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#1
03-30-2008, 06:54 PM
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The UNC/Duke In-State Advantage
This is a sister thread to one below that laments the home state advantage that UNC and Duke seem to get in the NCAA Tournament. I didn't want this info to get lost at the end of that thread.
Here's a history of the opening round sites for the last 12 years and the furtherest either UNC or Duke got each year. 2008 - Raliegh - UNC - Final Four at least 2007 - Winston-Salem - UNC - Elite 8 2006 - Greensboro - No ACC team in Elite 8 2005 - Charlotte - UNC - NCAA Champion 2004 - Raleigh - Duke - Final Four 2003 - No NC site (Tampa & Boston) - No ACC team in Elite 8 2002 - No NC site 9 (Washington, DC & Greenville, SC) - No NC team in Elite 8 2001 - Greensboro - Duke - NCAA Champion 2000 - Winston-Salem - UNC - Final Four 1999 - Charlotte - Duke - Final Four 1998 - No NC site (Regional in Charlotte) - UNC - Final Four 1997 - Winston-Salem - UNC - Final Four Somewhat interesting, I would say. 
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#2
03-30-2008, 07:16 PM
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To add information, lets review the seedings for Carolina and Duke those years... this basically is being used to serve that if these teams achieve this much over a long period of time then it explains why the NCAA is taking a calculated risk/gamble of putting a first & second round in the Carolinas...
2008 - Carolina 1, Duke 2 2007 - Carolina 1, Duke 6 2006 - Duke 1, Carolina 3 2005 - Carolina 1, Duke 1 2004 - Duke 1, Carolina 6 2003 - Duke 1, Carolina NT (Wake Forest 2) 2002 - Duke 1, Carolina NT (Maryland 1) 2001 - Duke 1, Carolina 2 2000 - Duke 1, Carolina 8 (Maryland 3) 1999 - Duke 1, Carolina 3 1998 - Carolina 1, Duke 1 1997 - Carolina 1, Duke 2 So with this in mind, put it next to the original data and compare. Even when North Carolina didn't make the tournament in 2003, Wake Forest came through with getting a 2-seed and more important, either Duke or North Carolina has been a #1 seed since 1997. (In 1996, Carolina was a 6, Duke an 8.) Take out that year and you would keep going (through the 3-point era)... 1996 - Carolina 6, Duke 8 1995 - Carolina 2, Duke NT 1994 - Carolina 1, Duke 2 1993 - Carolina 1, Duke 3 1992 - Duke 1, Carolina 4 1991 - Carolina 1, Duke 2 1990 - Duke 3, Carolina 8 1989 - Carolina 2, Duke 2 1988 - Carolina 2, Duke 2 1987 - Carolina 1, Duke 5 So again, it behooves the NCAA to put a first & second round site (fair? certainly for debate) in the Carolinas when you can presume that if the pod system had been used since 1997 then you can promise a packed house because at least one N.C. team will be there. Heck, either Carolina or Duke have been at least a 1 or 2 seed in the three-point era except for 1990 and 1996, so for every year except two you could promise that Carolina or Duke or another ACC team would be there to fill the house. Last edited by FCFS82; 03-30-2008 at 07:24 PM.
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#3
03-30-2008, 07:27 PM
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And Bob already has it in brackets... great. Last edited by FCFS82; 03-30-2008 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Ugh. Next time I read your parentheses...
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#4
03-31-2008, 08:21 AM
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The seedings are one thing to talk about, but why the NCAA continues to place first round games and regionals year after year after year in North Carolina shows a bias towards the ACC, and UNC and Duke in particular.
There are plenty of arenas in the East the should be chosen on a more equal basis. _____________________________________________________________________________
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#5
03-31-2008, 08:33 AM
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All these towns are bigger (and have more tourist attractions for basketball off days) than places like Raleigh and Greensboro. I mean, there's no reason why Carolina and it's fans couldn't travel a relatively short distance to, say, Atlanta for the tournament. I can understand a city like Charlotte taking its turn with other cities of like size, but there's no reason to hold tournament games every single year in the state of North Carolina. _____________________________________________________________________________ I hope that I may always desire more than I can accomplish.
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#7
03-31-2008, 08:57 AM
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It's called a business of hosting the tournament and I tried to illustrate that for only TWO years outside of 21 (three point era: 1987-present) that the NCAA choosing its Carolina sites can bank on having either UNC or Duke. If I'm the NCAA I like making money. This is still a capitalist economy. Plus they do have FOUR arenas available for use. If this is a matter that means this much to Cat fans in Louisville then vote any taxes needed to build the new arena for the Cards. Of course, then you have to assume that Louisville wants to host the thing.
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#8
03-31-2008, 09:07 AM
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2008 - Charlotte 2007 - East Rutherford 2006 - Washington, DC 2005 - Syracuse, NY 2004 - East Rutherford 2003 - Albany, NY 2002 - Syracuse, NY 2001 - Philadelphia 2000 - Syracuse, NY 1999 - East Rutherford 1998 - Greensboro, NC 1997 - Syracuse, NY 1996 - Atlanta 1995 - East Rutherford 1994 - Miami, FL 1993 - East Rutherford 1992 - Philadelphia 1991 - East Rutherford 1990 - East Rutherford 1989 - East Rutherford 1988 - East Rutherford 1987 - East Rutherford Let's tone down the "year-after-year" line as the state of North Carolina has hosted the regional twice in the three-point era. Meanwhile NY and NYC has hosted it 13 times.
