school. He was a hair under-sized or a step slow, however you want to view it. But BCG brought the fightin' side out of Joe Crawford, and THAT is why he was drafted. I believe the lessons he learned will help him earn a spot on the roster, given continued health.


I disagree. The Lakers didn't draft Crawford based on his scoring, they drafted him because of his defense, like many Tubby Smith recruits. He's not going to score in the NBA and The Lakers didn't need scoring.

If you are going to give Billy Gillispie credit for getting Crawford into The NBA (why didn't he get Ramel in as well?), then you must also give Tubby Smith credit for getting Wayne Turner, Nazr Mohammed, Scott Padgett, and Jeff Shepard on an NBA roster. For that matter, guys like Shandon Anderson would be on that list too.

You tell me what Billy Gillispie did to improve Crawford's defense? Actually, tell me what Gillispie did, other than bring in his "my way or the highway" attitude? I think Crawford helped himself more than Gillispie helped him. He had to play the way Gillispie wanted or he wouldn't play at all, which would pretty much eliminate any chances he would have of getting drafted.

[matt colvin]

I disagree. The Lakers didn't draft Crawford based on his scoring, they drafted him because of his defense, like many Tubby Smith recruits. He's not going to score in the NBA and The Lakers didn't need scoring.




Where did I say that? Or anybody else for that matter.

[Will Lavender]

I disagree. The Lakers didn't draft Crawford based on his scoring, they drafted him because of his defense, like many Tubby Smith recruits. He's not going to score in the NBA and The Lakers didn't need scoring.

What?

Joe's a tremendous offensive player. Always was, even under Tubby. Good defender, yes, but his bread and butter is his ability to lower his head, bowl over people and put the ball in the basket. Notice in Jay Bilas's two-minute commentary on Crawford he didn't say the word "defense" once.

Who's he gonna lock down in the NBA at a short-armed and fairly slow 6'3"? Joe had problems guarding from time to time in college. Bigger players gave him fits constantly. Notice when we played UAB who guarded their best player.

Crawford? No, Michael Porter.

[Will Lavender]

Also notice in the interview with Mitch Kupchak that the thing he mentions about Joe is his shooting ability.

JJcatfan, I share some of your opinions on Tubby Smith, but sometimes it's almost like you're not watching the Cats play, man.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Congrats to Joe!!!!!!!!!.....just another Wildcat in the NBA whether is he is Tubby recruit or not...we will see alot more Wildcats in the future NBA's count on it

[jjcatfan000]

What?

Joe's a tremendous offensive player. Always was, even under Tubby. Good defender, yes, but his bread and butter is his ability to lower his head, bowl over people and put the ball in the basket. Notice in Jay Bilas's two-minute commentary on Crawford he didn't say the word "defense" once.

Who's he gonna lock down in the NBA at a short-armed and fairly slow 6'3"? Joe had problems guarding from time to time in college. Bigger players gave him fits constantly. Notice when we played UAB who guarded their best player.

Crawford? No, Michael Porter.


Not surprising that Porter was guarding UAB's best player with how Gillispie started the season. Would Tubby Smith have had Porter guarding the other teams best player? Not likely.

Also, if The Lakers want Crawford to score for them, then he will have a tough time making the team over the guys they already have locked in, like Farmar, Vujicic, and you ain't getting many minutes behind Kobe Bryant.

No, he will be a defender, and get the ball only when plays break down.

If you are going strictly by what Jay "don't forget I played for Duke" Bilas says, he also said he is a smaller version of Keith Bogans. I love Keith, but Keith is a defensive minded player who was an awesome scorer in college. In The NBA, he is a defensive stopper/spot up shooter. He only gets the ball when plays break down. They don't run plays for him. Even if they did, he might only score 3-4 more ppg.

How do you expect Crawford to give that kind of production? Also, it's easier to defend in The NBA.

[jjcatfan000]

Where did I say that? Or anybody else for that matter.


You didn't have to say it. The numbers speak for themselves. You gave Gillispie all the credit for Crawford getting drafted, saying he would never make it under Tubby Smith.

Crawford's PPG were up by almost 4, his FG were up by a couple, but his steals and rebounds were down from the previous year.

[matt colvin]

You didn't have to say it. The numbers speak for themselves. You gave Gillispie all the credit for Crawford getting drafted, saying he would never make it under Tubby Smith.

Crawford's PPG were up by almost 4, his FG were up by a couple, but his steals and rebounds were down from the previous year.

How would you compare Joe Crawford the junior to Joe Crawford the senior?

If you saw difference, do you think it was a transgression that would have been made naturally? Or was there something different?

