Reds make trade with Nationals! [Archive] - Wildcat Nation Forums

WildcatRick

07-13-2006, 04:11 PM

CINCINNATI -- The Cincinnati Reds today acquired from the Washington Nationals RHP Gary Majewski, LHP Bill Bray, SS Royce Clayton, IF Brendan Harris and RHP Daryl Thompson in exchange for OF Austin Kearns, SS Felipe Lopez and RHP Ryan Wagner.

Majewski, Clayton and Bray are expected to report to Cincinnati in time for tomorrow's 7:10 p.m. game against the Colorado Rockies. Corresponding roster moves will be announced when they arrive. Harris will report to Class AAA Louisville and Thompson to Sarasota in the Gulf Coast League.

To fill the roster spots of Kearns and Lopez for tonight's game, the Reds have recalled from Louisville OF Chris Denorfia and IF William Bergolla.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060713&content_id=1554997& vkey=pr_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

BOURBON TOWN CAT FAN

07-13-2006, 04:12 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2518314&POLL251=200000000000

CINCINNATI -- The Cincinnati Reds (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=cin) overhauled their rickety bullpen Thursday, getting Gary Majewski (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7099) and Bill Bray (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7716) in an eight-player deal that sent outfielder Austin Kearns (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6851) and shortstop Felipe Lopez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6415) to the Washington Nationals (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=was).

The Reds, hanging close in the NL Central race, also acquired shortstop Royce Clayton (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4800), infielder Brendan Harris (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7372) and pitcher Daryl Thompson from the last-place Nationals

Clayton most likely would replace Lopez, who made the All-Star game last year. In addition, the Reds gave up reliever Ryan Wagner (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index), a first-round pick in 2004 who has struggled the last two seasons.
Cincinnati's bullpen has dragged it down the last two months, giving up the most homers in the majors. The Reds acquired former All-Star reliever Eddie Guardado (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5051) from Seattle on July 6 and came out of the All-Star break at 45-44, trailing St. Louis by four games in the division.

MurphyLee

07-13-2006, 04:19 PM

You 2 put more work into it than my laziness would allow me to do today.:cool:

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 04:29 PM

This trade addresses specific needs. I think Krivsky's
thinking, "We're going to score runs with or without
Lopez or Kearns, so maybe if we shore up the pen
and the defense, we'll contend until September."

The Reds' bullpen and defense sucks, so they basically
overhaul the bullpen in this trade and get rid of one
of their worst defensive players. Lopez is a solid
hitter for a shortstop, but he's an absolutely terrible
defender.

They're dogging this over on Redszone, the Reds' message
board, but I don't know. They had to do SOMETHING. (Not that
I really trust the guys on Redszone: most all of them predicted
90 losses for the Reds this season, most all of them hated the Arroyo
deal, and of course they would hate this trade: it's a defensive-
minded deal, and stat guys (which most of them are) don't talk
defense because it's subjective.)

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 04:41 PM

Streaming audio right now on 700WLW.com.

Wayne Krivsky at the mic.

Quick soundbite: "I'm worried about right now. Royce
Clayton is our shortstop."

"I'm sure this will be a controversial trade. We did what
we needed to address."

surveyor

07-13-2006, 04:51 PM

I like the trade.

We get 2 decent, relatively young relief pitchers that are sorely needed and a veteran shortstop with Olmedo waiting in the wings in Louisville.

We've likely gotten the best play that Kearns had to offer.

Good to see a sensible trade for a change.:thumbup

RCS

07-13-2006, 04:59 PM

It seems like the Reds gave up a lot just to get some mediocure relief pitchers. I would understand if a closer was included, even a mediocure closer, but two middle of the road set up men? I agree they needed to do something, but the problem you have is you have traded a solid fielding RF who hit pretty well and you have no one to really replace him. Plus, what happens when/if Griffey gets hurt? I don't mind trading Lopez. You have to give up something to get something and the price for relief pitchers is always high this time of year, but on the surface this seems pretty steep. If it solidifies their pen I guess it is worth it since they are clearly costing them games right now.

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 05:03 PM

We've likely gotten the best play that Kearns had to offer.

This is what Krivsky's banking on, I think.

Because Kearns was the biggest chip in the stack.

Lopez is a decent player. Nothing more, nothing less. He can
hit, but he's really not even a shortstop. I'm not sure what
position he should play, but it ain't short.

But Kearns is another story.

