Great Coaching v. Great Recruiting

[HozeKing]

It is interesting how often we hear how great a recruiter is and how awesome an X and O coach he is as well. Unfortunately a coach can't be both starting out as UK has this year.

I think Billy has failed as a recruiter. A good coach doesn't stock up on All-Americans alon w/o looking at his team's needs. He has to recruit to get a good balance. We often hear how they don't have a point guard...right, they don't. But it is more than that....they have no 3-pt shooter besides Meeks. They will find it difficult to come back when they are losing a game by a high margin...you need shooters to claw back from an in-game deficit.

Until Billy recruits better, he can do all the coaching he wants, but it won't work.

[Will Lavender]

Way, way, way too simplistic of an argument.

This, for example:

It is interesting how often we hear how great a recruiter is and how awesome an X and O coach he is as well. Unfortunately a coach can't be both starting out as UK has this year.

You don't have to "be both" or "be neither." You can be a little of both and a little of neither. And because Gillispie is playing so many players he inherited, the jury is still out on what sort of recruiter he can be. No coach in America is going to "stock up on all-Americans" in the short time Gillispie has had at Kentucky.

And second, you've given the recruits Gillispie brought in this year two games. Two games! If you know exactly how Liggins and Miller and Harrellson are going to play this year (let alone on down the road in their careers), then I want your crystal ball.

I'll say it again: the coaching has been bizarre, but no one can make any sort of valid criticism about Gillispie's recruiting, especially in light of the fact that to date he's pulled in six top 30 players spread out over four recruiting classes, and that's not to mention players like Matt Pilgrim. Until he's got his own assortment of players, then it's not valid. He's recruited for one small piece of a recruiting session and one full year. That's no time at all, especially given the situation Tubby Smith left him in.

And why in the world is this on the smack board? Talking smack about your own coach?

[surveyor]

And why in the world is this on the smack board? Talking smack about your own coach?

Viewing the profile picture indicates he's a Cardinal fan.

However, even THAT said, it should be on the football board, as it's absent cartoonish, hyperbolic accusations using arguments levied by fans of both sides that make this forum so comical.:icon_lol:

[Will Lavender]

^ I had no idea.

Explains it. I've heard a ton of arguments, but I've never heard the "Billy Gillispie can't recruit" line.

Bowing out of this discussion now...

[TrueblueCATfan]

It is interesting how often we hear how great a recruiter is and how awesome an X and O coach he is as well. Unfortunately a coach can't be both starting out as UK has this year.

I think Billy has failed as a recruiter. A good coach doesn't stock up on All-Americans alon w/o looking at his team's needs. He has to recruit to get a good balance. We often hear how they don't have a point guard...right, they don't. But it is more than that....they have no 3-pt shooter besides Meeks. They will find it difficult to come back when they are losing a game by a high margin...you need shooters to claw back from an in-game deficit.

Until Billy recruits better, he can do all the coaching he wants, but it won't work.


HE has a top 10 class coming in next year:icon_rolleyes:

[Will Lavender]

Bowing in...

HE has a top 10 class coming in next year:icon_rolleyes:

And undoubtedly the year after, with the Dominique Ferguson class.

You start to pile them up successively, and that's the way you build a program. But it's VERY tough to jump right in and put together top 10 classes. Chris Singleton, for instance, would've put the '08 class well into the top 10, but Gillispie had very little time to go after him. Kentucky is trying to make a name for itself again.

As for shooters:

This team isn't going to be a great shooting team, but Gillispie did go hard after Rotenei Clarke, who would've been a very good get. But again: Gillispie had to recruit Clarke in a relatively short period of time because Kentucky was not on that kid before Gillispie got here.

It's tough to make up that much ground that quickly.

[BigBlue75]

And why in the world is this on the smack board? Talking smack about your own coach?

I read Surveyor's post and that explains it. He's just a phony, plain and simple. He knew he had to pretend to be a UK fan and keep his comments somewhat civil or he would have been shouted down.

At least 4thecards, Yuleofell, CardRBest, and the other Louisville fans that post here regularly are mature enough to be open and forthright about their loyalties. For him to come on here and hide under the guise of being a UK fan is an insult to both programs and to the Louisville fans, especially.

[TrueblueCATfan]

I read Surveyor's post and that explains it. He's just a phony, plain and simple. He knew he had to pretend to be a UK fan and keep his comments somewhat civil or he would have been shouted down.

