Purely Hypothetical [Archive] - Wildcat Nation Forums - Kentucky Wildcat Discussion and News

WildFan

08-23-2006, 10:44 AM

Everyone continues to speculate about Lucas and Patterson. The top reason cited for this is that Kentucky is the only common school they both list and that they have developed a friendship. In reality though Kentucky is not the only common school. True, we are the only one listed as "High Interest" for both, but when you include Medium for one andlow for the other, or high for one and medium for the other, ormedium for both,there are four common schools.

This is a long way from over.

Buddah

08-23-2006, 11:02 AM

Cincy110

08-23-2006, 12:07 PM

how many times do package deals truly go through... i can't recall hardly.. a good example of that would be may, walker and ellis... that was as sure thing as the sun rising.... patterson has a great friend on the gators roster who is recruiting him to florida.. so i don't buy the package deal mentality. rarely works.

What are you talking about with Mayo, Walker, and Ellis??? They aren't going to go tocollege together. And if you are insinuating that it was "talked" about as a sure thing, then it is just another example of people throwing out ideas and running with them. Ellis couldn't even finish High School. Walker is done playing HS ball now. Mayo doesn't know what he is going to do from one day to the next. So, how do you know that a "great friend on the gators roster" is recruiting Patterson to Florida right now? It is all speculation.

They are 18 year old kids. Let them live their lives and make the decision that is best for them and not for YOU and YOUR TEAM.

RCS

08-23-2006, 12:15 PM

Not sure it would work because of friendship, but more because Patterson thinks Lucas would help his game since he is a good PG. Actually good recruiting classes tend to snowball. Morris mentioned Rondo and Crawford as part of the reason he wanted to come here. Kids want to surround themselves with talent and make a run at a FF while they are at a certain school. The best way to do that in their mind is to get your friends to go to the same school as you.

I have no idea if this will work out or not, but it can't hurt and I would take either independant of each other so you might as well recruit them.

trublue4life

08-23-2006, 12:24 PM

Tre Pryor wrote: I was cutting grass and this (far-fetched?) idea crossed my mind so I thought I'd toss it out for general consumption.

What if Lucas and Patterson have already agreed upon coming to UK but want to hold off because as our frantic fans become more and more desparate, when they do verbal then we'll prize them all the more?

Ok, yeah... I need to quit breathing the lawnmower exhaust. :P

I must have the same lawn mower. I like your idea. After all, since no one knows, why not dream the best! Negative energy rquires so much more effort.:)

Buddah

08-23-2006, 01:27 PM

Cincy110 wrote: how many times do package deals truly go through... i can't recall hardly.. a good example of that would be may, walker and ellis... that was as sure thing as the sun rising.... patterson has a great friend on the gators roster who is recruiting him to florida.. so i don't buy the package deal mentality. rarely works.

What are you talking about with Mayo, Walker, and Ellis??? They aren't going to go tocollege together. And if you are insinuating that it was "talked" about as a sure thing, then it is just another example of people throwing out ideas and running with them. Ellis couldn't even finish High School. Walker is done playing HS ball now. Mayo doesn't know what he is going to do from one day to the next. So, how do you know that a "great friend on the gators roster" is recruiting Patterson to Florida right now? It is all speculation.

They are 18 year old kids. Let them live their lives and make the decision that is best for them and not for YOU and YOUR TEAM.

i am insinuating that situation is very much akin to patterson/ lucas situation.. friends saying take one or take us all, we're going tocollege together.it happens all the time in sports. before all the trouble with them, they talked about going to college together, articles were written etc.. same with alot more.. i am just saying package deals rarely work, as evident with mayo and his crew, that's all i was saying... oh and because patterson said the 6' 5 guard was recruiting him to florida can't recall his name though.....

gnvgator

08-23-2006, 01:31 PM

the FL PG recruit is Nick Calathes- #3 or 4 PG and no 15 player in the country IIRC.

Buddah

08-23-2006, 01:58 PM

gnvgator wrote: the FL PG recruit is Nick Calathes- #3 or 4 PG and no 15 player in the country IIRC.

i hope gator fans truly appericate the coach they have.... even though i am at a bitter rival, billy is probably one of the two or three best recruiters around in my opinion

gnvgator

08-23-2006, 02:22 PM

I agree Billy is pretty special as far as recruiting goes and I am keenly interested in how he continues to recruit as he starts winning more. GAry Williams messed up at MAryland by not gettting in the same kind of talent due to complacency Lets see how Billy continues to recruit as he keeps losing members of his staff who move onto better jobs!