If Kearns goes to Washington and finishes out the year
batting over .300, driving in 95+ and hitting almost 30 homeruns,
then at that point we can say the Reds got screwed. But
Kearns has a history of injuries, and as you say we might
have seen him at his best in the first part of this season. He
might really be a .270/90 RBI/25+ homerun guy. If so, then
those guys are a dime a dozen.

Pitching. It's all about pitching. We get to see a kid who is
by all accounts a superstar in the making in Chris Denorfia now,
and we get another guy in the bullpen. That makes three
decent pitchers in the pen, which is about what you would
expect from a good Major League team.

I don't think it's a spectacular trade, but it might be something
that helps the Reds in a specific and particular way.

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 05:05 PM

RCS wrote: It seems like the Reds gave up a lot
just to get some mediocure relief pitchers..
I don't think Majewski is mediocre. He's young, and he's
put up some pretty good numbers this year -- clearly
better than anything the Reds have. Plus, the guy's got about a
97 mile an hour fastball.

And I don't think the Reds need a closer. At least
not in their minds. They got Eddie Guardado just last week.

surveyor

07-13-2006, 05:13 PM

Will Lavender wrote: Pitching. It's all about pitching. We get to see a kid who is
by all accounts a superstar in the making in Chris Denorfia now,
and we get another guy in the bullpen. That makes three
decent pitchers in the pen, which is about what you would
expect from a good Major League team.
Denorfia's an outfielder brought up from the Bats not too long ago, correct?

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 05:29 PM

surveyor wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Pitching. It's all about pitching. We get to see a kid who is
by all accounts a superstar in the making in Chris Denorfia now,
and we get another guy in the bullpen. That makes three
decent pitchers in the pen, which is about what you would
expect from a good Major League team.
Denorfia's an outfielder brought up from the Bats not too long ago, correct?

He was actually called up today. He'll probably be the starting
right fielder tonight.

The guys on Redszone say he is as good as Austin Kearns
right now. Wayne Krivsky spoke of him in the press conference
as a guy who will help the team immediately. He'll probably
bat lead off.

The guys on R-Zone aren't thrilled the most with Royce Clayton.
However, one poster over there pointed out that on the Nationals'
board, they think THEY got jobbed because Lopez is a step down at short.
So go figure. :?

MurphyLee

07-13-2006, 05:39 PM

Will Lavender wrote: We've likely gotten the best play that Kearns had to offer.

This is what Krivsky's banking on, I think.

Because Kearns was the biggest chip in the stack.

Lopez is a decent player. Nothing more, nothing less. He can
hit, but he's really not even a shortstop. I'm not sure what
position he should play, but it ain't short.

But Kearns is another story.

If Kearns goes to Washington and finishes out the year
batting over .300, driving in 95+ and hitting almost 30 homeruns,
then at that point we can say the Reds got screwed. But
Kearns has a history of injuries, and as you say we might
have seen him at his best in the first part of this season. He
might really be a .270/90 RBI/25+ homerun guy. If so, then
those guys are a dime a dozen.

Pitching. It's all about pitching. We get to see a kid who is
by all accounts a superstar in the making in Chris Denorfia now,
and we get another guy in the bullpen. That makes three
decent pitchers in the pen, which is about what you would
expect from a good Major League team.

I don't think it's a spectacular trade, but it might be something
that helps the Reds in a specific and particular way.
I don't think you have to worry about Kearns hitting 30 anymore.Playing home games in that yard is going to kill his HR totals but he will probably have a lot of doubles.

WildcatRick

07-13-2006, 05:41 PM

Here is an article and stats on Denorfia........

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/060125pulse.html

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/Chris-Denorfia.shtml

Narron is high on Denorfia. This is one of those trades that I dont have a feel for right now, just have to see how it works out in the long run. I did like Lopez a little more than others seem to.

SouthBeachWildcat

07-13-2006, 05:46 PM

I have to disagree. I think this is a terrible trade. We are giving up a young talented 26 year-old shortstop who was just an all-star last year fora 36 year-oldvery overrated player. Lopez has a lot of pop in his bat and Clayton has none. Kearns has definitely not showed everything that he is capable of. He will be a consistant 30 homerun 100 rbi guy. If you are going to give up 2 guys of this quality you have to get a proven number one or number 2 starter. I know the Reds need a lot of help in the bullpen, but we are in the thick of the playoff hunt. You don't dump guys like this unless you get someone who can solidify the rotation. Terrible trade in my opinion, but I hope I am wrong.

surveyor

07-13-2006, 06:01 PM

Ray Olmedo in Louisville has the potential to surpass Lopez. He's hitting .310 or so down here. Plus, he's only 25. He should be able to move into the SS position after Clayton's gone.