I saw a guy who finally got it. Learned to leave it all on the court every game. Saw an undersized, step slow, strong guard who committed to playing defense by the end of the year, every game. I saw a player who learned to play within himself, and utilize the tools that he did have.

You have to wonder how much his nagging knee injuries impacted his ability to utilize his athleticism. Surely some. But he made up for it with hard work.

Joe, by the end of the year, wouldn't have fallen apart like he did in the IU game earlier that season. He was too mature, too tough. If Joe was having a streak of poor shooting, he wouldn't pout around, he just worked harder on winning the game.

Marked differences from a player who had so much expected of him, in mainly the course of one season. He developed during his previous 3 years, but he developed more in this last one that any other, perhaps those combined. I liked what I saw, I look forward to seeing more of it. That's the main thing I can't wait to see next year. Player development. It's the only way you'll stay alive in the college game.

Go CATS.

[Will Lavender]

If you are going strictly by what Jay "don't forget I played for Duke" Bilas says, he also said he is a smaller version of Keith Bogans. I love Keith, but Keith is a defensive minded player who was an awesome scorer in college. In The NBA, he is a defensive stopper/spot up shooter. He only gets the ball when plays break down. They don't run plays for him. Even if they did, he might only score 3-4 more ppg.

And this is exactly why Joe's going to have to work extremely hard to even make that team.

He's simply not the defensive player Keith is, mostly because of his size. He doesn't have the defensive upside. You don't see stocky guys who don't have a ton of lateral quickness being known for defensive stoppers in the NBA. But Joe might have more of an offensive upside because he's more powerful and he might be more crafty as a scorer.

As to your argument about Gillispie not making Joe into the player that he is.

Let's ask Joe Crawford what he thinks of Billy Gillispie, shall we?

[Will Lavender]

Also, it's easier to defend in The NBA.

I'm going to shelve this point right next to your one about the 1996 team's talent.

Outstanding! :thumbup:

[poodoo]

Congrats to Joe!!!!!!!!!.....just another Wildcat in the NBA whether is he is Tubby recruit or not...we will see alot more Wildcats in the future NBA's count on it

Who could not love this post! :icon_biggrin: Also, in regard to Joe's getting drafted, I think he himself gets the most credit. I agree that Joe himself would give Coach G a deserved ton of credit. Actually, though, I suspect Joe would also give his former coach some credit. Perhaps someone will ask Joe himself the question. :shrug1::big_grin:

Perhaps someone can provide the link to Rick Bozich's CJ Wednesday or Thursday column (I think). FWIW, Bozich, who has thrown his share of "digs" toward our former coach in the past, wrote that he expects Joe to exceed the NBA's expectations. His five "reasons" for his view were current NBA players Tayshaun Prince and Rajon Rondo, who were taken late in the first round; Keith Bogans, who was taken at #43 in the second round; and Chuck Hayes and Kelenna Azubuike, neither of which were drafted. Bozich basically shares facts about those players and gives Coach Smith some credit for their making it in the NBA.

WHAT MATTERS, though, is that Joe has the chance, regardless of who or what helped him get that chance. Anything positive he says about Coach Gillispie, and I expect him to do just that, is GREAT for Kentucky basketball. :) GO JOE!!!

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

in regard to Joe's getting drafted, I think he himself gets the most credit. I agree that Joe himself would give Coach G a deserved ton of credit. Actually, though, I suspect Joe would also give his former coach some credit. GO JOE!!!


excellent point poodoo !

[Terry L. Wildcat]

yeah..sorry.

not much of an nba follower here, but I do try to see former Cats if they're on. I just saw today where Antoine was traded in the Mayo/Love deal, I thought he was already out of the league. I simply forgot about Mags and didn't know if Nazr was still playing. DA though, isn't he retired
already ??

Cat Fan In...your email would not work...PM or email me...great discs. T

[kentuckyfan22]

i know you kentucky fans cant stand tennessee, but i think chris lofton is amazing. i cant believe he didnt get picked. at least a kentucky boy made it though! too bad he couldnt go back and play in his hometown detroit.:icon_confused:

[Will Lavender]

i know you kentucky fans cant stand tennessee, but i think chris lofton is amazing. i cant believe he didnt get picked. at least a kentucky boy made it though! too bad he couldnt go back and play in his hometown detroit.:icon_confused:

A guy I was shocked to not see drafted:

Jamont Gordon

[catszoom54]

A guy I was shocked to not see drafted:

Jamont Gordon

Me too but if he decides to enter the NBDL he will make an NBA team in the near future

[Got_Billie_G?]

The difference between Crawford during Tubby tenure and BG is health. He was consistently healthy his senior year. And he got more shots due to Meeks being out for the year so his offensive numbers looked better. Then when Patterson went down, he stepped it up and started dropping 20+ a game. Joe has improved each year in college, which is what happens when you stay in college. Both Tubby and BG get the credit, but he was the same player under both coaches. He gets drafted either way.

