JonBenet's Killer Finally Arrested??

[Coldstream]

Sources: Arrest made in JonBenet Ramsey case
(http://www21.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg10pSmpXyl%5FruNP%5FCU%5FzFhRkOisPhuo8 %5FWI8qQIhBpy0pDv4lLePO29B7Oe5i7AzFz%5FTXqfZUf6vum 4%5FDUVPMGg3JW7aihcmZ2Ik7du3%2DDZQUw8Ufx%2DpZrrJNO WoEZCrsCOD37t%5F9dI%2D6bIZ6zrZFmF%5Fa6PIax8m107MTE rvQ2EQr9l3XIpMM7aZVsfzdP88ES7ZXDNuZ5SPlc%2D5AytsEl %5FvyMyMSLyu0lzdPp1uDLTR6p6nNfo0Or%2D38mI%5FpaeL1n d5bbUWRgfNhmgjPxMKi%2DaBiNg6DgcVekV11S72mbTvL0wYuq trd%5F%5FevKco%5FszOmT8XRASz6Mx0vNVMvX7j5D2X0Mz4x4 x6ZdItPcdev%5FSSoR7yPCzZnbwBfsbzoaYFpt0SWoWkqQyKOB 5jUrmxU5dIr3EOvt1Hf%5FExnjOoz5%5FbZKc9CvImWm0WHBWZ RzHXz7Nf%5FBurc%5FRgB8ylD%5FvEFD7NQhpUL%5F20LuzaL3 vXBt41R%5FLA0aevugSwO4aWoeE8xcqK9M%2DYFQZgpKVPOArf xOcygjBdXEl4GfwaCj7rvkU%2DI9cF8B%5F%5FRlHpt9wA9fzA oKkJ8%5FcHas4fMpQ3cYjLq7HyUKYiw&yargs=http://www.nextag.com)
(CNN) -- Authorities have arrested a possible suspect in the decade-old JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation, law enforcement sources told CNN on Wednesday.
An investigator with the Boulder County, Colorado, District Attorney's office is bringing the man from Bangkok, Thailand, CNN affiliate KUSA reported.



http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/16/ramsey.arrest/index.html

[TrueblueCATfan]

I just saw that on the news..............Finnaly after 10 years..........it is a shame Patsy could not hang on a little longer to see this happen..........

[Buddah]

well, allllllllllllllllllot of people owe both of the ramsey's a BIG apology for putting their character through the mud.. couldn't tell you the rush to judgement on this case.. hell, one detective wrote a book and told pasty ramsey that she should admit to killing her daughter on larry king live.. i remember it... shows how people rush to judgement SO MUCH. probably put that poor woman in her grave from the stress, even though her cancer came back.

[Littlemeyer]

I was just talking to my wife on the phone, and she mentioned this to me...very interesting development. It's not a done deal yet, but like Buddah said, its looking like some apologies could be forthcoming. Of course, what good will an apology do now...:?

[Buddah]

Littlemeyer wrote:
I was just talking to my wife on the phone, and she mentioned this to me...very interesting development.Â* It's not a done deal yet, but like Buddah said, its looking like some apologies could be forthcoming.Â* Of course, what good will an apology do now...:?


well, it is just the principle of the thing.. the boulder DA, Police Dept... just how people potrayed them, and you know what i mean.. i will throw the media in there as well.

[Littlemeyer]

Buddah wrote: Littlemeyer wrote:
I was just talking to my wife on the phone, and she mentioned this to me...very interesting development. It's not a done deal yet, but like Buddah said, its looking like some apologies could be forthcoming. Of course, what good will an apology do now...:?


well, it is just the principle of the thing.. the boulder DA, Police Dept... just how people potrayed them, and you know what i mean.. i will throw the media in there as well.
I know what you mean. I just have doubts that an apology is going to make Mr. Ramsey feel much better, after losing his daughter, and now his wife, and having his name drug through the mud the way it has.

[flacat22]

Buddah I was one of those people that think/thought the parents had something to do with her death, if not directly then indirectly by covering it up. My thoughts were based on quite of bit of physical evidence at the scene to include the fact that there was no forced entry into the home and the handwriting analyses that stated Patsy wrote the ransom note. While they may be exonorated with the arrest of this individual the suspicion they were under after their daughter's death was not unwarranted and without cause.

[Buddah]

flacat22 wrote:
Buddah I was one of those people that think/thought the parents had something to do with her death, if not directly then indirectly by covering it up.Â* My thoughts were based on quite of bit of physical evidence at the scene to include the fact that there was no forced entry into the home and the handwriting analyses that stated Patsy wrote the ransom note.Â* While they may be exonorated with the arrest of this individual the suspicion they were under after their daughter's death was not unwarranted and without cause.


i examined the evidence as well, and see that there were foot prints outside of the window that the killer could have used. also DNA under the child's finger nails and other places didn't match either the parents or the brother, also it depended on which hand writing expert you talked too, i have heard as many say she didn't write the note, as did... it is understandable that when a spouse or a child is killed, that the parents or spouse is considered a suspect, but in this case, many people in cluding those in the police department and some in the DA went above and beyond in labeling the parents guilty, without any proof. I can understand INITALLY, but Detective Thomas( who wrote the book) and others went far beyond that, even as the grand jury couldn't find enough evidence to bring it to trial.. people still put the cart before the horse.. like i said initally, it is understandable, but years and years after the fact is ridiclous...

the part about indirectly covering it up, just never made any sense to me on alot of different levels...if they covered it up, then they were probably involved.. of course there could be instances where people could do this.

[EricBigNally]

I was happy that this finally got resolved. The media needs to make a huge apology as well as they were always leading things to seem as if the parents were the murderers. It has to be of some relief that someone is fnally going to be charged with it.