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 06:08 PM

If you are going to give up 2 guys of this quality you
have to get a proven number one or number 2 starter.

First, that wasn't going to happen. Kearns and/or Lopez
wouldn't pull in a #1 starter. You're talking about guys who
are above average players at best. Lopez had a stellar year
last year, but again -- what position does he play? Shortstop?
He wouldn't start at short for 90% of teams in the major leagues.
Too many holes in his game there. Good players have to have
positions to fulfill their value, and Lopez doesn't have one. Kearns
has been falling off for the past month, and again -- he's got a
history of being hurt.

And also, I think it depends on how you value the bullpen and
defense. If you don't think the bullpen and defense are crucial,
then you probably hate this trade. I for one believe that the
bullpen is one of the more critical facets of a team. With how
many pitches these guys are fouling off, and with the pitch
counts creeping into the 90s by the 6th inning, you don't
see many starters, even the good ones, getting past the
7th inning. Because of that, a good bullpen is a MUST for a
contending team.

Anyway. One thing's for sure: the version of the Reds who took
the field before this trade wasn't going anywhere.

SouthBeachWildcat

07-13-2006, 06:31 PM

Will Lavender wrote: If you are going to give up 2 guys of this quality you
have to get a proven number one or number 2 starter.

First, that wasn't going to happen. Kearns and/or Lopez
wouldn't pull in a #1 starter. You're talking about guys who
are above average players at best. Lopez had a stellar year
last year, but again -- what position does he play? Shortstop?
He wouldn't start at short for 90% of teams in the major leagues.
Too many holes in his game there. Good players have to have
positions to fulfill their value, and Lopez doesn't have one. Kearns
has been falling off for the past month, and again -- he's got a
history of being hurt.

And also, I think it depends on how you value the bullpen and
defense. If you don't think the bullpen and defense are crucial,
then you probably hate this trade. I for one believe that the
bullpen is one of the more critical facets of a team. With how
many pitches these guys are fouling off, and with the pitch
counts creeping into the 90s by the 6th inning, you don't
see many starters, even the good ones, getting past the
7th inning. Because of that, a good bullpen is a MUST for a
contending team.

Anyway. One thing's for sure: the version of the Reds who took
the field before this trade wasn't going anywhere.

I guess we will agree to disagree. Lopez might make a few more errors than the everyday shortstop, but he also makes the great play too. He gives youpower and steals from the middle infield spot which isvery uncommon. I think he would start at short for most major league teams. As far as Kearns, yes he has had injury problems but why say he has showneverything he can do? He is 26 year's old with all the potential left in the world. With those 2 players I just think we could have gotten a 3rd proven starter togo with Arroyo and Harang which would have given the Reds a great shot at the Cards for the wild card. Instead, you give up run support, do not help the starting rotation, and get mostly players who aren't going to contribute this year. You are giving up on the playoffs when you are in contention. DOesnt make sense.

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 06:43 PM

You are giving up on the playoffs when you are in contention.
DOesnt make sense.

The Reds are only in contention because of their hot start. This team
wouldn't make the playoffs in a one-team division. The bullpen is
just too shaky. Look back: how many games have the Reds lost
because of their bullpen? Eight to ten? More? How many have they
lost because they couldn't score runs? Two or three? You can't win
in September if you're winning games 9-8.

So they're only in contention because they can score runs. Lopez
has had an inconsistent year at the plate and he's going to be
unaffordable after this season. And the common feeling, even
among most Reds fans, is that Chris Denorfia can produce
runs at the same rate as Kearns.

WildcatRick

07-13-2006, 07:07 PM

SouthBeachWildcat wrote: I have to disagree. I think this is a terrible trade. We are giving up a young talented 26 year-old shortstop who was just an all-star last year fora 36 year-oldvery overrated player. Lopez has a lot of pop in his bat and Clayton has none. Kearns has definitely not showed everything that he is capable of. He will be a consistant 30 homerun 100 rbi guy. If you are going to give up 2 guys of this quality you have to get a proven number one or number 2 starter. I know the Reds need a lot of help in the bullpen, but we are in the thick of the playoff hunt. You don't dump guys like this unless you get someone who can solidify the rotation. Terrible trade in my opinion, but I hope I am wrong.