[Got_Billie_G?]

i know you kentucky fans cant stand tennessee, but i think chris lofton is amazing. i cant believe he didnt get picked. at least a kentucky boy made it though! too bad he couldnt go back and play in his hometown detroit.:icon_confused:


I wasn't that surprised, his size hurts him but that's been projected to hurt him his entire career and he has always proved his doubters wrong. I think he can get a spot but it will be tough, not a point guard and too small for a shooting guard in the league. He'll have to work on his PG skills and go for that spot.

[allnet]

How would you compare Joe Crawford the junior to Joe Crawford the senior?

If you saw difference, do you think it was a transgression that would have been made naturally? Or was there something different?

I saw a guy who finally got it. Learned to leave it all on the court every game. Saw an undersized, step slow, strong guard who committed to playing defense by the end of the year, every game. I saw a player who learned to play within himself, and utilize the tools that he did have.

You have to wonder how much his nagging knee injuries impacted his ability to utilize his athleticism. Surely some. But he made up for it with hard work.

Joe, by the end of the year, wouldn't have fallen apart like he did in the IU game earlier that season. He was too mature, too tough. If Joe was having a streak of poor shooting, he wouldn't pout around, he just worked harder on winning the game.

Marked differences from a player who had so much expected of him, in mainly the course of one season. He developed during his previous 3 years, but he developed more in this last one that any other, perhaps those combined. I liked what I saw, I look forward to seeing more of it. That's the main thing I can't wait to see next year. Player development. It's the only way you'll stay alive in the college game.

Go CATS.

I can't see much of your argument as being grounded in reality. We can throw a lot of subjective terms around and basically argue any point we want from any point of view, but Joe was basically the same player as a senior he was the other 3 years of his career, except his junior year he was called selfish for much the same play he gave us last season. He did much the same last season as he had the prior 3. Improved each year imo. This year I thought Joe did his own developing, much as many seniors before him. Worked especially hard as had many seniors before him, realizing the end of the race was in sight. G might have clarified or offered a new philosophy that Joe embraced, but unfortunately the same opportunity caused Legion and Jasper to leave the team, so it is hard for me to get over excited about coaches input on this senior season. Joe might be more in tune with G, and G obviously has him by the neck in his senior season. Joe commits or sits, so we are going to see them hug and go forward, Joe had no choice(but neither did G).

KY had a feel good season after a lousy start. I might be the only one observing this year that felt G finally adjusting, and buying in to his own players, was probably as important if not more important than his players mental committment to "his style" or whatever you want to label it. All in all I think you guys are overemphasizing how coach figures into this. Give Joe a bunch of credit, G a little, Tubby a little, lets add in his family, and I am really surprised no one has brought in quotes from Crawford's high school coach to shore up their argument. Can't we get some of those?:icon_biggrin:

[matt colvin]

I can't see much of your argument as being grounded in reality. We can throw a lot of subjective terms around and basically argue any point we want from any point of view, but Joe was basically the same player as a senior he was the other 3 years of his career, except his junior year he was called selfish for much the same play he gave us last season. He did much the same last season as he had the prior 3. Improved each year imo. This year I thought Joe did his own developing, much as many seniors before him. Worked especially hard as had many seniors before him, realizing the end of the race was in sight. G might have clarified or offered a new philosophy that Joe embraced, but unfortunately the same opportunity caused Legion and Jasper to leave the team, so it is hard for me to get over excited about coaches input on this senior season. Joe might be more in tune with G, and G obviously has him by the neck in his senior season. Joe commits or sits, so we are going to see them hug and go forward, Joe had no choice(but neither did G).

KY had a feel good season after a lousy start. I might be the only one observing this year that felt G finally adjusting, and buying in to his own players, was probably as important if not more important than his players mental committment to "his style" or whatever you want to label it. All in all I think you guys are overemphasizing how coach figures into this. Give Joe a bunch of credit, G a little, Tubby a little, lets add in his family, and I am really surprised no one has brought in quotes from Crawford's high school coach to shore up their argument. Can't we get some of those?:icon_biggrin:

First of all, I'm glad that you're someone that can discuss things :thumbup:

But, I just can't understand how people didn't see Joe as being different by the end of the year than at any point previously in his career.

As you said, it's difficult to quantify the changes. But they weren't so much about stats as they were about the things I mentioned. The only way to see that is sit down, watch the games, and compare to previous years.

I don't mean to imply that he didn't improve any under Coach Smith, but I feel his improvement in one year under BCG was markedly improved.

It's in the past, and I now look forward to continued player development, great recruiting, and many many more W's for the Cats!

