Shagari Alleyene has apparently flunked out of school.

[MurphyLee]

Didn't see this posted anywhere but WLEX is reporting it.I guess he just never figured out that the student part of student/athlete is important too.He will probably dominate at some lower level college.http://www.wlextv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4955461

[DBCAT]

If this is true, I hate it for him. Shagari was certainly not one of our best players, but it stinks that he flunked out of school. Shagari always seemed like a really good guy when he would talk to the media, which is more than you can say for a lot of today's athletes. The only positive that comes from this, is that Woo will be the only 7 footer taking major criticism next year, that is if Carter improves into a solid big guy. Oh yeah, it also frees up a scholarship,...not that it will be filled with anybody of any serious talent.:wildcatface:wildcatface:wildcatface:wildca tface:wildcatface:wildcatface:wildcatface:wildcatf ace:wildcatface:wildcatface

[ukbob]

This kid was too bright to flunk out. The fact that he skipped sessions should tell you why he did.

Sorry, I don't feel sorry for those who don't try. The opportunity was there....all the help and tutoring was there. He failed to take advantage of it from what I understand.

[KapitalCat]

I agree with Bob. Shag was a very bright guy who did not give a darn (apparently). I hope things work out for him. Tubby has his work cut out for him.

[TrueblueCATfan]

WAVE-3 just reported this also..........Tubby cut him loose and give the scholly to someone who wants to play basketball and study

[bleedbluelady]

This is NOT good news for the UK programand one part of me is so mad I want to wring his neck. :X I can't imagine having the opportunity he had and throwing it all away. However, the other part of me hopes this serves as a wake up call and things work out for him.

[Lost Highway]

Shag played basketball the same way he studied, with little effort or dedication. Tubby and the Cats are better off and Shagis better off with hismoving on down the road.

You really have to try hard to flunk out of school when you are on basketball scholarship. You have every resource available to keep that from happening.

This might be a good thing for all.

[Dwight Schrute]

No kidding. In my worst semester of college, I skipped over half my classes and drank all the time, and still walked away with a 2.6 GPA for the semester.

You really do have to try to flunk out.

Lost Highway wrote:
You really have to try hard to flunk out of school when you are on basketball scholarship. You have every resource available to keep that from happening.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Don't get me wrong everybody I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my earlier post but I am having a real hard time trying to figure out why..I loved the kid....I loved seeing him on the court...I just can't understand what might be going on in his head

[ukbob]

Of course we really don't know if this is even true. However, it would not surprise me if it was.

[KapitalCat]

Bob..the story makes sense, but I would take almost anything Cutler says with a grain of salt.

[wyldkatzky]

Well, now we have two scholarships available, I really hope tubby can do something wonderful with them.

[ukbob]

wyldkatzky wrote: Well, now we have two scholarships available, I really hope tubby can do something wonderful with them.

Actually, I think we have 3(IF THIS IS TRUE), but I agree that adding a player might be a good idea now. I fear it may be a JUCO or something and you know what kind of success we have had with them.

[FrogtownRoadCat]

The drama continues for Tubby's program. Players come, players go. They won't go to class, they don't get along with the coaching staff. The beat goes on and on and on. Tubby has a knack for either producingbad kids or attracting them one. They either arrive as bad apples or they become one. Either way is a poor reflection of the way the coaching staff does things. Three years now effectively wasted on a post player; and a seven footer no less. The lack of discipline in the program, in many facets of the program, is extremely self evident. I've said it before and I'll say it again, sometimes change for the sake of change is a good thing. I look forward to an eventual fresh approach. The current program has turned stale. I only hope it doesn't rot before that approach arrives.

[Caveman Catfan]

That post was predictable.

[Mark Blueblood]

Gee Dwight, don't ya think the "You really do have to try to flunk out" statement is rather elitist??

I went there during the Vietnam war years and you sure didn't have to try to flunk out then. I scored in the top 10 percentile on the ACT and I did what you did for one of my semesters and I did flunk out.

Proud to say I worked my butt of at Thomas More to get my GPA up, get accepted to come back a year later and earned a B.A. and was on scholarship for my M.A. - but I worked my heinie off to do it.

Maybe you're younger, smarter and things have changed.

As for Shagari - I always thought he was, seemingly, an intelligent guy.

[RP_McMurphy]

Sad to see a kid waste a chance many of us in our wildest dreams would never get. Yet doesn't it speak volumes that the day we find out one of players has flunked out of school. His coach isn't even in the country. How many ten loss seasons will it take? How many transfers? How many blowouts? Kentucky basketball has become a embarassment on and off the court.

[ukbob]

RP_McMurphy wrote: Sad to see a kid waste a chance many of us in our wildest dreams would never get. Yet doesn't it speak volumes that the day we find out one of players has flunked out of school. His coach isn't even in the country. How many ten loss seasons will it take? How many transfers? How many blowouts? Kentucky basketball has become a embarassment on and off the court.
What in God's name does Tubby being in Kuwait have to do with this? :thumbdown

Sorry, but I don't get this at all.

Smith gave this kid EVERY opportunity under the sun, IMO. Perhaps even more than he should have. Tubby kept him on the team because Shag's mom had asked him to see that her son graduates. He benched him, suspended him more than once and did all he could to motivate him to attend sessions.

You can lay a lot of stuff going wrong at the feet of one Tubby Smith and I would agree with many of them. However, blaming him for Shagari Alleyne's class habits is nothing more than piling on, IMO.

Let's see how this plays out anyway. May be jumping the gun. Maybe not.

[patpat4three]

with all the ppl leavin this year it will kill our graduation rate

[ukbob]

patpat4three wrote: with all the ppl leavin this year it will kill our graduation rate
Won't help, however, it depends upon the ruling of the NCAA. If they take out the transfers and leaving for the pros, then we are OK.

Sparks....Senior. No idea if he graduated.

Stockton...graduate

Moss....walkon-doesn't count

Sims...transfer.....????

LeMaster....walkon

Rondo....left for pros

Williams...transfer...????

Alleyne(still up in the air)...transfer

If the transfer doesn't count on us, then we are OK. Next year, Perry, Thomas, Woo all will graduate. Woo has enough hours to graduate now.

[TrueblueCATfan]

RP_McMurphy wrote: Sad to see a kid waste a chance many of us in our wildest dreams would never get. Yet doesn't it speak volumes that the day we find out one of players has flunked out of school. His coach isn't even in the country. How many ten loss seasons will it take? How many transfers? How many blowouts? Kentucky basketball has become a embarassment on and off the court.
How is it Tubby's fault that he flunked. out.....Did Tubby take tests for him or do his work.....Tubby gave him Chance after chance..........Time to move on......he was not valuable....