[Ralph Cramden]

I live five blocks from the former Ramsey home here in Boulder. This town is wild with the return of 25,000+ CU students and will get even wilder with the Ramsey case. I hope this case finally sees closure but I'm still appalled at how the Boulder Police Dept botched this case from day one! :X

[flacat22]

Hey, um Ralph, you a big Doodlebop (avatar) fan there? Only mention it cause I recognize him and theyre my daughter's favorites...kinda funny.

[Buddah]

Ralph Cramden wrote:
I live five blocks from the former Ramsey home here in Boulder. This town is wild with the return of 25,000+ CU students and will get even wilder with the Ramsey case. I hope this case finally sees closure but I'm still appalled at how the Boulder Police Dept botched this case from day one! :X

thank you mel cat. i mean it was obivous on a myraid of things how the police, the DA, the media conducted themselves. I see your point fla cat, but evidence that survives on a thin dime and can be construed to fit a certain point of view, but not absoulte enough for the grand jury to return a indictment. I think alot of the rush is becaue pasty ramsey came off as very holier than thou and uppity, but still I don't think she deserves what she ultimatley was accused of. No mother does, in my opinion.

[Will Lavender]

Very bizarre that a suspect was found so soon after Mrs. Ramsey's death.

[Dr. H Lecter]

If true then I am one of many who owe the Ramsey's a big apology.

I based my opinion of their guilton a TVinterview I saw with the Ramsey's. It was very early on after the murder and the case was just about to make national headlines.

I was paying very little attention to the TV and did not even listen closely to what they were talking about. I only recall getting a "vibe" from the body language and facial expressions etc... from Patsy Ramsey who was doing all the talking.... that she was lying about whatever it was she was talking about.

I had no idea about what, but I just got a feeling from watching her that she was not telling the truth to the interviewer. It was only later that I got the details of what they were talking about. From that moment on I "knew" that Patsy Ramsey had something to do with the murder.

Its pretty early to buy everything we are hearing about this Karr guy and his involvement in the case...but if it pans out and he really did kill Jonbenet then Patsy, I owe you a big ole I'm sorry.

[Buddah]

Dr. H Lecter wrote:
If true then I am one of many who owe the Ramsey's a big apology.

I based my opinion of their guiltÂ*on a TVÂ*interview I saw with the Ramsey's.Â* It was very early on after the murder and the case was just about to make national headlines.Â*

I was paying very little attention to the TV and did not even listen closely to what they were talking about.Â* I only recall getting a "vibe" from the body language and facial expressions etc... from Patsy Ramsey who was doing all the talking.... that she was lying about whatever it was she was talking about.Â*

I had no idea about what, but I just got a feeling from watching her that she was not telling the truth to the interviewer.Â* It was only later that I got the details of what they were talking about.Â* From that moment on I "knew" that Patsy Ramsey had something to do with the murder.Â*

Its pretty early to buy everything we are hearing about this Karr guy and his involvement in the case...but if it pans out and he really did kill Jonbenet then Patsy, I owe you a big ole I'm sorry.


since your in such contrite Dr, apoligize to all democrats and independent populist, thanks ;) j/k

[phoenix]

Buddah wrote: Dr. H Lecter wrote:
If true then I am one of many who owe the Ramsey's a big apology.

I based my opinion of their guilton a TVinterview I saw with the Ramsey's. It was very early on after the murder and the case was just about to make national headlines.

I was paying very little attention to the TV and did not even listen closely to what they were talking about. I only recall getting a "vibe" from the body language and facial expressions etc... from Patsy Ramsey who was doing all the talking.... that she was lying about whatever it was she was talking about.

I had no idea about what, but I just got a feeling from watching her that she was not telling the truth to the interviewer. It was only later that I got the details of what they were talking about. From that moment on I "knew" that Patsy Ramsey had something to do with the murder.

Its pretty early to buy everything we are hearing about this Karr guy and his involvement in the case...but if it pans out and he really did kill Jonbenet then Patsy, I owe you a big ole I'm sorry.


since your in such contrite mood Dr, apoligize to all democrats and independent populist, thanks ;) j/k
Since the essence of his character is to be egotistical and wildly opinionated, I don't think you can expect the man to apologize for being who he is. Kind of takes the grease out of the enchilada imo.

I won't apologize because I really didn't form an opinion in the case, and I thought it one of the more bizzarre murders in the last 30 years.

However, Scott Peterson was and remains guilty as heck.

[Buddah]

phoenix wrote:
Buddah wrote: Dr. H Lecter wrote:
If true then I am one of many who owe the Ramsey's a big apology.

I based my opinion of their guiltÂ*on a TVÂ*interview I saw with the Ramsey's.Â* It was very early on after the murder and the case was just about to make national headlines.Â*

I was paying very little attention to the TV and did not even listen closely to what they were talking about.Â* I only recall getting a "vibe" from the body language and facial expressions etc... from Patsy Ramsey who was doing all the talking.... that she was lying about whatever it was she was talking about.Â*

I had no idea about what, but I just got a feeling from watching her that she was not telling the truth to the interviewer.Â* It was only later that I got the details of what they were talking about.Â* From that moment on I "knew" that Patsy Ramsey had something to do with the murder.Â*

Its pretty early to buy everything we are hearing about this Karr guy and his involvement in the case...but if it pans out and he really did kill Jonbenet then Patsy, I owe you a big ole I'm sorry.


since your in such contrite mood Dr, apoligize to all democrats and independent populist, thanks ;) j/k
Since the essence of his character is to be egotistical and wildly opinionated, I don't think you can expect the man to apologize for being who he is.Â* Kind of takes the grease out of the enchilada imo.