[Will Lavender]

I'm sort of between Matt and allnet.

I don't think Joe was transormed or anything like that. His weaknesses were still present, but his minutes played resulted in a statistical increase (obviously). I do think he was a tougher player, a player that we could count on down the stretch in games. Joe never really could do much when it mattered, and then this past season he was hitting big shot after big shot. I think that has to be credited, at least in part, to the toughness Gillispie insists his players play with.

But I was more impressed with what Gillispie was able to do with Ramel. Ramel went from a frustrating player to the best player on the team in one off-season.

The biggest thing was this. I know Gillispie was very, very hard on both those guys. I saw it with my own eyes. He really dogged Crawford at the beginning of the year; I think he was trying to break Joe down and build him up, and it certainly worked. (What a risky move by the way; to treat a senior like that, one who you know you're going to need to win games? That's a brilliant coaching move.) I think by the midway point, both of them "got it." I don't think they ever got it with Tubby.

[allnet]

I'm sort of between Matt and allnet.

I don't think Joe was transormed or anything like that. His weaknesses were still present, but his minutes played resulted in a statistical increase (obviously). I do think he was a tougher player, a player that we could count on down the stretch in games. Joe never really could do much when it mattered, and then this past season he was hitting big shot after big shot. I think that has to be credited, at least in part, to the toughness Gillispie insists his players play with.

But I was more impressed with what Gillispie was able to do with Ramel. Ramel went from a frustrating player to the best player on the team in one off-season.

The biggest thing was this. I know Gillispie was very, very hard on both those guys. I saw it with my own eyes. He really dogged Crawford at the beginning of the year; I think he was trying to break Joe down and build him up, and it certainly worked. (What a risky move by the way; to treat a senior like that, one who you know you're going to need to win games? That's a brilliant coaching move.) I think by the midway point, both of them "got it." I don't think they ever got it with Tubby.

I can't see it as all that brilliant or earthshaking as a coaching move myself, since I don't view this year's Joe as being that much different from last years Joe(in spite of all the subjective praise going on). He and Bradley and PP were the go to guys, and when G finally "got it", along with PP, Joe and Ramel, things went forward. I just don't see the coach at this point being the big difference on anybody's game. And as far as brilliant coaching moves, hey, it's a tossup as to what is brilliant, and what is not brilliant in the last year. I thought G's emphasis on conditioning was good, his emphasis on the low feeder pass, significant, the double pass out of bounds play against TN, pulled out with perfect timing, finally clarifying the offense and making the defense more adjustable, all that was good stuff we would expect from a good coach. And coaching is a team endeavor. If you take a coach's tactic and apply it to one player who had a good season, and call it brilliant, and ignore two players that left the team in face of the same tactics, are you really getting the gist of how the coach is coming across with kids individually?
I don't think either is really significant, but to focus on one or the other misses the bigger picture. Joe got to be drafted playing Joe ball I think, and much as he enjoyed playing for G or feels G might have helped him individually, when you get out there on the court, you gotta do it, not the coach.

[Will Lavender]

^ It was brilliant because Gillispie saw that Joe needed an overhaul. Not in his game, but in his attitude. Whether you want to admit it or not, Joe did a lot of sulking in his first three years. He was one of those players who was prone to let a couple of missed shots throw him totally off.

I know how Gillispie dealt with him early in the season. Saw it sitting there in Memorial and then, a month later, in Freedom Hall when the team practiced. It was not pretty. But it made Joe tougher, as evidenced by his ability to play through mistakes better, to play through injury, and most importantly to have the gall to hit big shots.

We argued it on this board many times: the fact that Joe never could make a shot when we needed him to. Well, how many big shots did he hit this season? Coincidence? Doubtful.

[Will Lavender]

And really, the best source here is Joe Crawford himself.

I recommend listening to what Joe himself says about Coach Gillispie.

[allnet]

^ It was brilliant because Gillispie saw that Joe needed an overhaul. Not in his game, but in his attitude. Whether you want to admit it or not, Joe did a lot of sulking in his first three years. He was one of those players who was prone to let a couple of missed shots throw him totally off.

I know how Gillispie dealt with him early in the season. Saw it sitting there in Memorial and then, a month later, in Freedom Hall when the team practiced. It was not pretty. But it made Joe tougher, as evidenced by his ability to play through mistakes better, to play through injury, and most importantly to have the gall to hit big shots.

We argued it on this board many times: the fact that Joe never could make a shot when we needed him to. Well, how many big shots did he hit this season? Coincidence? Doubtful.

There yuh go again, brilliant on Joe, ok, failure on Legion, failure with Jasper, what was that all about. Same coach, and undoubtedly the same approach. What an inflexible dope, ran his own good players off, right?
No, but not brilliant handling of Joe either.