This class is good if we get Parsons and Patterson/Hickson or both. I believe we will be able to get atleast one top 10 kid next year as we are in with a lot of them like Howard Thompkins, Al-Farouq Aminu, Drew Gordon, Devin Ebanks, Willie Warren, Scotty Hopson.

But all of this is naught if we dont continue to perform at a high level. If billy is smart he will continue to get talent to go to a final four once every 3 yrs and if he does that over the next 20 years, he will be one of the top few coaches in the history of the game. But its easier said than done, with all the NBA offers that might come his way among other basketball related stuff.

RCS

08-23-2006, 02:30 PM

The only thing that would stop him would be NBA rumors, IMO. He is too young to get complacent. Williams is getting up there, but Billy is still a young guy by coaching standards. Frankly, Williams was never a world class recruiter either. He is the only coach to win the NCAA without a McAA on the team.

The other thing that is going to be interesting to see is if he just lucked out or has he truely turned the corner. Before last year many were wondering if he had peaked as a coach, then a kid rated about 100 in the country turned into the worst matchup problem of the past decade. He recruited him and coached him, so I am in no way trying to take any credit away from Donovan, I just wonder what will happen. That doesn't hapen very often. His teams in the past have underacheved and he was starting to get a rep as not being able to win in the NCAA, and then he suddenly wins the whole thing. Did the light go on or was he lucky? It is always interesting to see how these type of things play out. I personally think he is maturing as a coach and that is most of the reason, but the question has to be asked since 3 out of his top 4 players were rated 75-100 andthose guys ussally are not the center piece of NC teams.

gnvgator

08-23-2006, 02:47 PM

The way I view last years success is like this. Noah was ranked 75 and a late bloomer. Billy keepe getting those kids all the time like Adam Allen, Chandler Parsons and GAry clark in this class. Similarly walter Hodge, Brandon Powell from previous years.

The key IMO is a a top PF is only as good as his PG- just like how a QB is only as good as his Offensive line. FInally we had that good true PG/game manager after the Brett Nelson/ROberson experiment who were SG's thrust into a PG role. Thats why Billy went after true PG's who were good shooters but not great shooters like Farmar. Farmar almost came to UF, but Howland changed his mind towards UCLA in the last minute and Billy went after Green who was a 120+ ranked recruit. Green has this good shot and is a steady PG with requisite athleticism for a college guard. Green realized that the success of the team is possible only by sharing the ball and he got his 15 pts a game. In other words, Billy stopped from pandering to induvidual goals and getting a true PG was a priority. Nick Calathes is in the same mould- a great shooter with a pass-first mentality with a court vision supposedly his strength.

RCS

08-23-2006, 03:11 PM

gnvgator wrote: The way I view last years success is like this. Noah was ranked 75 and a late bloomer. Billy keepe getting those kids all the time like Adam Allen, Chandler Parsons and GAry clark in this class. Similarly walter Hodge, Brandon Powell from previous years.

The key IMO is a a top PF is only as good as his PG- just like how a QB is only as good as his Offensive line. FInally we had that good true PG/game manager after the Brett Nelson/ROberson experiment who were SG's thrust into a PG role. Thats why Billy went after true PG's who were good shooters but not great shooters like Farmar. Farmar almost came to UF, but Howland changed his mind towards UCLA in the last minute and Billy went after Green who was a 120+ ranked recruit. Green has this good shot and is a steady PG with requisite athleticism for a college guard. Green realized that the success of the team is possible only by sharing the ball and he got his 15 pts a game. In other words, Billy stopped from pandering to induvidual goals and getting a true PG was a priority. Nick Calathes is in the same mould- a great shooter with a pass-first mentality with a court vision supposedly his strength.

All that is probably true, but PGs ranked 120+ ussually do not turn into All SEC by their SO year and 75th ranked PF don't turn into the best player in the country very often either and almost never by their SO year. Plain and simple, Billy hit the lottery with those two and to a lesser degree Horford. He very well may continue with that success, but as Tubby has shown, if you keep going to the well for guys rank 75-150 and expecting them to turn into great players, you eventually get burned.