I won't apologize because I really didn't form an opinion in the case, and I thought it one of the more bizzarre murders in the last 30 years.Â*

However, Scott Peterson was and remains guilty as heck.



keep thinking that.. lmao... .. i read an interesting piece of the peterson case the other day.. take care of yourself phoniex.. dr, knows i was simply kidding.. seriously , i agree about the oddity of the ramsey killing.. i hope there can be some finality to the case in some way.

[boomdaddy]

Will Lavender wrote: Very bizarre that a suspect was found so soon after Mrs. Ramsey's death.

I have already heard people speculating that the mother must have given evidence near the time of her death or released something in her will to give the authorities the person whom they arrested. I guess we will will all stay tuned to see what the real story is.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Now the suspect who has confessed to killing says it was an accident

[surveyor]

Will Lavender wrote: Very bizarre that a suspect was found so soon after Mrs. Ramsey's death.


He was found before her death. The police had been onto this guy and finally notified the Ramsey's about a month prior to her death.

[Buddah]

TrueblueCATfan wrote:
Now the suspect who has confessed to killing says it was an accident

cliche excuse.. if he did it, then he accidently entered the home, tied a rope and used a thick paint brush to accidently snap her neck.. i think there was a sexual assualt as well. if this is true and he did it, then he deserves what is coming to him, either in the gas chamber or from his fellow inmates. if he is found guilty and actaully did it, then he will probably pefer the former and quickly.

[surveyor]

The autopsy report indicates no broken neck.

There was a skull fracture, however.

[Buddah]

well there was another thing that was mis reported.. i remember wayyyyyy back in 96, when they talked about the rope around her neck, with a paint brush so it could be twisted, they talked about a broken neck...

[TrueblueCATfan]

It was also just reported on the Today show that he claims he was in love with her...that is just plain sick............lock him up and throw away the key

[Buddah]

TrueblueCATfan wrote:
It was also just reported on the Today show that he claims he was in love with her...that is just plain sick............lock him up and throw away the key

this delves into some deep seeded psychological problems, those pagents and having those very young girls made up with all the make up and made to look like they are thirty years old attracts men such as this... it isn't a single case of something similar to this happening, sadly.

[BowlingGreenUKGrad]

Those pagents are just damn freaky. I have two little girls and they will never go ANYWHERE near one of those things.

[Littlemeyer]

BowlingGreenUKGrad wrote: Those pagents are just damn freaky. I have two little girls and they will never go ANYWHERE near one of those things.

I wish I could remember the name of this documentary that I saw several years back about these pageants. It was a rather disturbing show...the one thing that I can really recall is the father being ridiculed and mocked because he wanted to take the winnings and invest, or put it aside for education.

I agree. When we have children, I want NO part of these things.

[Coldstream]

Littlemeyer wrote: BowlingGreenUKGrad wrote: Those pagents are just damn freaky. I have two little girls and they will never go ANYWHERE near one of those things.

I wish I could remember the name of this documentary that I saw several years back about these pageants. It was a rather disturbing show...the one thing that I can really recall is the father being ridiculed and mocked because he wanted to take the winnings and invest, or put it aside for education.

I agree. When we have children, I want NO part of these things.



What freaks me out is the heavy makeup on 5-8 year old girls and dressed as if they are in their 20s.

[surveyor]

Buddah wrote: well there was another thing that was mis reported.. i remember wayyyyyy back in 96, when they talked about the rope around her neck, with a paint brush so it could be twisted, they talked about a broken neck...
There was extensive hemmorhaging and furrow at the ligature site around the neck, but the autopsy report (9 pages ) indicated no break.

[Buddah]

surveyor wrote:
Buddah wrote: well there was another thing that was mis reported.. i remember wayyyyyy back in 96, when they talked about the rope around her neck, with a paint brush so it could be twisted, they talked about a broken neck...
There was extensive hemmorhaging and furrow at the ligature site around the neck, but the autopsy report (9 pages ) indicated no break.


well i am just telling you what the media reported the day after the murder.. i remember commenting to my mother on the pain she must have endured and having her neck broke... who knows ? sad regardless..

[surveyor]

Certainly.

[Will Lavender]

Dr. H Lecter wrote: If true then I am one of many who owe the Ramsey's a big apology.

I based my opinion of their guilton a TVinterview I saw with the Ramsey's. It was very early on after the murder and the case was just about to make national headlines.

I was paying very little attention to the TV and did not even listen closely to what they were talking about. I only recall getting a "vibe" from the body language and facial expressions etc... from Patsy Ramsey who was doing all the talking.... that she was lying about whatever it was she was talking about.

I had no idea about what, but I just got a feeling from watching her that she was not telling the truth to the interviewer. It was only later that I got the details of what they were talking about. From that moment on I "knew" that Patsy Ramsey had something to do with the murder.

Its pretty early to buy everything we are hearing about this Karr guy and his involvement in the case...but if it pans out and he really did kill Jonbenet then Patsy, I owe you a big ole I'm sorry.

I did the same thing. Patsy Ramsey just "looked" like she was lying. I think it was because she fell into a type we've all seen. She came off as the rich mom who you see in department stores wailing away at their small children.

That's sexist and stereotypical. And so you see the power of the media to manipulate our thinking.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

I will also owe the Ramsey's an apology if this man is found to have murdered JonBenet...IMHO the Ramseys acted guilty from the start by hiring seperate lawyers and not cooperating with the police...speaking of which, boy did the Boulder police screw this up from the start...Inspector Clouseau could have done a better job...I think it will very interesting to see if this man is convicted.

