Tubby and Minn with a top 25 Class

[chworld22]

NOTE: I am not bashing Tubby or nor do I want this to turn into a Tubby bashing thread. If it does Mods you can shut it down immediately.

I am just curious how he does that at MINN two straight years but had trouble doing it here for two straight years. Is it perception or is MINN an easier sell right now?

I really have no opinion but I thought I would put the question out there maybe you guys can give me a good idea.

[UFGrant]

NOTE: I am not bashing Tubby or nor do I want this to turn into a Tubby bashing thread. If it does Mods you can shut it down immediately.

These alerts never work when it comes to Tubby.

Could it be because of laziness and complacency? :shrug1:

It's the only thing I can think of.

[chworld22]

These alerts never work when it comes to Tubby.

Could it be because of laziness and complacency? :shrug1:

It's the only thing I can think of.

I know but it was worth a try.

I thought of those two maybe he thought they would just drop in his lap being he was at UK. Good thought!

[Will Lavender]

Did Tubby go for two straight years without landing a top 25 class? Serious question. I know the Perry/Sheray/Woo/Shagari class wasn't; I know the Jared Carter/Rekalin Sims class wasn't. Those two weren't back to back, though.

To answer the question, I think Minnesota basketball is played at a bit higher level than Kentucky high school basketball. (That's overall; I doubt there are many players in Minnesota the caliber of a Jon Hood or a Darius Miller.) I also think Tubby has a better staff in Minnesota than he did here. Sutton and Finney were very solid, but when they left we were stuck with Reggie and Rigot. Those two, God bless 'em, struggled. (To put it mildly.)

[billoliver40]

always seemed strange....
OTS had teams at Tulsa and Georgia that played belly-button d, ran the floor and shot the three.

At Minnesota, he's getting the rep for playing belly-button d, running the floor and shooting the three.

I don't know...maybe the pressure at UK was causing Tubby to subconsciously play not to lose instead of to win.

[Coldstream]

always seemed strange....
OTS had teams at Tulsa and Georgia that played belly-button d, ran the floor and shot the three.

At Minnesota, he's getting the rep for playing belly-button d, running the floor and shooting the three.

I don't know...maybe the pressure at UK was causing Tubby to subconsciously play not to lose instead of to win.
I think it is part of what Will said above your post; couple with my opinion that Tubby was too loyal (or stubborn) to make changes on his staff.

[UFGrant]

Tubs teams in the middle years were great. (teams that he basically fully recruited)

They were some of my all-time favorites.

For whatever reason he didn't have the same work ethic towards the end and it showed on the court. Its beginning to look more and more like he needed a change of scenary to get refocused.

Do what you do Mr. Smith. We ain't mad at 'cha.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Did Tubby go for two straight years without landing a top 25 class? Serious question. I know the Perry/Sheray/Woo/Shagari class wasn't; I know the Jared Carter/Rekalin Sims class wasn't. Those two weren't back to back, though.

To answer the question, I think Minnesota basketball is played at a bit higher level than Kentucky high school basketball. (That's overall; I doubt there are many players in Minnesota the caliber of a Jon Hood or a Darius Miller.) I also think Tubby has a better staff in Minnesota than he did here. Sutton and Finney were very solid, but when they left we were stuck with Reggie and Rigot. Those two, God bless 'em, struggled. (To put it mildly.)
nice post Will....I agree about Tubby having a better staff at Minnesota..whatever he is doing I am happy is doing well up there....

[bigblue23]

It's a good class for UM, but would be considered a sucky recruiting class for UK.

[crazzedcats22]

First off, good for Tubby and Minnesota, I wish him nothing but the best.

I really think it's a combination of everything pointed out above. I think Tubby got a little lazy after winning the national title his first year. I think he felt players would just come to him since it was UK and they won the title. After a year or two of that not working, he starts recruiting and working his butt off again and he gets the teams from 01-04 that had a ton of success. Then I think he fell back into his complacent pattern again.

Pair that with transfers, guys going to the NBA early, bad assistant coaches and you can see why UK was "struggling" the past few years.

I think now he realizes his mistakes and has corrected tham and also realizes that he has to work 2, 5, 10 whatever times harder to get guys at Minnesota then he did at UK.

[wanderingcat]

No one knows how it will play out, but if you get a run of top twenty five ecruiting years versus top ten or top fifteen who comes out on top? If you want to be a top twenty five school that is one thing, a top ten school is different. So I am not concerned about Minnesota or any other team being in the top twenty five. In fact, if at seasons end you end up being ranked between 25 and whatever you end up at Minnesota.