At least 4thecards, Yuleofell, CardRBest, and the other Louisville fans that post here regularly are mature enough to be open and forthright about their loyalties. For him to come on here and hide under the guise of being a UK fan is an insult to both programs and to the Louisville fans, especially.


YEP..a fly in every now and then Birdie fan..........:icon_rolleyes:

[BigBlue75]

Viewing the profile picture indicates he's a Cardinal fan.

However, even THAT said, it should be on the football board, as it's absent cartoonish, hyperbolic accusations using arguments levied by fans of both sides that make this forum so comical.:icon_lol:

What's with all the $1.25 words? (kidding) ;):icon_mrgreen:

[surveyor]

Hey!
I'll have you know that "hyperbolic" came out of my $4 thesaurus.

"Cartoonish" came from the $1.25 one....................:icon_lol:

[lighthouse]

Don't worry about this fool, he won't be back. Not even worth discussion.

[HozeKing]

...its all based on the total talent of the players....it doesn't take into account the 'balance' of the class or if the players fill in the team's holes. I maintain that Billy has not looked at where he needs help. He hasn't successfully recruited a point guard and he has failed in finding shooters.

Look at it this way....I give him more credit as a coach. There has to be an explanation on why the team has started out so incredibly poorly:

1. Lack of talent....I don't think so, given the grade of the two classes.
2. Lack of coaching...I personnally don't think this is the case.
3. Lack of effort....no way.
4. Lack of balance on the team....ding, ding, ding...come on down.

If you don't like these reasons, feel welcomed to offer your own. What you can't argue is that the team has looked bad...really bad.

[BigBlue75]

Your profile has this attached as an avatar:

http://www.wildcatnation.net/forum/image.php?u=5027&dateline=1227112728&type=profile

You're a Cardinal fan posing as a UK fan and all you're trying to do is stir up trouble by bad mouthing our coach. You would have done better if you had just admitted where your loyalties really were instead of trying to fool everyone.

and with that, I'm done making any further comments on this thread.

[TrueblueCATfan]

...its all based on the total talent of the players....it doesn't take into account the 'balance' of the class or if the players fill in the team's holes. I maintain that Billy has not looked at where he needs help. He hasn't successfully recruited a point guard and he has failed in finding shooters.

Look at it this way....I give him more credit as a coach. There has to be an explanation on why the team has started out so incredibly poorly:

1. Lack of talent....I don't think so, given the grade of the two classes.
2. Lack of coaching...I personnally don't think this is the case.
3. Lack of effort....no way.
4. Lack of balance on the team....ding, ding, ding...come on down.

If you don't like these reasons, feel welcomed to offer your own. What you can't argue is that the team has looked bad...really bad.

funny our class next season is ranked higher than Loserville
and how any times now as the almighty Pitino had great recruits at Loserville and he still can't do anything......that is because you have Boston rick
Quit posing as a UK fan..

[HozeKing]

funny our class next season is ranked higher than Loserville
and how any times now as the almighty Pitino had great recruits at Loserville and he still can't do anything......that is because you have Boston rick
Quit posing as a UK fan..

Yawn....Pitino = Final 8 last year and ranked #3 right now....but that is beside the point. So if your point is that Gillispie is a great recruiter the failure must lie in the coaching.

Where do you get the idea I am posting as a UK fan? I am a proud graduate of UofL '79. I like basketball. I root for the Cards and also follow the Cats...so what? Isn't this the Rivalry and Ribbing section?

Why do YOU think the Cats have started so poorly? Try your detective work on that mystery and get back to us.

[John Clay Rice Jr.]

Yawn....Pitino = Final 8 last year and ranked #3 right now....but that is beside the point. So if your point is that Gillispie is a great recruiter the failure must lie in the coaching.

Where do you get the idea I am posting as a UK fan? I am a proud graduate of UofL '79. I like basketball. I root for the Cards and also follow the Cats...so what? Isn't this the Rivalry and Ribbing section?

Why do YOU think the Cats have started so poorly? Try your detective work on that mystery and get back to us.
Final Four yes but no ring. And the reason they went to Final Four caus they had the weakest bracket of any of those Final Four Particaments.