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#9
03-31-2008, 09:21 AM
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This issue is really more complicated than you're acknowledging. Orlando, for example, has a zillion hotel rooms and a nice arena. But is it larger than Greensboro Coliseum or the Bobcats Arena in Charlotte? Can the NCAA sell more tix in Orlando (smaller arena probably, more competition for local dollars, no true college basketball fanbase)? Greensboro has limited hotel capacity, but most of the paying fans don't have to stay overnight. The arena does hold over 20,000 for basketball I'm pretty sure.
Raleigh has hosted two NCAA regionals in the seven years I've lived here. The RBC Center is a fantastic new arena that holds over 17,000. Lots of suites, parking, hotels, etc. You have to buy NCAA tix a year in advance, so it's not hard to figure out where to hold events based on that reality. You hold tourney games in places where you'll sell tix. Who's going to buy tix for the regional finals in Orlando a year in advance? Atlanta, DC, Birmingham and Tampa all seem to be in the NCAA mix as well as the Carolinas in terms of Southeast/Mid Atantic locations. The only bias with the NCAA is money.
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#11
03-31-2008, 11:10 AM
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Atlanta is always in the Ga Dome but the Hawks play in Phillips Arena so that is not a consideration.
I don't have a major problem with it. These thigns happen all the time. Texas has an opening round and regional in the same year very often. NY has it all the time. It could very easily happen in Florida. It happens in Cali. It will never happen in KY because UK hosts one of the only 2 large arenas in the state but we could get a Cinci, Louisville combo one day. Or Nashville or Knoxville. All of those are very close. Does it really matter that it is in state or is it a matter of distance? I think Duke has just as many fans in NJ/NY as in NC so is it any different to play in Charlotte versus East Rutherford? If UK played in Nashville and then Atlanta both would be overflowing with UK fans and would be very much like home games for them. Neither are in the state of KY though. The year Syracuse won they did not leave the state of NY until the finals. When Mich ST won they played all their games in Mich if I recall. It isn't as rare as people think because the NCAA tries to put top ranked teams close to home.
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#12
03-31-2008, 11:49 AM
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If you really believe that to be true, explain why the last time UK was the No. 1 overall seed they sent us all the way to Minneapolis? In fact, explain why UK seems to always get sent to the furthest possible site from Lexington? This year was no different; they LITERALLY couldn't have sent them any further than they did! So much for the "Pod" theory...  And REGARDLESS of where UNC plays (especially this season), until -- or unless -- they run up against an officiating crew with the testicular fortitude to call fouls on Hansbrough, they look unbeatable. Last edited by Buck_Naked; 03-31-2008 at 11:51 AM.
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#13
03-31-2008, 12:14 PM
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The regionals that year were: Minny, San Antonio, Anaheim and Albany, NY. Where exactly should the NCAA have sent our #1 seeded Cats? Why didn't they scramble to put our region in Hopkinsville or Maysville for crying out loud? Come on folks, the conspiracy theories need to end soon.
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#14
03-31-2008, 12:29 PM
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Here's a look at our Regional Locations from the past key tourneys:
1978 Dayton 1983 Knoxville 1984 Lexington (not sure if UK played at home through the Elite Eight) 1992 NJ 1993 NJ 1994 Knoxville 1995 Birmingham 1996 Minny 1997 San Jose, CA 1998 Tampa 2003 Minny 2004 St. Louis 2005 Austin Truth is, when you have a really good team it doesn't matter where you play. I think we did OK in 1997 playing in California. Or in '96 when we were shoved waaaay up to Minneapolis. Heaven forbid the advantage Michigan State had over us in 2005 when we played in Austin, TX. This is absurd, folks. Does anyone really think UNC beat UofL because the game was in Charlotte?
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#15
03-31-2008, 12:33 PM
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#16
03-31-2008, 12:48 PM
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New York happens a lot, when you throw in East Rutherford as New York - because I mean, come on, its right across the river from the city. Usually it has involved East Rutherford being the Regional with either Syracuse or Buffalo being the First & Second Rounds. (2007, 2004, 2000, 1995, 1993, 1991, and 1987.) Regional champs? Georgetown, Oklahoma State, Florida, Oklahoma State, North Carolina, North Carolina, and Syracuse. Six times California has had a F&S and a Regional. (2007, 2006, 2002, 2001, 1998, 1990). The six regional champs? UCLA, UCLA, Oklahoma, Maryland, Utah, and UNLV. Syracuse started in Boston in 2003 and then went to Albany. Michigan State played their first round Cleveland then in Auburn Hills.
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#17
03-31-2008, 12:55 PM
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The Pod placement system only came into play for the 2002 tournament. In 1996 it was a completely different system and Lexington was hosting a regional which meant we would have been displaced under any system. Also because of the alignment two of the F&S sites were not available for the Cats. That year had the pod system existed the Cats would have started in Indianapolis instead of Dallas. Remember also that the system is only supposed to work for the 1-4 seeds. So the fact that UK as an 11-seed got shipped to Anaheim is not relevant.
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#18
03-31-2008, 01:41 PM
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#20
03-31-2008, 07:46 PM
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I dont have a problem with this at all.... maybe I am the only one on this board... .but people, keep in mind.... the selection committee says that it protects 1-4 in the first and second rounds, hince the pod system.
Now, once the new arena in louisville is built, and it is a tourny sight.... and we are a 1 or 2.... and werent placed in the region, then I would have a problem. But, until that happens i dont have a problem with a 1 seed or 2 seed getting to play close to home. they earned it. _____________________________________________________________________________ "When I die, they might as well bury me at the finish line at Churchill Downs so they can run over me one more time." -Rick Majerus on how the Utes' season keeps ending with a loss to Kentucky
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