[Coldstream]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: I will also owe the Ramsey's an apology if this man is found to have murdered JonBenet...IMHO the Ramseys acted guilty from the start by hiring seperate lawyers and not cooperating with the police...speaking of which, boy did the Boulder police screw this up from the start...Inspector Clouseau could have done a better job...I think it will very interesting to see if this man is convicted.
The Boulder Police Dept.'s first mistake was not involving the Denver Police or the FBI who have far more experience than they did in solving homicides. And this homicide was nothing they had seen before so having alot of experience in dealing with homicides would have gone a long way. But that's old news now and hopefully this thing can finally have some closure after 10 long years.

[boomdaddy]

I would like to see public hangings for child molestors.

As for the Ramseys: Who's to say that sick man would or wouldn't have still killed that girl, had she not been in the child beuty pageant circuit? I do know that if I had a13 year old daughter, I wouldn't want her dresseed up like an 18 year old, much less a 6 yr old. Those child beuty pagaents, with little girls dressed up like tarts, are nothing more than freak shows.

[Buddah]

I seen where he looked to have had a defacto press conference.. that was weird.. any defense attorney will try to get that confession per se, thrown out. since we are labeling, he looks like a sociopath.

[sardiscat]

Have you ever seen the phrase, "and hence" at the end of a sentence? As in, "something will happen under such and such circumstances, and hence." Patsy Ramsey ended a sentence that way in a Christman letter she mailed before JonBenet's death. That same phrase used that same way appeared in the ransom letter, a ransom letter that also demanded ransom in an amount exactly equal to what Mr. Ramsey's bonus was that year. A ransom letter thathandwriting experts said was in Patsy Ramsey's handwriting. I don't know what her role was in JonBenet's death or why she wrote the ransom letter, butshe is who wrote it. I worked on a seminar with an expert in analyzing statements (not by handwriting, but just based onthe actual wordsin the statement itself). He has worked with many police departments, including the Boulder police. He told me that the Boulder police believe Patsy caught Mr. Ramsey having sexual contact with JonBenet (not for the first time), took a swing at him with a heavy object that accidentallyhit and killed JonBenet, and everything else that took place was done trying to cover it up. Mr. Ramsey got overwhelmed with guilt about JonBenet's body lying cold and alone in the basement and went back and "discovered the body." This guy said the Boulder D.A. simply didn't want to take the Ramseys on in court. They have ten times the resources that O.J. had, and the Boulder police and D.A. screwed up so many times they would have been in for a very rough experience in a trial. There is something strange about this confession. (For instance, he said he drugged JonBenet, but the toxicology exam of the body concluded JonBenet had not been drugged). Has anybody heard whether his DNA matches that found in JonBenet's underwear?

[TrueblueCATfan]

Did anybody see this guy yet.................What a weirdo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lock him up and throw away the key.........

[Buddah]

sardiscat wrote:
Have you ever seen the phrase, "and hence" at the end of a sentence?Â* As in, "something will happen under such and such circumstances, and hence."Â* Patsy Ramsey ended a sentence that way in a Christman letter she mailed before JonBenet's death.Â* That same phrase used that same way appeared in the ransom letter, a ransom letter that also demanded ransom in an amount exactly equal to what Mr. Ramsey's bonus was that year.Â* A ransom letter thatÂ*handwriting experts said was in Patsy Ramsey's handwriting.Â* I don't know what her role was in JonBenet's death or why she wrote the ransom letter, butÂ*she is who wrote it.Â* I worked on a seminar with an expert in analyzing statements (not by handwriting, but just based onÂ*the actual wordsÂ*in the statement itself).Â* He has worked with many police departments, including the Boulder police.Â* He told me that the Boulder police believe Patsy caught Mr. Ramsey having sexual contact with JonBenet (not for the first time), took a swing at him with a heavy object that accidentallyÂ*hit and killed JonBenet, and everything else that took place was done trying to cover it up.Â* Mr. Ramsey got overwhelmed with guilt about JonBenet's body lying cold and alone in the basement and went back and "discovered the body."Â* This guy said the Boulder D.A. simply didn't want to take the Ramseys on in court.Â* They have ten times the resources that O.J. had, and the Boulder police and D.A. screwed up so many times they would have been in for a very rough experience in a trial.Â* There is something strange about this confession.Â* (For instance, he said he drugged JonBenet, but the toxicology exam of the body concluded JonBenet had not been drugged).Â* Has anybody heard whether his DNA matches that found in JonBenet's underwear?

Well, my cousin is a detective and he believed it was the father since the murder occured and still clings to that belief as late as yesterday. He described an almost exact sceniero . must believe alike in police circles. however, sardiscat, as people talk about in the psychic thread, it may just be one big ol concidence that that phrase appeared on a x mas card and yet was on the ransom note. i mean the man has admitted to the crime, though he could bring in other variables, such as others involvement.

[Dr. H Lecter]

THis may turn out very very oddly. I still don't know what to think. The guy looks like a crackpot with a bizarre fascination with the case....yet....there may be a connection to the Ramsey family.

He supposedly has a copy of Poly Klass' death certificate. He's a freak. But did he kill her? The DNA evidence will give us some answers.

Right now I am leaning toward a fake confession but would not be shocked if some connection to the Ramsey's is discovered....then what????

[sardiscat]

"i mean the man has admitted to the crime,"

People confess to crimes they did not commit all the time. There are a lot of sick people in this world. Heard Tom Petty on NPR a couple weeks ago. He was talking about his house, which an arsonist burned down while Petty and his family were asleep in it. They barely got out with their lives and the house and furnishings were a total loss. He interpreted the arsonist's act as having been avery seriousattempt to kill him. He said after news of the fire was reported in the press, he got hundreds of phone calls from strangers. What really shocked and amazed him, though, was the huge percentage of those calls that were from people confessing to having set the fire. The real perpetrator has never been caught. I want to hear there is a DNA match between this guy and what was found in JonBenet's underwear before I give his confession any credence whatsoever.