Like I said, I liked Lopez. He is still young and has lots of pop in his bat. My knock on him is his lack of consistency, he average has been as high as .311(not including the .429 after 5 games)and as low as .244. He strikes out way too much for a 1 or 2 hitter. Last year was a great year for Felipe and I was hoping for more of that in the future.

As far as Kearns, I hate seeing him go because he's a Kentucky boy, but I dont think we'll miss him much in the OF. I DO NOT like Clayton at all, would much rather have Olmeda there or give Freel a shot. Nationals could have given us a fruit basket instead of Clayton and I'd been happy.;)

We'll see, I was not really happy when they dumped Willy Mo, but that worked out.

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 07:20 PM

I don't like Clayton either.

You go from a relatively power hitting shortstop to a non-hitting
shortstop.

The question, though, is whether Felipe's and Kearns's absence
is going to drop off runs significantly. If Denorfia can perform
like many say he can, and if the other guys can at least keep
their first half pace, then this team will score enough runs to win.

WildcatRick

07-13-2006, 07:49 PM

Will Lavender wrote: I don't like Clayton either.

The thing I will always remember about Clayton was him being the first batter Jim Morris(The Rookie)faced in the majors and struck out on 4 pitches.:tongue

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 08:20 PM

All I remember about Clayton is that horrid hairdo he used to have. Does he still have that? God I hope not. :shock:

MurphyLee

07-13-2006, 08:43 PM

The thing I remember most about Clayton is that he was brought into St.Louis to be the succesor to Ozzie Smith.He failed miserably and the fans resented him for not being OS.He never has done much since then either.

trublue4life

07-13-2006, 08:56 PM

I think the Reds did what they have refused to do in the past several years. i.e. make the kind of July move that shows they are serious about payoff contention. With their bullpen they were headed for a crash and burn in the 2nd half. With the three additions this week to their bullpen they have a chance to win games they would most likely lose in the late innings. They acquired three quality arms.Giving up Kearns will effect run production but the Reds can still score runs as long as Junior stays healthy. I also believe this will be good for Austin. I feel like the change of scenery, not to mention the chance to move up in the batting order, will energize him. This is one of those trades I really feel will be win-win and hats off to Krivsky for having the cahonas to pull the trigger.

SouthBeachWildcat

07-13-2006, 09:09 PM

Will Lavender wrote: You are giving up on the playoffs when you are in contention.
DOesnt make sense.

The Reds are only in contention because of their hot start. This team
wouldn't make the playoffs in a one-team division. The bullpen is
just too shaky. Look back: how many games have the Reds lost
because of their bullpen? Eight to ten? More? How many have they
lost because they couldn't score runs? Two or three? You can't win
in September if you're winning games 9-8.

So they're only in contention because they can score runs. Lopez
has had an inconsistent year at the plate and he's going to be
unaffordable after this season. And the common feeling, even
among most Reds fans, is that Chris Denorfia can produce
runs at the same rate as Kearns.

I definitely agree with you abou the bullpen. It was horendous and now it looks very promising. If we would have gotten another solid starter in place of one of these relievers I might would feel a lot better. But if Deorfia is as good as advertised then this could actually work out

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 09:11 PM

Denorfia has sure gotten off to an inauspicious start.

0-4 tonight.

Will Lavender

07-13-2006, 10:25 PM

Reds win in typical fashion tonight, 9-7.

Bullpen gave up 4 of the 7 runs.

Standridge and Yan probably gone tomorrow to make room for the new guys.

cumberlandredskin

07-14-2006, 07:27 AM

I'm kind of torn on this trade. I'm not sure I like the idea of giving up two everyday players for middle relief pitching. But the Reds are desparate for a bull pen. Lopez is good but not great. He makes a lot of mental mistakes in the field and running the bases. Kearns I think was hindered by injuries. He's been healthy this season and has put up good numbers. He may need a change of scenery to really blossom. IMO Clayton is stop gap solution for the rest of this season. Brandon Phillips will be the everyday SS next season. He came up through the Indians minor leagues as a SS. I think they didn't want to him to do a big position switch in the middle of the season so they took on Clayton.Majewski is a good set up man for the bullpen. He was a really good pickup. He's young and could develop into a closer.I don't know anything about Bray. His numbers look OK. He should have promise. I read he was the Expos number one pick in 2004.

