lyons tackle

[scathendo]

just curious...

maybe i was just furious....

but i watched that play and replay and replay and everytime i saw a horsecollar tackle.

is it not a horsecollar tackle when you reach inside the neck of the jersey from behind, grab the pads and pull a player backwards risking back and knee inury?

not only was this a play that may have ended the college career of our best receiver and jeopardized his NFL chance, but if it was a horsecollar that would have made it first and goal instead of the fieldgoal that was blocked and returned for the SC TD. i know ....what might have been... but that's at least the 4th or 5th missed horsecollar call i've seen in our games alone.

[MojoCat21]

At first I felt like it might have been too, but I don't think it was after watching it a couple more times. His hand was near the inside of the back of the jersey, but it looked like his other hand was legit and I think it might have just been the momentum of how they were falling (with Lyons' leg underneath).

[scathendo]

i've been checking the newsites to see if i can find any video. so far no luck. if anyone could find it i would like to take another look at it. not to be morbid - i just want to see if i see it differently now that i've calmed down a bit.

[Matt Dillon]

i've been checking the newsites to see if i can find any video. so far no luck. if anyone could find it i would like to take another look at it. not to be morbid - i just want to see if i see it differently now that i've calmed down a bit.

To me, this pic seems to clearly show the So. Car. player's right arm is around Dicky's waist and his left hand is outside the jersey.

http://www.kentucky.com/kentuckysports/

[billoliver40]

I watched the play and the slo mo replay...but just once.

Don't think it was a dirty play, or even a terribly rough play. Kinda like what happened with Bush at the Louisville game a couple years ago and WW.

Dicky was going for broke, the defensive player was doing what he could to tackle. I really didn't think it was anything intentional or meant to injure.

Just one of those real unfortunate football things.

[scathendo]

i agree that in that pic it's not a horsecollar. but in that pic, at least the one i see in the link, it's locke that running not lyons. i'd still like to see the replay they showed on the live broadcast.

to be clear i don't think the player intended to be dirty or hurt lyons. before this year it was a legal tackle. this year it's not because of the risk of injury but so far the enforcement of the new rule has been spotty at best.

[catman4life]

Take a look at the pic on Matt Jones' blog. It seems obvious that his hand is inside Dicky's pads.

[scathendo]

http://blog.kentuckysportsradio.com/wp-content/uploads//2008/10/dickyhurt.jpg

i think this is the pic your talking about. i'd like to see the video right before the pic was taken...that's when the tackler reached up from behind and appeared to grab the back of the pads at the collar.

[Radiated]

I never thought it looked like a bad tackle. you could hear Lyons scream as it happened. I watched it several times on replay, and it was to me a clean tackle.

With the injuries that are stacking up, maybe we need to move to flag football. :p

[catman4life]

yep, that's the one. IMO it seems like his hand is coming out of Dicky's pads there.

[biglabcatdaddy]

This was clearly a horsecollar tackle. I don't think it was intentional or dirty, just one of those things that happens when you're trying to make a play. Both players were giving maximum effort. The officials may not have been in position to see and make the call. The result of this play is a clear example of why this type of tackle has been outlawed. I fear that DL may be finished and it's very tragic and sad. Great kid got a tuff break!

[gerntz]

How he was tackled on the back to me doesn't have anything to do with how his knee twisted. Bad deal on injury for Jr and his dedicated family. My guess is they're hurting worse than he is. As for the team's impact, injuries happen & we have to move on as we did with Micah & Randall & Ricky & Justin.

[leroybyrd]

No doubt it was a horsecollar tackle and as bi daddy said above, it is a clear picture of why this play is dangerous and outlawed. The momentum of the tackle is straight downward and the feet and legs cannot clear themselves as they can on a normal forward/backward momentum tackle.

I don't think they are dirty plays, but very dangerous nevertheless. I think most guys are just trying to make a tackle, but it is not being called in college or the pros like I thought it would be this year. I see it all the time with no call.

[lighthouse]

http://blog.kentuckysportsradio.com/wp-content/uploads//2008/10/dickyhurt.jpg

i think this is the pic your talking about. i'd like to see the video right before the pic was taken...that's when the tackler reached up from behind and appeared to grab the back of the pads at the collar.

That's a great picture of the tackle/injury. The defenders hand was inside the pads, but at no time did he use that leferage in the tackle. I have the game on my DVR, and anyone in Louisville is welcome to watch it.

[leroybyrd]

That's a great picture of the tackle/injury. The defenders hand was inside the pads, but at not time did he use that leferage in the tackle. I have the game on my DVR, and anyone in Louisville is welcome to watch it.

Your take does not seem to square with the laws of physics. The picture is clear evidence of that.

If both guys are running forward, the only way to end up like the picture is to use the horsecollar tackle. The defender grabs the offensive player by the back of the shoulder pads and drops all of his weight (leverage)straight down.

Now look at the picture. Clearly the USC defender has his hand in Dicky's shoulder pads and has dropped his weight straight down bringing Dicky to a sudden downward stop, rendering him unable to clear his legs and feet.

I know what I saw and it is a horsecollar tackle.

[hale]

I was all the way at the other end zone when that play happened and thought it was a horse collar tackle.

That rule doesn't seem to be enforced in Commonwealth Stadium.

[UKBOO]

It was a horse collar tackle and the result is why it is a penalty. There is only two ways to pull Lyons backward from the top and I do not see an arm around the neck. The guy had his hands in the pads and pulled Lyons backward. I've seen it 15 times and he does it all 15.

I don't think the guy meant to hurt anyone but they have GOT to start calling this or guys will keep on doing it. We've seen six of these now in UK games that have not been called and one was by a UK player.

[lighthouse]

We will just have to agree to disagree. :)

[Radiated]

Players are prohibited
from grabbing the inside
back collar of the shoulder
pads or jersey, or the inside
collar of the side of the
shoulder pads or jersey, and
immediately pulling the
runner down. The horse
collar is considered a
personal foul. The penalty is
15 yards and an automatic
first down if the first down is
not in conflict with other
rule. Note that the rule does
not apply to a runner who is
inside the tackle box or to a
quarterback who is in the
pocket.

I've only seen this called maybe twice all season. Andwith those, the player was pulled down by the pads.

This looked like a tackle. The hands might have been under, but I don't think that is how he was going down.

[scathendo]

can anybody provide a video link? i've looked at the game highlights from all of the usual media sources and not one has thought it worth showing the play where we might have lost our most proven playmaker for the season???

[kateyes]

It looked like a horsecollar tackle to me. Maybe not textbook, but it was enough of one to do the damage. Whether it was dirty or not means nothing. The guy still did it.

It probably doesn't help that they are just now outlawing this tackle. Hard to break habits that have been taught for years, but that habit is why it should be enforced even if it looks remotely like a hc tackle to break them of it. There are no incidental face mask penalties anymore. One touches the face mask and the 15 yarder is enforced. Shouldn't be a difference.

[Sam K.]

Sure looked like a horse collar to me.

[kygirl]

I was screaming at the TV that it was a horse collar. I do not think the SC player was trying to hurt Dicky or playing dirty, he was just trying to stop him, but it was clearly a horse collar. This is a clear reason for the ruling, this kind of tackle is just to risky.

It really frustrates me when they change/make a rule and then don't call it. Would a flag on this changed the out come of the game, probably not..........well, maybe...... since it lead to the blocked FG that SC scored on.

The thing is we can what if all we want, it does not change anything. Dicky is still out, his UK football is over and we are still 0-2 in the SEC.

[gerntz]

Has Brooks called it a horse collar?

[lighthouse]

Has Brooks called it a horse collar?

Not to my knowledge.

[poodoo]

Has Brooks called it a horse collar?

Coach Brooks said that it was certainly very close to a horse collar, but that he did not think it was actually a horse collar.

[bleedbluelady]

Coach Brooks said that it was certainly very close to a horse collar, but that he did not think it was actually a horse collar.

Heard that on the call in show. He also said even if it was called it would just be a 15 yard penalty and Dicky would still be out for the season. :icon_sad:

[lighthouse]

Coach Brooks said that it was certainly very close to a horse collar, but that he did not think it was actually a horse collar.

And if everyone could watch the film, they would see why he said that.

[RV]

Brooks was asked about it and said something like. I don't think it was a horsecollar but if they had called it one we would have gotten 15 yards and Dicky would have been just as injured.

[poodoo]

Heard that on the call in show. He also said even if it was called it would just be a 15 yard penalty and Dicky would still be out for the season. :icon_sad:

Exactly, bleedbluelady. Too, same reaction here when I had heard him add that last comment. :icon_sad:

[leroybyrd]

But if the defender had NOT used the horsecollar play, Dicky would NOT be out for the season.

Also, Brooks' statement is too simplistic. If they would start calling the horsecollar penalty, then maybe less guys would use it, and less players would be injured as a result of it.

[UKBOO]

Brooks can say what he likes, and we all can have our own opinions on it. But that was a classic horse collar in my book and the result was the very reason it is now a penalty.
While it may be true that calling THIS penalty would not bring back Lyons, if all the others we've seen had been called, maybe players would be less likely to do it and it would have never happened in the first place.

Rules do not do squat if you don't enforce them.

[UKBOO]

On the same page, leroybyrd.. LOL Had mine pulled up in "edit" for a while..

[scathendo]

i understand that calling the penalty would not bring back lyons. i also agree that the new rule has not been called with any consistency and that had it been actually enforced up to this point it might have at least been emphasized a bit more coming into this game.

but would it have not also have given us a first and goal rather than a fourth and goal? and didn't we get that field goal blocked for a 10-14 point swing?

i emphasize before i get jumped on....i know the injury to lyons is a bigger deal than who wins or loses a football game. but as the coaches and players have said 'injuries happen - there is still a game to be played.'