[Will Lavender]

sardiscat wrote: Have you ever seen the phrase, "and hence" at the end of a sentence? As in, "something will happen under such and such circumstances, and hence." Patsy Ramsey ended a sentence that way in a Christman letter she mailed before JonBenet's death. That same phrase used that same way appeared in the ransom letter, a ransom letter that also demanded ransom in an amount exactly equal to what Mr. Ramsey's bonus was that year. A ransom letter thathandwriting experts said was in Patsy Ramsey's handwriting. I don't know what her role was in JonBenet's death or why she wrote the ransom letter, butshe is who wrote it. I worked on a seminar with an expert in analyzing statements (not by handwriting, but just based onthe actual wordsin the statement itself). He has worked with many police departments, including the Boulder police. He told me that the Boulder police believe Patsy caught Mr. Ramsey having sexual contact with JonBenet (not for the first time), took a swing at him with a heavy object that accidentallyhit and killed JonBenet, and everything else that took place was done trying to cover it up. Mr. Ramsey got overwhelmed with guilt about JonBenet's body lying cold and alone in the basement and went back and "discovered the body." This guy said the Boulder D.A. simply didn't want to take the Ramseys on in court. They have ten times the resources that O.J. had, and the Boulder police and D.A. screwed up so many times they would have been in for a very rough experience in a trial. There is something strange about this confession. (For instance, he said he drugged JonBenet, but the toxicology exam of the body concluded JonBenet had not been drugged). Has anybody heard whether his DNA matches that found in JonBenet's underwear?
Here's a good discussion of the ransom note that discusses "and hence":

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

It wasn't used at the end of a sentence either time, but it's still strange.

[Buddah]

Will Lavender wrote:
sardiscat wrote: Have you ever seen the phrase, "and hence" at the end of a sentence?Â* As in, "something will happen under such and such circumstances, and hence."Â* Patsy Ramsey ended a sentence that way in a Christman letter she mailed before JonBenet's death.Â* That same phrase used that same way appeared in the ransom letter, a ransom letter that also demanded ransom in an amount exactly equal to what Mr. Ramsey's bonus was that year.Â* A ransom letter thatÂ*handwriting experts said was in Patsy Ramsey's handwriting.Â* I don't know what her role was in JonBenet's death or why she wrote the ransom letter, butÂ*she is who wrote it.Â* I worked on a seminar with an expert in analyzing statements (not by handwriting, but just based onÂ*the actual wordsÂ*in the statement itself).Â* He has worked with many police departments, including the Boulder police.Â* He told me that the Boulder police believe Patsy caught Mr. Ramsey having sexual contact with JonBenet (not for the first time), took a swing at him with a heavy object that accidentallyÂ*hit and killed JonBenet, and everything else that took place was done trying to cover it up.Â* Mr. Ramsey got overwhelmed with guilt about JonBenet's body lying cold and alone in the basement and went back and "discovered the body."Â* This guy said the Boulder D.A. simply didn't want to take the Ramseys on in court.Â* They have ten times the resources that O.J. had, and the Boulder police and D.A. screwed up so many times they would have been in for a very rough experience in a trial.Â* There is something strange about this confession.Â* (For instance, he said he drugged JonBenet, but the toxicology exam of the body concluded JonBenet had not been drugged).Â* Has anybody heard whether his DNA matches that found in JonBenet's underwear?
Here's a good discussion of the ransom note that discusses "and hence":

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

It wasn't used at the end of a sentence either time, but it's still strange.


you beat me to it, will.

sardiscat, i totally agree, people confess to crimes all the time they didn't do, women murder their children, and doctors poision paitents... just taken on face value though of course... though if his albi, his estranged ex wife, says he was with her.. it is getting more weird by the day, it would seem.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

While at happy hour today several of my buds who live in Boulder were saying how congested the traffic was because of all the media in town...IMHO this thing is far from over.

[bleedbluelady]

I have always been torn as to whether I thought the parent's were guilty or involved. I thought the Ramsey'shad some strange reactions. But it also seemed like the police went after them with laser focus, never considering any other answer.I have no idea how I would have reacted in that situation, with all the media focused on me. All I know for sure is...to have your child murdered and then be falsely accused of thecrimewould have to bethe most horrible thing that could everhappen to you. :cry:

[yitbos]

I have a friend that used to work for the LA County sheriff's office and he studied this case in the academy. He had some very interesting things to say about the case. !) the the boulder police suck...LA county offered expert to help and they were not they we're not needed. 2) according to the expert they (LA County) hired, the ransom note was actually written by Patsy Ramsey.

Don't know if its true or not, but thats what their experts say.

Either way...glad to see the guy who actually killed her is behind bars

[Coldstream]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: While at happy hour today several of my buds who live in Boulder were saying how congested the traffic was because of all the media in town...IMHO this thing is far from over.
I was thinking about the Boulderites today while watching the press conference. I am sure many folks don't mind the recent news but surely they will like to see closure finally brought to this horrible tragedy that happened in a great community. I know from people I met that were lifetime residents had grown tired of the media scrutiny placed on their police dept., the Ramsey's and the tragedy itself.

[popo]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this isn't over. Based on what I have read I'm still not convinced that this guy did it. I hope I am wrong but my gut says this whole thing doesn't pass the smell test. The caveat being that I realize the media is made up of a bunch of idiots who will write anything for ratings.

It's still too early to declare this guy guilty. I have always felt that Jon Benet's brother had some involvement. Again, hopefully I am wrong and the right person is in custody.I do have a feeling that warrants were obtained on Karr just to get him back to the States so DNA could be gathered. Based on what the media is reporting it seems as if Boulder PD had the probable cause to get warrants so they could get their hands on him. Doesn't mean the DA has to prosecute. If there is only a confession and no corroborating evidence then I don't see this going very far. Just my opinion.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Now they are saying on the news that his story does not add up..........that he could be obsessed with the murder story..he said he raped her and gave her drugs but there was no sign of drugs or rape............this guy sounds like a lunatic

[Ralph Cramden]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: While at happy hour today several of my buds who live in Boulder were saying how congested the traffic was because of all the media in town...IMHO this thing is far from over.
There have been copters flying overhead for the past 24 hours. :PTraffic congestion is due to both the Ramsey case and the influx of CU students. :tongueTry driving a bus thru Boulder with all this going on!

[CATHYnKY]

Ralph Cramden wrote: Terry L. Wildcat wrote: While at happy hour today several of my buds who live in Boulder were saying how congested the traffic was because of all the media in town...IMHO this thing is far from over.
There have been copters flying overhead for the past 24 hours. :PTraffic congestion is due to both the Ramsey case and the influx of CU students. :tongueTry driving a bus thru Boulder with all this going on!
Enjoy a nice glass or 2 of merlot this evening. I plan to.

[Mark Blueblood]

The opera ain't over until the fat lady sings. And it doesn't appear that they've even found her yet.

Far from over.

[Buddah]

CATHYnKY wrote:
Ralph Cramden wrote: Terry L. Wildcat wrote: While at happy hour today several of my buds who live in Boulder were saying how congested the traffic was because of all the media in town...IMHO this thing is far from over.
There have been copters flying overhead for the past 24 hours. :PÂ*Traffic congestion is due to both the Ramsey case and the influx of CU students. :tongueÂ*Try driving a bus thru Boulder with all this going on!
Enjoy a nice glass or 2 of merlot this evening. I plan to.

red cab is where it is at cathy ?:cool:

[ukbob]

That freak is definitely a scumbag of the worse kind, but I am still not convinced. This thing is not over by a long shot unless the inept police want to tie a pretty ribbon around it and end this fiasco. Just an opinion.

If he is proven guilty, then hang him high.

[Ralph Cramden]

The guy once married a 12 and 16 year old girl.....excuse me! He also claimed to "love JonBenet".......yeah right, he loved her to death. Its not certain that John Karr is the killer but whoever is needs to be caught before he kills another. :cry:

[Ralph Cramden]

The Boulder Daily Camera has dedicated several pages of the Sunday paper to the JonBenet story.....no big surprise. They are now debating whether it was a murder commited by one or more persons. People are putting flowers in front of the home here in Boulder. I believe there is a new owner but can you imagine living in that house? Just the thought of her being murdered in the house and all the hoopla surrounding this case would steer me to another purchase!

[flacat22]

FCFS82 wrote: Buddah wrote: well, allllllllllllllllllot of people owe both of the ramsey's a BIG apology for putting their character through the mud.. couldn't tell you the rush to judgement on this case.. hell, one detective wrote a book and told pasty ramsey that she should admit to killing her daughter on larry king live.. i remember it... shows how people rush to judgement SO MUCH. probably put that poor woman in her grave from the stress, even though her cancer came back.

No way this guy did this.

I agree 100%, until the DNA comes back as his I think he is a kook that was tired of running and he figured.."If im gonna go down, Il go down for something big." In his sick twisted mind he thinks he did it, so hang him, he's guilty of something (hence Taiwan, etc)

[Buddah]

FCFS82 wrote:
Buddah wrote: well, allllllllllllllllllot of people owe both of the ramsey's a BIG apology for putting their character through the mud.. couldn't tell you the rush to judgement on this case.. hell, one detective wrote a book and told pasty ramsey that she should admit to killing her daughter on larry king live.. i remember it... shows how people rush to judgement SO MUCH. probably put that poor woman in her grave from the stress, even though her cancer came back.

How about the rush to judgement to believe this confession? Now there are doubts (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18082006/140/doubts-jonbenet-confession.html ), everywhere (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2324307).

I am trying to get out the judgment business, but its hard. Maybe its an American thing, who knows. However, with the prolific crime shows that are on TV this struck me as weird that this guy was found halfway around the world. I know its 20/20 hindsight and easy to proclaim oneself right, but something didn't add up when I saw his TV appearance.

No way this guy did this.



no it isn't an american thing it is a human thing... europeans are bad for it, i have found out.. if this guy is innocent, he should still be tried on the child porn charges for which caused him to flee in the first place... if the dna came back and it is him, then hang him.. i just don't know.. it is obivous he has a distorted perception, that he is a sexual sadist, and that he is a huge pedophile, though if the details that he knew, are such that no one outside a small small circle knew them, then the circumstanial evidence would be great to move forward to a trial alala scott peterson. i don't know how the DA would rush to bring him back over unless they had something else to nail him with... if they were just scared of him hurting a child, they could have arrested on other outstanding charges that were out on him.. who knows ? regardless of the outcome the ramsey's deserve an apology if nothing else on people rushing to judgement and it could be a good lesson taught.

[Aike]

1. Patsy Ramsey used the phrase "and hence" in some writing nearly a year after the death of JonBenet, not before. Presumably she had read the ransom note thousands of times by then, perhaps incorporating this phrase into her own writing. Hardly damning, imo.

2. I was watching Dan Abrams the other night, and he had as a guest one of the detectives who spent years on the case. This detective said the report of John Ramsey's bonus being $118,000 was bogus.

3. Handwriting analysis could not exclude Patsy Ramsey, but it was far from the spot-on match that you make it out to be.

I won't pretend that I have any idea who is behind this murder. I didn't follow the case all that closely ten years ago, but I have reviewed the evidence in wake of this latest episode. What I have found is that much of what was initially reported is simply untrue. The Boulder police have shown extreme bias, and a number of independent sources have indicated that an intruder is a more likely candidate for this murder than the Ramseys. TIFWIW.


sardiscat wrote: Have you ever seen the phrase, "and hence" at the end of a sentence? As in, "something will happen under such and such circumstances, and hence." Patsy Ramsey ended a sentence that way in a Christman letter she mailed before JonBenet's death. That same phrase used that same way appeared in the ransom letter, a ransom letter that also demanded ransom in an amount exactly equal to what Mr. Ramsey's bonus was that year. A ransom letter thathandwriting experts said was in Patsy Ramsey's handwriting. I don't know what her role was in JonBenet's death or why she wrote the ransom letter, butshe is who wrote it. I worked on a seminar with an expert in analyzing statements (not by handwriting, but just based onthe actual wordsin the statement itself). He has worked with many police departments, including the Boulder police. He told me that the Boulder police believe Patsy caught Mr. Ramsey having sexual contact with JonBenet (not for the first time), took a swing at him with a heavy object that accidentallyhit and killed JonBenet, and everything else that took place was done trying to cover it up. Mr. Ramsey got overwhelmed with guilt about JonBenet's body lying cold and alone in the basement and went back and "discovered the body." This guy said the Boulder D.A. simply didn't want to take the Ramseys on in court. They have ten times the resources that O.J. had, and the Boulder police and D.A. screwed up so many times they would have been in for a very rough experience in a trial. There is something strange about this confession. (For instance, he said he drugged JonBenet, but the toxicology exam of the body concluded JonBenet had not been drugged). Has anybody heard whether his DNA matches that found in JonBenet's underwear?

[Ralph Cramden]

This post is totally unrelated to the "murder investigation" but I was thinking earlier why the parents pushed JonBenet to be a "beauty queen" at the age of 6. Sure, JonBenet by most standards would be considered "beautiful" but I guess I have a problem with children being subjected to beauty pageants at such a young age. In many of the recent pictures JonBenet has lipstick, mascara and styled hair in her photos. Call me old fashioned but I have a problem with children being subjected to this type of thing and it attracts the attention of people with bad motives.

[Buddah]

Ralph Cramden wrote:
This post is totally unrelated to the "murder investigation" but I was thinking earlier why the parents pushed JonBenet to be a "beauty queen" at the age of 6. Sure, JonBenet by most standards would be considered "beautiful" but I guess I have a problem with children being subjected to beauty pageants at such a young age. In many of the recent pictures JonBenet has lipstick, mascara and styled hair in her photos. Call me old fashioned but I have a problem with children being subjected to this type of thing and it attracts the attention of people with bad motives.

she was conventionally beauitful by western standards. i agree that pagents were just an oracle for pedophiles. i think parents mean well, but this is a slippery slope and can invite many unsavory characters. so being objectived in this manner and seeing what could and can happen, doesn't shock me, nor should it shock anyone.. same principle of a stripper being raped and murdered.

[Will Lavender]

Ralph Cramden wrote: This post is totally unrelated to the "murder investigation" but I was thinking earlier why the parents pushed JonBenet to be a "beauty queen" at the age of 6. Sure, JonBenet by most standards would be considered "beautiful" but I guess I have a problem with children being subjected to beauty pageants at such a young age. In many of the recent pictures JonBenet has lipstick, mascara and styled hair in her photos. Call me old fashioned but I have a problem with children being subjected to this type of thing and it attracts the attention of people with bad motives.
I agree. It baffles me why parents do this.

Littlemeyer mentioned a documentary about beauty pageants above. I've seen the movie he's talking about. The movie focuses more on the parents than the children, and what you find by the end of the movie is that the parents are sort of vicariously living their lives through the pageants. The main "characters" break down sobbing when their little girl loses a pageant while the little girl acts as if she could care less.

[Ralph Cramden]

Will Lavender wrote: Ralph Cramden wrote: This post is totally unrelated to the "murder investigation" but I was thinking earlier why the parents pushed JonBenet to be a "beauty queen" at the age of 6. Sure, JonBenet by most standards would be considered "beautiful" but I guess I have a problem with children being subjected to beauty pageants at such a young age. In many of the recent pictures JonBenet has lipstick, mascara and styled hair in her photos. Call me old fashioned but I have a problem with children being subjected to this type of thing and it attracts the attention of people with bad motives.
I agree. It baffles me why parents do this.

Littlemeyer mentioned a documentary about beauty pageants above. I've seen the movie he's talking about. The movie focuses more on the parents than the children, and what you find by the end of the movie is that the parents are sort of vicariously living their lives through the pageants. The main "characters" break down sobbing when their little girl loses a pageant while the little girl acts as if she could care less.

The same type of thing happens in dog shows. I love dogs and have been to many dog shows but when the dog doesn't win its the owners who exhibit the tears, not the dog. I just think it puts alot of pressure on the child or the animal to "perform" . I'm afraid that the parents are getting more pleasure out of this whole experience than the child or animal.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

Buddah wrote: Ralph Cramden wrote:
This post is totally unrelated to the "murder investigation" but I was thinking earlier why the parents pushed JonBenet to be a "beauty queen" at the age of 6. Sure, JonBenet by most standards would be considered "beautiful" but I guess I have a problem with children being subjected to beauty pageants at such a young age. In many of the recent pictures JonBenet has lipstick, mascara and styled hair in her photos. Call me old fashioned but I have a problem with children being subjected to this type of thing and it attracts the attention of people with bad motives.

she was conventionally beauitful by western standards. i agree that pagents were just an oracle for pedophiles. i think parents mean well, but this is a slippery slope and can invite many unsavory characters. so being objectived in this manner and seeing what could and can happen, doesn't shock me, nor should it shock anyone.. same principle of a stripper being raped and murdered.
I don't think old fashion applies to you Ralph...having grown up (?) in Newport in the good old days I was amazed at how sexual they had this little girl act...IMHO a form of child abuse

[Ralph Cramden]

I guess I could accept the idea of JonBenet wearing makeup if she was 15+ but 6 years old??? I fault her parents to a certain degree because they were robbing her of her childhood.:cry:

[PsychoCat]

JonBenet's slaying suspect sips champagne on flight to L.A.


ABOARD THAI AIRWAYS — John Mark Karr, the suspect in the death of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey, sipped champagne and ate fried king prawns in business class Sunday after being put aboard a flight to Los Angeles to face charges in the United States.

Karr was not handcuffed while being whisked through Don Muang International Airport in Bangkok. At the departure gate, he talked amiably with fellow passengers.

The 41-year-old teacher sat in a business-class window seat next to Mark Spray, an investigator with the Boulder County District Attorney's office. He was being escorted by immigration and customs officials but wasn't in federal or Boulder County custody on the flight.

One expert called the royal treatment a brilliant strategy.

If Karr says something incriminating that is challenged in court, the investigator who was sitting next to him simply says he was never in my custody, said Denver attorney Larry Pozner, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003213893_ramsey21.html

[sardiscat]

On his radio show last night, Drudge had a great theory on why this guy confessed. He was in trouble in Thailand for making inappropriate statements to students in the school where he taught. Needed to get out fast. Came up with a media hoax that got him flown first-class to the U.S. and put up in the Bel Air hotel, plus 15 minutes of fame. (Just what I would want my 15 minutes of fame to be for). Makes as much sense as anything I've heard about this guy.

[Buddah]

sardiscat wrote:
On his radio show last night, Drudge had a great theory on why this guy confessed.Â* He was in trouble in Thailand for making inappropriate statements to students in the school where he taught.Â* Needed to get out fast.Â* Came up with a media hoax that got him flown first-class to the U.S. and put up in the Bel Air hotel, plus 15 minutes of fame.Â* (Just what I would want my 15 minutes of fame to be for).Â* Makes as much sense as anything I've heard about this guy.Â*


under the premise you outline, this would have all had to happen in a very very short amount of time. he began his teaching job for only one or two days. to the best of my knowledge, police have been tracking and investigating this guy much much earlier than just this week or whenever he was arrested.

[Ralph Cramden]

Now Karr is on his way to Boulder.......this place is getting crazier every day. The old hoopla has restarted with people cruising by the old Ramsey home here on University Hill. There was a piece in the newspaper stating that the DNA evidence collected back in 1996 may have been screwed up.....sounds like the Boulder PD. :rolleyes:

[Terry L. Wildcat]

:thumbdownI wish the media would stay away from the house...enough is enough...the people on that street don't want a circus every day.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

The Boulder paper headlines today said the DA has as of now,no DNA link to the suspect...a popular theory here is the one about being in trouble in Thailand and getting the hell out of dodge.

[Ralph Cramden]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: The Boulder paper headlines today said the DA has as of now,no DNA link to the suspect...a popular theory here is the one about being in trouble in Thailand and getting the hell out of dodge.
I read the article while sitting at Lafayette PNR....:ggrin:They said that the fibers found on the duct tape on JonBenets mouth matched a blazer belonging to Patsy Ramsey. Also, I found it amusing that some dude now living in New Hampshire claims he saw John Karr at the downtown Boulder bus terminal. I seriously doubt this guys claims will hold up. I will speculate that this case goes on for another ten years without finding the killer!

[TrueblueCATfan]

CNN just reported that the DNA found on Jonbenet's body does not match Karr's

[surveyor]

Terry L. Wildcat wrote: The Boulder paper headlines today said the DA has as of now,no DNA link to the suspect...a popular theory here is the one about being in trouble in Thailand and getting the hell out of dodge.
That's been my thoughts from day one.:thumbup

[Spanish Moss]

[Spanish Moss]

[surveyor]

Hahaha.

No.

I've yet to buy any of those types of books. Not about to start now.:P

[flacat22]

Spanish Moss wrote: TrueblueCATfan wrote: CNN just reported that the DNA found on Jonbenet's body does not match Karr's

Well that is the end of that. No case here, time to start all over. Meanwhile, Karr needs to be committed to a mental hospital.





I was thinking hung...he's guilty of something, he aint hanging out in Thailand for the food...sicko.:X

[TrueblueCATfan]

just looking at this guy makes me want to puke............what a sicko

[Buddah]

i commented, i think on this very thread... that if they wanted him to be arrested for something to prevent him from harming a child, why not just arrest him on the outstanding warrants that was out on him... this whole thing looks embarassing to the city of boulder and the boulder DA.. u would think they would have had more than just a sexual sadist word.. but oh well.

[Spanish Moss]

[sardiscat]

Drudge mentioned on his radio show last week that a whole bunch of sickos had confessed to killing JonBenet before this guy did, but the D.A. rightly dismissed those confessions out of hand. The question is, why did the D.A. putthe credence in this guy's confession to spend the money to fly him first class back to the U.S. and put him up in the Bel Air Hotel? Seems like one phone call to the guy's ex could have saved the city of Bouldersome $$$$.

[boomdaddy]

I wonder if the laws are tougher in Thailand. The sad thing is that this sicko will eventually get released ( if he goes to jail over the child porn charges) and be a threat all over again.2 or 3 years later he will be living in a quiet nieghborhood, waiting for his chance to strike. He is not the JonBenet killer, per the DNA test, but it doesn't mean that he is not a sick person.

[Terry L. Wildcat]

surveyor wrote: Hahaha.

No.

I've yet to buy any of those types of books. Not about to start now.:P

:cool:Are you waiting for the movie? ;)