As far as Joe sulking? Your claim not mine, and no I don't admit that at all. Joe might have worried and he might have tightened up, but sulking? You create a version of Joe that you can then claim Billy totally changed, but I never viewed Joe as sulking to start with. You give the coach way too much credit here.

As for Joe hitting big shots? What? He was hitting a lot of shots and doing a lot to keep us in games before this season. I expect him to do more in his senior season, not less. A season that has all but crapped out, a rebuilding state of mind, a new coach/new system, not much pressure to perform, and everything that succeeds is gravy, hey, that can free up a player's mind a lot.

I am not buying the G made Joe argument, nor the hypothetical, so and so would be so much better under G, or G woulda coulda. Joe essentially made Joe, and that Joe is now an NBA draftee. Good luck Joe.

Next argument going to be G made PP?

Let the Joe blow go. Lets wait and see what G does with Razor and Stewart, now I personally see them as fertile coaching ground waiting to be developed into ocean front property.

We'll talk later. :thumbup:

[Will Lavender]

There yuh go again, brilliant on Joe, ok, failure on Legion, failure with Jasper, what was that all about. Same coach, and undoubtedly the same approach. What an inflexible dope, ran his own good players off, right?

Some players can handle it, I guess, and some players can't. It is, as I admit two posts up, a risky way to manage your guys. Yet taking risks is the way you become great. Our previous coach took very few risks unless they were of the Hail Mary variety on the recruiting trail, and look where that got us. One thing Billy Gillispie isn't is conservative.

Although I don't think Jasper left to get away from Gillispie, so to consider that a "failure" is to set up a false argument. He claims he left to be closer to his family, so unless the player was lying...

As far as Joe sulking? Your claim not mine, and no I don't admit that at all.

Of course you don't. When we talked about Joe before, you rushed in to call everyone else out for seeing things that weren't there.

If a hundred people see something and allnet doesn't, then maybe it's allnet's willful blindness of the player and his game. Because if you saw no problems with Joe's game or his demeanor up to his senior year, then you were simply looking in the other direction.

Billy Gillispie sure disagreed with you, because he came in and began to tear Joe down right from the start. Trust me on that...though I know you won't.

[allnet]

[quote=Will Lavender;472973]

"One thing Billy Gillispie isn't is conservative."

I can agree with that, but don't really care what your perception of the other coach was.

"Although I don't think Jasper left to get away from Gillispie, so to consider that a "failure" is to set up a false argument. He claims he left to be closer to his family, so unless the player was lying..."

Ok, let us just say that Billy's coaching was so uncompelling that Jasper did not feel the need to stay here and be coached 2 more years in that style.


"If a hundred people see something and allnet doesn't, then maybe it's allnet's willful blindness of the player and his game. Because if you saw no problems with Joe's game or his demeanor up to his senior year, then you were simply looking in the the other direction."

If the crickets are all chirping, it doesn't increase their collective IQ.

"Billy Gillispie sure disagreed with you, because he came in and began to tear Joe down right from the start. Trust me on that...though I know you won't."

How is that, by making Joe go through the conditioning drills until he had some wind, like the rest of the team that DIDN'T have surgery? Or was it when Joe had to sit out a half for failing to meet team expectations? :icon_rolleyes:

[Will Lavender]

How is that, by making Joe go through the conditioning drills until he had some wind, like the rest of the team that DIDN'T have surgery? Or was it when Joe had to sit out a half for failing to meet team expectations?

I'd say it was somewhere between this and gentle torture. And that's exactly--EXACTLY--what a player like Crawford needed. I've played with guys like Joe, I've seen them play, and if you treat them with kid gloves then they'll just fall further into their old habits. Gillispie didn't do that, and it helped our team and it helped Joe's career.

And again. Let's go to the source. The only way to know for sure how effective Gillispie was is to look at Joe as a junior and Joe as a senior.

Would Joe have been drafted as a junior? Of course not. He wasn't even in the discussion.

And while I agree that Joe himself should get credit for this, you have to give the coach credit as well for doing something many UK fans didn't think was possible. Also, it wasn't like Joe was reinventing his game in the off-season; he was out with knee surgery. So all of what he did, he did from October on--under the tutelage of Gillispie.

[allnet]

I'd say it was somewhere between this and gentle torture. And that's exactly--EXACTLY--what a player like Crawford needed. I've played with guys like Joe, I've seen them play, and if you treat them with kid gloves then they'll just fall further into their old habits.


I'm not going to put rolling eyes here, much as I'm tempted, but you got to admit....:)

[Will Lavender]

I'm not going to put rolling eyes here, much as I'm tempted, but you got to admit....:)

You can roll your eyes all you want. Doesn't bother me. My son rolls his eyes at me all the time. He's four.

