Rupp's first game

[Athens2005]

Came across some interesting information recently, that when Adolph Rupp coached his first game at UK, back in 1930, one of the players on the Georgetown College team that UK defeated was future Rupp Assistant and UK Athletic Director, Harry Lancaster.

This may be common knowledge, but if not, I thought it might interest a few people.

A link to a box score is attached.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Games/19301218GeorgetownCollege.html

[Wildcat Larry]

He also scored over half of Georgetown's points. :D

[JPS]

Not only that but the 67 points that UK scored was the most points that had been scored in a game by any previous UK team. (Maybe given the historical importance of the game, I should include the writeup from the game ?)

Lancaster played against UK three times. He was considered to be a very good player at Georgetown.

Jon

PS, below is a link to Lancaster's games against UK. The rest of the page lists other notable UK opponents. I always love to discover these types of connections. If anyone knows of any others, let me know.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/playersopposingnotable.html#Harry_LancasterGe

[Athens2005]

Jon,

The write-up would be appreciated.

Also, there is a "McKay" listed in Georgetown's box score. (He scored zero points).

My understanding is that McKay (I don't know his first name) considered playing football for UK, but he decided to go to Georgetown and play basketball instead.

[Wildcat Larry]

Here's an interesting article I found that references Harry Lancaster is strange way from December 19, 1953. This is from The Monessen Daily Independent in Monessen, PA.

Kentucky faced a much tougher rival in St. Louis, ranked No. 18 nationally, but came through in champicnsaip style for its first win over a Billiken team since the 1951 Sugar Bowl Tournament. Tne Wildcats opened up a 31-24 balftime lead and pulled away as Frank Ramsey set the scoring pace with 24 points and Cliff Hagan added 18. Bob Dubinicfc led St. Louis with 18.

The game was marred by a third-quarter fist fight between Kentucky's Assistant Coach Harry Lancaster and a fan, as a result of which the fan and several others were ejected.

:D

[JPS]

Wildcat Larry wrote: Here's an interesting article I found that references Harry Lancaster is strange way from December 19, 1953. This is from The Monessen Daily Independent in Monessen, PA.

Kentucky faced a much tougher rival in St. Louis, ranked No. 18 nationally, but came through in champicnsaip style for its first win over a Billiken team since the 1951 Sugar Bowl Tournament. Tne Wildcats opened up a 31-24 balftime lead and pulled away as Frank Ramsey set the scoring pace with 24 points and Cliff Hagan added 18. Bob Dubinicfc led St. Louis with 18.

The game was marred by a third-quarter fist fight between Kentucky's Assistant Coach Harry Lancaster and a fan, as a result of which the fan and several others were ejected.

:D


I don't remember the details, butI don't believe thatwas an ordinary fan. IIRC, Lancaster got in a fight with the son or some other relative of St. Louis coach Eddie Hickey. Apparently, this person was in charge of firing a pistol (or ringing a bell or something similar) to signify the game starting etc. The first time he did it right next to Lancaster's head. Lancaster warned him not to do it again.

The second time he did the same thing, and Lancaster decked him. (Lancaster was known as an enforcer, and was known to throw a few punches from time to time when necessary. Rupp, on the other hand, fought with his words.)

All this is from memory, I'm likely messing up many of the details. When I get a chance, I'll have to check back to some of the references to see if I can find it. (I'm sure it's mentioned in Lancaster's book at least.)

Jon

[HOMEYCAT]

My brother's neighbor was the late Pat Doyle, former UK player, who told the story of him and his boys going to see Harry Lancaster in the hospital years after they had all graduated. They could barely go into the room they were all stillso frightened of the man.They said Rupp was a piece of cake compared toLancaster.

[JPS]

OK, here's what it says in Lancaster's book, Adolph Rupp As I Knew Him pp. 54-55.


We were on our way. We went to Cincinnati to beat Xavier and came home to drub Wake Forest. Then we went on the road again to meet our old enemies in St. Louis. That's where the **** hit the fan.