[SWFLACAT]

It will not take long until a few of the STAR players go there and their game doesn't improve much by the time they leave, and others will not want to go that road. Not a bash, but for the length of time Tubby was here I cant recall but a handful of players that made noticable improvements in their Basketball IQ or fundamentals.

I hope he proves me wrong because I never had but the highest respect for Tubby the man, but wasn't that impressed with Tubby the coach.

[boomdaddy]

I blame it on a sub par coaching staff and the fact that the Tubster wouldn't kick them out the door. He got a brand new staff at Minn and now he is doing better and he has less pressure because he isn't expected to win as many games. Coincidence? I think not.

[WildcatRick]

I never had but the highest respect for Tubby the man, but wasn't that impressed with Tubby the coach.

EXACTLY!!! Couldnt agree more!!! I just plain dont care what he does at Minnesota, period. He is a former UK Coach, therefore I have no interests in his recruiting classes or anything else he does. But, gotta keep moderating these threads since they do go downhill so qiuckly.

Some good points made thus far.

[chworld22]

Did Tubby go for two straight years without landing a top 25 class? Serious question. I know the Perry/Sheray/Woo/Shagari class wasn't; I know the Jared Carter/Rekalin Sims class wasn't. Those two weren't back to back, though.

To answer the question, I think Minnesota basketball is played at a bit higher level than Kentucky high school basketball. (That's overall; I doubt there are many players in Minnesota the caliber of a Jon Hood or a Darius Miller.) I also think Tubby has a better staff in Minnesota than he did here. Sutton and Finney were very solid, but when they left we were stuck with Reggie and Rigot. Those two, God bless 'em, struggled. (To put it mildly.)

That is a good thought about the overall level being higher so he is getting a better mid range player with one big recruit that can sky rocket you into a top 25.

[chworld22]

I am glad that everyone has kept everything on the subject because as Rick said these threads have a tendency to go downhill. I just thought it was an interesting question.

[chworld22]

I blame it on a sub par coaching staff and the fact that the Tubster wouldn't kick them out the door. He got a brand new staff at Minn and now he is doing better and he has less pressure because he isn't expected to win as many games. Coincidence? I think not.

We heard for years that the asst coachs were the problem and Tubby just didn't have it in him to fire somebody. Now he has a new staff could be that all that was true and not just an excuse.

[Will Lavender]

I really think it's a combination of everything pointed out above. I think Tubby got a little lazy after winning the national title his first year.

I don't know if it was laziness or what, but the pool of possible UK signees shrunk dramatically as the years went on. And then we signed the Perry/Thomas/Woo/Alleyne class, and that was the beginning of the end for UK as an elite program.

It might have been laziness, but I think it had more to do with (a) the perception (spread by opposing coaches) that Tubby was running a slugfest system where you wouldn't be able to showcase your skills, and (b) I just don't think Tubby would coddle to these superstars the way you have to. I heard him say in person once that he hated it when he walked into a living room and a recruit admitted that he didn't know what he wanted to do in life. Tubby, like Bob Knight two decades earlier, wouldn't play the game.

By the end, thanks in part to Rigot and Hanson, our pipelines had dried up and we had such a miniscule range of recruiting targets. I mean John Wall, the #1 point guard in '09, wasn't contacted at all by Tubby Smith. Everything that has been done at UK re: Wall was done by Billy Gillispie. I'd say you could say the same for a ton of '08s and '09s, and that was the problem. We just weren't in with a lot of these kids, and eventually we began to slip right off the map of the college basketball world.

[Gunsmoke]

I think after the glamor wore off Tubby focused in on only a few players and when he lost them he was left scrambling for who was left in the spring. He also was too loyal to his assistants and needed to bring in fresher talent in those positions. I think the program became stagnant under Tubby for the last 3 or more years and he did not change approach whatsoever. Aside from that, I liked the man away from the court and wish him and his family nothing but the best.

[billoliver40]

After thinking on a lot of the posts, I'll pretty much go along with Will's early post. I think Minnesota probably has OVERALL more high school talents than UK. More population, more kids. Also not the competition within the state (such as UK v Louisville) for the in-state kids.