But again, I'm not sure if you could rustle up many people on this board who didn't see a noticeable difference in the Joe Crawford this year as compared to '07. You don't, but as I keep saying you never saw any problem with him before this season. Most of us (all of us?) did*. That's the problem, and it's why we can't agree on this issue.

As you say, it wasn't really Joe's game. He was the same "kind" of player this past season. So it had to be something else. His mental toughness, maybe? His demeanor? Do you think Crawford himself reworked his mind in a few short months? Do you think anyone else besides you believes that?

Of course we're all crickets, so...

* I'll put in that while he wasn't a complete player before Gillispie got here, Joe was far better than many UK fans gave him credit for being. A lot of folks wanted to cut him loose (I saw that sentiment on this very board a few times); obviously that's absurd. But Joe was not a player who had anything special before this year. And now he's got a shot at becoming a Los Angeles Laker. Yeah, that had nothing to do with Billy Gillispie. Nothing at all.

[allnet]

OK, so you won't admit it. Probably the side effects of being a writer, and certain personality traits I must not possess. .

I admit it, and I can even roll my eyes at my own posts sometimes. Might be something you would want to try in the future, otherwise, you might find your beautiful skin gets all crinkled and dull, your teeth fall out, and you have incurable gas. :icon_confused:

[Will Lavender]

OK, so you won't admit it. Probably the side effects of being a writer, and certain personality traits I must not possess. .

I admit it, and I can even roll my eyes at my own posts sometimes. Might be something you would want to try in the future, otherwise, you might find your beautiful skin gets all crinkled and dull, your teeth fall out, and you have incurable gas. :icon_confused:

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be admitting.

Are you trying to pull a Bugs Bunny on me, allnet?

"No I'm not. No I'm not. No I'm not. Yes I am..."

[allnet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Lavender http://www.wildcatnation.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wildcatnation.net/forum/showthread.php?p=472991#post472991)
I'd say it was somewhere between this and gentle torture. And that's exactly--EXACTLY--what a player like Crawford needed. I've played with guys like Joe, I've seen them play, and if you treat them with kid gloves then they'll just fall further into their old habits.



:icon_rolleyes: I give. Don't admit it.

[Will Lavender]

I feel like I've entered Bizarroworld.

I assume you're trying to get me to admit that I made a stupid point.

But I recall two other threads about Joe Crawford. I remember them well, in fact.

In one, I was talking about the fact that Joe looked destroyed after he missed a crucial shot in the SEC Tournament two years ago. In another, we were talking about Joe sitting on the bench after Tubby pulled him out. Both times you jumped in to suggest that it was silly to read too much into either event.

But look at Joe's career. Look at his the arc of his career. His problem was not his skill. He had that. His problem was that he just let his confidence be shaken too easily, and this caused him to have the propensity to be easily taken out of games.

Maybe you don't believe in confidence. Maybe you think anything other than statistics and ESPN highlight footage is worthless. Maybe you've never played sports. But I really believe that it's a mental game, and when Joe was "toughened up" by our current coach he proceeded to become a very good player. A potential pro, in fact.

He was one who really, truly needed that "my way or the highway" approach you mock above.

[TrueblueCATfan]

here is view from a 3rd person on this......Joe was a differnet player in 08 then he was in 07..I saw this everytime he took the court.......I don't ever recall Joe having 2 35 point plus games during the 07 season....not to here to make comparsion between Tubby and Gillespie...won't go there.....but Joe Crawford was a better player this past season..I loved Joe .... will miss him next year

[matt colvin]

Can a picture really say a thousand words?

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Graphics/Players/joe_crawford8.jpg

[allnet]

I feel like I've entered Bizarroworld.

I assume you're trying to get me to admit that I made a stupid point.

But I recall two other threads about Joe Crawford. I remember them well, in fact.

In one, I was talking about the fact that Joe looked destroyed after he missed a crucial shot in the SEC Tournament two years ago. In another, we were talking about Joe sitting on the bench after Tubby pulled him out. Both times you jumped in to suggest that it was silly to read too much into either event.

But look at Joe's career. Look at his the arc of his career. His problem was not his skill. He had that. His problem was that he just let his confidence be shaken too easily, and this caused him to have the propensity to be easily taken out of games.

Maybe you don't believe in confidence. Maybe you think anything other than statistics and ESPN highlight footage is worthless. Maybe you've never played sports. But I really believe that it's a mental game, and when Joe was "toughened up" by our current coach he proceeded to become a very good player. A potential pro, in fact.

He was one who really, truly needed that "my way or the highway" approach you mock above.

