Have You Seen JFK?

[Will Lavender]

I just watched Oliver Stone's JFK for the first time.

Tremendous piece of filmmaking, I think. I know very little about the conspiracy, and I know this has been discussed before on this board (in the political forum, I can remember more than a few threads), but what do you think about Stone's theory: that the government conspired to kill Kennedy?

I now want to read Gerald Posner's Case Closed to get a feel for the other side.

(Not sure if this is too political. If so, feel free to delete.)

(And here (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19911222/PEOPLE/212010306) is an interesting Roger Ebert essay where he argues that the film doesn't have to be grounded in fact because films, at their heart, don't deal in fact but rather deal in emotion. Reminds me of the discussion of United 93 a couple of weeks ago.)

[yitbos]

Honestly, I dont think that the government was involved. I don't think that Oswald acted alone, but I think it had more to do with the mob than our government.

[Texas Cat Fan]

There was a Bill Curtis series on it a few years ago.....worth catching, though I wouldn't know how to find it. Surely it's archived somewhere....

Anyway, at the end, they found the guy that was taking pics on the lawn near the grassy knoll....he was a veteran, IIRC, and knew the sound of a bullet as it passes nearby (mini sonic boom?)....

when they showed him the picture they had enhanced in order to identify him, and the moment the guy realizes he's the only living person left to have been right there (and corroborate the bullet sound coming over his shoulder from the fence)....

MAN! Here's this old guy, a veteran, probably tough as nails.....it was intense....you could see (mainly, I think) that he literally feared for his life, right there. Shew, it was powerful. Lower lip started to tremble....guy couldn't speak...choking up.

His reaction alone makes it hard for me to believe there wasn't something going on...whether it was the mob, or whatever.

[baldcat]

The Mafia makesthe most likely suspect if there was a conspiracy at all.

JFK was elected after his dad promised the mafia they would have a friend in the White House if they delivered Chicago at the ballet box.

They did and then RFK began a personal jihad against them.

[largebluej]

The movie is very well-made and very entertaining. It also was the basis for a memorable Seinfeld scene where Jerry disputed the claim of Kramer and Newman that Keith Hernandez spit on Kramer at a Mets game, made all the more hilarious by the fact that the actor that played Newman also was in JFK and was in the courtroom re-enactment of the shooting, which was re-created for demonstrating the "Magic Loogy". Very funny stuff.

However, the movie is almost total fiction. Oswald acted alone. Will mentioned Gerald Posner's book "Case Closed". That is must reading for anyone interested in the subject. He takes every single hypothesis offered by the conspiracy theorists over the years and methodically tears them to shreds. There is also a more recent documentary on the subject that has been in the recent rotation on the History Channel that supports the fact that a lone gunman (Oswald) killed Kennedy. For example, the so-called Magic Bullet theory, which is ridiculed in the movie and by a lot of the conspiracy foks, is scientifically proven not to be so much magic as geometry. Connally was sitting in a front seat quite a bit lower than Kennedy's back seat and turned to his right after the first shot, then was struck by the second shot after it had gone through Kennedy's neck. Based on their positions they show how it happened.

There is an element that is always going to claim there was a conspiracy, but as time passes that position becomes more and more untenable. Lee Harvey Oswald alone killed JFK.

[Will Lavender]

One of the more interesting things in the film is a small detail:

A woman testifies to having seen Jack Ruby on the morning of the execution. He was with another man. This other man was taking a gun-shaped bag out of the back of a truck Ruby was driving and walking toward the grassy knoll.

Some of the major theories that Costner's character throws out are a bit far-fetched. But there are some really interesting theories that Stone presents and that were corroborated by real people.

The film, even though it is extremely well-made, seems like just a conspiracy dump for Oliver Stone. I do think, however, that his World Trade Center, which comes out later this summer, will be very interesting to say the least.

[johnkyblue]

All I know is that somebody destroyed the populist movement in the 1960's. JFK, RFK, MLK, and Jimmy Hoffa a little later.

[UK78ALUM]

There was a Bill Curtis series on it a few years ago.....worth catching, though I wouldn't know how to find it. Surely it's archived somewhere....

It's called "The Men Who Killed Kennedy".

Dave

[Stucat]

UK78ALUM wrote: There was a Bill Curtis series on it a few years ago.....worth catching, though I wouldn't know how to find it. Surely it's archived somewhere....

It's called "The Men Who Killed Kennedy".

Dave


Dave,

I saw the movie as well as lived through that period. It is hard to believe that Oswald could have acted alone in the assasination. I know that was what the Warren Commission decided was the official finding but it is still hard for me to believe the things that Lee Harvy Oswald could get by with. He lived in Minsk in Byleorussia in 1961. This was during the Cold War and it wasn't as easy getting to Russia as it is today. Then he was allowed to come back to the United States from the Soviet Union with his wife, Marina. That in and of itself is remarkable.

I know that New Orleans' judge Jim Garrison never believed that Oswald acted alone. He went to his grave believing that there was a conspiracy. Somehow I always thought it had something to do with Cuba but maybe I was wrong.

[surveyor]

I believe that everything to be declassified has been.

[Texas Cat Fan]

Yes, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy"....sounds right.....

Did you see the part I was referring to? Pretty convincing, wasn't it?

[Will Lavender]

FCFS82 wrote: What is the date that all the censored, worthless documents get released?

:question

Text at the end of JFK says 2028, I believe. That movie was made in '91, though, so maybe something has changed in the last fifteen years.

[trublu]

For some reason, I have always felt that LBJ was involved. I have no legitimate reasons for thinking this, but I never trusted him. He was little too good ole boy and shady for me.

[1daysoon]

There was actually two versions of the "Men who killed Kennedy". The first one is fairly old (probably made in the 70's) and has been shown several times on different cable channels.

The second version was shown only a few years ago on the History Channel. They shown interviews with VP Johnson mistress admittedthe night before the assassination that Kennedy who would dead the next day. He also claimed that VP Johnson and one Richard Nixon had met that same day without anyone knowing it.

She claims the mob, and the government and the military conspired to kill the president. All wanted the war in Vietnam to continue and Kennedy had made a committment to get all the military advisors out of Vietnam. Within a week of Johnson assuming the presidency, he slowly started increasing the advisors and then sent the troops over.

Please don't ask if this series is on DVD because someone sued the History Channel and and they have agreed never to show this program again. Kind of makes you wonder.

http://hnn.us/articles/4504.html