[RP_McMurphy]

When is he responsible for anything? The guy has more mulligans than a blind eighty year old one leggedgolfer. Yes he is responsible it's his program!!!!!!!! He's paid more money than any of us would make in a lifetime to make sure his players don't flunk out of school. I don't care if you have to grabthe player by the ear and drag him to class. Get his rear end to class !!!!!!

TrueblueCATfan wrote:
RP_McMurphy wrote: Sad to see a kid waste a chance many of us in our wildest dreams would never get. Yet doesn't it speak volumes that the day we find out one of players has flunked out of school. His coach isn't even in the country. How many ten loss seasons will it take? How many transfers? How many blowouts? Kentucky basketball has become a embarassment on and off the court.
How is it Tubby's fault that he flunked. out.....Did Tubby take tests for him or do his work.....Tubby gave him Chance after chance..........Time to move on......he was not valuable....

[SamKat]

Another site also reported this about alleyne:

>From WLEX:

Since the end of the season, the UK men's basketball team has
lost a lot of players, and on Friday another name was added to
the list.

Sources have told LEX 18 Sports that center Shagari Alleyene,
who had struggles both on and off the court in his two seasons at
UK, has apparently flunked out of school. The 7'3" Alleyene was in
coach Tubby Smith's doghouse several times because of his grades
in the past season, in which he played in only 22 of 35 games,
averaging just six minutes and two points per game.

UK has now lost eight players since the season ended, four of
whom still had eligibility remaining. Interestingly, more players
have left the team this year than when former coach Eddie Sutton
was forced to resign and players left due to the NCAA sanctions
in the late 1980's.

LEX 18 was unable to get any comment from Smith, who is in
Kuwait coaching an Army basketball team. UK sports information
director Scott Strickland said, "At this point and time we're not
in a position to address this...at this time."

[DCWildcat]

RP_McMurphy wrote: When is he responsible for anything? The guy has more mulligans than a blind eighty year old one leggedgolfer. Yes he is responsible it's his program!!!!!!!! He's paid more money than any of us would make in a lifetime to make sure his players don't flunk out of school. I don't care if you have to grabthe player by the ear and drag him to class. Get his rear end to class !!!!!!

TrueblueCATfan wrote:
RP_McMurphy wrote: Sad to see a kid waste a chance many of us in our wildest dreams would never get. Yet doesn't it speak volumes that the day we find out one of players has flunked out of school. His coach isn't even in the country. How many ten loss seasons will it take? How many transfers? How many blowouts? Kentucky basketball has become a embarassment on and off the court.
How is it Tubby's fault that he flunked. out.....Did Tubby take tests for him or do his work.....Tubby gave him Chance after chance..........Time to move on......he was not valuable....

If Shag couldn't take advantage of the opportunities he was given--and being 7'3" and bright at UK playing basketball are some of the best God could ever give you--then it's his fault.

For some reason, every single thing that happens in our program is somehow Tubby's fault. If you can't make grades when you're smart, taking bull**** classes, and on the basketball team, there's no help for you, period.

[wyldkatzky]

RP_McMurphy wrote: When is he responsible for anything? The guy has more mulligans than a blind eighty year old one leggedgolfer. Yes he is responsible it's his program!!!!!!!! He's paid more money than any of us would make in a lifetime to make sure his players don't flunk out of school. I don't care if you have to grabthe player by the ear and drag him to class. Get his rear end to class !!!!!!

TrueblueCATfan wrote:
RP_McMurphy wrote: Sad to see a kid waste a chance many of us in our wildest dreams would never get. Yet doesn't it speak volumes that the day we find out one of players has flunked out of school. His coach isn't even in the country. How many ten loss seasons will it take? How many transfers? How many blowouts? Kentucky basketball has become a embarassment on and off the court.
How is it Tubby's fault that he flunked. out.....Did Tubby take tests for him or do his work.....Tubby gave him Chance after chance..........Time to move on......he was not valuable....

RP in most of your posts I see fluttering around I could ask the opposite question, how is everything not Tubby's fault, but really now. Puting Tubby at blame for this kid not getting off his own butt to go to class and try to make good grades is just silly.

It is not Tubby's job to attend class with these students to make sure they attend as well. Tubby has constantly been benching him because of this and I don't see how this could possibly be Tubby's fault. No one's fault but his own.

[FrogtownRoadCat]

RP_McMurphy wrote: When is he responsible for anything? The guy has more mulligans than a blind eighty year old one leggedgolfer. Yes he is responsible it's his program!!!!!!!! He's paid more money than any of us would make in a lifetime to make sure his players don't flunk out of school. I don't care if you have to grabthe player by the ear and drag him to class. Get his rear end to class !!!!!!


Or better yet, a strong discipline and conditioning program led by a suitable enforcer capable of motivating the guys into staying straight on their own. Too much babysitting is requiredof this staff. Why can't theysufficiently earn the respect of their players so that the players either WANT to performor are too SCAREDto not perform. That's been my biggest complaint about Tubby and his staff from day one. The decline in the conditioning program and the absence of an enforcer like Rock Oliver not only affects the players' inability torun with running teams towards the endof high tempo games, but I believe it alsospills over into team morale, cohesion, MENTAL TOUGHNESSwith a nasty streak,and willingness to operate as a single unit under the direction of an undisputed leader on the bench. That's what was so great about the Pitino-Rock Oliver combo, and I guess that's why I miss the way things used to be so much.

[graham51]

From a basketball talent viewpoint he should not have even been at UK in the first place.

[Buddah]

Lost Highway wrote:


You really have to try hard to flunk out of school when you are on basketball scholarship.Â*



AMEN, that is so true, i mean we probably don't even realize. i mean you REALLY REALLY Have to try and flunk out, especially if you are a basketball player... you got the world at your feet and you don't take advantage of it. shag never struck me as a very intelligent guy, so i don't know where alot of people are basing that he was so bright and so forth. even so, he was smart enough to be able not to flunk out.. who knows ?

school is really not that tough especially under grad, you just have to do the work and have time management.. maybe shag should have took that as elective along with basket weaving. no excuse for him to flunk out.

[DCWildcat]

Buddah wrote: Lost Highway wrote:


You really have to try hard to flunk out of school when you are on basketball scholarship.



school is really not that tough, you just have to do the work and have time management.. maybe shag should have took that as elective along with basket weaving..

Or found a Harrick to teach his classses :D

[Buddah]

DCWildcat wrote:
Buddah wrote: Lost Highway wrote:


You really have to try hard to flunk out of school when you are on basketball scholarship.Â*



school is really not that tough, you just have to do the work and have time management.. maybe shag should have took that as elective along with basket weaving..

Or found a Harrick to teach his classses :D


RFLMAO AHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH :lol: or maybe scott rigot, might as well do something these days to earn his pay check. lmao

[trublue4life]

FrogtownRoadCat wrote: The drama continues for Tubby's program. Players come, players go. They won't go to class, they don't get along with the coaching staff. The beat goes on and on and on. Tubby has a knack for either producingbad kids or attracting them one. They either arrive as bad apples or they become one. Either way is a poor reflection of the way the coaching staff does things. Three years now effectively wasted on a post player; and a seven footer no less. The lack of discipline in the program, in many facets of the program, is extremely self evident. I've said it before and I'll say it again, sometimes change for the sake of change is a good thing. I look forward to an eventual fresh approach. The current program has turned stale. I only hope it doesn't rot before that approach arrives.
YeaH, and I hear he may be responsible for spreading bird flu and for the troubles at Enron:rolleyes:

[trublue4life]

RP_McMurphy wrote: When is he responsible for anything? The guy has more mulligans than a blind eighty year old one leggedgolfer. Yes he is responsible it's his program!!!!!!!! He's paid more money than any of us would make in a lifetime to make sure his players don't flunk out of school. I don't care if you have to grabthe player by the ear and drag him to class. Get his rear end to class !!!!!!


He did. For three years the Tubby and his staff have dragged his 7'11" arse to class, provided tutoring, benched him for missing class, scolded hime both publicly and privately, got his mother involved in trying to motivate him AND NOTHING WORKED!!!!!!!!! When does a 21 or 22 year old kid become responsible for his own actions? Tubby finally has had it after three years and is doing the right thing by letting the kid go. If anything he probably should have pulled the trigger a year earlier. And, if you ever find the magic pixie dust to keep a kid that doesn't want to do the work from flunking out of school...well, somebody will probably be willing to pay you a lot of money!!!!!

[bamacat]

cdrw wrote: RP_McMurphy wrote: When is he responsible for anything? The guy has more mulligans than a blind eighty year old one leggedgolfer. Yes he is responsible it's his program!!!!!!!! He's paid more money than any of us would make in a lifetime to make sure his players don't flunk out of school. I don't care if you have to grabthe player by the ear and drag him to class. Get his rear end to class !!!!!!



I don't know for sure, of course, but these sound like the words of someone who isn't directly involved in higher education. I'd say the old "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" is as true in the college setting as any. Over the years I continue to see Duke students who either 1) have parents paying a huge amount for their tuition or 2) are getting wonderful financial aid, and they squander the opportunity. Maybe they don't actually flunk out, but they do the bare minimum. The vast majority DO make good use of the opportunities here, but there is always a bewildering minority that don't.

Shagari was truly wasted potential. He obviously didn't have the coordination of a gymnast, but he could REALLY disrupt another team's offense when he went in, and he could hold his own offensively. I'm sorry for him and his mother. My guess is that if he ever succeeds in anything, it will be when he DOESN'T have people pulling or pushing him really hard and he decides to motivate himself.
What a pure peice of crap.

[Dwight Schrute]

Sorry if it offended you? Just saying I didn't find college to be all that hard - all things considered.

Mark Blueblood wrote: Gee Dwight, don't ya think the "You really do have to try to flunk out" statement is rather elitist??

I went there during the Vietnam war years and you sure didn't have to try to flunk out then. I scored in the top 10 percentile on the ACT and I did what you did for one of my semesters and I did flunk out.

Proud to say I worked my butt of at Thomas More to get my GPA up, get accepted to come back a year later and earned a B.A. and was on scholarship for my M.A. - but I worked my heinie off to do it.

Maybe you're younger, smarter and things have changed.

As for Shagari - I always thought he was, seemingly, an intelligent guy.

[HC]

Am I the only dumbass on this board, or did tubby recruit a dud?:cry:

[HC]

Folks, I usually don't get so excited as to make a statement like I just did, but the infusion of recruits and the exits of recruits over the last few years just boggles my mind!:X That's not what UK Basketball is supposed to be!

[FrogtownRoadCat]

trublue4life wrote: YeaH, and I hear he may be responsible for spreading bird flu and for the troubles at Enron:rolleyes:
[Edited for content in violation of WCN posting rules.]

[hoosierhateruklover]

Of all the lost players this year....this is the one I hate to see the most. Believe it or not I felt he was one of the top 3 of our best players...all he had to do was stand in the paint and even 3 point shots were hard to take. His absense from the court this year was the main reason we struggled if you ask me....With all of that being said and whats been done has been done, I hope UK conserves the scholarship for 07....I would like to see Hickson,Randolph,Johnson. Lucas, Patterson, and possible one more in a power class of all classes!

[RP_McMurphy]

Is Orlando responsible for anything in his program these days?

[SamKat]

Today's Herald Leader say Shag is academically ineligible for basketball, but has not flunked out as yet.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/sports/14680301.htm

[DenCat]

RP_McMurphy wrote: Is Orlando responsible for anything in his program these days?

Yes. As head coach, he is responsible for everything that happens in the program, good or bad. Tubby has a history of giving kids many chances to straighten up, remember Gerald Fitch. But at some point there has to be some personal accountability on the player's part. Shag's problem in the classroom has been well documented and spent a lot of time in the "doghouse". If he failed to take the necessary steps to correct his problem, then it'sALL on him, not Tubby.He had his chance(s).

[Wildcat_Fan98]

http://forums.espn.go.com/espn/thread?forumID=737&threadID=3741601&lastPostID=239 04034

[SunBaller]

FrogtownRoadCat wrote: The drama continues for Tubby's program. Players come, players go. They won't go to class, they don't get along with the coaching staff. The beat goes on and on and on. Tubby has a knack for either producingbad kids or attracting them one. They either arrive as bad apples or they become one. Either way is a poor reflection of the way the coaching staff does things. Three years now effectively wasted on a post player; and a seven footer no less. The lack of discipline in the program, in many facets of the program, is extremely self evident. I've said it before and I'll say it again, sometimes change for the sake of change is a good thing. I look forward to an eventual fresh approach. The current program has turned stale. I only hope it doesn't rot before that approach arrives.
:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup I hope the "rumor" isn't true. Shag is seemingly an intelligent guy. Ican only base that opinion on what I've seen/heard of him with the media. Regardless of his I.Q., he couldn't be too "smart" in common sense to flunk out of a basketball scholarship. There must be something going on in his head whether it be apersonal matter or UK Basketball related. It's been saidmany times, but it's extremely difficult to flunk out while on a UK Basketball Scholarship. Someone dropped the ball regardless where his problems originate. If it is true I hope he can continue his education somewhere else. I think he's too tall to clean toilets.

[SunBaller]

SamKat wrote: Another site also reported this about alleyne:

>From WLEX:

UK has now lost eight players since the season ended, four of
whom still had eligibility remaining. Interestingly, more players
have left the team this year than when former coach Eddie Sutton
was forced to resign and players left due to the NCAA sanctions
in the late 1980's.

LEX 18 was unable to get any comment from Smith, who is in
Kuwait coaching an Army basketball team. UK sports information
director Scott Strickland said, "At this point and time we're not
in a position to address this...at this time."





Interesting :shrug:

[trublue4life]

FrogtownRoadCat wrote: trublue4life wrote: YeaH, and I hear he may be responsible for spreading bird flu and for the troubles at Enron:rolleyes:
[Edited for content in violation ofWCNposting rules.]
Not nearly as poorly as your Shag dismissed = Tubby dismissed logic reflects on you. Your post is so full of generalizations and inferences that Tubby somehow produces bad character in otherwise model citizens that it's ridiculous. Gerald Fitch, for just one example, would most likely disagree. Such logic is certainly worthy of my smart arse comment, IMO.If you don't want to risk someone responding that way then don't post.

[SunBaller]

FrogtownRoadCat wrote: The drama continues for Tubby's program. Players come, players go. They won't go to class, they don't get along with the coaching staff. The beat goes on and on and on. Tubby has a knack for either producingbad kids or attracting them one. They either arrive as bad apples or they become one. Either way is a poor reflection of the way the coaching staff does things. Three years now effectively wasted on a post player; and a seven footer no less. The lack of discipline in the program, in many facets of the program, is extremely self evident. I've said it before and I'll say it again, sometimes change for the sake of change is a good thing. I look forward to an eventual fresh approach. The current program has turned stale. I only hope it doesn't rot before that approach arrives.
:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup I can't say I could blame Tubby directly for Shag's irresponsibility, but it is so extremely difficult to flunk out of a UK basketball scholarship that some aspect of that program just wasn't being monitored.

[Jeff Craddock]

cdrw wrote: My guess is that if he ever succeeds in anything, it will be when he DOESN'T have people pulling or pushing him really hard and he decides to motivate himself.

Wise words. Remember Scott Padgett? It took flunking out of school and going home to cool his heels in Louisville to get him motivated, Rock Oliver/Pitino notwithstanding. Padgett has described that experience as a painful wake-up call.

I have worked with problem adolescents--as well as adults--for over thirty years. The one indisputable truth I've learned is that while it is good to do as much as you can for someone who is trying to help himself, at some point you have to get out of the way and let the natural consequences of self-defeating behaviors run their course. That is most often where the real learning takes place.

Clearly Tubby did all he could. Suspensions and benchings were not enough to motivate the kid, so what was he to do? Take the tests for him? Write the papers?

I'm hoping that, like Padgett, Shag learns that only he can make things right. He's a bright kid who has the tools to succeed, by all reports. His career at UK is most likely finished, but he has a long way to go and there will be other opportunities.

[cats4lifenc]

Caveman Catfan wrote: That post was predictable.
and unfortunately right on the money

[Dwight Schrute]

Not to correct you, but I think you meant Scott Padgett.

Otherwise, I'd have to say that you are right, and that Shagari has to hit rock bottom before he can begin to climb back up.
Jeff Craddock wrote: cdrw wrote: My guess is that if he ever succeeds in anything, it will be when he DOESN'T have people pulling or pushing him really hard and he decides to motivate himself.

Wise words. Remember Tom Padgett? It took flunking out of school and going home to cool his heels in Louisville to get him motivated, Rock Oliver/Pitino notwithstanding. Padgett has described that experience as a painful wake-up call.

I have worked with problem adolescents--as well as adults--for over thirty years. The one indisputable truth I've learned is that while it is good to do as much as you can for someone who is trying to help himself, at some point you have to get out of the way and let the natural consequences of self-defeating behaviors run their course. That is most often where the real learning takes place.

Clearly Tubby did all he could. Suspensions and benchings were not enough to motivate the kid, so what was he to do? Take the tests for him? Write the papers?

I'm hoping that, like Padgett, Shag learns that only he can make things right. He's a bright kid who has the tools to succeed, by all reports. His career at UK is most likely finished, but he has a long way to go and there will be other opportunities.

[Jeff Craddock]

^Right you are. Thanks for the correction, I've edited my post.

[TrueblueCATfan]

RP_McMurphy wrote: Is Orlando responsible for anything in his program these days?

Yeah he is responsible for the coaching the team

[Caveman Catfan]

ukbob wrote: What in God's name does Tubby being in Kuwait have to do with this? :thumbdown



Not one rational thing.

[Caveman Catfan]

Buddah wrote: shag never struck me as a very intelligent guy, so i don't know where alot of people are basing that he was so bright and so forth. even so, he was smart enough to be able not to flunk out.. who knows ?



Just listen to a few interviews, the guy was smart enough to graduate from college.

[Caveman Catfan]

SunBaller wrote: SamKat wrote: Another site also reported this about alleyne:

>From WLEX:

UK has now lost eight players since the season ended, four of
whom still had eligibility remaining. Interestingly, more players
have left the team this year than when former coach Eddie Sutton
was forced to resign and players left due to the NCAA sanctions
in the late 1980's.

LEX 18 was unable to get any comment from Smith, who is in
Kuwait coaching an Army basketball team. UK sports information
director Scott Strickland said, "At this point and time we're not
in a position to address this...at this time."





Interesting :shrug:


I don't find that relevant. Most of the kids who stuck with the program at that time were Kentucky kids. Pelphrey, Feldhaus, Farmer, Hanson and Woods (a kid from Indiana) stuck it out, as you would expect. Also, once it was discovered that RP was going to be the coach, I suspect that created an interest for those who remained. The big name stars, Ellis and the kid who was forced to leave UK (FedEx Cali kid who went to Zona whose name escapes me right now), left the program. What big name star stuck around?

So, I am not sure what that has to do with anything.

I think Sims made a mistake in leaving, but that is done. Williams made a smart move, if playing time is important (clearly from his comments, he did not leave bitter), and Shag is not eligible (not sure what he would have to do to become eligible).

Of the three, I would say Tubby made a poor decision in offerring Adam a scholly so soon. But, kids sit the bench at schools all over the country that were recruited on potential. Sims was not a bad recruit, IMO. Had his back remained healthy, I think he would have seen much more playing time last year. With a healthy back and determination, he could have competed with Thomas for a starting spot, IMO. Shag just never showed the time of discipline that it was going to take to become a player. If he had Woo's will, things might have been different.

RP has lost his share of players over the past couple of years. Some leave with positive memories, some with sour feelings. His losses are viewed as a natural part of big time college basketball, while Tubby's are viewed as some personal deficiency.

[Caveman Catfan]

Jeff Craddock wrote: cdrw wrote: My guess is that if he ever succeeds in anything, it will be when he DOESN'T have people pulling or pushing him really hard and he decides to motivate himself.

Wise words. Remember Scott Padgett? It took flunking out of school and going home to cool his heels in Louisville to get him motivated, Rock Oliver/Pitino notwithstanding. Padgett has described that experience as a painful wake-up call.

I have worked with problem adolescents--as well as adults--for over thirty years. The one indisputable truth I've learned is that while it is good to do as much as you can for someone who is trying to help himself, at some point you have to get out of the way and let the natural consequences of self-defeating behaviors run their course. That is most often where the real learning takes place.

Clearly Tubby did all he could. Suspensions and benchings were not enough to motivate the kid, so what was he to do? Take the tests for him? Write the papers?

I'm hoping that, like Padgett, Shag learns that only he can make things right. He's a bright kid who has the tools to succeed, by all reports. His career at UK is most likely finished, but he has a long way to go and there will be other opportunities.


I agree.

[HOMEYCAT]

I'm not certain whether he has flunked out, but there is not much question that he is bright enough to do very well. His interview aplomb and his communication skills are not bad at all.

I think, maybe, he considers himself desirable enough on other levels, so that academics aren't necessary, in his case. At 7' 3'', I might not worry too much myself. It's definitely the easy roadto not even engage in the academic world. He'll regret not doing so. That is inevitable.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Caveman Catfan wrote: Buddah wrote: shag never struck me as a very intelligent guy, so i don't know where alot of people are basing that he was so bright and so forth. even so, he was smart enough to be able not to flunk out.. who knows ?



Just listen to a few interviews, the guy was smart enough to graduate from college.


Exactly.....very smart when speaking to the media....... unlike some other basketball player who I could never understand a word that came out of his mouth.....did not graduate though went on to the NBA

[T75]

I really have mixed emotions about losing Shagari. All along I've felt that a light would go on inside his head any day and he'd be unstoppable under the basket. It's difficult for me to imagine a young person with his physical attributes not caring enough to give 100% every day in hopes of achieving those NBA riches, even if he has no personal pride in his achievements.

[Buddah]

TrueblueCATfan wrote:
Caveman Catfan wrote: Buddah wrote: shag never struck me as a very intelligent guy, so i don't know where alot of people are basing that he was so bright and so forth. even so, he was smart enough to be able not to flunk out.. who knows ?

Â*

Just listen to a few interviews, the guy was smart enough to graduate from college.Â*


Exactly.....very smart when speaking to the media....... unlike some other basketball player who I could never understand a word that came out of his mouth.....did not graduate though went on to the NBA

Don't really know if we can equate charisma and good verbal communication skills when speaking to the press, as some sort of porthole for intelligence. some of the smartest people i know, have zero communication skills, but they are very smart.. i see what your saying though.. i am sure shag was smart enough to graduate from college, and even more so since he was a UK basketball player. again, he had to try hard to flunk out of school, with all those variables in place. hopefully he will get back on track.

[FrogtownRoadCat]

trublue4life wrote: FrogtownRoadCat wrote: trublue4life wrote: YeaH, and I hear he may be responsible for spreading bird flu and for the troubles at Enron:rolleyes:
YeaH, and smart ars* comments like that reflect poorly of you.
Not nearly as poorly as your Shag dismissed = Tubby dismissed logic reflects on you. Your post is so full of generalizations and inferences that Tubby somehow produces bad character in otherwise model citizens that it's ridiculous. Gerald Fitch, for just one example, would most likely disagree. Such logic is certainly worthy of my smart arse comment, IMO.If you don't want to risk someone responding that way then don't post.
OK then, off with the generalizations. How about the following then?

Shag - won't go to class. Sims - can't relate to the coaching staff. Rondo - can't get along with the coaching staff. Bradley - in and out of Tubby's dog house. Morris - desperate to leave after his first season. Crawford - aching to leave during his first season. And that's justplayers on lastseason's roster. Let's go back a little further. Parker - can't stay out of trouble. Carruth - revolts against the staff. Chiles - confronts and challenges Tubby on the sidelines. Sears - fights with a teammate. Allison - DUI. Camara - DUI. Daniels - False ID. Fitch - False ID. It goes on and on and on and on, making the program look like Little Cincinnati. All of this illustrates an extreme lack of discipline in all facets of the program, and it carries over to performance on the court. Maybe you're like phoenix and you're content with your modern day UK. I, for one, am not, and long for the return of a disciplined, well conditioned, funandfresh approach. I've lost all confidence in Tubby's ability to bring that.

[SamKat]

If Shag could return to the NYC school yards and play a little and see a little more of life around there, and come back with Scott Padgett's attitude ...

The coaches saw him regularly in practices and came to know what to expect of him. Not having that experience, I thought that There were a few games that I didn't feel he was given sufficient PT. He was blocking shots and intimidating people who were trying to come into the lane. He could have changed a couple of L's to W's given the time. Such a force appeared outstanding in those few moments.

Radical head straightening would be required of the young fellow to ever help the Wildcats again.

[Caveman Catfan]

Buddah wrote: TrueblueCATfan wrote:
Caveman Catfan wrote: Buddah wrote: shag never struck me as a very intelligent guy, so i don't know where alot of people are basing that he was so bright and so forth. even so, he was smart enough to be able not to flunk out.. who knows ?



Just listen to a few interviews, the guy was smart enough to graduate from college.


Exactly.....very smart when speaking to the media....... unlike some other basketball player who I could never understand a word that came out of his mouth.....did not graduate though went on to the NBA

Don't really know if we can equate charisma and good verbal communication skills when speaking to the press, as some sort of porthole for intelligence. some of the smartest people i know, have zero communication skills, but they are very smart.. i see what your saying though.. i am sure shag was smart enough to graduate from college, and even more so since he was a UK basketball player. again, he had to try hard to flunk out of school, with all those variables in place. hopefully he will get back on track.
I don't know about portholes for intelligence, but the kid was well-spoken and had a very good sense of humor, both of whichare oftensigns of intelligence.

[Los Gatos]

Caveman Catfan wrote:
I don't find that relevant. Most of the kids who stuck with the program at that time were Kentucky kids. Pelphrey, Feldhaus, Farmer, Hanson and Woods (a kid from Indiana) stuck it out, as you would expect. Also, once it was discovered that RP was going to be the coach, I suspect that created an interest for those who remained. The big name stars, Ellis and the kid who was forced to leave UK (FedEx Cali kid who went to Zona whose name escapes me right now), left the program. What big name star stuck around?



The player who transfered to Arizona was Chris Mills. Best I remember, he still has the only triple double in UK history.

[Caveman Catfan]

Los Gatos wrote:
The player who transfered to Arizona was Chris Mills. Best I remember, he still has the only triple double in UK history.



I could see his face, but could not remember his name. Damn aging!!!

I did almost describe him as the guy who had the triple double.

[Ky Man]

DCWildcat wrote: RP_McMurphy wrote: When is he responsible for anything? The guy has more mulligans than a blind eighty year old one leggedgolfer. Yes he is responsible it's his program!!!!!!!! He's paid more money than any of us would make in a lifetime to make sure his players don't flunk out of school. I don't care if you have to grabthe player by the ear and drag him to class. Get his rear end to class !!!!!!

TrueblueCATfan wrote:
RP_McMurphy wrote: Sad to see a kid waste a chance many of us in our wildest dreams would never get. Yet doesn't it speak volumes that the day we find out one of players has flunked out of school. His coach isn't even in the country. How many ten loss seasons will it take? How many transfers? How many blowouts? Kentucky basketball has become a embarassment on and off the court.
How is it Tubby's fault that he flunked. out.....Did Tubby take tests for him or do his work.....Tubby gave him Chance after chance..........Time to move on......he was not valuable....

If Shag couldn't take advantage of the opportunities he was given--and being 7'3" and bright at UK playing basketball are some of the best God could ever give you--then it's his fault.

For some reason, every single thing that happens in our program is somehow Tubby's fault. If you can't make grades when you're smart, taking bullpoopie classes, and on the basketball team, there's no help for you, period.

Tubby is a coach..he should coach, and give the players all the help that he can give them..make sure that they have tutors and anything else that is legal...BUT, he is NOT a baby sitter, and if you have to baby sit a 20 year old to make sure he goes to class, then maybe that 20 year old don't desreve the opportunity to go to a school like UK and play basketball, I have always like Shag, but I don't think he has done the things he himself needs to do to wear the uniform of fKy..we should all just wish him well and let it go at that...to blame Tubby for Shag's mistakes , imo, is just plain silly.

[RP_McMurphy]

If you were to read Orlando's contract which I have. You will see inserted into it is a bonus if Kentucky's men basketball program achieves a certain Grade Point Average then Orlando gets a monetary bonus. So yes Orlando does have a ownership of his players grades or lack thereof. It is his program from the student manager to his top assitant. Suddenly because one of his players flunked out a lot of people want to say it's not really Orlando's responsibility. I say nonsense is he wants Benjamin's when the grades are good.........he gets heat when the grades are in the toilet.

[OldCatFan]

RP_McMurphy wrote: Is Orlando responsible for anything in his program these days?


RP, don't be jumping on the UK Idol.

Of course not. He is not the leader. He is not the one that makes the final decisions about the program. He is not the CEO of the program. Why blame him? Leave him alone, he is a nice guy and we just need to let him continue along his path until he decides to leave. Heck, why not just give him another 20 or 30 years. Then we are all to old to give a hoot anyway.

[NC Cat]

Lots of times kids aren't mature enough or responsible enough to handle college right out of HS. I was in that camp and so, apparently, is Shag. I went to college for three years after HS andmanaged to amass roughly one year's worth of credit hours. I became accomplished at drinking beer, smoking weed, and chasing girls, but couldn't convince the registrar that I should get credit hours for any of these "life experiences".

For me, it took quitting school and becoming a ski bum for six years before I was finally ready to come back and finish what I'd so halfheartedly started almost a decade earlier. I needed to grow up and get some partying out of my system before I could be serious about education. I came back and finished, though, and I hope Shag does the same someday. He's a bright kid, by all accounts, but just not ready for the responsibility of college and college athletics. Whatever he chooses, I wish the best for him.

[Caveman Catfan]

Tubby should be taking their tests and writing their papers.
:?

EVERY big time coach in the country has a clause about grades and graduation. No one here has to read the contracts to know that. Puffing like that means something is just silly. That clause is not unique, BUT it is the player who must do the work. Players flunk out of almost every program. The CATS program is as good as any in the country at helping athletes gets through classes, perhaps more so than I think should be allowed (if it is the same it was when I was at UK). There is no evidence that Tubby does not do all that is reasonable to help these kids in the classroom.

Shag is finishing his third year. If you make it to the end of your third year and have not figured it out by that time, its no one's fault but your own.

Placing blame on Tubby for this one player's class woes is just pathetic. Is it jealousy that drives people to such disdain? Such unreasonable criticism?

The lack of objectivity by some is simply a sign of weakness, IMO. If you cannot back your opinions with reasonably based arguments, you should re-evaluate your motivation.

[DCWildcat]

RP_McMurphy wrote: If you were to read Orlando's contract which I have. You will see inserted into it is a bonus if Kentucky's men basketball program achieves a certain Grade Point Average then Orlando gets a monetary bonus. So yes Orlando does have a ownership of his players grades or lack thereof. It is his program from the student manager to his top assitant. Suddenly because one of his players flunked out a lot of people want to say it's not really Orlando's responsibility. I say nonsense is he wants Benjamin's when the grades are good.........he gets heat when the grades are in the toilet.
That's really, truly, awful logic.

[DCWildcat]

OldCatFan wrote: RP_McMurphy wrote: Is Orlando responsible for anything in his program these days?


RP, don't be jumping on the UK Idol.

Of course not. He is not the leader. He is not the one that makes the final decisions about the program. He is not the CEO of the program. Why blame him? Leave him alone, he is a nice guy and we just need to let him continue along his path until he decides to leave. Heck, why not just give him another 20 or 30 years. Then we are all to old to give a hoot anyway.

Being sarcastic doesn't make an invalid point any more valid, sorry.

[cnice11]

i currently attend UK, and would love the opportunity to go to school for free. It really sucks that people like him get all the luxuries of UK and throw them away. He needs to go out in the real world, like Scott Padgett did a few years ago when he flunked out, and see how good he had it.

[AugustaDan]

RP_McMurphy wrote: If you were to read Orlando's contract which I have. You will see inserted into it is a bonus if Kentucky's men basketball program achieves a certain Grade Point Average then Orlando gets a monetary bonus. So yes Orlando does have a ownership of his players grades or lack thereof. It is his program from the student manager to his top assitant. Suddenly because one of his players flunked out a lot of people want to say it's not really Orlando's responsibility. I say nonsense is he wants Benjamin's when the grades are good.........he gets heat when the grades are in the toilet.Having briefly perused this oddly contentious thread, I wonder what you have in mind that Orlando should have done differently. We know a lot of what is available to the players and some of the disciplinary actions that he did take. What actions should have occurred to prevent this situation?

EDIT: Could you imagine trying to attend classes if you were Shag's size? Makes me shudder to think about it.

[trublue4life]

FrogtownRoadCat wrote: trublue4life wrote: FrogtownRoadCat wrote: trublue4life wrote: YeaH, and I hear he may be responsible for spreading bird flu and for the troubles at Enron:rolleyes:
[Edited for violation of WCN posting rules.]
Not nearly as poorly as your Shag dismissed = Tubby dismissed logic reflects on you. Your post is so full of generalizations and inferences that Tubby somehow produces bad character in otherwise model citizens that it's ridiculous. Gerald Fitch, for just one example, would most likely disagree. Such logic is certainly worthy of my smart arse comment, IMO.If you don't want to risk someone responding that way then don't post.
OK then, off with the generalizations. How about the following then?

Shag - won't go to class. Sims - can't relate to the coaching staff. Rondo - can't get along with the coaching staff. Bradley - in and out of Tubby's dog house. Morris - desperate to leave after his first season. Crawford - aching to leave during his first season. And that's justplayers on lastseason's roster. Let's go back a little further. Parker - can't stay out of trouble. Carruth - revolts against the staff. Chiles - confronts and challenges Tubby on the sidelines. Sears - fights with a teammate. Allison - DUI. Camara - DUI. Daniels - False ID. Fitch - False ID. It goes on and on and on and on, making the program look like Little Cincinnati. All of this illustrates an extreme lack of discipline in all facets of the program, and it carries over to performance on the court. Maybe you're like phoenix and you're content with your modern day UK. I, for one, am not, and long for the return of a disciplined, well conditioned, funandfresh approach. I've lost all confidence in Tubby's ability to bring that.



Shag - you are correct, he would not do the work in spite of repeated efforts by the staff to get him to do what was expected. Still don't see how his unwillingness to take responsibility for school work was someone caused by Tubby.

Sims - can't (or won't) play defense which is required by Tubby. Lack of playing time leads to decision to transfer. What does this have to do with Tubby's lack of discipline? Seems to me the discipline was the factor that led to Sims transfer.

Rondo - left early for the NBA. Other than unsubstantiated rumors on message boards there's been no indication that he didn't get along with the staff.

Crawford- came back after leaving and is doing what's expected. Seems to me another positive example of the presence of discipline in the program.

Morris -tried NBA waters, didn't make it, returned and worked hard last season while serving NCAA suspension. Returned to court with renewed focus and has done everything staff has asked him to do. Should have great junior season, which he will probably parlayinto NBA dollars.Again, another point in Tubby's discipline column, not a mark against it.

Bradley - still here after being in the dog house. I only know of one instance this past season when he was in. If you know of times he has been "in and out" please share them. But isn't being in the dog house evidence of discipline? At least every dog house I've ever been in meant my dad or my coach or my teacher or whoever was trying to teach me some discipline.

Parker, Carruth, Chiles and Sears- Team Turmoil, enough said. Tubby admitted recruiting mistakes, none stayed around to cause further problems.

Allison, Camara, Daniels and Fitch - 3 of the 4 turned out pretty darn good and I would argue if it weren't for Tubby's discipline they would have all bombed.

The point is you and I can go back and forth on this and never see eye-to-eye. You don't like Tubby, think he should be gone and will see every problem as his personal responsibility. That approach fits your agenda. I support Tubby, don't believe he should be let go unless things do not turn around. I have been critical of some of his decisions and have acknowledged he needs to make changes whichI believe he will. You, on the other hand, are among those who refuse to give him credit for anything and want him gone, period. I really don't see the need for us to continue this volley. Of course, I also believe Tubby is going to be our coach for as long as he chooses to stay. Sorry about your luck.

[CaliUKFan]

Its anunfortunate situation from any angle however, from a basketball perspective, I would rather develop Carter (instead ofdelay if notwasteanother year of his upside) than play Shagari and risk losing Carter to a different school.

[Lost Highway]

CaliUKFan wrote: Its anunfortunate situation from any angle however, from a basketball perspective, I would rather develop Carter (instead ofdelay if notwasteanother year of his upside) than play Shagari and risk losing Carter to a different school.

I agree with this. Carter needs our attention as he is our future. Shag needs our well wishes but let's allowhim to move on out of town and get on with his life. What ever that is.

Let's hope Tubby never recruitis another player like Shag. It isn't worthit and our program should be better than that.

[Los Gatos]

CaliUKFan wrote: Its anunfortunate situation from any angle however, from a basketball perspective, I would rather develop Carter (instead ofdelay if notwasteanother year of his upside) than play Shagari and risk losing Carter to a different school.

Ditto.

[wyldkatzky]

Back more towards the subject, is it possible for him to be taking summer classes to raise his GPA since what I am seeing is that he didn't flunk out of school, but just didn't make grades to qualify for athletics?

[POEKLM]

cnice11 wrote: i currently attend UK, and would love the opportunity to go to school for free. It really sucks that people like him get all the luxuries of UK and throw them away. He needs to go out in the real world, like Scott Padgett did a few years ago when he flunked out, and see how good he had it.
I hear what you are saying. I hope you come to some tailgates this year. We try to take care of our students. My kid commutes to UL so I don't have to pay for food and room and board so if I can buy another kid a meal whose struggling through the expense of college I will gladly do it.

[Wildcat Larry]

RP_McMurphy wrote: Is Orlando responsible for anything in his program these days?

Yes, he's responsible for not playing Allyene if he can't go to class and pass his classes.

[VIIBanners]

POEKLM wrote: cnice11 wrote: i currently attend UK, and would love the opportunity to go to school for free. It really sucks that people like him get all the luxuries of UK and throw them away. He needs to go out in the real world, like Scott Padgett did a few years ago when he flunked out, and see how good he had it.
I hear what you are saying. I hope you come to some tailgates this year. We try to take care of our students. My kid commutes to UL so I don't have to pay for food and room and board so if I can buy another kid a meal whose struggling through the expense of college I will gladly do it.She means this.

[Will Lavender]

Just wanted to chip in on this thread considering it's pretty big news.

All I got to say about this situation is this:

GOOD.

As for the question about whether Tubby deserves any blame:

I don't know if he deserves any blame for Shagari flunking out. As others have said, the kid has to take ultimate responsibility. But Tubby (again, I'm not the first to say this) and the staff do deserve some blame for the fact that Shagari was playing basketball for the University of Kentucky.

The kid didn't have the game, the heart, or the passion to compete at this level.

That should have been figured out three years ago.

Once again, problems with scouting talent and character rear their ugly heads with this staff. :thumbdown

[Lost Highway]

Will Lavender wrote: Just wanted to chip in on this thread considering it's pretty big news.

All I got to say about this situation is this:

GOOD.

As for the question about whether Tubby deserves any blame:

I don't know if he deserves any blame for Shagari flunking out. As others have said, the kid has to take ultimate responsibility. But Tubby (again, I'm not the first to say this) and the staff do deserve some blame for the fact that Shagari was playing basketball for the University of Kentucky.

The kid didn't have the game, the heart, or the passion to compete at this level.

That should have been figured out three years ago.

Once again, problems with scouting talent and character rear their ugly heads with this staff. :thumbdown

:thumbup We are starting to agree more than disagree and that is good.

[SunBaller]

Will Lavender wrote: Just wanted to chip in on this thread considering it's pretty big news.

All I got to say about this situation is this:

GOOD.

As for the question about whether Tubby deserves any blame:

I don't know if he deserves any blame for Shagari flunking out. As others have said, the kid has to take ultimate responsibility. But Tubby (again, I'm not the first to say this) and the staff do deserve some blame for the fact that Shagari was playing basketball for the University of Kentucky.

The kid didn't have the game, the heart, or the passion to compete at this level.

That should have been figured out three years ago.

Once again, problems with scouting talent and character rear their ugly heads with this staff. :thumbdown

:thumbup:thumbup:thumbupWell said :thumbup:thumbup:thumbup. I agree that it is not necessarily Tubby's fault directly, butit should be one ofhisstaff's highest priority. Key words are "problems with scouting talent and character".

[wyldkatzky]

No body has yet to respond to my question on whether he could become eligible with summer classes or not.

I'm sorta hoping he can't, so we can have another scholarship, but only if we can fill it before the season, because he is gone next season anyway.

[Los Gatos]

wyldkatzky wrote: No body has yet to respond to my question on whether he could become eligible with summer classes or not.

I'm sorta hoping he can't, so we can have another scholarship, but only if we can fill it before the season, because he is gone next season anyway.

Sorry, don't know the answer to your question. The L/H article mentioned he might be able to regain his eligibility but wasn't specific.

I'm still not sure he won't be on scholarship next fall. If drops out of school we get a zero for two on the NCAA's academic progress calculation. If he is in school this fall, it's one for two.

One interesting idea, give his scholarship to a walk-on who is a virtually lock to make his grades. By doing this, we get a four for four on the academic progress calculation. You would have to make it VERY clear that the scholarship is for ONE year only. Next year it goes to a recruited athlete.

[poodoo]

Jeff Craddock wrote: cdrw wrote: My guess is that if he ever succeeds in anything, it will be when he DOESN'T have people pulling or pushing him really hard and he decides to motivate himself.

Wise words. Remember Scott Padgett? It took flunking out of school and going home to cool his heels in Louisville to get him motivated, Rock Oliver/Pitino notwithstanding. Padgett has described that experience as a painful wake-up call.

I have worked with problem adolescents--as well as adults--for over thirty years. The one indisputable truth I've learned is that while it is good to do as much as you can for someone who is trying to help himself, at some point you have to get out of the way and let the natural consequences of self-defeating behaviors run their course. That is most often where the real learning takes place.

Clearly Tubby did all he could. Suspensions and benchings were not enough to motivate the kid, so what was he to do? Take the tests for him? Write the papers?

I'm hoping that, like Padgett, Shag learns that only he can make things right. He's a bright kid who has the tools to succeed, by all reports. His career at UK is most likely finished, but he has a long way to go and there will be other opportunities.



Excellent post, Jeff Craddock.

[Littlemeyer]

:shock: I go away for one weekend, and come back to this kind of news??? I'm having a hard time figuring out how I should feel, to be completely honest. It seems obvious that Tubby and UK gave Shagari every opportunity to succeed...at some point in time he as to accept what's being given him. To say Tubby didn't do anything about his academic woes is ludicrous...remember how little playing time Shag got? Short of kicking the guy off the team, what else could he do? Seems to be a good motivator for a student-athlete. I, for one, would not enjoy all the time it takes a be a student-athlete if I were not allowed to participate in the games. Shame on Shagari, and good luck in the future.

I can't hold Tubby responsible for this one. Like somebody else earlier mentioned, Tubby can't write the papers for him, or take the tests for him. Part of college is learning responsibility; some cut it, some don't. It happens...

[sardiscat]

I cussed Tubby a lot last season over not playing Alleyne. Now thatI know why he wasn't playing, I guess I ought to apologize. I feel like the owner ofan antebellummansion that I toured in Natchez, Miss.,one of the few that is still owned by the family that built it. The guy told me that the Yankees occupied the house and, when they left, the family couldn't find the silver. They thought the Yankees had stolen it andsaid a lot of horrible things about them for a number of years. Thenl one day the grandkids were playing in the living room and knocked the back off of a gooseneck rocker, whereupon the silver came tumbling out. The guy said the family felt a little bad after that about some of the things they had said about the Yankees.

[ukwebfan]

Common sense prevails. Nice post and I echo your sentiments!

Littlemeyer wrote: :shock: I go away for one weekend, and come back to this kind of news??? I'm having a hard time figuring out how I should feel, to be completely honest. It seems obvious that Tubby and UK gave Shagari every opportunity to succeed...at some point in time he as to accept what's being given him. To say Tubby didn't do anything about his academic woes is ludicrous...remember how little playing time Shag got? Short of kicking the guy off the team, what else could he do? Seems to be a good motivator for a student-athlete. I, for one, would not enjoy all the time it takes a be a student-athlete if I were not allowed to participate in the games. Shame on Shagari, and good luck in the future.

I can't hold Tubby responsible for this one. Like somebody else earlier mentioned, Tubby can't write the papers for him, or take the tests for him. Part of college is learning responsibility; some cut it, some don't. It happens...