Kinda ironic, isn't it...most years a lot of us yell that UK needs more local kids...more kids that grew up in the coal fields or farmlands dreaming of the chance to play UK ball. Heck with all this outta state stuff....
until somebody like Daniel Orton or Patrick Patterson show interest, that is.:shrug1:

I guess Rick Pitino was right...he got frustrated with some of the 'Kentucky kids' questions and finally said if the players came to your school, put on your uniform and stayed three or four years, then they're Kentucky Kids.

Anyway....I think Tubby will do well in Minnesota. I hope we meet up with him in the NCAAs sometimes in the next few years. I bet the broadcasters do too.:icon_biggrin:

[Will Lavender]

After thinking on a lot of the posts, I'll pretty much go along with Will's early post. I think Minnesota probably has OVERALL more high school talents than UK. More population, more kids. Also not the competition within the state (such as UK v Louisville) for the in-state kids.

Kinda ironic, isn't it...most years a lot of us yell that UK needs more local kids...more kids that grew up in the coal fields or farmlands dreaming of the chance to play UK ball. Heck with all this outta state stuff....
until somebody like Daniel Orton or Patrick Patterson show interest, that is.:shrug1:

I guess Rick Pitino was right...he got frustrated with some of the 'Kentucky kids' questions and finally said if the players came to your school, put on your uniform and stayed three or four years, then they're Kentucky Kids.

Anyway....I think Tubby will do well in Minnesota. I hope we meet up with him in the NCAAs sometimes in the next few years. I bet the broadcasters do too.:icon_biggrin:

A question I have has always been this:

How exactly did Kentucky high school basketball get so poor? KENTUCKY high school basketball? Makes no sense at all.

We've gone through a streak here where many of the Mr. Basketballs have been woefully unrecruited by elite basketball programs. That's a problem, especially when you look at places like Michigan and California and see how the rise of programs like UCLA and MSU have risen in direct correlation with that high school talent.

I'm hoping Gillispie (and, yes, Pitino) energizes the athletes and coaches in this state and maybe helps turn this thing around. A place the size of Louisville, for example, has had so few good high school basketball players over the past 20 years that it's almost shocking.

[billoliver40]

Will, that's a real good question. Wish I had an answer.
The Mr Basketball award has gone through cycles where it is more political than actual. Too, some of the winners, while good kids, were not what I thought was major D-1 talent...Josh Carrier, for one.

The University itself caused some of this. Large parts of the state have a history of being under-recruited by both in-state major schools, and so interest declines. I guarantee basketball fever is gripping the Madisonville area right now. Many in-state kids of the past have ended up in Tennessee...Austin Peay, Vandy, UT.

I agree, though...if CBG can get the enthusiasm going at Rupp the way it was headed last season, it will energize the whole state. Can't do anything but help.

[Wildcat Larry]

I am just curious how he does that at MINN two straight years but had trouble doing it here for two straight years. Is it perception or is MINN an easier sell right now?

I didn't read all of the responses (yeah, I'm lazy), but I think some of it might be that he has a completely different assistant coaching staff. I never was sold on the assistants he had here at Kentucky.

[poodoo]

I think it had more to do with (a) the perception (spread by opposing coaches) that Tubby was running a slugfest system where you wouldn't be able to showcase your skills, and (b) I just don't think Tubby would coddle to these superstars the way you have to. I heard him say in person once that he hated it when he walked into a living room and a recruit admitted that he didn't know what he wanted to do in life. Tubby, like Bob Knight two decades earlier, wouldn't play the game.



I had not intended to respond at all on this thread (and how nice it is that everyone is just responding OBJECTIVELY, merely answering the question asked), BUT this post had caught my attention, as I agree with both points. Also, most specifically in regard to possible differences in recruiting successes at Minnesota, we do tend to remember the later more unsuccessful years (and understandably so because of the last two unsuccessful seasons), rather than the number one class in the nation, etc., AND I just so agree that our former coach was TOO loyal to his assistants and that his having different ones makes a difference for him as he recruits at a place without our tradition.

I also so agree with Gunsmoke's point that he and his staff had focused on a few players and then had sometimes been "left with leftovers" (no pun intended :icon_mrgreen:) in the spring. Again, in particular, I say that Roy Williams at UNC "killed" us in regard to those few players, top power forwards, each of which would have made a HUGE difference in regard to our class ranking, and, more importantly, to our performance on the court.

Most of all, though, back to recruiting here at Kentucky, which is all that really matters, there's NO DOUBT that our current coach puts TREMENDOUS EFFORT into recruiting. We are most fortunate in that regard, in my humble opinion. :) GO CATS! GO COACH G!