Adolph absolutely couldn't stand the Billiken's coach, Ed Hickey. Hickey was a great coach and I supposed the reason Adolph would never even use Hickey's name when he talked about him was the fact that we had met Hickey's St. Louis team three times in the Sugar Bowl Tournament and he had beaten us all three times. Three wins by St. Louis by a TOTAL of four points. Adolph reminded our players as they took the floor it was time to get even, "with that little son of a bitch," as he always referred to Hickey. We won the game 71 to 59 but it was a game I'll never forget.

Coach Hickey's son was the official timer. In those days, the game was played in quarters. The timekeeper fired a blank cartridge to signal the end of the quarters, the half and the end of the game. I was seated on the end of the bench right next to young Hickey. I had no idea at the time who he was. When the first quarter ended, Hickey placed that revolver right against my right leg and fired. That wad that came out of the revolver hurt like hell. I thought it had been an accident and yelled, "Watch out! Don't do that." His reply, "Go to hell." I informed him that if it occurred again, I was going to knock his *** off. Sure enough, as the half ended, he shot me again. I knocked his *** off.

That brought on a free-for-all involving fans, coaches and even men of the cloth. Cap Gardner who was the mayor of Owensboro, Kentucky, tried to push his way through the mob to get to me and wound up in the St. Louis jail. When they finally got order restored, Adolph, Bernie Shively and I made our way to the dressing room under police escort. They wanted to take me to jail, but Shive persudaded the police to let me return to the bench at least for the second half. He agreed to sit directly behind me to make sure there was no more trouble. I was glad he was there. The game proceeded without further inciedent with a new timekeeper and a quieter assistant coach. After the game, Shive talked Coach Hickey and the police out of putting me in jail.


Here's some of what Lancaster said about the first game.



I have never believed that our fates are predetermined. Yet, as I look back on that night in December, forty-nine years ago, I still get an eerie feeling about it. I was to start my first game as a college basketball player. Adolph Frederick Rupp was to coach his first college team. On December 18, 1930, we were to see each other for the first time at Alumni Gym in Lexington, but it was the beginning of an association that was to continue through a major part of both our lives.

.....

In Alumni Gym that night Rupp was impeccably dressed and looked very confident as he brought his team on the floor to meet Georgetown. I was to learn later he had been very nervous in the dressing room, but once he got on the floor he appeared to be totally in charge. I suppose I got his attention when I scored the first field goal of the game. That was the only time we had the lead. Rupp's boys ran up and down the floor like no team I had ever seen and drubbed us 67 to 19 that night. Forest "Aggie' Sale, who was later to make All American, scored as many points as our entire team. Years later, Adolph was to tell me several times that Aggie might have been the best player he ever coached.

We opened the season against Kentucky my next two years at Georgetown and we lost both of those, too.

Even though I had played three times against Coach Rupp I had never met or spoken to the man. He didn't change much through the years, almost never speaking to a player on the opposing team. He was never very close with his own players. You didn't fraternize with Adolph Rupp.

[JPS]

:shrug:

I don't know what kind of filters you guys are using on this website, but suffice to say Harry Lancaster did not say 'poopie'. He said $hit. :blush:

Jon

[Wildcat Larry]

JPS wrote: :shrug:

I don't know what kind of filters you guys are using on this website, but suffice to say Harry Lancaster did not say 'poopie'. He said $hit. :blush:

Jon
:ggrin::ggrin::ggrin:

[JPS]

Athens2005 wrote:
Jon,

The write-up would be appreciated.

Also, there is a "McKay" listed in Georgetown's box score.Â* (He scored zero points).

My understanding is that McKay (I don't know his first name) considered playing football for UK, but he decided to go to Georgetown and play basketball instead.


Below is the writeup. Note that I am not updating the website because recently I upgraded my database and am working out some transition issues so it may be a while before I am up and running with that.