I told you I give, but now that "Maybe you've never played sports."
comment went way over the edge, boy, some posters just have no boundaries. I didn't think the conversation could stray any more but I was once again, wrong wrong wrong. I'm sure your right about it. Positive. Joe for President of the mental fitness club. :)

[Will Lavender]

I told you I give, but now that "Maybe you've never played sports."

Heck, I don't know. A lot of folks never have. It's not a high crime, nor does it make one an expert if he did play. I, for instance, rarely got off the bench. :shrug1:

I was simply pointing out the fact that folks who've never played sports might not believe in confidence. And that might not even matter: I had a coach in high school who said, "I don't believe in confidence." Exact quote.

I really believe confidence and mental toughness are almost as important as fundamental skill and raw talent. Really, I do.

[matt colvin]

I really believe confidence and mental toughness are almost as important as fundamental skill and raw talent. Really, I do.

Potentials won't be realized on a regular basis without confidence and mental toughness. IMO, they're the foundation upon which really good players with big potential can ascend to greatness.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

well that was an interesting conversation between Will and allnet, some good points made by both. What I don't understand is why nobody is really discussing the injuries we had this year which obviously contributed to such things Joe's playing time, role on the team and number of shots. Joe looked good this year....real good. But throw Meeks, Legion, Ramel after the face-plant, and Pat after the fracture on that team and senior Joe would have looked more like junior Joe.

[Will Lavender]

^ Possibly.

But I'm not sure his growth happened just out of necessity. We needed him as a junior as well. He got a whole lot of chances as a junior. And while he had a decent year, he wasn't the go-to player that season as he was this past year.

Obviously some of that is just the maturation a senior goes through. But to me, he looked like a different player. I realize that's a subjective analysis, but the stats back up a pretty marked improvement.

And I'll also say that Meeks and Crawford would've been playing at the same time, so Jodie's injury likely didn't mean anything to Joe. As for Legion--I highly doubt Alex Legion would've stolen any minutes from Joe.

[allnet]

^ Possibly.

Obviously some of that is just the maturation a senior goes through. But to me, he looked like a different player. I realize that's a subjective analysis, but the stats back up a pretty marked improvement.
.

Yes. Thankyou. That is a subjective analysis.

I don't think the stats bear out much of anything supporting your argument. Care to enlighten us as to which stats you are using for your argument, and how they are so indicative of your theory? I will reserve final judgement until I hear your statistical analysis, but frankly, I don't think it will wash. :icon_neutral:

[Will Lavender]

Care to enlighten us as to which stats you are using for your argument, and how they are so indicative of your theory? I will reserve final judgement until I hear your statistical analysis, but frankly, I don't think it will wash. :icon_neutral:

Points. That's pretty much all you could be concerned about with Joe. He never put up tremendous numbers in any other facet of his game; he was asked to be a scorer, and that's what he did. He never rebounded that well or forced steals or charged into passing lanes or fed his teammates. He had a job and he did it well--but he did it better his senior year than he did in any other season. (It's one reason why I think our team won't be devastated to lose him, the fact that he sort of was a black hole in the offense.)

But it was more of a leadership issue, as Matt hints at above. Intangible stuff. You could never really count on Joe. Never. Look at his NCAA Tournament performances before this year. Look at his late-game performances. Why do you think so many UK fans were frustrated with him? Are they all crazy? Obviously many went overboard, but the reason they were frustrated is because Joe never met his potential. This year Gillispie was going to him late and in crunch time, and he was getting it done. That's mental toughness, IMO.

And again, I don't think Joe's game was revolutionized or anything like that. He had essentially the same strengths, the same weaknesses. But I felt comfortable with both him and Ramel at about the midway point of the season; never had that feeling before Gillispie got here.

[allnet]

Points. That's pretty much all you could be concerned about with Joe. He never put up tremendous numbers in any other facet of his game; he was asked to be a scorer, and that's what he did. He never rebounded that well or forced steals or charged into passing lanes or fed his teammates. He had a job and he did it well--but he did it better his senior year than he did in any other season. (It's one reason why I think our team won't be devastated to lose him, the fact that he sort of was a black hole in the offense.)

But it was more of a leadership issue, as Matt hints at above. Intangible stuff. You could never really count on Joe. Never. Look at his NCAA Tournament performances before this year. Look at his late-game performances. Why do you think so many UK fans were frustrated with him? Are they all crazy? Obviously many went overboard, but the reason they were frustrated is because Joe never met his potential. This year Gillispie was going to him late and in crunch time, and he was getting it done. That's mental toughness, IMO.

And again, I don't think Joe's game was revolutionized or anything like that. He had essentially the same strengths, the same weaknesses. But I felt comfortable with both him and Ramel at about the midway point of the season; never had that feeling before Gillispie got here.

Well, it must be late at night. I think the logic circuits are fading. You claim that his statistical category bearing up your tetering argument is POINTS, but then you call him "sort of a black hole in the offense"?

Riiiiiiiiighhht. I looked at the stats and couldn't see much support for your argument either. I guess we both came to the same conclusion on that one. I looked at all those stats and most are pretty much within a flat parameter, or even receded some, no dramatic jump like he had going from his soph to junior season. I think his stats pretty much reassure me that he was the same player he had been. I guess those same stats have been thrown out of your argument now that they were actually examined.

[Will Lavender]

^ There's such a thing as making it easy for others to score points.

Ken Pomeroy called it the Carl Krauser Syndrome. The ball would sometimes die with Joe, much like it dies with some big men when you toss it on the block. That's what I mean by "black hole."

Anyway. Easy way to end this argument is to go to the source. Find out what Joe and Ramel believe about Gillispie. It's out there on the Googles.

[matt colvin]

allnet, I've never stated the stats could back up my argument. Simply stated that it was pretty obvious if you watched the games. If you watched the games, you'd be hard pressed to not see some pretty dramatic differences in late junior year Joe and late senior year Joe.

If you can't see those now, fresh off of the season, you never will. Sorry that you missed out on it.

[allnet]

^ There's such a thing as making it easy for others to score points.

Ken Pomeroy called it the Carl Krauser Syndrome. The ball would sometimes die with Joe, much like it dies with some big men when you toss it on the block. That's what I mean by "black hole."

Anyway. Easy way to end this argument is to go to the source. Find out what Joe and Ramel believe about Gillispie. It's out there on the Googles.

I am tired of pointing out the obvious here, but if the ballplayers, coaches and pundits actually knew what was true and what was best for any player, team or program,

WHY ON EARTH WOULD WE NEED ALL THESE CHATBOARDS TO ANALYZE AND SUGGEST BETTER PATHS FOR THE SAME???

Are you trying to put us out of a job Will???

Go to the source, mutter sputter........like they would know anything???!!!:icon_rolleyes:

[bret1555]

Hey Joe!!! Congrats. lol

As to the healthy discourse, I think you guys could definitely use me as a arbiter, here. haha. After all, I don't think you will find a bigger Joe fan on this board than me (perhaps UKHoov).

I think that Will's points about Joe's confidence and toughness are spot one. . . He seemed to have more unshakeable confidence. I agree that the "attitude" people saddled him with his first three years was mostly about his confidence, or lack thereof. However, I have to disagree with the point that Joe didn't hit big shots as a Jr. He did, he just didn't do it consistently -- again, a confidence issue, I am sure.

At the same time, I agree with Allnet that too many UK fans have been too down on Joe from the moment he thought about transferring. I also agree that the idea that Joe and Ramel "bought in" to G's system has been overblown. . . It seems the fact that Coach "bought in" to his seniors is often underplayed.

I ultimately agree with many of the other posters: JOE got drafted. Though G, Tubby, his parents, all get credit. . . JOE did this.

[Duke_1fan]

I'd like to say congrats to Mr.Crawford also he gave all he had in your guys game against marquette.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

I'd like to say congrats to Mr.Crawford also he gave all he had in your guys game against marquette.
dude you're way too nice to be a duke fan....
what's going on here??

[Duke_1fan]

dude you're way too nice to be a duke fan....
what's going on here??
I try :big_grin: No I didn't come here to talk smack I just wanted to to discuss basketball.

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

I try :big_grin: No I didn't come here to talk smack I just wanted to to discuss basketball.
well OK but I must admit that your avatar is really bothering me. there's something about that blue satan that just makes me want to ralph.

[Duke_1fan]

:cool::cool:well OK but I must admit that your avatar is really bothering me. there's something about that blue satan that just makes me want to ralph.
Well, lol I dont plan to change It any time soon. :cool: I know their some hard feelings you being a UK fan and all I can understand why.

[Blue 24/7]

well OK but I must admit that your avatar is really bothering me. there's something about that blue satan that just makes me want to ralph.

Me too brother. I'm having a friggin flashback everytime I see that thing! I'm all for open doors and southern hospitality but no way that avatar should be allowed on this site!!!

[ukwebfan]

I know their some hard feelings you being a UK fan and all I can understand why.
Should I remind you that we've beaten dUKe in the NCAA tournament 3 times and have an overall record of 11-8 against your privileged boys?

[Bluesong]

well OK but I must admit that your avatar is really bothering me. there's something about that blue satan that just makes me want to ralph.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x100/Bluesong_55/Smash.gif

That's better!

CONGRATS JOE!!