[Radiated]

It is interesting how often we hear how great a recruiter is and how awesome an X and O coach he is as well. Unfortunately a coach can't be both starting out as UK has this year.

I think Billy has failed as a recruiter. A good coach doesn't stock up on All-Americans alon w/o looking at his team's needs. He has to recruit to get a good balance. We often hear how they don't have a point guard...right, they don't. But it is more than that....they have no 3-pt shooter besides Meeks. They will find it difficult to come back when they are losing a game by a high margin...you need shooters to claw back from an in-game deficit.

Until Billy recruits better, he can do all the coaching he wants, but it won't work.

How can you say that he has failed as a recruiter? How long did he have to recruit for this years soph class?

And if you can say that any of these freshmen are either failures or all americans then you are either a. nuts b. on crack c. both. It's been 2 games.

These freshmen that are 2 games into their career are the only ones that BCG truely recruited.

X's and O's you might have an argument. He hasn't proved to me a whole lot with ingame adjustment. But playing with Tubby's guys, I'm not going to hang him yet.

[chworld22]

Yawn....Pitino = Final 8 last year and ranked #3 right now....but that is beside the point. So if your point is that Gillispie is a great recruiter the failure must lie in the coaching.

Where do you get the idea I am posting as a UK fan? I am a proud graduate of UofL '79. I like basketball. I root for the Cards and also follow the Cats...so what? Isn't this the Rivalry and Ribbing section?

Why do YOU think the Cats have started so poorly? Try your detective work on that mystery and get back to us.

What did Pitino do in his first two seasons at UL? Thats right NOTHING!! He went to a NIT and no tournament at all. Was he a poor coach or a poor recruiter? No he just didn't have his players and system in place yet and that is the same here. So take that and run with it. I hate when UL fans come on here and talk trash about our coach like he is crap and treat Pitino like he is a god for his two final fours and not much else in his long tenure at UL.

Really take a look in the mirror then come criticize our team and our coach. Not to mention that Pitino has had a few top classes in the past four or so years and how many titles does he have to show for it? Thats right none! Does that mean he is a poor coach. No but I do think that he isn't the coach he use to be but UL fans are so excited about having something to rib UK fans over they really don't care about production more about the illusion of production. I wonder what the spin master will blame this year when UL falls short of expectations. Maybe injuries or maybe he will pick out a player to make an example of (Caracter) so when things fall apart everyone can point to him as the scapegoat.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Yawn....Pitino = Final 8 last year and ranked #3 right now....but that is beside the point. So if your point is that Gillispie is a great recruiter the failure must lie in the coaching.

Where do you get the idea I am posting as a UK fan? I am a proud graduate of UofL '79. I like basketball. I root for the Cards and also follow the Cats...so what? Isn't this the Rivalry and Ribbing section?

Why do YOU think the Cats have started so poorly? Try your detective work on that mystery and get back to us.

YAWN........Pitino has 1 championship ring and it ain't from loserville
our top class comes in next year and it is higher than Pitinos
like I said Boston Rick:eek:
In pitino's first 2 years here he went to the nit and did not make any tournament......

[HozeKing]

our top class comes in next year and it is higher than Pitinos
like I said Boston Rick:eek:

Interesting how the UK fan base gets more of a kick on following and touting their recruitment classes. Why is that? Is it caused by some sort of deep rooted insecurity that is caressed by seeing 17 year olds commit?? "See they like us....they really, REALLY like us!"

Most other fans care about results. Silly things like wins.

Oh, I hear that Orton kid can really fill it up from the 3-pt line. Good job, Billy, on filling that big need on the team with a 6'10" jump shooter.

[Will Lavender]

Interesting how the UK fan base gets more of a kick on following and touting their recruitment classes. Why is that? Is it caused by some sort of deep rooted insecurity that is caressed by seeing 17 year olds commit?? "See they like us....they really, REALLY like us!"

Most other fans care about results. Silly things like wins.

Because recruiting IS college basketball.

You do not win in this sport if you don't recruit. How do you think Rick Pitino built those great teams at Kentucky? How do you think he built this year's team at Louisville?

He got out there and he recruited. Hard.

There's a reason why Memphis and Kansas and North Carolina have risen in the last few years so meteorically. Those coaches have recruited. And it isn't all about jump shooters: how many good shooters did Memphis have last year. Not many; maybe not even one. But they were the best team in the country all year because they had phenomenal talent at every position, and that comes from the fact that Calipari is a master recruiter.

[HozeKing]

Because recruiting IS college basketball.

You do not win in this sport if you don't recruit. How do you think Rick Pitino built those great teams at Kentucky? How do you think he built this year's team at Louisville?

He got out there and he recruited. Hard.

There's a reason why Memphis and Kansas and North Carolina have risen in the last few years so meteorically. Those coaches have recruited. And it isn't all about jump shooters: how many good shooters did Memphis have last year. Not many; maybe not even one. But they were the best team in the country all year because they had phenomenal talent at every position, and that comes from the fact that Calipari is a master recruiter.

....Billy needs to recruit BETTER. Before you flip your Big Blue lids allow me to explain:

The BBN gets all excited on where the UK recruitment classes rank. Ranking is only based on how many All-Americans are brought into the class. It doesn't take into consideration the balance of the class or whether or not a particular class fills in 'talent' or position holes on the current team.

This years team is sorely lacking in shooters (as well as point guards but everyone knows that...).

Therefore, this year's team can't be coached to succeed. You can't teach non-shooters to shoot better. You can't coach shooting...you recruit shooting. It will be a long and difficult year.

[HozeKing]

...especially in light of the fact that to date he's pulled in six top 30 players spread out over four recruiting classes, and that's not to mention players like Matt Pilgrim.

...by falling for the mistake of just counting the number of players...not whether or not they 'fit' into the current team. Billy needs to have better balanced recruiting.

[HozeKing]

Final Four yes but no ring. And the reason they went to Final Four caus they had the weakest bracket of any of those Final Four Particaments.

LOL....I have heard of sour grapes before but this takes the cake. :icon_cry:

[Will Lavender]

Therefore, this year's team can't be coached to succeed. You can't teach non-shooters to shoot better. You can't coach shooting...you recruit shooting. It will be a long and difficult year.

Meh.

Really tough point to make after 2 games.

Check back in February and we'll see if it holds up. Two of the players Gillispie brought in this season--Liggins and Miller (and Darius Miller can shoot the basketball)--WILL play major roles on this team. The problem is the guys above them (most of whom were not recruited by Billy Gillispie) haven't given them the proper help they need to adjust; they've been chucked right into the fire. That's tough for freshmen to overcome, just as the guys who are going to play huge roles on Louisville's team this year struggled on that NIT team as freshmen.

I do agree that the recruiting has to be balanced. But again, it seems as if you're talking about a guy who's been here for years. Rick Pitino's recruiting wasn't balanced after year 1 at UofL, either. (Notice how many junior college players Pitino recruited early. Gillispie's done the same. The reason? Both coaches have had to make up for lost time.) Pitino was having to reopen avenues that Denny had closed, just as Gillispie is having to do.

It certainly looks unbalanced now, but the whole team is unbalanced. The guys Tubby recruited are unbalanced. The good players UK does have are unbalanced. The coaching strategy is unbalanced. Bad basketball teams are unbalanced at pretty much every angle, and that's what's happening right now. Goes faaaaaaar beyond Gillispie's ability to recruit.

You're making an argument that would be better served after about six recruiting sessions. Gillispie has had 1 recruiting session and a small part of another one.

Not nearly enough time to make the points you're trying to make.

[HozeKing]

Meh.

Really tough point to make after 2 games.

Check back in February and we'll see if it holds up. It certainly looks unbalanced now, but the whole team is unbalanced. The guys Tubby recruited are unbalanced. The good players UK does have is unbalanced.

You're making an argument that would be better served after about six recruiting sessions. Gillispie has had 1 recruiting session and a small part of another one.

Not nearly enough time to make the points you're trying to make.

...I agree with you. There are reasons that the team is unbalanced for sure...not the least of which Billy has only recruited for two years. I get it. But it doesn't change the fact that it is unbalanced...to your point.

My suggestion based on this fact is that the fan base needs to chill. Billy can't coach out of this current 'mess'. The team is what it is right now. He has to recruit better (read: balance).

I don't mean to come off as critical as I mean to point out what has to be done....and the limitations that it means for this year's team (unless Billy can find a way to recruit mid-year :icon_biggrin:).

[Will Lavender]

My suggestion based on this fact is that the fan base needs to chill. Billy can't coach out of this current 'mess'. The team is what it is right now. He has to recruit better (read: balance).

Absolutely.

Kentucky is in rebuilding mode. No honest Kentucky fan could deny that. We might win some games this year (at our current rate we're not going to win any big games), but we're not in for any spectacular runs through the NCAAs.

It begins with recruiting, which Gillispie has admitted publicly, and which he has set out to do. It's more than a one-year process. We potentially return every single player on this team and add Hood, Vilarino, Orton and Pilgrim (and maybe one more) to next year's. THEN the thing starts coming into focus and we can say that Gillispie is putting his stamp on Kentucky basketball.

Until then, it's a mutt. It's partly his and partly Tubby Smith's. Tough to criticize the architect when the guy wasn't even responsible for planning the foundation of the building.

[HozeKing]

And it isn't all about jump shooters: how many good shooters did Memphis have last year. Not many; maybe not even one. But they were the best team in the country all year because they had phenomenal talent at every position, and that comes from the fact that Calipari is a master recruiter.

...and the fact that Memphis had the best point guard to have played in the college game in the past 10 years. I don't necessarily agree that their shooting was poor...certainly their foul shooting stunk. Think of how many times Rose drove the lane and kicked it back out to a shooter.

Now if you were Jodie and drove the lane, who would you kick it out to??? If I were Jodie, I'd probably go ahead and chuck it up under pressure like he did against UNC....probably still a better chance to score.

[HozeKing]

Absolutely.

We potentially return every single player on this team and add Hood, Vilarino, Orton and Pilgrim (and maybe one more) to next year's.

Maybe....but is it a big enough step? I don't know...isn't Hood the only real shooter in this group? Do you want to rely on this kid? I am always concerned how fast a 'skinny country player' can adapt to big time college ball (I don't want to appear mean here...I married a girl from Henderson).

Maybe Miller can get there by next year and contribute on the perimeter. Certainly Orton was big (no pun intended) with the likely departure of PPat.....

[TrueblueCATfan]

Interesting how the UK fan base gets more of a kick on following and touting their recruitment classes. Why is that? Is it caused by some sort of deep rooted insecurity that is caressed by seeing 17 year olds commit?? "See they like us....they really, REALLY like us!"

Most other fans care about results. Silly things like wins.

Oh, I hear that Orton kid can really fill it up from the 3-pt line. Good job, Billy, on filling that big need on the team with a 6'10" jump shooter.


maybe because you need the recuits to get the results and wins..duh!!!!

[Will Lavender]

Maybe....but is it a big enough step? I don't know...isn't Hood the only real shooter in this group? Do you want to rely on this kid? I am always concerned how fast a 'skinny country player' can adapt to big time college ball (I don't want to appear mean here...I married a girl from Henderson).

Who knows. We'll see. Hood is not just a "fast skinny player": he's a beast of an athlete. Probably a better pure athlete than he is a shooter.

Gillispie's last team at TAMU was one of the best (the best?) three point shooting teams in America, and he did it basically because of purely efficient offensive execution. (Yes, Josh Carter helped.) I've always been a big believer in length and athletes, especially if you're going to play hard-nosed man to man defense, but I do agree that you have to have jump shooters. Jump shooting is and has always been the lifeblood of the game.

Still think the guys we have this year have yet to be heard from. I'm extremely high on both Liggins and Miller; they simply haven't had the luxury of being put in any situations yet where they can succeed.

[4thecards]

I wouldn't exactly say that Calipari is a master recruiter. He gets recruits, how he does it is suspect.

[chworld22]

I wouldn't exactly say that Calipari is a master recruiter. He gets recruits, how he does it is suspect.

How he gets them is easy to explain. He plays a run and gun type of offense without a ton of defense that isn't atheleticly induced. Kids like that because they get to have fun on the offensive end and slack on defense. Then if that doesn't work he sends them some money. LOL

[HozeKing]

Then if that doesn't work he sends them some money. LOL

Those who live in glass houses.... :shrug1:

[chworld22]

Those who live in glass houses.... :shrug1:

Do you want to go down that road with me newbie? I was talking about another school not UL. But, if you want me to start talking about UL I can just as long as you can talk about UK so let's stay away from it.

[catfan02]

In the "what have you done lately category", how many passes do you give that overpaid basketball coach of yours? By this time at UK he had been to 3 final fours and had one national championship. Never even sniffed the NIT!! Might want to worry about Morehead St tomorrow night since you had so much trouble with Georgetown (NAIA) and Northern Ky. (Div 11)

[TrueblueCATfan]

Do you want to go down that road with me newbie? I was talking about another school not UL. But, if you want me to start talking about UL I can just as long as you can talk about UK so let's stay away from it.

yeah we can always bring up 10 year Nate Johnson ans his dad/uncle whatever he was...or Samaki walker and His explorer or that cheating russian volleyball coach who fails to get caught

[chworld22]

yeah we can always bring up 10 year Nate Johnson ans his dad/uncle whatever he was...or Samaki walker and His explorer or that cheating russian volleyball coach who fails to get caught

There are tons of examples but I am going to keep quiet for now.

[HozeKing]

There are tons of examples but I am going to keep quiet for now.

Cash in an envelope...doesn't get any worse.

http://ts1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=256193923236&id=de2f5afdd4954bcdfe3e1c26d5c3fbeb

[catfan02]

CN or Noknee!!!

[TrueblueCATfan]

CN or Noknee!!!

I thought the same thing but this guy has Illinios as his location

[chworld22]

Cash in an envelope...doesn't get any worse.

http://ts1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=256193923236&id=de2f5afdd4954bcdfe3e1c26d5c3fbeb

Yea it does how about a secretary job paying 25/hr? A free Explorer? Really do you want go down this road? Not a conversation you can really win in any form.

[Cards R Best]

Yea it does how about a secretary job paying 25/hr? A free Explorer? Really do you want go down this road? Not a conversation you can really win in any form.

You know I was going to stay out of this discussion because really it was a bunch of garbage going back and forth.......but yes I wanna go down this road. What about POINT SHAVING? That would be worse than anything that has been brought up. I mean high paying jobs, Explorers or even cash in Emory envelopes dont compare to POINT SHAVING. Just remember all schools have there dirty little messes just some have worse ones than others. I mean think about it UK would have more wins on the resume if they had competed in the 1952-53 season

[BigBlue75]

This is exactly why I bowed out of the discussion, CardsRBest. I can take some good natured smack talk about who has the best team and all that, but there is NO NEED to bring up allegations, old or new or imagined, about cheating. There simply isn't, I don't care how you slice the pie.

The bottom line is both UK and UL have had episodes in the past that we're not proud of and would just as soon forget. There's no need for fans of either side to keep dredging it up and it doesn't matter who started the ball rolling in that direction.

I think it might be time for the mods to close this thread down before it gets out of hand, even if it is the smack board.

[Cards R Best]

This is exactly why I bowed out of the discussion, CardsRBest. I can take some good natured smack talk about who has the best team and all that, but there is NO NEED to bring up allegations, old or new or imagined, about cheating. There simply isn't, I don't care how you slice the pie.

The bottom line is both UK and UL have had episodes in the past that we're not proud of and would just as soon forget. There's no need for fans of either side to keep dredging it up and it doesn't matter who started the ball rolling in that direction.

I think it might be time for the mods to close this thread down before it gets out of hand, even if it is the smack board.

Thats exactly how I felt and really hate that I even posted in the 1st place. I guess thats how I chose to prove that point. Lets just talk about how bad the Cards are gonna beat the Cats this year.......LOL just trying to keep it about the game this year.

[chworld22]

You know I was going to stay out of this discussion because really it was a bunch of garbage going back and forth.......but yes I wanna go down this road. What about POINT SHAVING? That would be worse than anything that has been brought up. I mean high paying jobs, Explorers or even cash in Emory envelopes dont compare to POINT SHAVING. Just remember all schools have there dirty little messes just some have worse ones than others. I mean think about it UK would have more wins on the resume if they had competed in the 1952-53 season

You know you are doing the exact same thing that he did just with a vail of I didn't want to get into this discussion. I said in the first place I didn't want to go down that road and tried to steer clear of it until I was pushed the second time and had to say something. UK players were wrapped up in point shaving yes but that shouldn't be a black mark on UK per say but more on the individual players and their criminal activity and we both know that UK and UL both have had their fair share of individuals doing things against the law. So really the point you bring up is a seperate discussion from what the university or coachs did.

[Rockober]

This thread has gone from coaching vs recruiting to slinging crap.Time to flush it.

The thread is closed!!