Also, going back through the information, it turns out that there was a small story about the Georgetown team preparing for the game. It mentions that Archie McKay is a probable starter. It states that McKay was from Bardstown and would play forward. It also says this was his first year of basketball. (I checked the other boxes and this was the only game he played against UK.)

Note, the story also mentions the other Georgetown forward is Don Cawthorne of Pineville, who it notes made the all-Kentucky team the previous year and was recognized as one of the best shooters in the state.

Wildcats Conquer Tigers, 67 to 19

The University of Kentucky Wildcats gave their new basketball coach, Adolph Rupp, a good send-off last night in the U.K. gymnasium by trimming the Georgetown College Tigers, 67 to 19.

Coach Rupp, reintroducing the fast-break system of basketball to Kentucky fans, used 17 of the 19 men on his squad in the opening encounter. And the way the boys piled up points indicated marksmanship that will serve them in good stead when they face the eleven Southern Conference quintets on their schedule this season.

Georgetown, an inexperienced team, was over-matched, and except for the first two minutes, when it managed to hold the lead twice, the Tigers were never close to Kentucky.

Georgetown used a man-to-man defense, but the speed with which Kentucky broke for the goal often left the Dillon men behind, and easy short shots under the basket resulted. Then again, if Kentucky had no opportunity for a fast break, it employed blocks with such deception that Georgetown floundered in its effort to break them up.

Georgetown drew first blood when Hatcher, rangy center, heaved a one-arm shot into the basket. Seconds later, Sale, who started the game at center for Kentucky, evened the count with a short shot, but Georgetown forged back into the lead on a successful free throw by Carter, guard.

Little McGinnis, who distinguished himself defensively and offensively, then made the first two-point throw of the 17-point total he rung up, to put Kentucky into the lead, and from then on, Georgetown was distanced. With Spicer, McGinnis, Yates and Sale pounding the net, Kentucky was on top, 38 to 9, at the half. The Wildcats had one run of scoring that extended from 11 points to 26 before Georgetown tallied again.

Breaking up and down the floor with more speed than has been shown by any Wildcat five in recent years, and exchanging the ball on passes that sizzled through the air, the Blue-clad youngsters gave promise of an offensive machine that will give any foe on their schedule this season a trying evening.

On the defense, however, Kentucky did not show up any too well. Several times, Georgetown broke into the clear under the basket, and only inaccuracy in shooting prevented the Tigers from rolling up a more impressive score.

Harry Lancaster, captain and guard for the visitors, and the only experienced man on the squad, was the key man in Georgetown's game. He excelled on defense and led his team's scoring with 10 points, six of which were made on loop shots from far out on the floor.

Little McGinnis, reveling in a system of basketball that permits him to use his speed to its best advantage, followed the ball like a hawk and several times made goals that only his vigilance made possible.

George Yates broke into the game as a substitute for Sale at center and he had the edge of his predecessor on defense. Sale, who topped all scorers with 19 points, had more scoring opportunities and he cashed in on them. Most of his points, however, came after he had reentered the game as a forward.

The game with Georgetown was scheduled as a warming-up encounter for Kentucky, and it served its purpose. The Wildcats, however, were not tested sufficiently to justify any optimistic prediction about their season.

I should note that Lancaster's recollection differs from the newspaper account. According to the newspaper, Hatcher scored the first basket for Georgetown. (All things being equal, although I've learned not to put a lot of stock into newspaper accounts of games, I have to think it's more credible than what a former player remembers about a game that happened many decades prior.)

Also, it's interesting that the story and the pre-game story both mention that Lancaster had previous experience. Apparently, he must have played some on the varsity when he was a freshman. He played two more years against UK after this game.

Jon

[The Old School JPS]

The following text from Lancaster's book IMO is further evidence that Rupp's conduct at the time of the 1966 NCAA championship game (among so many other things) refutes the notion that he was a racist:

"Even though I had played three times against Coach Rupp I had never met or spoken to the man. He didn't change much through the years, almost never speaking to a player on the opposing team. He was never very close with his own players. You didn't fraternize with Adolph Rupp."