Donovan has shown he can recruit with the big boys so it may all be a moot point anyway. If you are a UF fan you just have to hope this is not a two year aberation like with Williams at Maryland and you come back to what you were before, which is a nice team that ussually makes the NCAA but is rarely ever around after the first weekend. As I said above, I think he will continue to have and to build upon this success, but the question has to be asked.

gnvgator

08-23-2006, 04:28 PM

I definitely agree RCS. Thats why I said, Billy needs to keep winning consistently to maintiain his recruiting edge or he will have to start looking for diamonds in the rough. Plain fact is FL is not Duke, UNC, UK,UCLA, KU,IU etc and even those programs dont get good recruits if they dont win consistently. Billy needs to keep winning in the conference and the NCAA's to gain exposure and attract recruits. I agree that bigger tests are yet to follow when he tries to feed the monster that is success. I was big with my criticism of Billy before last year when we had those consistent early NCAA exits and I wondered if Billy had it in him to take us to the next level. But he answered all critics with a NC and I sure hope its just the beginning.

BTW, lmao, insiders are saying ESPN tried to arrange a game with UNC and UF and Roy refused. Billy even accepted to play in chapel hill this year and at home next year, but ROy wanted a game at Chapel hill and another at a neutral site between UNC and UF!!! Whats more, billy asked him to f*&k off. Guess 'ol roy boy still remembers his loaded KU team being takne to the woodshed by billy in 2002.

Caveman Catfan

08-23-2006, 06:41 PM

Maybe Lucas wants to be here to convince Patterson to go to Oklahoma.

Anything is possible. Let's hope we land them at Midnight Madness.

audacious1

08-24-2006, 08:59 AM

Caveman Catfan wrote: Maybe Lucas wants to be here to convince Patterson to go to Oklahoma.

Anything is possible. Let's hope we land them at Midnight Madness.

That's about as crazy a thought as I've seen.

Jai Lucas and Patrick Patterson together at UK would both good for them and good for the program. It's an obvious win-win with almost no downside. For the life of me, I can't see why they're waiting as long as they are.

Chunks06

08-24-2006, 09:19 AM

Tre Pryor wrote: Caveman Catfan wrote: Maybe Lucas wants to be here to convince Patterson to go to Oklahoma.

Anything is possible. Let's hope we land them at Midnight Madness.

That's about as crazy a thought as I've seen.

Jai Lucas and Patrick Patterson together at UK would both good for them and good for the program. It's an obvious win-win with almost no downside. For the life of me, I can't see why they're waiting as long as they are.

I think we are behind Florida right now. If we get Patterson to MM that would be great but I wouldnt put it past him to commit to Florida before that.

Buddah

08-24-2006, 11:15 AM

the original premise of this thread could be construde as a silent verbal to tubby by jai an patrick... and you know the word silent verbal is the kiss of death for us, it seems. :ggrin: JUST SAY NO TO SILENT VERBALS>

Stonewall

08-24-2006, 07:27 PM

If I were a top power forward coming out of high school I would love to be on the same team as Nick Calathes. That may be the deciding factor for Patrick Patterson.

IMO, the longer we go without a commitment from him it is less than likely he will come to UK. I believe he would have already committed if UK was the team.

But we still have hope so don't give up. Recruiting can be nerve wracking if you allow it to be.

Caveman Catfan

08-24-2006, 10:19 PM

Tre Pryor wrote: Caveman Catfan wrote: Maybe Lucas wants to be here to convince Patterson to go to Oklahoma.

Anything is possible. Let's hope we land them at Midnight Madness.

That's about as crazy a thought as I've seen.

Jai Lucas and Patrick Patterson together at UK would both good for them and good for the program. It's an obvious win-win with almost no downside. For the life of me, I can't see why they're waiting as long as they are.

The emphasis of the post was that anything is possible. All we have on these sites is rank speculation and nothing more.

audacious1

08-25-2006, 12:47 PM

Sure anything's possible, but we're making observations based on at least some kind of reason, right?

BTW, it's Oklahoma St. that Lucas is considering.

Also, keep in mind that Florida already has (4) verbals for 07. That doesn't include Hickson and others that Florida is still recruiting. Kentucky has 4-5 schollies available. Patterson should understand that he'd have more available PT at Kentucky vs. Florida... that's almost certain.

Caveman Catfan

08-25-2006, 01:21 PM

Tre Pryor wrote: Sure anything's possible, but we're making observations based on at least some kind of reason, right?

Are we?

Caveman Catfan

08-25-2006, 01:24 PM

Tre Pryor wrote: BTW, it's Oklahoma St. that Lucas is considering.

I think he has also been linked to OU, according to Scout.

audacious1

08-25-2006, 02:42 PM

Caveman Catfan wrote: Tre Pryor wrote: Sure anything's possible, but we're making observations based on at least some kind of reason, right?

Are we?

No need to be snide.

I think most reasonable people would consider it odd for Jai Lucas to try and convince Patrick Patterson to attend a school he's never shown an interest in. While it makes logical sense to think that when they chat, they'll be talking about the only school they both share interest in. As far as that goes, the more they chat the better for UK's chances.

Caveman Catfan

08-25-2006, 05:13 PM

Tre Pryor wrote: Caveman Catfan wrote: Tre Pryor wrote: Sure anything's possible, but we're making observations based on at least some kind of reason, right?

Are we?

No need to be snide.

I think most reasonable people would consider it odd for Jai Lucas to try and convince Patrick Patterson to attend a school he's never shown an interest in. While it makes logical sense to think that when they chat, they'll be talking about the only school they both share interest in. As far as that goes, the more they chat the better for UK's chances.

Not being snide. The question is legit. Are we really basingour perceptions and guestimations on real information and knowledge? Seems that we get it wrong an awful lot on this board, and every board. I am not sure that there is much real inside info. And, I am not sure today if "inside" info, unless it comes from the kid, is really very helpful.

And, there have been reports that Lucas is, in fact,interested in OU, regardless of your repeated protests to the contrary.

Caveman Catfan

08-25-2006, 05:23 PM

In fact, Lucas, Patterson, Anderson, and Rose are all players listing both UK and OU.

From an Oklahoma story:

Now, Jai Lucas, who looks a lot like his big brother but plays even more like he does, is considering the Sooners equally with the Cowboys.

"They're both still on the radar," said Jai Lucas, whose first name is pronounced "Jay." "Very much."

Granted, there are about six or eight other schools who are going hard after Lucas, too. LSU, Kentucky, Kansas, Texas A&M and Texas are interested. Ditto for Maryland, where father, John, was an All-American, and Indiana, where former Sooner coach Kelvin Sampson has set up shop.

The final decision might not come down to the Cowboys and Sooners.

Then again, it just might.

. . . He knows less about OU, but what he does know, he likes. Lucas became buddies earlier this summer with Blake Griffin, one of the nation's top power forwards who's already committed to the Sooners. They bonded at the Nike Skills Academy, a super selective camp at the shoe giant's headquarters in Oregon, and Lucas likes the idea of playing with Griffin.

Never showed an interest????? HHHhhhhhmmmmm . . .

This is what I mean. We might not be the experts we think we are.

Spanish Moss

08-25-2006, 05:30 PM

Thanks Caveman Catfan, we needed that. :thumbup

audacious1

08-26-2006, 10:03 AM

Please be accurate when you quote me. What I wrote was:

"BTW, it's Oklahoma St. that Lucas is considering."

Jai has narrowed his choices to three schools and it's Kentucky, Oklahoma St. and LSU.

So you can see it's Oklahoma St. and not Oklahoma, which makes sense given his family's background. No need to turn this into a big debate, IMO.

audacious1

08-26-2006, 10:05 AM

Spanish Moss wrote: Thanks Caveman Catfan, we needed that. :thumbup

We needed what? Incorrect information?

Caveman Catfan

08-26-2006, 10:45 AM

Tre Pryor wrote: Please be accurate when you quote me. What I wrote was:

"BTW, it's Oklahoma St. that Lucas is considering."

Jai has narrowed his choices to three schools and it's Kentucky, Oklahoma St. and LSU.

So you can see it's Oklahoma St. and not Oklahoma, which makes sense given his family's background. No need to turn this into a big debate, IMO.

Who quoted you?

Caveman Catfan

08-26-2006, 10:46 AM

Tre Pryor wrote: I think most reasonable people would consider it odd for Jai Lucas to try and convince Patrick Patterson to attend a school he's never shown an interest in.

Now, that is a quote.

And, you have completely missed my point.

Spanish Moss

08-26-2006, 11:05 AM

Tre Pryor wrote: Spanish Moss wrote: Thanks Caveman Catfan, we needed that. :thumbup

We needed what? Incorrect information?

We need a dose of reality in the Wildcat Nation. The reality is far from what you are putting out.

The reality is we probably have as much a shot as the Sooners and much less of a shot as the Cowboys. But we can do with or without Lucas, we need a Patterson like player. That is our need and Tubby has to deliver.

audacious1

08-26-2006, 11:28 AM

Ok, I'll admit I was wrong to say he never showed interest in Oklahoma. That's incorrect. But it's still valid that he's narrowed his field to (3) schools and Oklahoma isn't one of them. Thus the reason behind my statement that it doesn't make logical sense for Jai to talk Patterson into coming to Oklahoma if even he, himself doesn't consider Oklahoma any more.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Spanish Moss: "The reality is we probably have as much a shot as the Sooners and much less of a shot as the Cowboys."

Again, he's already ruled out the Sooners, while we're still in contention. Why must you insist on being so negative?

blueheretic

08-26-2006, 02:41 PM

Tre Pryor wrote: Ok, I'll admit I was wrong to say he never showed interest in Oklahoma. That's incorrect. But it's still valid that he's narrowed his field to (3) schools and Oklahoma isn't one of them. Thus the reason behind my statement that it doesn't make logical sense for Jai to talk Patterson into coming to Oklahoma if even he, himself doesn't consider Oklahoma any more.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Spanish Moss: "The reality is we probably have as much a shot as the Sooners and much less of a shot as the Cowboys."

Again, he's already ruled out the Sooners, while we're still in contention. Why must you insist on being so negative?

Why must you insist on labeling everyone who disagrees with your "agenda?"

audacious1

08-26-2006, 05:43 PM

blueheretic wrote: Tre Pryor wrote: Ok, I'll admit I was wrong to say he never showed interest in Oklahoma. That's incorrect. But it's still valid that he's narrowed his field to (3) schools and Oklahoma isn't one of them. Thus the reason behind my statement that it doesn't make logical sense for Jai to talk Patterson into coming to Oklahoma if even he, himself doesn't consider Oklahoma any more.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Spanish Moss: "The reality is we probably have as much a shot as the Sooners and much less of a shot as the Cowboys."

Again, he's already ruled out the Sooners, while we're still in contention. Why must you insist on being so negative?

Why must you insist on labeling everyone who disagrees with your "agenda?"

nm... I refuse to be baited by your posts.

DCWildcat

08-26-2006, 06:00 PM

Has Patterson ever showed OU any love? I've never heard anything about the two of them being at all connected.

audacious1

08-26-2006, 06:05 PM

Other than West Virginia, I think UK and maybe Wake Forest has been on him the longest.

DCWildcat

08-26-2006, 06:07 PM

Tre Pryor wrote: Other than West Virginia, I think UK and maybe Wake Forest has been on him the longest.
That's true. Florida came in a while after us, and Dook came in a long while after us. It might end up being a deciding factor in our favor.

WildFan

08-26-2006, 10:23 PM

When this post originated the common list for both Lucas and Patterson looked like this.

WildFan

08-26-2006, 10:32 PM

One day later an article came out saying Patterson had narrowed his list to six.

Aug 24th

"UK, Duke, Florida, Virginia, Wake Forest and West Virginia"

I also understand from an article that came out todaythat Lucas may have narrowed his list as well since the original post.

Aug 26th

"Lucas narrowed his choices to such schools as Oklahoma State, Maryland and Kentucky."

Both quotes are directly from the "Lexington Herald-Leader"

blueheretic

08-27-2006, 01:18 AM

Tre Pryor wrote: blueheretic wrote: Tre Pryor wrote: Ok, I'll admit I was wrong to say he never showed interest in Oklahoma. That's incorrect. But it's still valid that he's narrowed his field to (3) schools and Oklahoma isn't one of them. Thus the reason behind my statement that it doesn't make logical sense for Jai to talk Patterson into coming to Oklahoma if even he, himself doesn't consider Oklahoma any more.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Spanish Moss: "The reality is we probably have as much a shot as the Sooners and much less of a shot as the Cowboys."

Again, he's already ruled out the Sooners, while we're still in contention. Why must you insist on being so negative?

Why must you insist on labeling everyone who disagrees with your "agenda?"

nm... I refuse to be baited by your posts.

But you have no problem baiting others with your agenda driven posts???

audacious1

08-27-2006, 08:15 AM

WildFan wrote: One day later an article came out saying Patterson had narrowed his list to six.

Aug 24th

"UK, Duke, Florida, Virginia, Wake Forest and West Virginia"

I also understand from an article that came out todaythat Lucas may have narrowed his list as well since the original post.

Aug 26th

"Lucas narrowed his choices to such schools as Oklahoma State, Maryland and Kentucky."

Both quotes are directly from the "Lexington Herald-Leader"

That same information was available online days before the Herald-Leader published their stories, but there's no need to get picky about it. Some people just want to argue for no other reason than to argue. My point is clear for those who care to read it.