I do like that this new mangament team of Krivsky and Castellini are willing to do something to try to win. So far every move Krivsky has made has been gold. We will see soon if this one was gold or fools gold.

BTW Redszone has crashed. This certainly touched a nerve with the folks over there.:D

jaspcat

07-14-2006, 08:36 AM

"As much as I like Austin and root for him as a Kentucky boy, he is great trade bait for a pitcher and I'd like this to happen. Kearns has been very streaky, but strikes out a lot and has pretty average numbers for a corner outfielder in the middle of a pretty potent lineup. With Chris Denorfia hitting .340 in Louisville, I wonder how long it'll take till he gets a look in the majors."

Quote from previous Reds thread that wasn't received very well. Obviously, we'll have to see how this plays out on the field, but I like the shake-up better than giving up guys on the Reds thin list of prospects for the half-dozen 38-year-old journeymen relievers that'll probably get moved before the 31st.

I was really surprised to see Lopez moved. Although shaky in the field, I like his plate discipline and ability to hit the long ball. What I have noticed from him over the past couple of months is a "too cool for school" attitude. He's been slumping and it didn't look like he was giving 100% all the time.

From what I've heard, Majewski could be the future closer, Bray is a lefty that can also get out righties, and the guys in the clubhouse (although disappointed to lose their good friend Kearns) are giddy about the deal.

Will Lavender

07-14-2006, 01:20 PM

ESPN Page 2 is bashing the trade (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=keri/060714) this morning.

I think the guy's credibility is thrown out when he writes, "The fairest way to evaluate a trade isn't years later -- it's right here, right now." Isn't it impossible to evaluate a trade the day it happens?

(Funny, someone on Redszone says about that article, "The only reason you don't disagree with that is if you're drinking Krivsky's Kool-Aid." Sounds like a Tubby argument from WCN. :shock:)

Doug Hardin

07-17-2006, 09:27 PM

If any of you are ESPN Insiders, you should read Buster Olney's blog from today (Monday). The first thing he talks about is this trade, and he thinks it was a great trade for the Reds, basically for the reasons already mentioned here about how they can't win the division with their current bullpen. He also talks about how there's basically no good middle relief pitching available, yet every team in contention is going to want to get some. He thinks the Reds did the right thing by grabbing some before all the dealing really gets going.

jaspcat

07-18-2006, 09:46 AM

"One other deal not involving the Reds also comes to mind. Following the 2003 season, the Twins dealt catcher A.J. Pierzynski to the Giants for reliever Joe Nathan and two prospects no one had heard of to make room for Joe Mauer behind the plate. Even with the Mauer aspect, public opinion wasn't overly positive about that trade either. Nathan, a setup man, was acquired to be a closer despite having never performed in that role before. Krivsky was Minnesota's assistant GM and its main NL scout at that time. Terry Ryan was the GM and pulled the trigger, but Krivsky's fingerprints were all over it. Nathan became a two-time All-Star closer. Boof Bonser made his big-league debut this year in the Twins' rotation.
And the other guy? It was lefty Francisco Liriano. Back then, he was in Class A ball coming off elbow surgery. Now he's an All-Star pitcher and a Rookie of the Year candidate.
Certainly, Krivsky's sterling reputation on deal-making is on the line after a trade like this. But was it the worst trade the Reds have made in their history? I'm not even sure it was the worst trade the Reds have made in the past year. (I still get Sean Casey trade related e-mails every week.)"

Quoted from Mark Sheldon's mailbag on cincinnatireds.com.

I tend to agree with DH about the market for relievers and Cincy's decision to go after it earlier than any other teams. Selling teams will now be asking for huge prices to bolster other contenders.

RCS

07-18-2006, 04:11 PM

The more I read about it the more I am OK with it. Kerns probably gets over rated by us since he is from Lexington. The reality is he is 26 and really has never had a great season. He will probably be a solid but unspectacular RF. That is not all that hard to replace. The Reds have lacked pitching for years and we always complain that they never do anything about it. Well now, they have. It took guts but the reality is this team has been in this exact position 3 years in a row and has finished way out of contention by the time it was all said and done. If this trade can solidify the bullpen it will be worth it. Kearns is not a game changer. He is a nice player but not irreplacible.

cumberlandredskin

07-20-2006, 09:39 AM

The Reds have won 5 of 6 since the trade. The bullpen pitched seven shutout innings last night that enabled them to comeback from a 4-0 deficit to win 7-4. Small sample size but so far, so good. And they are two games ahead in the wild card race.

Will Lavender

07-20-2006, 02:11 PM

cumberlandredskin wrote: The Reds have won 5 of 6 since the trade. The bullpen pitched seven shutout innings last night that enabled them to comeback from a 4-0 deficit to win 7-4. Small sample size but so far, so good. And they are two games ahead in the wild card race.

The bullpen was unbelievable last night.

I realize it's a small sample size, but I keep wondering if Krivsky's move didn't give some of those guys confidence. When you've basically got one or two pitchers down there who can get outs, that puts a lot of pressure on those guys. Now we've got three or four "good" bullpen arms. Guys like Coffey and Merckernow know that they don't have to go it alone.

I think the pen got to the point where it was a confidence thing. They were dogged so hard by the media and by the fans that those guys started to run into games just knowing they were going to get hit. And guess what? They got hit. Hard.

(I love Guardado's intensity BTW.We needed somebody down there whojust got fired up when he was mowingguys down.)

In other news: Chris Denorfia is struggling big-time. :shock:Again, it's a small sample size, but he's not really the player I envisioned him as. He's about as weak hitting in his first week of action as you can get. He's hit one, maybe two ballsout of the infield.

SouthBeachWildcat

07-20-2006, 03:53 PM

Will Lavender wrote: cumberlandredskin wrote: The Reds have won 5 of 6 since the trade. The bullpen pitched seven shutout innings last night that enabled them to comeback from a 4-0 deficit to win 7-4. Small sample size but so far, so good. And they are two games ahead in the wild card race.

The bullpen was unbelievable last night.

I realize it's a small sample size, but I keep wondering if Krivsky's move didn't give some of those guys confidence. When you've basically got one or two pitchers down there who can get outs, that puts a lot of pressure on those guys. Now we've got three or four "good" bullpen arms. Guys like Coffey and Merckernow know that they don't have to go it alone.

I think the pen got to the point where it was a confidence thing. They were dogged so hard by the media and by the fans that those guys started to run into games just knowing they were going to get hit. And guess what? They got hit. Hard.

(I love Guardado's intensity BTW.We needed somebody down there whojust got fired up when he was mowingguys down.)

In other news: Chris Denorfia is struggling big-time. :shock:Again, it's a small sample size, but he's not really the player I envisioned him as. He's about as weak hitting in his first week of action as you can get. He's hit one, maybe two ballsout of the infield.

I love Guardadoand his intensity as well. Also, for those of you that remember Noochie Varner of Harrison County, he is back with the Reds and tearing it up in Double A with Chatanooga. It would be nice if another Kentucky boy eventually made it up and took over Kearns outfield spot.

Will Lavender

07-20-2006, 04:13 PM

Majewski with another poor outing today. I believe he's given up a run in every appearance.

The Reds are 5-2 post-trade, but two key parts of the deal -- Majewski and Denorfia -- have struggled.

Reds lost two games in this series that they could've easily won.

I still think they're playing for the wild card in the last two months. The Cardinals are going to go on a tear at some point and put everybody else in the Central away.

Athens2005

07-21-2006, 10:32 AM

After seeng the Braves only give up a minor league catcher for Bob Wickman, you've gotta believe that the Reds got fleeced in this deal.

If it works for them this year, and they reach the play-offs, then they'll probably say it was worth it, though.

Will Lavender

07-21-2006, 12:07 PM

Athens2005 wrote: After seeng the Braves only give up a minor league catcher for Bob Wickman, you've gotta believe that the Reds got fleeced in this deal.

If it works for them this year, and they reach the play-offs, then they'll probably say it was worth it, though.

The Braves don't have the kind of bullpen issues that the Reds had. The Braves have a specific problem, the back-end of their pen, and they made an attempt to fix it.

The Reds had three or four spots in the bullpen to fix. If they didn't do that, they weren't going to the playoffs. And not only that, they would have had to trade prospects to fix the bullpen next year because they really don't have a wealth of talent in their minor league system who are ready to come up and pitch relief.

Also, the pitchers the Reds received were frankly better than Bob Wickman. Every Reds fan I know was terrified that the Reds were going to make a run at Wickman. Bray and Majewski and Thompson -- especially Bray -- have tremendous upside and they are young. This was a deal for this year, yes, but it had implications for the future as well.

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Atlanta won the wild card. They are flat-out dangerous all the way up and down their line-up, and really I have no idea how they played such mediocre baseball for the first three months of the season. If you listen to the Braves announcers, it was just bad luck. :?

boomdaddy

07-21-2006, 12:18 PM

I always like to see local kids do well in the pros, especially the Reds. But,Cincy needed help in the Pen. They actually made a trade in mid season to get to the playoffs! I am taking my kids to see them against the Braves next month. I hope it isa reversal of fortune, since their last series with the tribe. As for the young kid Denorfia, let's hope that he can snap out of his big league jitters and start knocking the cover off of the ball.

jaspcat

07-21-2006, 12:26 PM

Athens2005

07-23-2006, 03:09 PM

Will Lavender wrote: Athens2005 wrote: After seeng the Braves only give up a minor league catcher for Bob Wickman, you've gotta believe that the Reds got fleeced in this deal.

If it works for them this year, and they reach the play-offs, then they'll probably say it was worth it, though.

The Braves don't have the kind of bullpen issues that the Reds had. The Braves have a specific problem, the back-end of their pen, and they made an attempt to fix it.

The Reds had three or four spots in the bullpen to fix. If they didn't do that, they weren't going to the playoffs. And not only that, they would have had to trade prospects to fix the bullpen next year because they really don't have a wealth of talent in their minor league system who are ready to come up and pitch relief.

Also, the pitchers the Reds received were frankly better than Bob Wickman. Every Reds fan I know was terrified that the Reds were going to make a run at Wickman. Bray and Majewski and Thompson -- especially Bray -- have tremendous upside and they are young. This was a deal for this year, yes, but it had implications for the future as well.

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Atlanta won the wild card. They are flat-out dangerous all the way up and down their line-up, and really I have no idea how they played such mediocre baseball for the first three months of the season. If you listen to the Braves announcers, it was just bad luck. :?

The Braves actually have problems throughout their bullpen. The ERA's of the relievers alone, don't tell the whole story, as most of these guys are terrible about allowing inherited runners to score.

Most any guy they have that gives them some reason for excitement, ends up having a bad outing once he is placed in a specific role.

As far as the trades are concerned, closers are almost always worth more in a trade than middle relievers (who are typically journeyman, much more so than closers).
So, for the Braves to be able to grab an established closer for a minor-league catcher (a position at which they have a lot of depth), is much more impressive than the Reds grabbing two middle relievers for two every day players.

Even if closer was THE ONLY problem that the Braves had, a closer is almost always worth more than a middle reliever, with few exceptions.

Nonetheless, the Reds continue to play well since their two trades. If they make the play-offs this season, then it will certainly seem worth it to fans in a city that hasn't seen a play-off game since they lost to the Mets in 1999 (was that really a play-off game?).

Athens2005

07-23-2006, 03:11 PM

jaspcat wrote: Will Lavender wrote: Athens2005 wrote: After seeng the Braves only give up a minor league catcher for Bob Wickman, you've gotta believe that the Reds got fleeced in this deal.

If it works for them this year, and they reach the play-offs, then they'll probably say it was worth it, though.

The Braves don't have the kind of bullpen issues that the Reds had. The Braves have a specific problem, the back-end of their pen, and they made an attempt to fix it.

The Reds had three or four spots in the bullpen to fix. If they didn't do that, they weren't going to the playoffs. And not only that, they would have had to trade prospects to fix the bullpen next year because they really don't have a wealth of talent in their minor league system who are ready to come up and pitch relief.

Also, the pitchers the Reds received were frankly better than Bob Wickman. Every Reds fan I know was terrified that the Reds were going to make a run at Wickman. Bray and Majewski and Thompson -- especially Bray -- have tremendous upside and they are young. This was a deal for this year, yes, but it had implications for the future as well.

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Atlanta won the wild card. They are flat-out dangerous all the way up and down their line-up, and really I have no idea how they played such mediocre baseball for the first three months of the season. If you listen to the Braves announcers, it was just bad luck. :?

Dead on comments (up until all that junk about the dreaded Braves). The Wickman deal is better compared to the Guardado for a minor leaguer deal, and I'm reeal happy the Reds didn't shoot for Wickman.

I don't disagree about the Guardado/Wickman comparison (in terms of trade).
Nonetheless, middle relievers come from everywhere, and it seems strange that the Reds had to give up so much for these 2 guys.

Oh well. I hope they lose. :)