IIRC accounts had it that Rupp went to the Texas Western locker room after the game to congratulate the players. If that was something he didn't often do, you'd think it would especially have not happened that day in particular if he disliked black people.

[Athens2005]

JPS,

I missed your post last week.

Thanks for posting the write-up!

[The Old School JPS]

Athens2005 wrote: Jon,

The write-up would be appreciated.

Also, there is a "McKay" listed in Georgetown's box score. (He scored zero points).

My understanding is that McKay (I don't know his first name) considered playing football for UK, but he decided to go to Georgetown and play basketball instead.


Arch McKay and Harry Lancaster were roommates at Georgetown, and very good friends. Arch was Lancaster's best man at his first wedding and at Lancaster's second wedding, at which Lancaster married McKay's cousin.

BTW, Harry Lancaster's high school basketball coach at Paris, Kentucky was Blanton Collier, who was later head football coach for UK and then the Cleveland Browns.

Lancaster himself coached in two sports, as he was UK's baseball coach for a while.He coached Cotton Nash in both sports.

[Stoney Fork]

Speaking of Lancaster the brawler; the '51 Sugar Bowl set to was not his first such encounter. During the 1949 season UK played Holy Cross on December 16, 1948. The Wildcats had eliminated the Crusaders in the NCAA Tournament the previous season and there was no love lost between the two teams. UK wonthe heated contest 51-48. The atmosphere was tense from the very beginning and tempers flared just before the end when Bob Cousy and Cliff Barker got into a tussle. The crowd was in an angry mood after the loss. Late in the game Wallace Jones fouled out and when he returned to the bench a fan began to heckle him. After ignoring him for several minutes Jones turned and the fan hit him in the face with a wadded up paper cup. Wah Wah grabbed the man with his left hand and punched him in the jaw with his right. Lancaster said Jones ended up standing there with the man's tie and shirt front in his left hand.

Then Lancaster got his turn. After the game ended another fan jumped from his seat and charged at Coach Rupp. Lancaster jumped in front of Rupp and knocked the guy to the floor. In the process the man kicked Lancaster in the mid-section so hard it left an imprint of his shoe on Lancaster's stomach.

May be there's a book or a web page to be had here....."Fighting Wildcats Through the Years"!

[CARDSRTOAST]

JPS wrote: Wildcat Larry wrote: Here's an interesting article I found that references Harry Lancaster is strange way from December 19, 1953. This is from The Monessen Daily Independent in Monessen, PA.

Kentucky faced a much tougher rival in St. Louis, ranked No. 18 nationally, but came through in champicnsaip style for its first win over a Billiken team since the 1951 Sugar Bowl Tournament. Tne Wildcats opened up a 31-24 balftime lead and pulled away as Frank Ramsey set the scoring pace with 24 points and Cliff Hagan added 18. Bob Dubinicfc led St. Louis with 18.

The game was marred by a third-quarter fist fight between Kentucky's Assistant Coach Harry Lancaster and a fan, as a result of which the fan and several others were ejected.

:D


I don't remember the details, butI don't believe thatwas an ordinary fan. IIRC, Lancaster got in a fight with the son or some other relative of St. Louis coach Eddie Hickey. Apparently, this person was in charge of firing a pistol (or ringing a bell or something similar) to signify the game starting etc. The first time he did it right next to Lancaster's head. Lancaster warned him not to do it again.

The second time he did the same thing, and Lancaster decked him. (Lancaster was known as an enforcer, and was known to throw a few punches from time to time when necessary. Rupp, on the other hand, fought with his words.)

All this is from memory, I'm likely messing up many of the details. When I get a chance, I'll have to check back to some of the references to see if I can find it. (I'm sure it's mentioned in Lancaster's book at least.)

Jon

He shot a blank pistol next to Harry's leg..The second time Harry decked him..:ggrin: